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Old 10-17-2007, 09:35 PM   #1
escrge
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TiVo Won't Upgrade - Tech Support No Help

So I wrote a few days ago about how one of my two TiVo's hadn't upgraded to 9.1. It turns out it had been trying to since 10/02, but the upgrade wouldn't take. I've rebooted the dang thing 10 times by now each time making a connection to the TiVo service. Each time it reboots, it says that it's applying a service update, but I'm still stuck at 8.3.

I called tech support and they confirmed that it was trying to update, but after putting me on hold for about 3 minutes, the girl came back on the phone and said that I have a bad sector on the hard drive and she could replace the unit for a fee since I'm out of warranty.

I'm sorry, but unless she was able to do a thorough diagnostic test (remotely) on my TiVo in the 3 minutes I was on hold, she was full of crap. She just didn't want to help me.

As I type this, I'm resetting the unit and starting over from scratch. In the meantime, my two TiVo's can't see each other because they're different versions.

I'll report back on whether I was successful...
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Old 10-17-2007, 09:52 PM   #2
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I have the same prob, my 2 week old S2 DT has not updated and my 2 year old S2 ST has now I can not see my updated Tivo on the machine that has not updated.

is there a way to force the update?
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Old 10-17-2007, 11:36 PM   #3
richdean
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I too have been having this problem on an unmodified 140 Hour S2. TechSupport was of no help -- told me I had a bad hard drive. Tivo works just fine with 8.3x so that's unlikely.
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Old 10-18-2007, 01:47 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richdean
I too have been having this problem on an unmodified 140 Hour S2. TechSupport was of no help -- told me I had a bad hard drive. Tivo works just fine with 8.3x so that's unlikely.

Sorry but no it's not.

When your TiVo downloads an new update, it installs it in a previously inactive (or unused) partition.
When it reboots, it tries to load from the new partition.
If it successfully loads the new update, it deactivates the previous program partition until the next software update comes out and is downloaded to the old partition.

If there are bad sectors on that partition, the update will fail.

Fortunately, even you have some PC hardware skills, it's very easy to replace the hard drive.

Trot over to the Upgrade Center for more information.
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Old 10-18-2007, 07:34 AM   #5
escrge
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I promised an update, so here it is...

I did a complete reset where I cleared & deleted everything, then repeated the guided setup and IT WORKED!

If there really was a bad sector on the hard drive or partition, I'm guessing that the wipe had also deleted the update that was waiting. Once a new update was downloaded, the bad sector was skipped over.

Now I can see the set in the other room. And to think I almost considered paying TiVo for a replacement.
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Old 10-18-2007, 07:46 AM   #6
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Congratulations on getting it working, but if I were you I'd keep an eye out for other quirks that might be caused by a bad hard drive. It would probably be a good idea to make an image of the drive now so that if it does end up failing in the near future you aren't put out much. Speaking from personal experience here...
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Old 10-18-2007, 09:22 AM   #7
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Making an image of the HD

Quote:
Originally Posted by dylanemcgregor
It would probably be a good idea to make an image of the drive ...
How does one go about making an image of a Tivo HD? Is there a website that explains the procedure?

While I have no present trouble with my Tivo, I'm considering getting a larger HD. I think my present HD only records about 20 hours of "extreme high quality" so it's easy to bump up against the limit.

I understand that I can buy a HD that is already set to go for Tivo, but that choice limits my HD choice.

My Tivo is a Pioneer Series 2 which seems to work fine recording HD signals and either converting or replaying them in the extreme high quality mode although certainly not in HD. I bought the lifetime service contract and plan to run this puppy until it dies. I should also state that it runs in my game room area. My main TV is fed from a Comcast HD box with HD playback so I consider my Tivo unit my secondary set.

If I could transfer my lifetime service, I would probably buy a Tivo HD receiver in about a New York Minute.
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Old 10-18-2007, 11:08 AM   #8
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If I'm not mistaken, to get an image, you pull the drive out, plug it into your PC, then boot your PC to an MFS utility CD, and then execute mfsbackup command to backup the hard drive to another media (like maybe a hard drive). I could be mistaken about this though, so don't take my word for it.

I actually have an image of my TiVo that sits on one CD. It fits on there because my image has no Now Playing shows or Season Passes on it. When I restore the image to a drive, it puts the TiVo in it's initial state, and I have to redo guided setup and setup all my SPs, etc.

I got my image for free from another TCFer that was willing to give it to me.
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Old 10-20-2007, 04:40 PM   #9
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I'm having the same exact problem, stuck at 8.3 and won't update & won't retrieve program data. It's kinda hard to believe we all have hard drive defects at the same time. I think I'll try running SpinRite on it out of curiosity.
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Old 10-20-2007, 04:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stagemaster
I'm having the same exact problem, stuck at 8.3 and won't update & won't retrieve program data. It's kinda hard to believe we all have hard drive defects at the same time. I think I'll try running SpinRite on it out of curiosity.
If you have SpinRite, do it. But that program ain't free.

If your drive is a Western Digital you can run their free software and check for bad sectors (and repair them).

DataLifeGaurd Diagnostic for DOS (CD)
http://support.wdc.com/download/inde...id=999&swid=30
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Old 10-20-2007, 06:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arod
How does one go about making an image of a Tivo HD? Is there a website that explains the procedure?
www.mfslive.org

Very painless to do. I also had a stuttering Tivo and the Clear and Delete Everything made it better for a few days.
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Old 10-20-2007, 07:23 PM   #12
richdean
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FYI, I did a "clear and delete" on my 140 Hour s2 and the problem remains, even after doing another kickstart 58.

Since my TiVo has no problems under 8.3 I'm not going to pull the drive and "upgrade" it yet. I still think this is some other problem given how apparently-widespread this issue seems to be. I'm just now stuck without MRV, which sucks.

Thanks for the ideas and help!
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Old 10-22-2007, 09:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_burns
If you have SpinRite, do it. But that program ain't free.

If your drive is a Western Digital you can run their free software and check for bad sectors (and repair them).

DataLifeGaurd Diagnostic for DOS (CD)
http://support.wdc.com/download/inde...id=999&swid=30
Your right, SpinRite aint free, but it's worth every penny. Well I ran it in level 4 and found no drive defects whatsoever. Reinstalled the drive and still won't upgrade or retrieve guide data, even tried switching from network to phone line ... nada. So I think we can rule out sector errors.
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Old 10-22-2007, 09:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stagemaster
Your right, SpinRite aint free, but it's worth every penny. Well I ran it in level 4 and found no drive defects whatsoever. Reinstalled the drive and still won't upgrade or retrieve guide data, even tried switching from network to phone line ... nada. So I think we can rule out sector errors.
If the drive is OK, I guess I would try reimaging it with InstantCake. (Will lose all recording and settings unfortunately.) Short of that scorched earth tactic, not sure what else you could try.
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Old 10-23-2007, 09:15 AM   #15
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Why don't you kickstart it and force an fscheck and/or the software update? Maybe there's corruption in the file system?

I'd do a Kickstart 57, then maybe a Kickstart 58, followed by the kickstart 52. They each do different things.

http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/for...ostID=10192098

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...&&#post5621314

Last edited by BobCamp1 : 10-23-2007 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 10-23-2007, 10:35 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobCamp1
Why don't you kickstart it and force an fscheck and/or the software update? Maybe there's corruption in the file system?

I'd do a Kickstart 57, then maybe a Kickstart 58, followed by the kickstart 52. They each do different things.

http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/for...ostID=10192098

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...&&#post5621314
Thanks Bob, I was previously unaware of the kickstart procedure, but I have doing some further investigating and came across other posts recommending this. I'll give it a try.
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Old 10-23-2007, 10:47 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobCamp1
Why don't you kickstart it and force an fscheck and/or the software update? Maybe there's corruption in the file system?

I'd do a Kickstart 57, then maybe a Kickstart 58, followed by the kickstart 52. They each do different things.

http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/for...ostID=10192098

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...&&#post5621314
Just a note that KS52 is the correct way to get the TiVo software to download onto the alternate partition. TiVo's built-in diagnostic program, KS57, is similar to "check disk". The KS method's may or may not correct some problems. Here's the details for both:

Kickstart 57:

1. Unplug TiVo and wait 15 seconds.
2. Plug TiVo in, get the TiVo remote and aim it at TiVo.
3. Press and hold the pause button until the yellow light(s) comes back on by itself.
4. Release the pause button and immediately type in the numbers 5 and 7 on the remote (you have about 10 seconds to do this step).
5. TiVo will reboot and the GSOD screen will come on saying TiVo has encountered a serious error. It will then run the disk management tool which can take from 10 minutes to 3 hours to complete. During this time it will look for and correct configuration problems as well as isolating any bad sectors on the hard drive so they can no longer be used.
6. TiVo will automatically reboot again. (Programs that used any bad sectors may be lost.)
It's possible that a recent upgrade may have been corrupted. If so you could try downloading a fresh copy of the software by using "Kickstart 52".
Kickstart 52 – Reinstalling TiVo Software:

1. Go to TiVo Central
2. Select Messages & Setup
3. Select System Reset
4. Select Restart Receiver
5. Press Thumbs Down three times
6. Press Enter
7. While the system is restarting, during the initial screen, press and hold the PAUSE button until only yellow light(s) illuminate.
8. Put the remote down and wait. The system will proceed to the "Almost There..." screen for a moment and then jump to a new screen , "TiVo is installing new software from the TiVo service".
9. After a time (a few minutes to an hour) TiVo will automatically reboot again.
Note that SP's, WL's, etc. will be maintained with either KS method.
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Old 10-23-2007, 11:44 AM   #18
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Also note that kickstart 57 is NOT the same as 58, and if one doesn't work you should simply try the other one.
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Old 10-23-2007, 12:01 PM   #19
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"KS57" triggers an MFS assert (GSOD), which marks the file system as being damaged. The repair process detects and repairs inode/data problems, and then runs mfscheck to clean up database and directory problems.

"KS58" runs fsfix with an additional option that causes it to make multiple passes over the inodes, re-hashing them and clearing collision bits.

Here’s the info for KS58:
Kickstart 58:

1. Go to TiVo Central
2. Select Messages & Setup
3. Select System Reset
4. Select Restart Receiver
5. Press Thumbs Down three times
6. Press Enter
7. While the system is restarting, during the initial screen, press and hold the PAUSE button until only the yellow light(s) illuminates.
8. As soon as the yellow light(s) come on, press "5" then "8" on the remote.
9. Put the remote down and wait. The system will proceed to the diagnostic program. This may take a few minutes to a few hours.
10. TiVo will automatically reboot when the diagnostics are complete.

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Old 11-01-2007, 08:14 AM   #20
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Tivo Won't Upgrade (Possible Other Option)

I also had this problem with my unmodified Toshiba RX-T60 Tivo.

Tivo tech support's first suggested trying the Message Settings > Restart or Reset System : 1) Restart the Tivo option. If that didn't work try the 2) Repeat Guided Setup option. Neither worked after doing these steps and connecting.

I called a second time. The guy suggested trying the Clear Program Information & To Do List option. This retains all of your recorded programs, but removes all season passes and past and present information in the To Do List. I decided to try this option since this is my primary dvr and I had over 40 hours of recorded shows I didn't want to lose.

Warning though. This step takes about an hour to do the Clear Program Information & To Do List option. When it completes, you cannot reconnect. The message tells you that there will be a service update installed at 2:00 AM. So, the only catch was that on Tuesday evening I didn't have any program information, so no recording was possible.

To make a long story short, the Clear Program Information & To Do List option worked! I just had to readd the season passes - which i had written down on a piece of paper - no big deal.

So, you might want to try the Clear Program Information & To Do List option BEFORE you try the Clear and Delete Everything option or the other options suggested in this thread (Although my next step would have been to try those steps before the Clear and Delete Everything option.)

Thanks everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by escrge
I promised an update, so here it is...

I did a complete reset where I cleared & deleted everything, then repeated the guided setup and IT WORKED!

If there really was a bad sector on the hard drive or partition, I'm guessing that the wipe had also deleted the update that was waiting. Once a new update was downloaded, the bad sector was skipped over.

Now I can see the set in the other room. And to think I almost considered paying TiVo for a replacement.

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Old 11-01-2007, 11:38 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjohnson_123
Warning though. This step takes about an hour to do the Clear Program Information & To Do List option. When it completes, you cannot reconnect. The message tells you that there will be a service update installed at 2:00 AM. So, the only catch was that on Tuesday evening I didn't have any program information, so no recording was possible.
If you had told it to restart it would have done the update right then.
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