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Old 10-19-2007, 03:20 PM   #31
bkdtv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keenanSR
Could a tuner just go bad? That would seem like a longshot to me but I guess it's possible, the S3 has been flawless since last Sept other than this recent signal problem.
I doubt it. These are pieces of silicon. They usually either work from the start or are defective and don't work [reliably] at all.
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Old 10-19-2007, 03:52 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv
I doubt it. These are pieces of silicon. They usually either work from the start or are defective and don't work [reliably] at all.
That's my take on it as well, it either works from the getgo or it doesn't work right at all. I've considered that one of the CCs may have gone bad, but then again, they're just a piece of silicon as well and in fact shouldn't have any impact on signal quality/level anyways.

Well, hopefully the "TiVo whiz-kid" will show up Sunday and have some ideas.
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Old 10-21-2007, 05:57 PM   #33
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I've also been having severe pixelation on only one of my two tuners in the TiVo HD. While I have split the cable coming in, my S3 is perfect (same split point) and one of the two tuners on my TiVoHD is fine. The other is, well, unwatchable.

Signal strength hops all over everywhere, but only on the 2nd tuner. (68 to 93 is a typical series of jumps in a 30 second period on the same channel).

First pics show the first tuner (Tuner 0),




and the last pic shows the second tuner (Tuner 1).



For tuner 1, I have uncorrected RS @ about 44 million and corrected RS at about 330 million.

Ugh.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Tuner 0 - pt 1.JPG (41.5 KB, 181 views)
File Type: jpg Tuner 0.JPG (37.3 KB, 176 views)
File Type: jpg Tuner 1.JPG (59.8 KB, 179 views)
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Last edited by gthassell : 10-21-2007 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 10-21-2007, 06:28 PM   #34
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I haven't received a call from Comcast today on whether their "TiVo whiz kid" is going to show up or not. Haven't noticed any problems yet today, but I've spent most of my time with Sunday Ticket. Great Minn/Dallas game.

If he doesn't show I'll be calling back in the AM.
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Old 10-21-2007, 07:33 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthassell
I've also been having severe pixelation on only one of my two tuners in the TiVo HD. While I have split the cable coming in, my S3 is perfect (same split point) and one of the two tuners on my TiVoHD is fine. The other is, well, unwatchable.

Signal strength hops all over everywhere, but only on the 2nd tuner. (68 to 93 is a typical series of jumps in a 30 second period on the same channel).

First pics show the first tuner (Tuner 0),




and the last pic shows the second tuner (Tuner 1).



For tuner 1, I have uncorrected RS @ about 44 million and corrected RS at about 330 million.

Ugh.
Since your signal strength indicates 100... my recommendation would be to attenuate the signal until the 'good' tuner indicates 90's and see if that helps. You might be overloading the tuner. You could add an additional 2 way splitter to knock it down 3.5db.
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Old 10-21-2007, 08:15 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthassell
I've also been having severe pixelation on only one of my two tuners in the TiVo HD. While I have split the cable coming in, my S3 is perfect (same split point) and one of the two tuners on my TiVoHD is fine. The other is, well, unwatchable.

Signal strength hops all over everywhere, but only on the 2nd tuner. (68 to 93 is a typical series of jumps in a 30 second period on the same channel).

First pics show the first tuner (Tuner 0),




and the last pic shows the second tuner (Tuner 1).



For tuner 1, I have uncorrected RS @ about 44 million and corrected RS at about 330 million.

Ugh.
I had the same issue. Tivo sent me a new box and it works fine. Must have been a manufacturing issue on some boxes.
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Old 10-21-2007, 08:49 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooper
I had the same issue. Tivo sent me a new box and it works fine. Must have been a manufacturing issue on some boxes.
How long had you had the S3 before it starting reflecting this behavior? I've had mine for over 13 mos and probably started to notice the issue after about 10-11 mos of use.
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Old 10-21-2007, 11:48 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keenanSR
How long had you had the S3 before it starting reflecting this behavior? I've had mine for over 13 mos and probably started to notice the issue after about 10-11 mos of use.
I had mine less than a month. It was probably like this from the beginning. Only affected a handful of channels, but was 100% reproducable on those channels. Note however that this seems to only be a Tivo HD issue from what I have gathered.
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Old 10-22-2007, 07:48 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthassell
I've also been having severe pixelation on only one of my two tuners in the TiVo HD. While I have split the cable coming in, my S3 is perfect (same split point) and one of the two tuners on my TiVoHD is fine. The other is, well, unwatchable.

Signal strength hops all over everywhere, but only on the 2nd tuner. (68 to 93 is a typical series of jumps in a 30 second period on the same channel).
Me too - same situation.

First tuner (tuner 0) is fine all stations, second tuner (tuner 1) has severe pixelation and wildly varying signal strength on certain stations (always the same stations). I'm using FIOS w/ 2 Motorola cable, TivoHD.

Currently on 9.1 waiting to see if 9.2 fixes the problem.
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Old 10-22-2007, 08:13 AM   #40
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For FIOS:
- Fix seems to be to attenuate the signal so that your SNR is down to 31/32 (no more than that). Even though your signal strength drops to the 60's, it's okay.

For Comcast:
- Fix is usually to get a good signal amplifier/cleaner, like the Viewsonics 8x.

In any case, the same symptoms can result from too hot (FIOS), and too weak/dirty (Comcast) a signal.
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Old 10-22-2007, 08:15 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winter
Me too - same situation.

First tuner (tuner 0) is fine all stations, second tuner (tuner 1) has severe pixelation and wildly varying signal strength on certain stations (always the same stations). I'm using FIOS w/ 2 Motorola cable, TivoHD.

Currently on 9.1 waiting to see if 9.2 fixes the problem.
I thought it was the software (9.1) as well. However got the new box, took the old Hard drive and ran a clear and delete and starting using it in the new box. No issues at all.

When I finally got to 2nd level CS at Tivo, my explanation along with are you sure it only happens on tuner 1 issued an RMA almost immediately. Clearly they have had quite a few issue with this.

EVEN before I did the clear and delete everything, I was was able to watch live TV and noticed the problem wasn't showing itself on the new box.

Fios user w/ 2 moto CC's.
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Old 10-22-2007, 11:22 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooper
I thought it was the software (9.1) as well. However got the new box, took the old Hard drive and ran a clear and delete and starting using it in the new box. No issues at all.

When I finally got to 2nd level CS at Tivo, my explanation along with are you sure it only happens on tuner 1 issued an RMA almost immediately. Clearly they have had quite a few issue with this.

EVEN before I did the clear and delete everything, I was was able to watch live TV and noticed the problem wasn't showing itself on the new box.

Fios user w/ 2 moto CC's.
Thanks. I'll try attenuators and 9.2 and if its no better then I probably try to RMA it.

I'm using an upgraded (internal) hard drive, I don't know if that will cause me problems if I try to request a swap.
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Old 10-22-2007, 12:24 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winter
Thanks. I'll try attenuators and 9.2 and if its no better then I probably try to RMA it.

I'm using an upgraded (internal) hard drive, I don't know if that will cause me problems if I try to request a swap.
Id switch the drive back to the stock and let it call home a couple times before requesting the RMA.
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Old 10-22-2007, 04:44 PM   #44
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OK - I had the Verizon tech out this Saturday. Here's what we found.

I have a 611 ONT which outputs at +17dB into an 8-way splitter which takes off 12.5dB leaving +4.5dB going out of the splitter. We tested the video signal into one of the TVs and found some errors in the video stream (there should be none). We traced that problem to the 8-way splitter. So we replaced it which eliminated the video errors.

We then tested the signal into the Tivos (I have 4 THDs) and the output was +3.2dB on 3 of them and 0dB on the fourth (the one with the longest distance from the 8-way splitter. I called Tivo HD support and they recommend the signal output at +3dB.

We tested mulitple Tivo units with both tuners on local HD channels. Most of the Tivo units had pixelation issues on both channels, some only on one channel (i could not get the Tivos to have the same channel on both tuners). However, when I change one of the channels to a non-HD local channel and one on the HD local channel, the HD local sometimes came in fine with no RS uncorrected errors. I then "switched" the channels on each tuner, with one on the local HD channel and the other on the non-local HD channel. The same thing result occurred (locaL HD channel came in fine).

BTW - One of my THD has been upgraded to 9.2 and the same problem still persists. I had tuner 1 on local HD Fox channel and tuner 2 on local HD ABC channel. Both pixelated. Yesterday, I have one tuner to local non HD and the other tuner to local HD FOX (watched the Giants game) and no pixelation occured.

I am still at a loss. I believe the issue is not Verizon related as the signal is coming in clean with no video errors and at the Tivo signal spec (+3.0dB). Unless there is an issue with some of the Cable Cards (which I do not believe is the problem) I have to surmise the issue is Tivo related.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?? I also thought the issue might be bad tuners on the THDs but I have 4 of them and all exhibit the same behavior so I think its very unlikely the tuners are bad on all 4.
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Old 10-22-2007, 05:18 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JANNINO
OK - I had the Verizon tech out this Saturday. Here's what we found.

I have a 611 ONT which outputs at +17dB into an 8-way splitter which takes off 12.5dB leaving +4.5dB going out of the splitter. We tested the video signal into one of the TVs and found some errors in the video stream (there should be none). We traced that problem to the 8-way splitter. So we replaced it which eliminated the video errors.

We then tested the signal into the Tivos (I have 4 THDs) and the output was +3.2dB on 3 of them and 0dB on the fourth (the one with the longest distance from the 8-way splitter. I called Tivo HD support and they recommend the signal output at +3dB.

We tested mulitple Tivo units with both tuners on local HD channels. Most of the Tivo units had pixelation issues on both channels, some only on one channel (i could not get the Tivos to have the same channel on both tuners). However, when I change one of the channels to a non-HD local channel and one on the HD local channel, the HD local sometimes came in fine with no RS uncorrected errors. I then "switched" the channels on each tuner, with one on the local HD channel and the other on the non-local HD channel. The same thing result occurred (locaL HD channel came in fine).

BTW - One of my THD has been upgraded to 9.2 and the same problem still persists. I had tuner 1 on local HD Fox channel and tuner 2 on local HD ABC channel. Both pixelated. Yesterday, I have one tuner to local non HD and the other tuner to local HD FOX (watched the Giants game) and no pixelation occured.

I am still at a loss. I believe the issue is not Verizon related as the signal is coming in clean with no video errors and at the Tivo signal spec (+3.0dB). Unless there is an issue with some of the Cable Cards (which I do not believe is the problem) I have to surmise the issue is Tivo related.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?? I also thought the issue might be bad tuners on the THDs but I have 4 of them and all exhibit the same behavior so I think its very unlikely the tuners are bad on all 4.
What does the Tivo indicate as signal strength and SNR on good and 'bad' tuners?
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Old 10-22-2007, 09:20 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JANNINO
AbMagFab

Where can you get these "attentuators" from? Radio Shack perhaps? It looks liek they come in different ranges. From what I've read, I should try to attentuate down 5-7 dbs from my 36-38 range to 31 db.
I got mine from www smarthome com, here:
http://www.smarthome.com/_/nav.aspx?...tenuator&pp=24

I bought 10 -3db, 10 -6db, and a couple -10db just for the heck of it. So far, I've put a -10db on the THD's, and -3db's on the S3's (although they didn't really need it, I decided to tone it down anyway).
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Old 10-22-2007, 09:21 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JANNINO
OK - I had the Verizon tech out this Saturday. Here's what we found.

I have a 611 ONT which outputs at +17dB into an 8-way splitter which takes off 12.5dB leaving +4.5dB going out of the splitter. We tested the video signal into one of the TVs and found some errors in the video stream (there should be none). We traced that problem to the 8-way splitter. So we replaced it which eliminated the video errors.

We then tested the signal into the Tivos (I have 4 THDs) and the output was +3.2dB on 3 of them and 0dB on the fourth (the one with the longest distance from the 8-way splitter. I called Tivo HD support and they recommend the signal output at +3dB.

We tested mulitple Tivo units with both tuners on local HD channels. Most of the Tivo units had pixelation issues on both channels, some only on one channel (i could not get the Tivos to have the same channel on both tuners). However, when I change one of the channels to a non-HD local channel and one on the HD local channel, the HD local sometimes came in fine with no RS uncorrected errors. I then "switched" the channels on each tuner, with one on the local HD channel and the other on the non-local HD channel. The same thing result occurred (locaL HD channel came in fine).

BTW - One of my THD has been upgraded to 9.2 and the same problem still persists. I had tuner 1 on local HD Fox channel and tuner 2 on local HD ABC channel. Both pixelated. Yesterday, I have one tuner to local non HD and the other tuner to local HD FOX (watched the Giants game) and no pixelation occured.

I am still at a loss. I believe the issue is not Verizon related as the signal is coming in clean with no video errors and at the Tivo signal spec (+3.0dB). Unless there is an issue with some of the Cable Cards (which I do not believe is the problem) I have to surmise the issue is Tivo related.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?? I also thought the issue might be bad tuners on the THDs but I have 4 of them and all exhibit the same behavior so I think its very unlikely the tuners are bad on all 4.
Again, the magic number wih FIOS seems to be around SNR, not signal strength. What is your SNR overall, and on the problem channels? If you attenuate it down so the SNR is 31/32, I'll bet your problems go away. Ignore the signal strength (which will drop to the 60's).

(This has already worked for at least 3 people, so you might want to give it a try.)
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Old 10-23-2007, 12:06 AM   #48
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Just to give some specs:

My provider is Verizon Fios in northern NJ. I have 2 motorola S-CableCARDS in each THD.

I currently have one of my THD on a local HD ABC station using TUNER 2.
- Signal strength varies all over the place (mostly in the 75-100% range but at times drops does to 46%).
- SNR also varies but mostly between 32-35dB but sometimes drops to 29dB.
- There are RS uncorrected values of 58000 in a 3 minute time frame.
- Clearly there is a ton of pixelation.

While TUNER 2 is on the local HD station, TUNER 1 is on a non HD channel
- Signal strength is steady at 100%.
- SNR steady at 37dB.
- RS Uncorrected value is 0 in a 4 hour time frame
- No pixelation occurring at all.



Now I am going to "switch" the channels on tuner 1 and 2.

TUNER 1 is on local HD channel (same as used above: 807)
- Signal strength vaies between 31-34dB
- SNR all over the place from 81-93% with drops to 46%
- RS Uncorrected value is now 35500 with a 3 minute time frame

TUNER 2 is on non HD channel
-Signal strength is 100%
-SNR is 37dB
- RS Uncorrected value is 245 in a 3 minute time frame
- No apparant picxelation even with the 245 RS Uncorrected value which has remained the same for the last minute.


I have no clue what is going on.

As you can see from above, I can switch tuners but for some reason the local HD channels come in with pixelation evern when I switch tuners.

Can this somehow be a signal issue with Verizon with only the local HD channels or could this perhaps be a Tivo issue?

My next move will be to try and attenuate the signal, but I briefly tried this before and the pixelation got worse.

I am open to any suggestion at this point.
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Old 10-23-2007, 08:11 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JANNINO
Just to give some specs:

My provider is Verizon Fios in northern NJ. I have 2 motorola S-CableCARDS in each THD.

I currently have one of my THD on a local HD ABC station using TUNER 2.
- Signal strength varies all over the place (mostly in the 75-100% range but at times drops does to 46%).
- SNR also varies but mostly between 32-35dB but sometimes drops to 29dB.
- There are RS uncorrected values of 58000 in a 3 minute time frame.
- Clearly there is a ton of pixelation.

While TUNER 2 is on the local HD station, TUNER 1 is on a non HD channel
- Signal strength is steady at 100%.
- SNR steady at 37dB.
- RS Uncorrected value is 0 in a 4 hour time frame
- No pixelation occurring at all.



Now I am going to "switch" the channels on tuner 1 and 2.

TUNER 1 is on local HD channel (same as used above: 807)
- Signal strength vaies between 31-34dB
- SNR all over the place from 81-93% with drops to 46%
- RS Uncorrected value is now 35500 with a 3 minute time frame

TUNER 2 is on non HD channel
-Signal strength is 100%
-SNR is 37dB
- RS Uncorrected value is 245 in a 3 minute time frame
- No apparant picxelation even with the 245 RS Uncorrected value which has remained the same for the last minute.


I have no clue what is going on.

As you can see from above, I can switch tuners but for some reason the local HD channels come in with pixelation evern when I switch tuners.

Can this somehow be a signal issue with Verizon with only the local HD channels or could this perhaps be a Tivo issue?

My next move will be to try and attenuate the signal, but I briefly tried this before and the pixelation got worse.

I am open to any suggestion at this point.
With signal strength at 100% you could be overloading the tuner. Note that different tuners may have slightly different characteristics. My recommendation is the same as AMF's..... attenuate! I would start with 6db and see what happens. If you dont have attenuators, try inserting a 4way splitter at the tivo. That will take it down 7db.

It may not make 'sense' but it has been shown to work.... so what do you have to lose.....
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Old 10-23-2007, 08:20 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCSIRAID
With signal strength at 100% you could be overloading the tuner. Note that different tuners may have slightly different characteristics. My recommendation is the same as AMF's..... attenuate! I would start with 6db and see what happens. If you dont have attenuators, try inserting a 4way splitter at the tivo. That will take it down 7db.

It may not make 'sense' but it has been shown to work.... so what do you have to lose.....
Isn't he saying that he gets pixelation independent of tuner and that it seems to be connected to sporadic signal loss?
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Old 10-23-2007, 08:58 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joybob
Isn't he saying that he gets pixelation independent of tuner and that it seems to be connected to sporadic signal loss?
Yes.. its not tuner specific.. and seems to be channel specific. My point is that with signal strength at 100% you may be close to an overload situation. Several folks have reported with FIOS that their similar issue was solved by signal strength reduction with a corrosponding drop in SNR (however contrary to conventional wisdom). In Jannino's case, channel 803 is driving both of his tuners nuts. With the SR Uncorrected numbers he is posting... it 'aint sporadic... its constant. He has nothing to lose and everything to gain by trying attenuation. His reported 37db SNR is something few ever report... its quite exceptional/high. That doesnt mean its wrong... but it is suspicious. Conventional wisdom would say its GREAT... but it 'aint working for Jannino. When conventional wisdom fails.... start thinking unconventionally
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Old 10-23-2007, 09:30 AM   #52
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I did attempt to attenuate one of the THDs before the Verizon tech arrived. However, as I started at -3dB and went down to -6dB, -8dB, -10db, the pixelation got worse. However, I did this before we discovered the video errors in the Verizon signal. I will try to attenuate when I get home later today and will report the results.
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