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Old 10-07-2007, 09:50 AM   #1
Sluggo042
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TiVo Fall 2007 Update Apparently Breaks TivoToGo/Toast on the Mac

I'm reposting something here that I've already posted to the Tivo and Roxio support forums. But since this community seems to have a much bigger audience than either of those places, I thought I'd restate it here in the hopes of raising the visibility of this problem.

I received the Tivo Fall 2007 Update several days ago. Since that time, I have not been able to create DVDs from shows transferred to my Mac via the TiVo Transfer component of Roxio Toast. Program files still transfer to the Mac, although when viewed in the TiVo Transfer Library Window, the Title is garbled (the Title column shows what I believe is the unparsed file name rather than the actual show title), and no information appears in the Episode, Duration, and Channel columns.

When the "Toast It" command is invoked, Toast launches, and shows the Encoding window, but the process stalls at that point, and the progress bar shows no further progress. It sticks at 0% or 1% progress.

Nothing has changed in my Roxio installation. This problem began the day I received notice that my TiVo has been updated. I strongly suspect that TiVo has modified the file format in some fashion that Toast no longer can decode. Other posts I've read indicate that TiVo is preparing some sort of new TivoToGo service for Series 3 boxes which required a change to the format of the file metadata associated with program files. I sounds to me like this metadata change is not being handled gracefully by TivoToGo or Toast.

I do not believe this to be an isolated incident - there are others on the Roxio boards reporting this problem.

Tivo Series 2 via wireless network
Macintosh running OS X 10.4.9, and Toast 8.0.1

Doug G.
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Old 10-07-2007, 11:42 AM   #2
djliquidice
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i've updated to the latest toast and this doe snot fix it. i ahve 8.0.1x and this is still a problem.
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Old 10-07-2007, 12:15 PM   #3
Peel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggo042
I sounds to me like this metadata change is not being handled gracefully by TivoToGo or Toast.
Doug G.
Is this just happening to recordings made by TiVo after the update, or older (8.x) recordings also? If it's just new recordings it sounds like it would be a format change, but if it's also affecting older recordings, then it seems to me that the transfer process itself is the culpret.
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Old 10-07-2007, 06:51 PM   #4
Sluggo042
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peel
Is this just happening to recordings made by TiVo after the update, or older (8.x) recordings also?
It is happening to *any* recording *transferred* after the update, with no regard to when the recording was made.

The transfer TiVo-to-Mac works, and the video data is still there - the file size is as big as one would expect it to be, and you can view the video with the Roxio Toast Video Player tool with no apparent problems. In fact, a fellow on one of the other boards I posted on this problem demonstrated that you could still use Toast to generate an MPEG-4 version of the file (though this coinversion loses a bit of quality) using custom settings. So, all the A/V information is still there.

However, as displayed in the TiVo Transfer (TT) library pane, TT is not reading the file metadata properly. The Title Column shows the filename, rather than the parsed show title it displayed prior to the Update. Several columns (Episode, Duration, and Channel) show no information at all.

This suggests to me that the video file is packaged in some sort of a wrapper containing the show metadata, and that the structure of this wrapper has changed, and that the data TT expects is no longer where it used to be. When you then try to actually burn the file to DVD via Roxio Toast, it tries to encode the file, but stalls out barely into the process. Again, presumably, the wrapper change is interfering with Toast's ability to access the video data payload of the file.
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Old 10-08-2007, 08:14 AM   #5
bobconlon
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Me Too

This just happened to me too. I went on vacation and came back to a tivo update. Now I can't transfer and convert any of the shows from the past week through toast.

Has tivo responded to anyone's comments?
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Old 10-08-2007, 08:23 AM   #6
Sluggo042
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobconlon
Has tivo responded to anyone's comments?
Not to my knowledge. Though I started this thread, and its companions on the Roxio and Tivo board, late Friday hoping to consolodate the complaints about the problem. So, there's been no business hours since I threw the complaint out there. I'm kinda hoping Monday business hours will bring some sort of a response. Yeah, I'm a dreamer.

I have had one scary thought though . . . what if Roxio was aware of this problem beforehand, but needs to wait until the Tiger OS release from Apple hits the street before they'll be able to come out with a fix to Toast? Then we'll be stuck with this for another month or so? Yeouch! I hasten to say this is purely me speaking, I have no evidence this is the case.

Doug G.
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Old 10-08-2007, 09:31 AM   #7
bobconlon
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transferring files

So are most people able to still transfer the files to their computer?
Mine won't even do that. It simply says it is waiting to transfer the files and stalls out there.

Last edited by bobconlon : 10-08-2007 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 10-08-2007, 11:58 AM   #8
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no issues xferring, just converting. Using both OS X 10.4.10 and XP (latest).

this is sooooooooooooo frustrating. I'm over a day behind in processing already.
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Old 10-08-2007, 09:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggo042
It is happening to *any* recording *transferred* after the update, with no regard to when the recording was made.

The transfer TiVo-to-Mac works, and the video data is still there - the file size is as big as one would expect it to be, and you can view the video with the Roxio Toast Video Player tool with no apparent problems. In fact, a fellow on one of the other boards I posted on this problem demonstrated that you could still use Toast to generate an MPEG-4 version of the file (though this coinversion loses a bit of quality) using custom settings. So, all the A/V information is still there.

However, as displayed in the TiVo Transfer (TT) library pane, TT is not reading the file metadata properly. The Title Column shows the filename, rather than the parsed show title it displayed prior to the Update. Several columns (Episode, Duration, and Channel) show no information at all.

This suggests to me that the video file is packaged in some sort of a wrapper containing the show metadata, and that the structure of this wrapper has changed, and that the data TT expects is no longer where it used to be. When you then try to actually burn the file to DVD via Roxio Toast, it tries to encode the file, but stalls out barely into the process. Again, presumably, the wrapper change is interfering with Toast's ability to access the video data payload of the file.
We are aware of the metadata issue, that will be fixed in an updater with a tentative release schedule pointing towards the end of this month. As another poster mentions, this will be the same update that fixes Leopard related issues, but failing when burning to DVD was not expected or something we've seen here.

I'm going to check if my DVR has been updated yet and do some more testing tonight.

Can anyone else confirm this is happening with all shows TRANSFERRED since the service update, including those that were recorded previous to this update?

Thanks

Patrick @ Roxio
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Old 10-08-2007, 09:26 PM   #10
patatrox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggo042
I have had one scary thought though . . . what if Roxio was aware of this problem beforehand, but needs to wait until the Tiger OS release from Apple hits the street before they'll be able to come out with a fix to Toast? Then we'll be stuck with this for another month or so? Yeouch! I hasten to say this is purely me speaking, I have no evidence this is the case.
I can assure you this is not the case, we were working very closely with TiVo and were aware of the meta-data issues (mentioned above), but we may need a few more details about the burning issue from those in this thread before we can resolve.

Does saving to a disc image fail in the same way that burning to DVD fails?
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Last edited by patatrox : 10-08-2007 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 10-08-2007, 10:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patatrox
I can assure you this is not the case, we were working very closely with TiVo and were aware of the meta-data issues (mentioned above), but we may need a few more details about the burning issue from those in this thread before we can resolve.
Thank you for addressing my fears Re: Tiger. If you need more examples of people encountering this bug, you may want to check out the thread on this subject on the Roxio Support board, as there are several people there reporting this problem.

(Whoops, I tried to put a link for you to the Roxio thread, but this site won't let me post links because I'm a new member with insufficient posts. You'll have to get to the Roxio Support Forum on your own, and then look up showtopic=28792. Sorry about that!)


Quote:
Originally Posted by patatrox
Does saving to a disc image fail in the same way that burning to DVD fails?
Yes, saving to disc image fails in the same fashion. In fact, that's where I encountered this bug, as I usually create images rather than burning so that I can later edit the resulting video files.

Once you hit the Burn button, Toast begins the encoding process, the burn setup window shrinks to the Encoding Progress window. The process then hangs indefinitely at 0% or 1% with no further progress. Though others have reported that the process is working sporadically for them, I've not had it work once since the TiVo Fall 2007 Update. Of course, once I discovered it was broken, I've not tried it many times since.

Doug G.
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Old 10-09-2007, 01:56 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patatrox
We are aware of the metadata issue, that will be fixed in an updater with a tentative release schedule pointing towards the end of this month. As another poster mentions, this will be the same update that fixes Leopard related issues, but failing when burning to DVD was not expected or something we've seen here.
Patrick,

Many, many thanks for responding. Half the frustration of hitting a bug like this is not knowing if it is going to be addressed, or when. Knowing that Roxio is on the case helps a great deal.

I would be very happy to test any beta versions Roxio comes up with to see if they fix the bug. I'm a hardware test engineer, so I've some familiarity with systematic testing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by patatrox
Can anyone else confirm this is happening with all shows TRANSFERRED since the service update, including those that were recorded previous to this update?
To test your question, I selected a show on my TiVo recorded in July, transferred it to my Mac via TTG, and then tried to burn it in Toast. Same symptoms - the conversion hangs at 1%.

Doug G.
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Old 10-09-2007, 02:03 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggo042
Patrick,

Many, many thanks for responding. Half the frustration of hitting a bug like this is not knowing if it is going to be addressed, or when. Knowing that Roxio is on the case helps a great deal.

I would be very happy to test any beta versions Roxio comes up with to see if they fix the bug. I'm a hardware test engineer, so I've some familiarity with systematic testing.




To test your question, I selected a show on my TiVo recorded in July, transferred it to my Mac via TTG, and then tried to burn it in Toast. Same symptoms - the conversion hangs at 1%.

Doug G.
I have my DVR updated and I'll post an update here tomorrow, I couldn't bear to restart the DVR halfway through Heroes and the rest of the new Monday night lineup.

Thanks for the patience, we'll get this sorted out as soon as possible.
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Old 10-09-2007, 02:26 AM   #14
Sluggo042
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patatrox
I have my DVR updated and I'll post an update here tomorrow, I couldn't bear to restart the DVR halfway through Heroes and the rest of the new Monday night lineup.

Thanks for the patience, we'll get this sorted out as soon as possible.
Understood, I have shows like that myself. Though, sadly, it will be months before I'll have that concern with BSG.

I'm sure everyone will be happy to hear any updates on progress you might be able to let us in on. Thanks!

Doug G.
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Old 10-09-2007, 09:51 AM   #15
shulcslt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patatrox
We are aware of the metadata issue, that will be fixed in an updater with a tentative release schedule pointing towards the end of this month. As another poster mentions, this will be the same update that fixes Leopard related issues, but failing when burning to DVD was not expected or something we've seen here.

I'm going to check if my DVR has been updated yet and do some more testing tonight.

Can anyone else confirm this is happening with all shows TRANSFERRED since the service update, including those that were recorded previous to this update?

Thanks

Patrick @ Roxio
I've transferred several shows since the update - some I've been able to burn, some not. Not sure that all the successful burns were recorded before the update - I thought not, but wasn't too concerned when I did it.
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Old 10-09-2007, 02:06 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patatrox
I can assure you this is not the case, we were working very closely with TiVo and were aware of the meta-data issues (mentioned above), but we may need a few more details about the burning issue from those in this thread before we can resolve.

Does saving to a disc image fail in the same way that burning to DVD fails?
Just transferred two shows from one of my TiVos. One from yesterday and one PRIOR to the update.
Both encoded properly.

Then tried transferring another show, from yesterday. That wouldn't encode.

So, looks like SOME shows, post-update, WILL encode - others not.
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Old 10-09-2007, 02:34 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggo042
Understood, I have shows like that myself. Though, sadly, it will be months before I'll have that concern with BSG.

I'm sure everyone will be happy to hear any updates on progress you might be able to let us in on. Thanks!

Doug G.
I'm more of an Atlantis fan myself.
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Old 10-09-2007, 02:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shulcslt
Just transferred two shows from one of my TiVos. One from yesterday and one PRIOR to the update.
Both encoded properly.

Then tried transferring another show, from yesterday. That wouldn't encode.

So, looks like SOME shows, post-update, WILL encode - others not.
I've been able to replicate the problem now, thanks to the cast of Scrubs.

I'll keep you updated as I find out more details .....
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Old 10-09-2007, 03:53 PM   #19
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Thanks for your help.
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Old 10-09-2007, 08:35 PM   #20
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Just wanted to put my two cents in...

I always know when I'm having any software issues that there is a good chance someone else is as well, and that I'll find an answer on a forum.

Anyways, exporting to iPod/iPhone format also hangs at 0% infinitely for shows recorded both before and after the Fall 2007 update.

Cheers to the hardworking programmers,
Anne
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Old 10-09-2007, 09:01 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by anniegreens
I always know when I'm having any software issues that there is a good chance someone else is as well, and that I'll find an answer on a forum.

Anyways, exporting to iPod/iPhone format also hangs at 0% infinitely for shows recorded both before and after the Fall 2007 update.

Cheers to the hardworking programmers,
Anne
the bug is for shows transfered after the update. boy each day puts me behind processing shows. My poor MBP will be crying when it sees the huge queue of work
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Old 10-09-2007, 09:27 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djliquidice
the bug is for shows transfered after the update. boy each day puts me behind processing shows. My poor MBP will be crying when it sees the huge queue of work
It's not ALL shows transferred OR recorded after the update. Some shows recorded after the update WILL finish - others not. Haven't been able to identify a pattern, but have verifed this several times.
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Old 10-10-2007, 07:15 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patatrox
I'll keep you updated as I find out more details .....
A question if I might, Patatrox.

I've got a lot of material backing up on the TiVo because I can't encode it to DVD. If I don't figure out some sort of temporary solution, I'm going to have to start chucking things overboard unwatched, which I'd rather not have to do.

I was thinking that since the files seem to be transferring ok via Tivo Transfer (TT), that perhaps a post-fix Toast will be able to read files regardless of if they were transferred pre- or post-Update. If that's going to be the case, I could start moving stuff off my Tivo to temporary parking on a spare drive, and hold them there until the Toast fix comes out.

On the other hand, if the fix is implemented in TT by a tweak to the transfer process itself, then perhaps the only way to recover the files will be for the files to pass through the transfer process to receive the fix tweak. In which case, I should keep anything I really want on the TiVo prior to the fix release, and I'll be forced to make some triage dumps.

Do you know enough about the solution yet to be able to say how the Toast fix is likely to work?

Many thanks for your efforts on this problem!

Doug G.
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Old 10-10-2007, 05:35 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djliquidice
the bug is for shows transfered after the update. boy each day puts me behind processing shows. My poor MBP will be crying when it sees the huge queue of work
You and me both my friend....
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Old 10-10-2007, 05:39 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Sluggo042
A question if I might, Patatrox.
On the other hand, if the fix is implemented in TT by a tweak to the transfer process itself, then perhaps the only way to recover the files will be for the files to pass through the transfer process to receive the fix tweak. In which case, I should keep anything I really want on the TiVo prior to the fix release, and I'll be forced to make some triage dumps.

Do you know enough about the solution yet to be able to say how the Toast fix is likely to work?

Many thanks for your efforts on this problem!

Doug G.
The most likely, and I stress likely as this has not been confirmed, scenario will be that an update to both Toast and Popcorn will allow you to export recordings that you are transferring off right now. I do not believe a change to the transfer process will impact this. (of course, I've been wrong before)
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Old 10-10-2007, 05:41 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shulcslt
It's not ALL shows transferred OR recorded after the update. Some shows recorded after the update WILL finish - others not. Haven't been able to identify a pattern, but have verifed this several times.

for me - it's all shows dude. i've tried to see if Tivo to go for windows was the culprit, but it doesn't matter how the file gets to toast.

My typical path: T2G on XP -> OS X for processing
Alternate:
T2G on OS X -> Processing

both paths fail for me
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Old 10-10-2007, 06:04 PM   #27
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I wonder when tivo will support AAC -iTunes store bought music and video podcasts. Seems like they don't care about the Mac anymore. I returned my Series 3 because i had issues with music playing and photos showing up on my tivo even though everything was correct after a tivo update (worked fine prior). They kept sending me to Roxio for the solution but Roxio sent me back saying they don't know why i was sent to them in the first place. Seriously tech support at tivo is worse than Comcast and that is saying a lot. Its ironic because i wanted to join the Tivo bandwagon to avoid such issues and tus was willing to pay the $1000 entry price.
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Old 10-10-2007, 06:19 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netguru7
I wonder when tivo will support AAC -iTunes store bought music and video podcasts. Seems like they don't care about the Mac anymore. I returned my Series 3 because i had issues with music playing and photos showing up on my tivo even though everything was correct after a tivo update (worked fine prior). They kept sending me to Roxio for the solution but Roxio sent me back saying they don't know why i was sent to them in the first place. Seriously tech support at tivo is worse than Comcast and that is saying a lot. Its ironic because i wanted to join the Tivo bandwagon to avoid such issues and tus was willing to pay the $1000 entry price.
I deal with folks at TiVo on an almost daily basis, I promise you that they care about the Mac. I can't really comment on the photo/music issues with the TiVo Desktop for Mac application though as that is absolutely handled by TiVo themselves.

I haven't tried sharing photos since the service update, but I'll do that tonight and see how it goes on my side.
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Old 10-10-2007, 06:32 PM   #29
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Could Quality of Recording by causing burn hangs?

I haven't had the time to test this out but could the quality of the recording be causing the burn process to hang? Without knowing the contents of the metadata it's hard to see how but it seems to be the pattern of "some shows burn and and some don't" could be related to record quality.

Just a theory,
Ken
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:11 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmitchell
I haven't had the time to test this out but could the quality of the recording be causing the burn process to hang? Without knowing the contents of the metadata it's hard to see how but it seems to be the pattern of "some shows burn and and some don't" could be related to record quality.

Just a theory,
Ken
eh, unless the way the shows are recorded are different - which i doubt being that the compression is all hardware. directshowdump has no issues remuxing the .tivo to .mpg. this is a roxio/tivo thing
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