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Old 09-07-2007, 02:50 PM   #121
mikeyts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac 5
Who knows what the reasoning is, but nonetheless, that's how many cable company DVRs work.
Oh, I believe you, but I think that they break the intention of the copy protection mode.
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Old 09-07-2007, 02:53 PM   #122
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Clarification on TTCB

I need to clarify something, as I may have unintentionally miscommunicated something regarding TiVoToComeBack.

TiVoToComeBack will initially support HD content originally recorded on a TiVo DVR. It will not support HD content from other sources at this time.

Sorry for any confusion!

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Old 09-07-2007, 02:56 PM   #123
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TiVoPony,

This thread is indeed full of great news.

Can you also clarify or give us any hints as to the performance / transfer times for digital SD and digital HD to / from PCs, if using wired ethernet?

I'm just hoping that it is significantly faster that what we see with the S2s.

Thanks,

-Todd
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Old 09-07-2007, 02:56 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagraves
I have read through this thread, but have not seen an answer to the e-sata / external storage question relative to the Series 3s I own. Will this functionality be added at the same time? I, too, heard that these issues were all interrelated to the existence of cable cards. Thanks...
Sorry, that's because this discussion has to do with TTG & MRV.

I don't have anything to share today regarding eSATA.

Cheers,
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Old 09-07-2007, 02:57 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthassell
TiVoPony,

This thread is indeed full of great news.

Can you also clarify or give us any hints as to the performance / transfer times for digital SD and digital HD to / from PCs, if using wired ethernet?

I'm just hoping that it is significantly faster that what we see with the S2s.

Thanks,

-Todd
The intent of the thread was to let you guys know it's coming, not to spec it out for ya.

It's coming. You'll see it when it's ready.

Oh yeah...it's almost ready.

Pony
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Old 09-07-2007, 02:59 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoPony
I need to clarify something, as I may have unintentionally miscommunicated something regarding TiVoToComeBack.

TiVoToComeBack will initially support HD content originally recorded on a TiVo DVR. It will not support HD content from other sources at this time.

Sorry for any confusion!

Pony
Thanks for the clarification Pony, it's an important one for some of us... [wahhh HD home movies idea goes bye-bye, let alone MPG4 re-encodes to save space ] :-(

Glad to hear "initially" and "at this time" at least, there's hope ... and ANY MRV/TTG/TTCB is great great news!

Now I still have a reason to sign up as beta-tester Any way to specify what aspect's I'd prefer/be able to beta-test? assuming you don't have enough already?
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Old 09-07-2007, 03:00 PM   #127
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Pony, I know you're getting slammed with questions but can you clarify MRV with copy protected shows? Can they be copied S3<->S3? Can they be moved S3<->S3? And if not, do you think you'll be able to get a solution for that at some point in the future that would be acceptable to CableLabs? (i.e. is it something you've even thought about/would be willing to work towards)

Thanks for all the great news.
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Old 09-07-2007, 03:33 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac 5
What rodalpho describes is the way my cable company is, too. What you say is of course true for the local/must-carry channels, but it seems to be extremely common for cable companies to set all the other channels to copy-once, as people in the AVSForum HD Recorders forum can attest. And I suspect that is their policy. Even if it's not, I've never known my cable company to fix anything unless legally required to do so.
That's exactly right. For TWC NYC, every channel is CCI 0x2 copy once except for SD/HD locals. Every basic cable channel is 0x2, every extended cable channel, every movie channel, everything, everything is 0x2.

In other words, these features will be effectively worthless. No MRV or TTG for us, even though they work on S2s with the same content.
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Old 09-07-2007, 03:38 PM   #129
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Old 09-07-2007, 03:42 PM   #130
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Mrv!!!

Great news and thanks for sharing! I want to get a Series 3 or THD, but without MRV, my wife says don't get it. She and my youngest daughter are BIG TiVo users, and MRV is a must for them.

The day MRV is released is the day we buy a new TiVo!

(Mark me down also on requesting Mac features.)

Last edited by jwdawso : 09-07-2007 at 03:44 PM. Reason: forgot about my Mac!
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Old 09-07-2007, 03:45 PM   #131
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I'll be swapping out my two S2DT's for two TiVoHD's!!!
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Old 09-07-2007, 03:50 PM   #132
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It stinks that this change to more and more digital programming we're going through is most likely the end of universal TTG and MRV... :/ for those of you thinking of switching to THD from a S2, that's something to consider (IMO).
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Old 09-07-2007, 04:40 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodalpho
That's exactly right. For TWC NYC, every channel is CCI 0x2 copy once except for SD/HD locals. Every basic cable channel is 0x2, every extended cable channel, every movie channel, everything, everything is 0x2.

In other words, these features will be effectively worthless. No MRV or TTG for us, even though they work on S2s with the same content.
Unfortunately, the cable system has the right to do this to anything not in the core basic services tier (the 20 or so channels that you get in the minimum level of service to which you can subscribe and to which you must subscribe to get anything else). Typically these days the only natively digital channels in that range are local DTV rebroadcasts (there may be digital simulcasts of all the rest, but those can be protected and encrypted so long as the analog versions are in the clear).

I don't know why you'd call TTG and MRV worthless, though. In my case, 90% or more of everything that I record is from the over-the-air networks. Do you mean to say that you don't record any substantial amount of network television?
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Old 09-07-2007, 05:09 PM   #134
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TivoPony, just to clarify, does this mean we will be able to finally watch our SD sourced Divx & Xvid files on our S3s/HDs using the Desktop 2.5 Plus software? Will we still have to pay the upgrade fee of $25 for this avi playability or is there any chance this feature will be a standard feature of a future version of Desktop? Please!!!
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Old 09-07-2007, 05:22 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyts
I don't know why you'd call TTG and MRV worthless, though. In my case, 90% or more of everything that I record is from the over-the-air networks. Do you mean to say that you don't record any substantial amount of network television?
I can't speak for rodalpho, but I'm about the opposite of you - only about 10% of what I record is from over-the-air networks. And during the summer, it's more like 0%.
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Old 09-07-2007, 05:24 PM   #136
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I don't see what the fuss is about...

I've been holding off on buying three S3 or THD boxes because they're useless to me without MRV. I've explored every option for recording HD and distributing to multiple TVs, and with the possible exception of the new Cablecard equipped PCs, there really is no viable way to do this. So, the restriction on sharing copy protected shows is a major negative, because the Tivo would then not be giving me anything that I can't get from many other platforms (since recording HD locals is already possible with an ATSC or QAM tuner or Firewire from a STB). Tivo, it should be pretty obvious that people who are spending several hundred to several thousand dollars on DVRs equipped with Cablecard probably enjoy TV enough to subscribe to premium channels that require the Cablecards in the first place. So, MRV limited to non-copy protected channels is basically no MRV, and worthless.

While I'm not happy about the whole thing, I would be OK if as speculated one copy could reside on the recording Tivo and stream the recording to another box, like Fios Home Media DVR. I'm not much of a TTG user, so that would be enough for me. Without this feature, though, MRV is basically a waste of time.

Would all you guys congratulating Tivo really be enthused if the only thing you could transfer was OTA?
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Old 09-07-2007, 05:31 PM   #137
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Can someone explain this feature to me? Why doesn't it just stream between boxes, instead of copying?

So if I'm downstairs and have something recorded upstairs, why do I have to copy it and wait for that to finish rather than just have it stream to the box so I can watch it right away?

How long does it typically take over a gigabit network to copy a 1 hour HD tv show?
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Old 09-07-2007, 05:37 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brams
Would all you guys congratulating Tivo really be enthused if the only thing you could transfer was OTA?
Note that it's not only OTA channels that would be eligible at least for my cable company. Take a look at my spreadsheet in my sig and you will see the vast majority of channels have CCI=0x0, so non-OTA digital channels such as USA, SciFi etc. which are encrypted but have CCI=0x0 would also presumably be candidates for MRV/TTG. The only ones that have CCI=0x02 are the premium channels which I don't subscribe to anyway. So to me this is extremely useful capability and something that I cannot do with PC tuners (since USA, SciFi etc. are encrypted). Even if that weren't the case and only the locals were eligible to me that would still be extremely useful as like other posters most of my recordings are from the major networks anyway. For premium type content netflix/blockbuster suits me just fine so I don't see a need to subscribe to cable for that kind of content.
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Old 09-07-2007, 05:41 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by rickeame
So if I'm downstairs and have something recorded upstairs, why do I have to copy it and wait for that to finish rather than just have it stream to the box so I can watch it right away?
Actually the way it works (at least for the S2 platform) you don't have to wait for the copy to finish before you start watching - you can start watching as soon as the transfer begins. Of course for HD transfers depending how long transfers take you may have to wait longer for enough content to be transferred so you don't catch up with the transfer point while watching, but you don't have to wait for the entire transfer to complete before you start watching.

I also own a bunch of ReplayTVs which do use streaming method (instead of copying) for viewing content of remote ReplayTVs. The problem with that approach (at least the way RTV implements it) is you have to have a very clean network transfer as any networking glitches result in broken up playback since the RTVs don't do enough content buffering to get around the problem. Also for HD streaming you have to have at least 19Mbps or so throughput to assure no playback issues - so in a sense the way that Tivo implements it as a whole copy is perhaps more reliable since you can wait long enough for a large buffer to build up before starting to watch and avoid any playback glitches.
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Old 09-07-2007, 05:42 PM   #140
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It copies the show, but you can start playback of the show immediately. (With the caveat that there probably won't be a high enough transfer speed to skip commercials if you start playback immediately, and for some people, their transfers aren't even fast enough to play the recording in real time.) So it "streams" in the sense that you can watch it in real time if your network is fast enough, but you're actually getting a copy of the recording.
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Old 09-07-2007, 05:46 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by StuffOfInterest
With the reduced hard disk size in the TiVo HD, it would be nice if TiVo To Go would support auto-push of programs to a computer rather than deleting schedulced recorded programs when in-box disk capacity maxes out. I'd much rather be in a situation of pulling the video back from the PC than having it disappear all together if I happen to record 21 hours of (non-protected) HD content.
An eSATA drive will fix this. I know we all want a server farm to store hundreds of movies in HD, but that's not necessarily Tivo'sd game plan,

...yet.
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Old 09-07-2007, 05:50 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by moyekj
Take a look at my spreadsheet in my sig and you will see the vast majority of channels have CCI=0x0, so non-OTA digital channels such as USA, SciFi etc. which are encrypted but have CCI=0x0 would also presumably be candidates for MRV/TTG.
If only cable companies everywhere were so kind!
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Old 09-07-2007, 05:55 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by brams
...Would all you guys congratulating Tivo really be enthused if the only thing you could transfer was OTA?
Yes, this guy would, because that's the vast majority of the HD that I TiVo.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:02 PM   #144
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Yes, this guy would, because that's the vast majority of the HD that I TiVo.
This may not matter to you either, but just remember that it's not just HD, but anything on a digital channel, whether SD or HD.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:22 PM   #145
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Yes, this guy would, because that's the vast majority of the HD that I TiVo.
I second that. I pretty much watch very little that's not HD and most of the HD material that I'm interested in is OTA. The only stuff that I watch that's not OTA are some premium cable series (currently only Dexter and Californication), premium cable movies and TNT's The Closer. The only non-HD programming that I watch are a couple of series on Sci Fi (the Stargate series and Battlestar Galactica), matches on The Tennis Channel, The Simpsons, Family Guy and American Dad.

During the season, I watch the 3 CSI series, Smallville, Heroes. NCIS, L&O, L&O: SVU, ER, Boston Legal, Medium, House and Bones. There are 3 or 4 new shows that look promising. With all of the HD over-the-air stuff that I watch, I don't have time to watch any of the rest of digital cable. Certainly, the 13 hours/week of OTA that I currently watch make TTG potentially useful.
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:57 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Brainiac 5
If only cable companies everywhere were so kind!
I don't know if it is a question of being kind. The decision to copy protect content should lie with the content provider, not the distributor (cable company in this case) so I think my cable company is simply correctly passing on the flag as set by the content providers without modifying. Of course we do know the cable company has the ability to set the flag if they so choose but I don't see how it benefits them to do so especially since channels are encrypted anyway. In some cases (from AVSForum threads) users have been able to get things changed in their local headend since the problem turned out to be a mistake rather than an intentional thing. My guess is many Tivo owners will be fighting these battles with their local headends once MRV/TTG is released (and our assumptions hold true that all CCI=0x0 content is eligible).
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Old 09-07-2007, 06:59 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by moyekj
I don't know if it is a question of being kind. The decision to copy protect content should lie with the content provider, not the distributor (cable company in this case) so I think my cable company is simply correctly passing on the flag as set by the content providers without modifying. Of course we do know the cable company has the ability to set the flag if they so choose but I don't see how it benefits them to do so especially since channels are encrypted anyway. In some cases (from AVSForum threads) users have been able to get things changed in their local headend since the problem turned out to be a mistake rather than an intentional thing.
It benefits them by reducing the differentiation between their DVR and TiVo's.
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Old 09-07-2007, 07:14 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by TiVoPony
Hey guys,

I know you've been anxiously awaiting TiVoToGo and Multi-Room Viewing on your Series3 and TiVoHD boxes.

I wanted to let you know that development has been progressing smoothly, and all is well. You can expect TTG & MRV to be available for Series3 and TiVoHD this November.

These features will provide support for video transfers between Series3 & Series2 systems and between a Series3/Series2 system and a PC. High Definition content will not be supported for transfer or playback on a Series2 system (Series2's just can't play HD), and copy-protected High Def or Standard Def content cannot be transferred (same as our current Series2 products). The aptly yet unofficially named TiVoToComeBack also will be supported, including HD content (originally recorded on a TiVo DVR).

It's not far off guys.

Pony

ps - If you've been beta testing this stuff, you have a beta forum to participate in. Shoo! Get out of here! Remember the first rule of beta club...

[edit - clarified that HD TTCB is initially for content originally recorded on a TiVo DVR, not HD content from other sources]
This is incredibly exciting. Now my Tivos go from 6 Series 2s and 1 Series 3 to 6 and 2.

Great Job Tivo!!!!! And thanks Tivo Pony for the early Christmas gift.

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Old 09-07-2007, 07:20 PM   #149
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Has anyone done a definitive TiVoHD vs. Series3 comparison? I don't care much for the extra delay in the graphics pipeline of the TiVoHD, though if the reported chipset-based transcoding capability of the TiVoHD is ultimately going to be used to provide transcoding from HD to SD when transferring to Series 2 systems, I might consider getting one instead of getting another Series3. On the other hand, I really like having the front panel display of show names that are recording so I'm not sure the transcoding possibilitry in the future is even a consideration -- after all, I probably will eventually get rid of the Series2DT I have to keep things 100% HD-capable anyway.

I just wish there were clearer choices to make here.
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Old 09-07-2007, 07:24 PM   #150
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Now my Tivos go from 6 Series 2s and 1 Series 3 to 6 and 2.
Eeeeeyow! And I thought we were addicted...clearly we barely hold amateur status!!
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