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Old 09-14-2009, 08:03 AM   #3571
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...I found the [ST315005N4A1AS-RK] specs on their web site but I can't find anything about the seek noise levels. Since it's a 5900RPM drive I'd think it would be fairly quiet. How would you rate the one you just put in against the original? TIA.
You can usually find Seagate specs in their PDF library (26 dB for ST315005N4A1AS-RK). The Seagate Barracuda LP (Low Power) series is basically the equivalent of WDC's Green Power series. So, even though Seagate doesn't participate in the AAM standards, some of their drives are quiet enough that it doesn't matter. The catch is to make sure you get the right model because some recent Seagates are real chatterboxes.

I think the Seagate ST315005N4A1AS-RK will be the next drive I use for my S3 just to get that silly extra bit of space.
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:04 AM   #3572
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I just put a st315005n4a1as-rk in my Series 3 and it bumped my HD hours from 142 to 213 (WinMFS SuperSize option in use). I also tested the soft reboot from the Settings > Restart option and no more hang at Powering Up screen.

Fry's just had a Friday sale for these for just $104.99 (should still be going on), when most online sellers have this part for around $150.

That's the report from this guinea pig.
Thanks very much for the compatibility info and the heads-up about the Fry's sale. I got two off at the $104.99 price which even with tax I come out ahead compared to the typical street price as you mentioned. Note that a TiVo user would want the ST315005N4A1AS-RK LP version of the 1.5 TB and not the louder ST315005N1A1AS-RK regular one.

Also note that online shoppers won't be able to search for the model number at Fry's and get the sale price for some reason so enter via this link which uses Fry's internal part number instead.
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Old 09-14-2009, 11:25 AM   #3573
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WD My DVR Expander VS WD10EVVS

Any disadvantages/advantages between these 2?

B&H has the My DVR Expander for $129 (backordered) which is a very good price
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._Expander.html

Worth jumping on this since this will be a little cheaper than the WD+Casing? Or you could suggest an enclosure

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Old 09-14-2009, 11:49 AM   #3574
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Any disadvantages/advantages between these 2?

B&H has the My DVR Expander for $129 (backordered) which is a very good price
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._Expander.html

Worth jumping on this since this will be a little cheaper than the WD+Casing?
The WD My DVR Expander (500GB or 1TB) is an external (eSATA) hard drive designed to be plug and pray for the TiVo Series3, TiVo HD or TiVo HDXL. It has a one-year warranty. The caveat is that only the My DVR Expander can be installed via P&P with the TiVo HD and TiVo HDXL. What TiVo model do you have?

The WD10EVVS carries a three-year warranty and sells for <$100 right now. The Antec MX-1 enclosure also carries a three-year warranty.

Building an eSATA drive using the WD10EVVS and a recommended enclosure such as an Antec MX-1 would be a little more expensive. The difference in warranties is also a consideration. (And if you have a Series3 or not.)

Hope that helps!

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Old 09-14-2009, 11:52 AM   #3575
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I'm not clear about what you want to do. The WD10EVVS is a bare hard drive good for internal upgrades for the TiVo Series3 and TiVo HD. It has a three-year warranty. It's selling for <$100 in a few places now.

The WD My DVR Expander (500GB or 1TB) is an external (eSATA) hard drive designed to be plug and pray for the TiVo Series3, TiVo HD or TiVo HDXL. It has a one-year warranty.

If you asking if building an eSATA drive using the WD10EVVS and a recommended enclosure such as an Antec MX-1, the My DVR Expander would be a little less expensive. The caveat is that only the My DVR Expander can be installed via P&P with the TiVo HD. The difference in warranties is also a consideration.

If that didn't help, post a little more specifically about what you'd like to do.
Thanks Rich. I guess I was a bit unclear, however you provided all the info I needed.

John

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Old 09-14-2009, 12:00 PM   #3576
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Thanks Rich. I guess I was a bit unclear, however you provided all the info I needed.

Does the WD HD or Antec enclosure include a e-sata cable?

John
My apologies...I didn't read your first post correctly. I updated my post. Hope it makes more sense now.
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:00 PM   #3577
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ahh, okay makes more sense now. I have a Series 3 Tivo.

Does the WD10EVVS or Antec enclosure come with an e-sata cable?
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:02 PM   #3578
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Does the WD10EVVS or Antec enclosure come with an e-sata cable?
The WD10EVVS is a bare drive, nothing else included. The Antec MX-1 comes with it's own eSATA cable, power supply, etc.

I had that exact setup w/our TiVo Series3 (except a 500GB drive - 1TB was only a dream then) in an Antec MX-1 enclosure when TiVo first activated the eSATA port a couple of years ago and it worked great. I've since upgraded the internal hard drive but I still use the MX-1 as an external back up for one of our computers...still humming along.
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:05 PM   #3579
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The WD10EVVS is a bare drive, nothing else included. The Antec MX-1 comes with it's own eSATA cable, power supply, etc.
Great! Provantage is not very clear about the Antec enclosure including a cable (even though other sites say it does) so I just wanted to double check.
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:17 PM   #3580
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Great! Provantage is not very clear about the Antec enclosure including a cable (even though other sites say it does) so I just wanted to double check.
Yep, that's all you'll need. Be sure to connect it per the instructions (www.tivo.com/expand). Basically you want to unplug TiVo, connect the eSATA drive, power it up, wait 10 seconds or so for it to spin up, then plug TiVo back in. There will be a found/"unsupported drive" warning screen. I can't recall if you just click on "Add" or three thumbs up or whatever, but just tell it you want to install it and it'll be fine. (For anyone else, that only applies to TiVo Series3's as they will accept eSATA drives other than the WD My DVR Expander via P&P.)

BTW, Antec has a nice little drive installation video here (scroll down and click on "Video"):

http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=NzA0MjIx

Happy upgrading!
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Old 09-14-2009, 03:53 PM   #3581
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Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I saw the MSFLive disk option. I was even able to generate a command line from the generator. I'm a bit unsure of using the boot CD. I guess I'm afraid it won't be as easy to follow as I found the MFSwin a year or 2 ago. Plus, I want to do the upgrade asap before the fall season starts.

The thing that gets me is, according to everything I've read, it should be possible to use winmfs. I've never touched my internal hd & married my external via Kickstart. Both facts seem to be critical according to what I've gleaned from Spike's site. And according to the boot CD duel drive to single drive page, it is possible to do it via winmfs. Question is, can I figure out how to do it.

I just found a possible road block. I've got a 1TB EVVS in house. Apparently, a 250 + a 750 is a little more than 1GB. I wonder if deleting a huge amount of recordings will also reduce the size transferred. I had assumed (I know, I know ) that the more I deleted prior to transfer the smaller the destination drive would need to be. Anyone?
I'm in the exact same boat as you. Unfortunately, I have no feedback to offer in regards to getting this to work. I've resigned myself to backing up my recordings to Mac and PC. If I can transfer them back to the TiVo from the PC, and it doesn't work I'll at least have them on my Mac for posterity.

Crossing fingers that I can get my TiVo up and running this week in time for the new shows coming up! Most important = Fringe in HD OTA!
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Old 09-14-2009, 04:10 PM   #3582
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I just found a possible road block. I've got a 1TB EVVS in house. Apparently, a 250 + a 750 is a little more than 1GB. I wonder if deleting a huge amount of recordings will also reduce the size transferred. I had assumed (I know, I know ) that the more I deleted prior to transfer the smaller the destination drive would need to be. Anyone?

You might post in the MFSLIVE forums. Older tools copied deleted recordings. I don't know about mfslive and I don't know if permanently deleting the show from the recently deleted folder changes anything.

Older tools wouldn't let you copy recordings if the new drive wasn't as large as the old drive. Some drives with the same capacity are slightly smaller and some people had "issues".
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:13 PM   #3583
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I accidentally ordered the iOmega 1TB dvr expander after reading the "series 3 works with generic exteral eSata" and not realizing the Tivo HD *is not* series 3. (I didn't read closely, I know, I know..)

Anyhow, too lazy to return and impetuous, I went ahead and took everything apart. The iOmega 1TB DVR expander comes with a Pipeline HD.2 Seagate drive.

http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/pro...nics/pipeline/

Nice, actually. The unit also is an "always on" design because it is made for DVRs. Very quiet, low heat, good performance. So, while I understand the "hard switch" directive, I actually think this is as-good or better, because it doesn't have any fancy circuitry inside, like alot of other enclosures--it's designed for always-on DVR performance. The enclosure is the same-- aluminum, with insulated "heat wicks" inside to move the heat to the metal enclosure without any fans.

Venturing into my Boot Camp Windows 7 partition in order to run WinMFS, (as administrator) I backed up the main drive, married the drive.

First time,I got an error code when I tried to marry the drives. GSOD, reboot loop. Got a clue, and figured it was MacDrive, so I disabled it. Deleted the partitions, restored from backup (with age comes wisdom, I've learned) and then re-married. No error.

Hooked them up, (drive connected and powered on 1st) and presto, 1.16 GiB or so. No recordings, and I only have an OTA antenna, no cable, so it will take me a while to fill it, but looks good so far, and with the Pipeline HD in there, I feel pretty good about it long term.

Thanks for the FAQ. And while I would have rather had a PnP enclosure to save myself an hour or two, I feel like this one is pretty solid...

It's good to be back in the land of TiVo.

Edited to add: I should mention I used an eSata double dock with a si 3132 chip based card in windows to do the update, so it was really plug-and-play on that side.

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Old 09-14-2009, 05:20 PM   #3584
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Thanks Lew,
Yeah, I feel kinda funny making the mistake of getting a drive prior to *really* diving deep into the process but it's a done deal now. I did post on the mfslive forums, no replies. I already have permanently deleted about half the shows.

I'm going to start the process on Wednesday after the kid is on the bus.
The first thing will be to DL both mfswin & mfslive & burn a disk. I'm gonna try the mfswin just 'cuz after thinking about it for so long I just have to see if it's possible.
I'll mount both my internal & external as source drives,
attempt to do a backup, & then (fingers crossed)
transfer.
If I get an error then I'll revert to mfslive to make sure the error wasn't due to mfswin's capabilities.
If I get an error in mfslive then also I'll assume my destination drive is too small.

If I'm unable to transfer the recordings using either mfswin/live due to a small destination drive then I'll revert to mfswin and attempt to divorce the external drive without putting them back into the tivo/external enclosure etc all.

My biggest concern is being able to do a back-up prior to starting the process. I'm not sure it's possible to do a back-up because of not divorcing & mounting *two* sorce drives.
Dealing with TW is such a pain. Hey, here's another question, Can I use another unmodified internal HD for an image even if it's got different Cablecards attached? I've got my old internal hd form my other S3. I'm trying to avoid buying Instacake if I mess up.

Scotlandforever,
I'll post my results on Wednesday or Thursday. I was hopeful that I could get mfswin to transfer my shows prior to my booboo regarding the destination drive size.
Unfortunately TimeWarner's draconian copying flags are a huge roadblock to moving shows over to my pc.
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:45 PM   #3585
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I accidentally ordered the iOmega 1TB dvr expander after reading the "series 3 works with generic exteral eSata" <snip>
Very brave and nice work. Good info too.

Enjoy!
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Old 09-15-2009, 07:39 PM   #3586
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Arrow Think WD Expander is dying, prepping for surgery

I suspect that the WD DVR Expander I purchased for my Series 3 the moment they were available is dying.

I've seen the same symptoms as others have experienced. SD video is fine, HD is not, with macroblocking, audio drops and freezes occuring.

KS52 did not turn up any drive errors (for what that's worth).

I swapped the original eSATA cables with the recommend one with no improvement so I'm going to try to extricate the drive from the WD enclosure and use the recommended Antec enclosure.

Anything I should be on the lookout for as I move the drive?
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Old 09-15-2009, 09:50 PM   #3587
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I suspect that the WD DVR Expander I purchased for my Series 3 the moment they were available is dying.

I've seen the same symptoms as others have experienced. SD video is fine, HD is not, with macroblocking, audio drops and freezes occuring.

KS52 did not turn up any drive errors (for what that's worth).

I swapped the original eSATA cables with the recommend one with improvement so I'm going to try to extricate the drive from the WD enclosure and use the recommended Antec enclosure.

Anything I should be on the lookout for as I move the drive?
If replacing the SATA cable cured the problem, there's really no reason to pull the drive IMHO...unless you want a spiffy new fan cooled enclosure. The original SATA cables supplied with the early WD My DVR Expanders were notoriously bad. I'm surprised it took this long for yours to act up!

In any case, since the WD enclosures seem to be problematic at some point, if you do pull the drive and pop it in a new enclosure, just be sure to follow the proper disconnect/connect procedures:

www.tivo.com/expand.

Basically you want to unplug TiVo, disconnect the "old" drive, conduct the surgical procedure, connect the "new" eSATA drive, power it up, wait 10 seconds or so for it to spin up, then plug TiVo back in.

If you do make the switch I know I and others would appreciate it if you'd post your results. TIA!
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:03 AM   #3588
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Thanks, and I meant to say the eSATA cable was replaced with NO improvement. Forgot that important word!

I'll report back on how the surgery goes once the drive enclosure ships from Amazon.
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:52 AM   #3589
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Is it possible the WDs are just getting too full or fragmented? Has anyone reformatted on a PC then reconnected to a Tivo to see if performance returns? 3-4 stream HD video takes a lot from a drive, and if its very full/fragmented, it might be dropping performance. (2 buffers written, 1 watching and potentially 1 HMO simultaneously)

This whole "SD works but HD doesn't" thing is very suspect to me-- that sounds like 100% datarate, and that is a *weird* way for an enclosure to fail. Cable, maybe, and error correction is getting some back? Still though-- sounds a whole lot more like full drive/fragmentation....

Apologies if this has been covered already.
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Old 09-16-2009, 10:04 AM   #3590
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Is it possible the WDs are just getting too full or fragmented? Has anyone reformatted on a PC then reconnected to a Tivo to see if performance returns? 3-4 stream HD video takes a lot from a drive, and if its very full/fragmented, it might be dropping performance. (2 buffers written, 1 watching and potentially 1 HMO simultaneously)

This whole "SD works but HD doesn't" thing is very suspect to me-- that sounds like 100% datarate, and that is a *weird* way for an enclosure to fail. Cable, maybe, and error correction is getting some back? Still though-- sounds a whole lot more like full drive/fragmentation....

Apologies if this has been covered already.
Not a bad theory. However there are a number of reports where the hard drive was simply moved to a new enclosure to resolve the issue. (Recordings intact, etc.) The drive wasn't reformatted, no change except the enclosure.

The symptoms of a failing eSATA drive (bad enclosure, cable, etc.) are generally stuttering, sometime pixelization/macroblocking and/or the TiVo becoming unresponsive.

The SD Vs HD issue is usually the sign of actual hard drive failure (internal or external). In some cases removing or replacing the external drive resolves the issue, in others the internal drive has to be replaced. Recordings are striped across both drives so AFAIK there's no reason to think that the external drive would be any more subject to data corruption than the internal. Fragmentation in the Unix/Linux/TiVo world isn't generally an issue as it is with a Windows environment.

You're correct in that HD data throughput is a great deal higher. A failing drive may begin to exhibit problems when error correction can't keep up or it may be bad sectors or other issues.

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Old 09-16-2009, 10:05 AM   #3591
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Thanks, and I meant to say the eSATA cable was replaced with NO improvement. Forgot that important word!

I'll report back on how the surgery goes once the drive enclosure ships from Amazon.
Got it. TIA!
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Old 09-16-2009, 01:37 PM   #3592
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The first hard drives I ever purchased (although not for persoanl use) were a pair of 12" removable media 8Mb hard drives. They cost $12,000 in 1981. Allowing for inflation, that's over $2000 per Meg, or $2 Billion for a 1T drive! I also remember paying $500 for 48K of memory in 1983. By that metric, the machine at which I am now sitting has $87 Million worth of memory in it.
Just checking in from Westfir, OR (Rich may even know where that is) and I do remember those drives for the IBM 360!
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Old 09-16-2009, 05:51 PM   #3593
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Just wanted to say I bought a WD10EVCS – 63E0B0 back in Jan ’09 and it started causing my TiVo HD to reboot randomly. As soon as I put the original TiVo Hard Drive back in, the TiVo started behaving normally again. I am starting to question the quality of Western Digital products. Anybody else have/having a problem with the WD10EVCS?
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Old 09-16-2009, 06:34 PM   #3594
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Just wanted to say I bought a WD10EVCS – 63E0B0 back in Jan ’09 and it started causing my TiVo HD to reboot randomly. As soon as I put the original TiVo Hard Drive back in, the TiVo started behaving normally again. I am starting to question the quality of Western Digital products. Anybody else have/having a problem with the WD10EVCS?
If you still have the drive you can run the WD diagnostics on it to see if it is defective.
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:05 PM   #3595
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If you still have the drive you can run the WD diagnostics on it to see if it is defective.
I ran the quick test and no errors were found. The extended test is going to take 3 hours I will do that later.
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:17 PM   #3596
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ok, so i have read about 7 pages so far and searched for info about using 2 tb internal drives. it appears, according to the first page that it is not possible. i see two ebay sellers with them for sale....is this a scam? ebay auctions 220474752169 and 260459062178. i think 260$ is reasonable for a "no external box" solution if it is truly plug and play, uses a reliable drive and you actually get 318hrs of HD recording.

I just searched another major retail Tivo upgrade company and they too are providing 2tb internal solutions Can anyone comment on this?
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:38 PM   #3597
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Due to litigation years ago Seagate was forced to officially withdraw AAM support on thier drives so Seagate drive acoustics cannot be adjusted. Seagate DB35 dedicated AV drives are recommended since they already have lowered acoustics. Some of their newer models seem to have better acoustic specs as well.

There are a couple of third-party Windows programs that can adjust the AAM (controlling I/O, primarily seek speed, and by slowing access times and lowering sequential reads) for PC's, but they do not actually change the AAM settings of the drive itself.

The Hitachi Feature Tool works fine on WD and of course Hitachi hard drives.
Rich, I assume this is still the case with Seagate drives? That quote was from last Jan. I've got a Seagate ST3750640AS, 750GB. I just took it out of my eSATA & was hoping too quite it down a bit.
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Old 09-17-2009, 12:46 AM   #3598
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Rich, I assume this is still the case with Seagate drives? That quote was from last Jan. I've got a Seagate ST3750640AS, 750GB. I just took it out of my eSATA & was hoping too quite it down a bit.
Hi alyssa. With Seagates you get what you get; still no way to change the seek activity/acoustics. They do make AV drives that are as quiet as any...but some are real thrashing machines. Not sure about the model you have...although it sounds like it's violating the "seen and not heard" rule.
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Old 09-17-2009, 01:04 AM   #3599
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ok, so i have read about 7 pages so far and searched for info about using 2 tb internal drives. it appears, according to the first page that it is not possible. i see two ebay sellers with them for sale....is this a scam? ebay auctions 220474752169 and 260459062178. i think 260$ is reasonable for a "no external box" solution if it is truly plug and play, uses a reliable drive and you actually get 318hrs of HD recording.

I just searched another major retail Tivo upgrade company and they too are providing 2tb internal solutions Can anyone comment on this?
IIRC you cannot have a single partition larger than 1TB and a 2TB drive will create a partition larger than 1 TB so a simple upgrade as outlined in the first post won't work with current TiVo software "as is".

However, if you're up for some coding I think it will work if you hack the kernel and apply a couple of patches, but I've never felt the need to go that far. I've read posts where people have taken a day or more to hand code a 2TB drive to get it to work...but they are much braver and wiser (and have far more patience) than yours truly.

Otherwise everything mentioned in the first post on this sticky about 1.5TB drives for the Series3 and TiVo HD would also apply to a 2TB.

That said I know the TCF sponsor, DVRUpgrade is selling a 2TB drive for about $500 so they've apparently done some legwork. They are very genuine and more than trustworthy. Can't speak for anyone else selling something similar.

You could also check winMFS author Spike on the MFSlive.org Forum (http://mfslive.org/forums/) for more info.
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Old 09-17-2009, 10:20 AM   #3600
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Thanks Rich, I had hoped to quite the external. oh well...

As to my upgrade of a stock internal S3 and a kickstart married external;
in short, I ended up upgrading the internal to 1TB, losing all the recordings, remarrying the external, and supersizing. This gives me 251 hd hours.

I tried to use mfswin to combing both the 250GB & my external, 750GB but was unsuccessful. At first I had difficulties selecting a b drive, when the correct drive was selected it would not show up in the bottom tray and I'd get the error #9 A drive is married to B but only A's selected. This might have been caused by a faulty cable.
At one point I was able to get past this to the mfscopy screen but a windows box popped up stating the program has stopped running. The mfscopy screen was grayed out but I could make out this error "combing 2 drives to 1 is not supported yet'

I then attempted mfslive. Being a *complete* novice in such languages I found it difficult to simply navigate. Two commands I'd recommend are
fdisk -1 --This list's all attached drives with their size. This way a person can double check to make sure they're going to & from the correct drive.
I think this will work too Shift (and the up arrow key) This should enable a person to look back at an explanation that scrolled by too fast to read.

I was able to get to the point of receiving the following error;
/dev/sda/dev/sdb10:not a directory This was in response to the following;
backup -qTao - /dev/sda /dev/sdb | restore -s 128 -zpi - /dev/sdc

At this point I needed to move on & decided to lose all my recordings. In mfswin I attempted to restore from the back up I had preformed earlier while the original HD was married to the external & was unable to do so. In other words; I learned that a back up done while the drives are married are not useful when attempting to restore to a single drive. No real surprise there.

Couple of thoughts;
A *basic* lenix keyboard navigation tutorial might be helpful to those of us who are n00b about such stuff. For example in typing the command, I was unsure if I was suppose to add spaces between the - and the /. Silly stuff I know but it would be a great addition to the community knowledge base and help those of us who aren't afraid of trying something new but get baffled by the basics. Yes, I do realize that a little bit of knowledge could get me in deep, deep doodoo. But that's for me to figure out.

I wonder why I've only ended up with 251 HD hours. A 1TB internal (157hours) plus a 750GB (131hours) should equal 288 hd hours. I did supersize the internal. I didn't think of supersizing the external. Would that give me the extra 37 hours? Or am I missing something else?

Going forward, I'd be interested in the results if anyone else tries a 2 to 1 transfer with a 1.5TB drive using mfswin.

eta This would have been very helpful!!
Quote:
I get the following error:

Backup: /dev/sda10: Success.
To attempt backup anyway, try again with -E. -s is implied by -E
snip answer from spike
Use the following command w/o "p"
backup -qTao - /dev/sda /dev/sdb | restore -s 128 -zi - /dev/sdc

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Last edited by alyssa : 09-18-2009 at 09:01 AM.
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