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Old 10-16-2007, 10:47 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by sinanju
Permission denied.

You may have a point, but a hat will cover that.


Try fewer words... with less tiresome...
I'll simplify it just for you:

TiVo's official response to the many 9.1 problems has been virtually non-existant and that's unacceptable to me.
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Old 10-16-2007, 10:59 PM   #92
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It wasn't virtually nonexistant, it was entirely nonexistant. They didn't acknowledge them at all. It's a very 90s way of dealing with customers; many companies these days have blogs, etc, where they interact directly with their userbase. They understand that releasing a good product doesn't guarantee mindshare and success and that while a small part of the whole, mindshare starts and ends with wacky internet enthusiasts posting on forums. TiVo's original product was so good that they generated a cohesive community almost immediately and don't realize that they've been bleeding formerly fanatical customers ever since by essentially not acknowledging their existence.

You don't release changelogs, and there's no chance of that policy changing? Well, why not? It's a DVR, not a cure for cancer.
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Old 10-16-2007, 11:22 PM   #93
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Seems to me that 9.2 is Tivo's official response to 9.1.

Tivo's only "mistake" was to release 9.1 when they should have waited a few weeks for 9.2. Hindsight is always 20/20, though.
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Old 10-16-2007, 11:32 PM   #94
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I got 9.2 today for my Series 3. No issues noticed yet...
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Old 10-16-2007, 11:44 PM   #95
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I'm seeing no difference in 30-sec skip behavior with 9.2.J. But on a positive note, I didn't have to re-enter the code.
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Old 10-16-2007, 11:59 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by moyekj
From the screenshot above: So if it wasn't obvious already from the website message it certainly means only certain approved solutions are supported.
It certainly does NOT mean that. It means it includes "support for expandable storage solutions from TiVo partners". It doesn't mean "support for expandable storage solutions from TiVo partners and no support for anything else".
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Old 10-16-2007, 11:59 PM   #97
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I'm curious. Did anyone go straight from 8.3 to 9.2? Also, is there anyone who got 9.2 that didn't use the priority software request page?
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Old 10-17-2007, 12:00 AM   #98
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It certainly does NOT mean that. It means it includes "support for expandable storage solutions from TiVo partners". It doesn't mean "support for expandable storage solutions from TiVo partners and no support for anything else".
I changed my mind and deleted my post - guess I wasn't quick enough...
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Old 10-17-2007, 12:43 AM   #99
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Has anyone found any bugs in 9.1/9.2 related to Tivo Desktop? I can transfer photos, but no video or audio.
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:12 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by TiVoPony
The 9.2 software is a Series3/TiVo HD only release, and just entered the 'test the waters' phase last night. It's going out to a small number of customers to measure the impact on the call centers. We do this with every release, it's part of the process leading to a wider, full scale rollout.
Thanks for the update Pony, its truly appreciated.

I'm afraid I have to side with the others asking for more communication about updates, patches, fixes, etc. I thought you did a pretty good job covering the bases with the short-lived TiVo HD upgrades.

If no one is assigned the task of letting people here know that you're working on a new release to address fairly wide-spread problems, that's a marketing department mistake. We don't require a lot, just keep us somewhat in the loop...it'll reduce some blood letting in the future and would be very good all around P.R. for the company.
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:23 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by wmcbrine
I'm seeing no difference in 30-sec skip behavior with 9.2.J. But on a positive note, I didn't have to re-enter the code.
9.2 DIDN'T fix the 30 second skip problem? You're still seeing the static image? Anyone else have any reports on the 30 second skip fix? I had thought people were reporting it was fixed...
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Last edited by bareyb : 10-17-2007 at 01:29 AM.
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Old 10-17-2007, 06:28 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Saturn
I've been here a WHILE and I agree with you 100%. TiVo's communication has gotten worse and worse over the years. A little forum post is all it would take "Fixes are coming soon." ... I'm in software development and our customers DEMAND those sorts of things before they upgrade.
I'm in software development too, and like me, you obviously don't make software for the mass-market. It's a bit presumptuous to expect our contract B2B experience to have any relevance to the consumer-oriented B2C experience. It doesn't. Not one bit. TiVo's communications challenges have more similarities with McDonald's selling of hamburgers to hungry consumers than it has with software being sold to companies.

So as a result, you're leaving out the half of the story where the customers string TiVo up because they give answers like "Fixes are coming soon" as you suggested. It is FAR better to say nothing than to do as you suggested.

Most companies communications with the mass-market have declined over the years, generally as a matter of containing cost. It is standard practice. You can get angry about it, but that won't change anything. Stop buying things, and get everyone else to do so, for these perceived slights, and then THAT will change something.
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Last edited by bicker : 10-17-2007 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 10-17-2007, 06:51 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn
I'll simplify it just for you:

TiVo's official response to the many 9.1 problems has been virtually non-existant and that's unacceptable to me.
Nope. You're still tiresome. No need to make any further effort on my part. I won't bother to reiterate what bicker documented so eloquently and so much more kindly than I would.
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Old 10-17-2007, 06:53 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by wmcbrine
I'm seeing no difference in 30-sec skip behavior with 9.2.J. But on a positive note, I didn't have to re-enter the code.
Odd, since it really is back to normal for me on my S3. Are you using an S3 or an HD?
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Old 10-17-2007, 06:54 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by bicker
...... TiVo's communications challenges have more similarities with McDonald's selling of hamburgers to hungry consumers than it has with software being sold to companies.........
If McDonald's sold hamburgers that make a few of their customers sick, believe me they would quickly be spending millions to communicate with their customers what they are doing about the problem.

TiVo, on the other hand, would ignore the problem publicly, work in the background to find a new meat vendor and perhaps put out a new version of the Big Mac in the meantime and tout that they added another pickle.

Oh, and by the way McDonald's makes detailed info on the contents of their products easily available on their website.

Last edited by RoyK : 10-17-2007 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 10-17-2007, 07:11 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoPony
Hello all.

Yes, I'm swamped. Sorry, but hanging out on the forums, communicating with all of you just hasn't been possible as of late. Very busy times.

TiVoJerry is out of the office at the moment (and actually, I just got back into the office). He'll be back soon.

The 9.2 software is a Series3/TiVo HD only release, and just entered the 'test the waters' phase last night. It's going out to a small number of customers to measure the impact on the call centers. We do this with every release, it's part of the process leading to a wider, full scale rollout.

It does offer official support for verified eSATA devices. As the tivo.com/expand page says...more on that later.

There are other goodies in the release too, features and bug fixes alike. Nope, we do not provide release notes. Sorry if that bothers some, but trust that the average TiVo subscriber is not into the same level of detail as folks here on the forum. We do what we can, but detailed release notes are not on the horizon. Beat the horse, but don't beat the Pony. Thx.

Don't expect to hear much out of us regarding this release for now...it's not released yet. It's just simmering...it'll be soup soon enough.

Pony
Any fixes related to Rhapsody?
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Old 10-17-2007, 07:14 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by bicker
It is FAR better to say nothing than to do as you suggested
really? what software do you work on?

I just wanted to make sure that I am not within 10 ft of your software.


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Old 10-17-2007, 07:35 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoPony
The 9.2 software is a Series3/TiVo HD only release, and just entered the 'test the waters' phase last night. It's going out to a small number of customers to measure the impact on the call centers. We do this with every release, it's part of the process leading to a wider, full scale rollout.
Pony, is it safe to say that you mean its *currently* a S3/HD only release,, but after the test phase will be made available elsewhere? The interface bugs effect the S2s as well, correct? Or do I need to spend a few hundred dollars on a HD in order to get bug fixes now?
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Old 10-17-2007, 08:16 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcbrine
I'm seeing no difference in 30-sec skip behavior with 9.2.J. But on a positive note, I didn't have to re-enter the code.
Seems like I read somewhere that if turned on in 9.1, the 30-sec skip will now persist through reboots.
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Old 10-17-2007, 08:21 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodalpho
It wasn't virtually nonexistant, it was entirely nonexistant. They didn't acknowledge them at all. It's a very 90s way of dealing with customers; many companies these days have blogs, etc, where they interact directly with their userbase. They understand that releasing a good product doesn't guarantee mindshare and success and that while a small part of the whole, mindshare starts and ends with wacky internet enthusiasts posting on forums. TiVo's original product was so good that they generated a cohesive community almost immediately and don't realize that they've been bleeding formerly fanatical customers ever since by essentially not acknowledging their existence.

You don't release changelogs, and there's no chance of that policy changing? Well, why not? It's a DVR, not a cure for cancer.
Microsoft has so many patches that they have a special day designated for releasing them each month...Patch Tuesday. Can you imagine if those were deployed with no documentation? Say what you want about Microsoft, but at least they tell you what they're (allegedly) fixing.

TiVo software is essentially the operating system for a piece of dedicated computer equipment, Linux underpinnings notwithstanding. Updates to an operating system should have a little more sunlight on it than what we're currently seeing.
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Old 10-17-2007, 08:32 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by ToddNeedsTiVo
Can you imagine if those were deployed with no documentation?
Yes. Not only can I imagine it, they do it. On the other hand, many critical hotfixes are on a request basis only and one often has to pay their support fee to get them.

MSFT is not the model you want to hold up as your example.

Last edited by sinanju : 10-17-2007 at 08:38 AM.
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Old 10-17-2007, 08:42 AM   #112
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IMO it is reasonable for us Tivo customers to expect a detailed list of changes, even if it says sometimes "various bug fixes and cosmetic tweaks" whenever a software update has completed on our boxes. I'm talking about the Update message that is sent to our boxes themselves, with the update software. They know what they did, they can and SHOULD tell us what's changed.

I do NOT think that Tivo owes us any kind of advance notice or acknowledgement of problems, unless it/they are problems which affect ALL users. In any other circumstance a notice to the general Tivo population would unnecessarily alarm some customers.
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Old 10-17-2007, 08:43 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by sinanju
MSFT is not the model you want to hold up as your example.
Fair enough. I was merely citing a casual example because their patches seem to have a lot of stuff available for reading for each one. Whether that information is actually useful to a patch-applying sysadmin is an exercise for the reader.

And those secret bat cave patches for esoteric problems that you can only obtain through a paid support call is a pretty annoying concept.

Last edited by ToddNeedsTiVo : 10-17-2007 at 09:31 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 10-17-2007, 08:52 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Laserfan
IMO it is reasonable for us Tivo customers to expect a detailed list of changes, even if it says sometimes "various bug fixes and cosmetic tweaks" whenever a software update has completed on our boxes. I'm talking about the Update message that is sent to our boxes themselves, with the update software. They know what they did, they can and SHOULD tell us what's changed.

I do NOT think that Tivo owes us any kind of advance notice or acknowledgement of problems, unless it/they are problems which affect ALL users. In any other circumstance a notice to the general Tivo population would unnecessarily alarm some customers.
There should be a place tucked away in a dusty corner of TiVo's web site, not in obvious view to the casual site visitor but known among the TCF crowd, that documents these changes when they are made.

That way the typical user need not be alarmed by verbose technospeak messages on the TiVo box itself. The enthusiast user, like many of us here, can seek out this information by visiting this TiVo page, if it existed.
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Old 10-17-2007, 09:00 AM   #115
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There should be a place tucked away in a dusty corner of TiVo's web site, not in obvious view to the casual site visitor but known among the TCF crowd, that documents these changes when they are made...
Well, that too, but still I think more information can & should be in the "Your software has been updated" messages.
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Old 10-17-2007, 09:18 AM   #116
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I'm curious. Did anyone go straight from 8.3 to 9.2? Also, is there anyone who got 9.2 that didn't use the priority software request page?
I did!

I dont usually follow this forum but when I see a new update on my Tivo, I come here to see what 'goodies' I get.

Woke up and had 9.2.j1 on my system this morning.
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Old 10-17-2007, 09:24 AM   #117
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I'm curious. Did anyone go straight from 8.3 to 9.2? Also, is there anyone who got 9.2 that didn't use the priority software request page?
I received the 9.2 update Monday night. I went straight from 8.17 to 9.2 on my Tivo HD. Nope I didn't ask for it or sign up on the priority page either.

I was not having any issues prior to 9.2 with macro blocking, pixelation or anything else. I am using 1 Mcard from Comcast in Houston which installed without problem the first time and has worked without problems for the past 2 months. I also have an UHF antenna hooked up to receive OTA digital which is still working great. I have upgraded the internal drive to 750 DB35 from Seagate.

From my perspective there is noticeable improvement in the 30 second skip and speed in the grid guide. The main menu has changed combing messages and settings.
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Old 10-17-2007, 09:54 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by bicker
I'm in software development too, and like me, you obviously don't make software for the mass-market. It's a bit presumptuous to expect our contract B2B experience to have any relevance to the consumer-oriented B2C experience. It doesn't. Not one bit. TiVo's communications challenges have more similarities with McDonald's selling of hamburgers to hungry consumers than it has with software being sold to companies.
To reiterate the Microsoft argument, even Microsoft tells us what's in each update. Granted you may have to dig to find it, and *some* details (how to reproduce) are left out for security reasons, the basics are all there. The normal joe-blow user will just see that something or other was updated and the computer was restarted. Those of us who want to can block the updates, delay their install, install at our leisure, and go get details on every single update.

Need more examples? iTunes. It isn't in your face, but there's a shortcut to "About iTunes" put in your start menu that contains at least a brief explaination of the bugs that were fixed, like this:

Quote:
iTunes 7.3.1 addresses a minor problem with iTunes 7.3 accessing the iTunes Library.
If iTunes isn't software designed for the masses, I don't know what is.

iPod updates aren't quite as forthcoming, unfortunately.

Quote:
Features of iPod Software 1.1 for iPod, iPod Software 1.1 for iPod nano:

• Support for the iPod Radio Remote
• Bug fixes

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Old 10-17-2007, 09:55 AM   #119
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Anything about a fix for the lengthy audio drops after pausing/rewinding/ff when using Dolby Digital audio???
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Old 10-17-2007, 10:00 AM   #120
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Maybe something like what Linksys does when they upgrade firmware on their products...

http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satel...=1499961879B77
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