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Old 02-25-2010, 02:05 AM   #5071
richsadams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlib View Post
Except when someone has a laptop and then wonders why why a DOS boot disk like the one for disabling Intellipark aren't seeing drives that are connected to a USB-to-SATA adapter that were perfectly recognized by WinMFS. That is a way more complicated issue that upgrading your TiVo step by step with WinMFS. The vast majority of computer users will draw a blank if you mention DOS.
Soooo...what is this "DOS" that you speak of?
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Old 02-25-2010, 02:09 AM   #5072
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Originally Posted by daverx7 View Post
I unplugged the drive from the TivoHD and did the process (three thumbs down and enter) to disassociate the external drive and is taking a very long time. I'll let it go overnight before I unplug and replug it.

Wish me luck.

-Dave
Sorry to hear about your loss. These things happen I guess. It's not encouraging to hear that the Fantom drive didn't last much or any longer than the 500GB WD My DVR Expanders. In your case it's obvious that it's actually the hard drive that went south though.

IIRC the "housecleaning" can take a while when an eSATA drive is disconnected, particularly a 1TB.

Thanks for the valuable feedback. Hopefully yours will be an isolated case. Best of luck!
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Old 02-25-2010, 05:40 AM   #5073
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Big Grin

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Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
Soooo...what is this "DOS" that you speak of?
*Utters arcane incantations*

PUFF OF SMOKE

C:\>

*small children run and hide*

PUFF OF SMOKE

*Laverne & Shirley reruns fill your Tivo*

PUFF OF SMOKE

*random forum poster turns into a Rubik's Cube*

Ok I'll stop
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:31 AM   #5074
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Endless Restart - Help!

Hi All,

I just completed the procedure that was listed in this forum to Marry my Upgraded 750GB Tivo Drive with the Tivo Verified 1 TB DVR Expander. I followed all instructions carefully and after reconnecting my Tivo - everything seemed to be working fine. All my programs are still there. The Tivo recognizes the external drive now. All my settings look correct. I try to manually connect to the tivo service - no luck because as its preparing it re-boots. I let it reboot - and its normal for a few minutes and without fail - the Tivo restarts and powerups again. And this keeps happening. Is there a solution to this problem?

I am sorry if this situation was answered - but I can't seem to find an answer to help me solve this issue.

I would appreciate any advice you can offer to help me resolve this problem.

Just some facts - I have a Seagate 750 GB HD inside my TIVO Series 3 HD DVR (the older model with the display and time on it) and I did the MFS Add procedure to marry my new Western Digital Tivo Verified 1 TB DVR Expander.

Thanks,
Michael

Last edited by MrMike1876 : 02-25-2010 at 08:50 AM.
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:41 AM   #5075
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Originally Posted by jlib View Post
Except when someone has a laptop and then wonders why why a DOS boot disk like the one for disabling Intellipark aren't seeing drives that are connected to a USB-to-SATA adapter that were perfectly recognized by WinMFS. That is a way more complicated issue that upgrading your TiVo step by step with WinMFS. The vast majority of computer users will draw a blank if you mention DOS.
What would be even more excellent is if WinMFS had the capability to add the disabler as well.

But, all I'm saying, is that I think the WD drives should be a part of the acceptable drive list with all of the caveats, instead of in another paragraph where it might get skipped over.

Just my opinion.
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Old 02-25-2010, 11:42 AM   #5076
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Ok I'll stop
Don't stop now...it was just getting good!
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Old 02-25-2010, 11:59 AM   #5077
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Originally Posted by MrMike1876 View Post
I just completed the procedure that was listed in this forum to Marry my Upgraded 750GB Tivo Drive with the Tivo Verified 1 TB DVR Expander. <snip>
Hi Michael. Sorry to hear about that. If TiVo is recognizing the drive (estimated recording hours are correct, etc.) it sounds like you did everything right. Did you attempt some recordings? How did that go?

It's possible that there's something wrong with your new drive...or that something just didn't "take" when you married it. (Perhaps a cubic zirconium diamond was discovered?) In any case, you'll probably need to start over again. I would try divorcing it and see if things return to normal. All of your original recordings should stay intact...but you'd lose any since connecting the drive. Be sure to follow the proper divorce procedure:

http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/get..._capacity.html

If TiVo behaves normally after the divorce I'd try to simply connect it again and see what happens. If the issue is still present I'd try the marriage process again. If it's still present after that I'd probably contact WD about a replacement. You can process the exchange on your own by going to the Western Digital Product Replacement site OR you can call Western Digital Customer Support at 1-800-ASK-WDC (275-4932) to have an agent process the exchange.

Curious...I guess it's good that you did, but what compelled you to force a connection?
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Old 02-25-2010, 04:11 PM   #5078
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Samsung HD154UI -- problems with low power consumption feature, maybe?

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Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
That's an interesting theory. I never thought of that. Although I don't think it's a buffer problem it may have something to do with how it is powered down (and back up). Since it's a "green" drive some of the same technology might be in place as Western Digital is employing in their newer GP hard drives. Their Intellipark "feature" prevents their drives from booting up from a menu restart and has to be disabled to work.
More research on my Samsung. It has a "low power" or "power save mode" feature where it has different levels of standby mode etc where the drive may be unresponsive immediately or even go to sleep until the computer (?) wakes it up. I don't quite understand the mechanism here, but I am guessing this is the problem when the TiVo not booting after a cold start without using the drive in a computer first (maybe restoring the boot sector is not required -- maybe just using it from a computer?). See this for more detail: http://www.samsung.com/global/busine...nsumption.html

Unfortunately there does not appear to be any utility to turn off or configure this mode. I have a call to Samsung and was told to expect a call back. But I am getting close to giving up on the HD154UI and getting a recommended drive. That'll teach me.
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Old 02-25-2010, 04:30 PM   #5079
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I have read all of the posts here and still can't figure out what to do next. I have a TIVO HD that I replaced the stock drive with a WD WD10EADS green drive with the intellipark disabled. At the same time I also added (married) another WD10EADS as an external drive.

Everything seemed to work fine for a couple of days but then I started to get a few reboots on the TIVO. I thought it was the external drive so I unmarried that drive, but still had the reboots. The last couple of days the reboots became more frequent. I took the external drive reimaged it and installed that as my primary drive, but I still get reboots and picture freezes.

I ran the WD Lifeguard tool against both drives and it passed all tests. I have an M-Card and TA installed but have since disconnect the TA but the TIVO still reboots.

Is it possible that my TIVO just doesn't like the WD drive and should I get another brand of hard drive?
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Old 02-25-2010, 04:31 PM   #5080
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Originally Posted by lex3001 View Post
More research on my Samsung. It has a "low power" or "power save mode" feature where it has different levels of standby mode etc where the drive may be unresponsive immediately or even go to sleep until the computer (?) wakes it up. I don't quite understand the mechanism here, but I am guessing this is the problem when the TiVo not booting after a cold start without using the drive in a computer first (maybe restoring the boot sector is not required -- maybe just using it from a computer?). See this for more detail: http://www.samsung.com/global/busine...nsumption.html

Unfortunately there does not appear to be any utility to turn off or configure this mode. I have a call to Samsung and was told to expect a call back. But I am getting close to giving up on the HD154UI and getting a recommended drive. That'll teach me.
Thanks for that...good info. I get all of the power cycles, trying to reduce power consumption or fully spin down the drive during periods of inactivity, makes perfect sense. Of course for our needs there's no advantage since TiVo's are recording 24/7. What I don't understand is why it won't boot up initially. After all TiVo is basically a computer, and I can understand the "standby" issues on a soft/menu reboot, but I'm confused as to why an initial boot up would be a problem. Plus, in the case of the 1TB Sammy I tried, (like your 1.5TB) why it didn't boot up at all, but some other's did...yet mine works fine as a backup drive. There's certainly something there and it seems logical it has something to do with the power-saving features, but I'm at a loss as to what the culprit is exactly.
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Old 02-25-2010, 04:37 PM   #5081
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Originally Posted by kcfun View Post
I have read all of the posts here and still can't figure out what to do next. I have a TIVO HD that I replaced the stock drive with a WD WD10EADS green drive with the intellipark disabled. At the same time I also added (married) another WD10EADS as an external drive.

Everything seemed to work fine for a couple of days but then I started to get a few reboots on the TIVO. I thought it was the external drive so I unmarried that drive, but still had the reboots. The last couple of days the reboots became more frequent. I took the external drive reimaged it and installed that as my primary drive, but I still get reboots and picture freezes.

I ran the WD Lifeguard tool against both drives and it passed all tests. I have an M-Card and TA installed but have since disconnect the TA but the TIVO still reboots.

Is it possible that my TIVO just doesn't like the WD drive and should I get another brand of hard drive?
That is curious. I suppose it's remotely possible that there is something about both drives that might be giving TiVo some heartburn. Were they both manufactured on the same date...and do the various specs on the drive label match?

The next thing I'd try is to reinstall the original hard drive and let it run for a while and see what happens.
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Old 02-25-2010, 07:04 PM   #5082
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I received an email from B&H Photo Video saying that the 1TB My DVR Expander was back in stock. I checked and YES! $129!

Amazon and JR also have them back in stock at $129.
The "positive spin" here is that perhaps TiVo and WD finally did some failure analysis and have now released a "stealth upgrade" new product that will be more reliable.

Yeah, I know, not likely, but still ...
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Old 02-25-2010, 07:07 PM   #5083
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Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
Soooo...what is this "DOS" that you speak of?
DOS Boot, I saw that movie.
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Old 02-25-2010, 07:09 PM   #5084
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re: endless restart after upgrade

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Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
Hi Michael. Sorry to hear about that. If TiVo is recognizing the drive (estimated recording hours are correct, etc.) it sounds like you did everything right. Did you attempt some recordings? How did that go?

It's possible that there's something wrong with your new drive...or that something just didn't "take" when you married it. (Perhaps a cubic zirconium diamond was discovered?) In any case, you'll probably need to start over again. I would try divorcing it and see if things return to normal. All of your original recordings should stay intact...but you'd lose any since connecting the drive. Be sure to follow the proper divorce procedure:

http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/get..._capacity.html

If TiVo behaves normally after the divorce I'd try to simply connect it again and see what happens. If the issue is still present I'd try the marriage process again. If it's still present after that I'd probably contact WD about a replacement. You can process the exchange on your own by going to the Western Digital Product Replacement site OR you can call Western Digital Customer Support at 1-800-ASK-WDC (275-4932) to have an agent process the exchange.

Curious...I guess it's good that you did, but what compelled you to force a connection?
Thank you for the advice. I will try that to see if there is an issue. I tried the diagnostic Kickstart 54 test to see if there was an issue with the drives - and they seemed to pass those test.

I will try and see if this endless restart happens after I disconnect the External Hard Drive.

I guess I will have to redo the Marry process. To be sure.

To answer your question - i was checking all the settings to see if it connected to the tivo service - and it said it failed...i initially connected the adapter incorrectly.

-mike
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Old 02-25-2010, 07:59 PM   #5085
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Don't stop now...it was just getting good!
*utters arcane incantations*

PUFF OF SMOKE

Look, Flight Simulator, on green screen, on 2 5.25" floppy drives!

PUFF OF SMOKE

Zork III, you say?

PUFF OF SMOKE

some guy at IBM says to some guy not from IBM: "Why would we want to buy your operating system for our hardware? Go ahead, sell it yourselves and see what happens. Good luck with that."

PUFF OF SMOKE

*wanders off...*
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:09 PM   #5086
richsadams
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Originally Posted by cjv2 View Post
*utters arcane incantations*

PUFF OF SMOKE

Look, Flight Simulator, on green screen, on 2 5.25" floppy drives!

PUFF OF SMOKE

Zork III, you say?

PUFF OF SMOKE

some guy at IBM says to some guy not from IBM: "Why would we want to buy your operating system for our hardware? Go ahead, sell it yourselves and see what happens. Good luck with that."

PUFF OF SMOKE

*wanders off...*
ROFLMAO
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Old 02-25-2010, 10:05 PM   #5087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjv2 View Post
*utters arcane incantations*

PUFF OF SMOKE

Look, Flight Simulator, on green screen, on 2 5.25" floppy drives!

PUFF OF SMOKE

Zork III, you say?

PUFF OF SMOKE

some guy at IBM says to some guy not from IBM: "Why would we want to buy your operating system for our hardware? Go ahead, sell it yourselves and see what happens. Good luck with that."

PUFF OF SMOKE

*wanders off...*
So, was the arcane incantation PLUGH or XYZZY?

Randy
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Old 02-25-2010, 10:14 PM   #5088
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So, was the arcane incantation PLUGH or XYZZY?

Randy
It was something like:

10 INPUT X
20 PRINT$ "PUFF OF SMOKE"
30 FOR I = 1 to X
40 classified
50 classified
60 classified
70 classified
80 PRINT$ "PUFF OF SMOKE"
90 NEXT I
100 PRINT$ "*wanders off...* "
110 END

*hides small stack of vintage software*


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Old 02-26-2010, 10:56 AM   #5089
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c:\DOS
C:\DOS\RUN\
RUN\DOS\RUN


An oldie but a goodie
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Old 02-26-2010, 11:05 AM   #5090
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c:\DOS
C:\DOS\RUN\
RUN\DOS\RUN


An oldie but a goodie
Hehe, I like that one
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:19 PM   #5091
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Successful S3 Upgrade to Samsung F3 HD103SJ 1Tb

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Just wanted to first THANK the creators/contributors of this thread and report that I just installed a 1TB SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ in my Tivo HD. I can't believe how easy it was just by following the guide:

1) Shopped carefully for 1tb drives and settled on the Samsung because of a great deal on Newegg (came bundled with a dock for $76).

2) Bought an additional SATA>USB adapter (I'm using a laptop and needed to have both the old and new drives connected during upgrade in order to transfer my recordings).

3) Installed winMFS.

4) Followed the guide here to remove old drive, connect both to the computer, copy everything over, and install the new drive. Plugged everything back in and, voila, working like a charm with 157 hours of HD recording time!

Anyway, it's only been a few hours, but so far so good! Thanks again everyone...this thread is gold!
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Originally Posted by bkdtv View Post
Please keep us informed how that Samsung F3 works for you.

Some older Samsung models (F1?) exhibited reliability issues with TiVos, but we haven't seen many reports on newer drives like the F3. That could be another alternative to the Hitachis and Seagates.
Wanted to put my two cents. After questioning my manhood because of my intention to add eSata to my S3, I opted to hunker down and do the internal drive upgrade. I was very close to upgrading internal and adding external at the same time but chickened out at the last minute. My wife was breathing down my neck since we were out of space and I was told in no uncertain terms what would happen if she had to watch another low-def American Idol.

So I followed the directions, all worked perfectly and it all made sense once I went through it. I used the Samsung F3 HD103SJ. For the copying of the drives, I purchased a dual dock (Kingwin EZ-Dock2 Model#EZD2536). Worked fine, but I have no experience with this so I don't have anything to compare it to. It only came with the required power and USB hookup.

I did the AAM noise reduction as well. It's only been a few hours, but so far everything is perfect and the machine is very quiet.

A few comments/requests based on my personal experience. A lot of this stuff is probably available if you read every post, but if someone jumps directly to the instructions, they may not have all the info.

1. Should highlight that drive copy time will be in the 4-5 hour range. I know this might be a "duh" for experienced people, but based on the quoted time on the directions, I didn't even think about it since I've never copied a hard drive--thought it happened quicker. I ended up having to get up early to finish and put it all together before the kids missed their Mickey Mouse.

2. AAM reduction worked easily. I did this first, before anything else. Since that FAQ is in a different place, you may want to post the note that Windows will not "see" the external drive attached, but HDDScan will. As a novice, I kept wondering why it wasn't being seen, and after rebooting a few times finally just tried it and there it was. I honestly wondered if I needed to format or something.

3. May want to highlight why the magnetic tip Torx are helpful. I had a hard time finding them, so bought some Stanley that were not magnetic. I didn't realize how valuable it would have been for the 4 drive dock screws because they were hard to reach.

4. I was confused on the truncated backup why it wasn't copying. In my case, I just needed to provide a file name. Again, I know for most this is a "duh", but I kept wondering if something was wrong. Also might be helpful to know the rough size of the file (mine was 287mb) and duration (about 5 minutes).

I know these are picky, but I am a perfect example of probably a lot of novices out there. Overall, this forum was awesome...I have a few more questions I'll post later. Will let you know if I ever have problems with the Sammy, and if others out there use this drive please let us all know.

D90
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Old 02-26-2010, 03:34 PM   #5092
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Wanted to put my two cents. <snip>
Very nice report and some good suggestions. I think the only challenge would be posting a standard time for those copying recordings. The connection will have a big impact (SATA Vs eSATA Vs USB) as well as the content...a full drive, partial, etc. Other than that, good stuff!

Enjoy your "new" TiVo!
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Old 02-26-2010, 04:07 PM   #5093
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Thanks for that...good info. I get all of the power cycles, trying to reduce power consumption or fully spin down the drive during periods of inactivity, makes perfect sense. Of course for our needs there's no advantage since TiVo's are recording 24/7. What I don't understand is why it won't boot up initially. After all TiVo is basically a computer, and I can understand the "standby" issues on a soft/menu reboot, but I'm confused as to why an initial boot up would be a problem. Plus, in the case of the 1TB Sammy I tried, (like your 1.5TB) why it didn't boot up at all, but some other's did...yet mine works fine as a backup drive. There's certainly something there and it seems logical it has something to do with the power-saving features, but I'm at a loss as to what the culprit is exactly.
I've got a call into Samsung tech support to see if they can provide me a utility to tweak the settings. From my initial two calls, it doesn't look promising. Now, trying to decide which 1.5TB drive to replace it with and my Sammy will become my NAS drive on my PogoPlug. Seems like the 1.5TB choices are either noisy or have power saving features. Maybe I should go the WD route and use the utility to turn off the power save?
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Old 02-26-2010, 04:19 PM   #5094
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Wanted to put my two cents.
...
I used the Samsung F3 HD103SJ.
...
Will let you know if I ever have problems with the Sammy, and if others out there use this drive please let us all know.
My drive (HD154UI) has similar features including power saving mode. Mine also worked great at first, however I have found an alarmingly annoying problem. Whenever the TiVo loses power -- either because their horrible Netflix player caused to hang and I had to unplug it, or when we have a power outage, it will not boot back up properly more than 75% of the time. Hangs in the first screen or goes to a blank gray screen and hangs.

I have found a workaround is to plug the drive back into an external USB case and restore the boot+kernal using WinMFS. I suspect that restoring only the boot might be necessary -- or perhaps simply plugging it in and using it may be necessary (to get it out of some weird power saving mode perhaps). Then TiVo boots fine again.

So, I suggest you test it out -- unplug your TiVO, wait 30 seconds, and plug it back in. See if it boots. Try this a few times. Better to know now than right before the season finale of Lost is about to start. Lemme know what you find out.
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Old 02-26-2010, 07:43 PM   #5095
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I've got a call into Samsung tech support to see if they can provide me a utility to tweak the settings. From my initial two calls, it doesn't look promising. Now, trying to decide which 1.5TB drive to replace it with and my Sammy will become my NAS drive on my PogoPlug. Seems like the 1.5TB choices are either noisy or have power saving features. Maybe I should go the WD route and use the utility to turn off the power save?
I'd go with the WD or a Hitachi (HD31000 IDK/7K) and leave the Sammy in the NAS.
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Old 02-26-2010, 07:47 PM   #5096
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...or when we have a power outage, it will not boot back up properly more than 75% of the time.
A UPS is a MUST! Power outages/failures/spikes are the #1 culprit when it comes to data corruption and hard drive failure. A UPS can be really cheap insurance.
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Old 02-27-2010, 12:52 AM   #5097
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Sorry to hear about your loss. These things happen I guess. It's not encouraging to hear that the Fantom drive didn't last much or any longer than the 500GB WD My DVR Expanders. In your case it's obvious that it's actually the hard drive that went south though.
This can happen to any hard drive in any particular environment. Yeah, I am bummed that it happened, but it is not enough to scare me off of trying the drive again. Now if it happens again with the new exact model drive that I just ordered from Newegg, I will let you guys know and try something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
IIRC the "housecleaning" can take a while when an eSATA drive is disconnected, particularly a 1TB.
Well... I did check back about 24 hours later and the TivoHD was back to life. I didn't look to see what I was able to keep with the internal 1TB drive. It will be interesting to see what survived.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
Thanks for the valuable feedback. Hopefully yours will be an isolated case. Best of luck!
Happy to do so... and I will report back on how they handled my warranty claim as well (still no reply yet).

-Dave
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Old 02-27-2010, 09:58 AM   #5098
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I feel a little foolish adding this to a thread where guys are constantly ripping open their Tivo's and jamming huge new drives into them, but I don't know where else to post it.

My Tivo Series 3 with My DVR Expander eSATA external drive has recently begun to have problems. It has begun rebooting increasingly frequently, and now, once the reboot has finished, has begun to flash the "External Media Missing" alert.

I figured that there'd be a sticky in this area telling me step by step what I should do to diagnose and remedy the problem, but can't find it. Does anyone know where I could find something like that? I bet it's a pretty common problem.

I'm worried that my external HD is ready for a dirt nap.
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Old 02-27-2010, 10:18 AM   #5099
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaze View Post
I feel a little foolish adding this to a thread where guys are constantly ripping open their Tivo's and jamming huge new drives into them, but I don't know where else to post it.

My Tivo Series 3 with My DVR Expander eSATA external drive has recently begun to have problems. It has begun rebooting increasingly frequently, and now, once the reboot has finished, has begun to flash the "External Media Missing" alert.

I figured that there'd be a sticky in this area telling me step by step what I should do to diagnose and remedy the problem, but can't find it. Does anyone know where I could find something like that? I bet it's a pretty common problem.

I'm worried that my external HD is ready for a dirt nap.
I concur with your diagnosis. There's not a lot you can do. Try to save any recordings to a PC with TiVo Desktop or a similar tool and divorce the external drive. Consider an internal upgrade.
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Old 02-27-2010, 01:07 PM   #5100
richsadams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaze View Post
My Tivo Series 3 with My DVR Expander eSATA external drive has recently begun to have problems. It has begun rebooting increasingly frequently, and now, once the reboot has finished, has begun to flash the "External Media Missing" alert.
Oh come on...man up and rip that box open! Kidding. A very basic first step is to just reboot everything...

- Unplug your TiVo from the power source
- Turn off your external hard drive and let it spin down (give it about 15 seconds)
- Check to be sure the eSATA cable is secure/snug at the drive and TiVo end
- Turn your external hard drive back on and let it spin up (10 seconds or so)
- Plug your TiVo back in
- See how it goes

Often times just rebooting will do the trick. However if that doesn't do it, have a look at one of my earlier posts and see if it helps:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...44#post7553444

You can also try running some of TiVo's built in diagnostic and repair programs called Kickstarts. More here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...23&postcount=2

KS54 will check both drives for errors. It's not infallible but can often find some issues. KS57 and KS58 are designed to hunt down and fix minor problems. Anything beyond that requires...yes...opening something.

If that doesn't do it go ahead and post some more info and some of the brilliant minds that haunt this thread will certainly offer some assistance. I can't promise someone won't kick sand at you as they walk by, but they're usually pretty good folks.

Best of luck!
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