TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-02-2008, 06:56 PM   #151
Icarus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Upcountry Maui, Hawaii
Posts: 339
More new HD channels showed up in a tivo update (with a twist).

They finally straightened out the programming info/channel names for the previously added HDs, but last week they added several new channels that I'm not getting on my S3 (recall that as far as I know, we don't yet have SDV on Maui.)

1329 APLHD (Animal Planet)
1331 TLCHD
1333 DSCHD
1337 SCIHD

I'm not getting any programming on those channels on the S3, but the guide data is there.

Also they added:

84 KHETDT
86 KITVDT

And I'm also not getting anything on those channels.

I need to go check the OTW HD-DVR in the living room to see if there's anything there on these channels.

Update: The 4 HD channels are all listed in the guide on the OTW HD DVR and the programming is there, but there's no guide data. 84 and 86 don't come in on the HD-DVR either and aren't listed in the guide. Hmmmm ... I wonder if the SDV rollout is starting on Maui. Is there some way to tell other than the loss of all non-broadcast and non-premium HDs (which hasn't happened yet)?

Fortunately SPs seem to record from the lowest numbered channel, so it didn't interfere with any recordings. I did uncheck 84 and 86 from "channels I receive".

-David

Last edited by Icarus : 03-02-2008 at 07:07 PM.
Icarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2008, 07:23 PM   #152
cableguy763
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by clark_kent View Post
One of my friends just got a new OTW STB with cablecard... we're going to take the card out to play... we'll let you know what we find and how the card likes being inside something else...
Have fun playing with the bill for tampering with the box. Error codes are generated within the box that will tell the cable co that it has been tampered with.
cableguy763 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 04:04 PM   #153
clark_kent
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
More new HD channels showed up in a tivo update (with a twist).

...

84 KHETDT
86 KITVDT

And I'm also not getting anything on those channels.

Update... 84 and 86 don't come in on the HD-DVR either and aren't listed in the guide. Hmmmm ... I wonder if the SDV rollout is starting on Maui. Is there some way to tell other than the loss of all non-broadcast and non-premium HDs (which hasn't happened yet)?

-David
I don't know where SDV is and is not deployed, but I can tell you that 84 and 86 are NOT in SDV (at least in my area, last night) since I could readily receive both channels on clearQAM with a QAM tuner USB'd to my computer...

My guess as why 84/86 don't come in: Oceanic is blocking those channels in the (Oceanic) STB... and in case of CableCARD users, Oceanic can easily send a channels map list to the CableCARD that excludes those channels...

My thoughts on the good old "NOT AVAILABLE FOR CABLECARD" issue: perhaps the real reason that many of those channels are NOT available is NOT because all those channels are SDV but simply because Oceanic is sending out a channels map that specifically excludes those channels from the map/list and therefore the CableCARD is not "authorized" to decode those channels...

Don't forget, Oceanic hates CableCARD's and really does NOT want to support CableCARD customers... after all, with CableCARD, there is no $$$ in On$$$Demand and there is no $$$ in Pay$$$Per$$$View!!! AND, for Oceanic, it's all about the $$$ and the customer!!!

Everything else Oceanic tells CableCARD customers is smoke and mirrors...
clark_kent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 05:01 PM   #154
s1_junkie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 40
A CableCard story:

It has been a busy week here at TiVo Vigilante Towers. On Monday evening my TiVo HD died, a call to TiVo on Tuesday - it is still under warranty (lite), $50 and TiVo send me a replacement. By Thursday morning the box was at my door, which is about as fast as you can get anything to South Kona. So it was a pain that this happened but great customer service from TiVo. TiVo tell me my CableCard will have to be associated with its new host and to call my cable company.

Plugged the new TiVo in, moved the CableCard from my old HD. Up pops the grey screen saying call 643 2337 to activate service, the screen contains the ID numbers of the card and the host. I call…..

Half an hour later I get a call back, and explain. The voice says: “There is a note in your record: ‘All CableCard issues to be directed to corporate, call 1-866-774-9098’”. I call…

Voicemail says it belongs to Andrew Long, I leave a message explaining. A couple of hours go by, no response – so I Google ”Andrew Long time warner”. Perhaps he is: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/5/499/615 - “Assistant Chief Counsel, Regulatory at Time Warner Cable”. TWC has promoted its lawyers to customer service. New York City Area, his work day is over. Wait till Friday a.m., I call…..

A silver tongued city slicker lawyer answers, I ask his position at TWC he responds “a lawyer” – I assume he is indeed Assistant Chief Counsel. He figures out this is a technical issue and will get somebody to call me. We have a short polite conversation, he knows of my FCC filings, I ask about Tuning Resolvers. I heard him say that Tuning Adapters will be available in Q2, TWC has still to decide on price. This is the first time I have heard TWC acknowledge that it will make these available, although TiVo has said so. I told him in my opinion TWC had handled this situation poorly.

Friday noon, OTW calls, I explain, give them the Host and Card numbers and continue guided setup. My TiVo now shows digital channels, but not Showtime or Encore to which I subscribe (I get the ‘activate service’ grey screen). I call…

OTW works hard “completed upgrade at head end, and some additional work with cable card” still Showtime and Encore don’t work. OTW at my house for almost 3 hours on Saturday, tried a new CableCard, tried an OTW box, can’t find the problem. OTW seems to be trying hard, but without a result it is not clear.

It is Monday, my TiVo is still without Showtime and Encore. Anybody got any suggestions?

Last edited by s1_junkie : 03-04-2008 at 12:45 AM.
s1_junkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 05:11 PM   #155
Icarus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Upcountry Maui, Hawaii
Posts: 339
Quote:
The voice says: “There is a note in your record: ‘All CableCard issues to be directed to corporate, call 1-866-774-9098’”.
Wow .. incredible. Maybe you should call Mr. Long back since he seems to be your personal OTW contact.

-David
Icarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 06:39 PM   #156
clark_kent
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1_junkie View Post
A CableCard story:

It has been a busy week here at TiVo Vigilante Towers. On Monday evening my TiVo HD died...
Just curious if you could share some info on your cablecard:

1. Is it a Multi-Stream or Single Stream?
2. What specific model number is it?
3. What's the date on the card?
4. What's the hardware (HW) version?
5. What's the firmware version?

It would have been interesting to compare the channel list before and after OTW did the "activating/paring/authorizing" phone call thing that the cablecard screen told you that you "must" do...
clark_kent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 07:50 PM   #157
HiKent
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1_junkie View Post

The voice says: “There is a note in your record: ‘All CableCard issues to be directed to corporate, call 1-866-774-9098’”. I call…
S1--

Have you ever questioned why we can't get the music & radio channels? If have assumed they block them as other TWC locations report no problem. It would seem that we should at least get NOAA radio -- public safety and such.

We have *no* radio reception in our valley. I'd love to have my radio/music back.
HiKent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 12:17 AM   #158
s1_junkie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by clark_kent View Post
Just curious if you could share some info on your cablecard:

1. Is it a Multi-Stream or Single Stream?
2. What specific model number is it?
3. What's the date on the card?
4. What's the hardware (HW) version?
5. What's the firmware version?

It would have been interesting to compare the channel list before and after OTW did the "activating/paring/authorizing" phone call thing that the cablecard screen told you that you "must" do...
OTW replaced my card on Sat, current card is:

Multistream
S.A. PKM800
4/24/07
HW 1.2
"F"

Yes, I wish I had checked out the status more before I called. Hiho.

Today a TiVo support person showed me a site that explains what some of those CableCard screens should look like. It is excellent:

http://tivosupport2.instancy.com/Lau...1-d8cd0d5c0824

Turns out my card is in Mmode, and not paired - and I can now point to why I know. Time to talk to local OTW folks again...
s1_junkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 12:27 AM   #159
s1_junkie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiKent View Post
S1--

Have you ever questioned why we can't get the music & radio channels? If have assumed they block them as other TWC locations report no problem. It would seem that we should at least get NOAA radio -- public safety and such.

We have *no* radio reception in our valley. I'd love to have my radio/music back.
I have to say the OTW managers dont listen to me, they just develop strategies to deal with me. That said the "Not avaliable with CableCard" tag on the OTW website is also attached to the radio stations. So if we ever get that addressed, the radio stations should be included. I rememeber your post from last year, if I get the chance (and I dont blow it) I'll try.
s1_junkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 12:53 AM   #160
s1_junkie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
Wow .. incredible. Maybe you should call Mr. Long back since he seems to be your personal OTW contact.

-David

I wish. My guess is he is a lot smarter than me, I'll end up inserting my foot in my mouth, the less contact the better.

And, yes I think these events are incredible too.
s1_junkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 04:40 PM   #161
clark_kent
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawaiiTivoLover View Post
1. it's a single stream card
2. pkm600
3. no date i can see
4. how do i tell?
5. how do i tell?
6. tried both resets.

hope it helps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1_junkie View Post
OTW replaced my card on Sat, current card is:

Multistream
S.A. PKM800
4/24/07
HW 1.2
"F"

...
The cablecard in my friends box:

Multi-Stream
SA PowerKEY Model PKM802
3/24/07
HW 1.2
"F"

I don't know anything about SA cablecards to comment on any difference between a PKM800 and a PKM802, hopefully, someone knowledgeable can comment...

So, we took the cablecard and a TiVoHD to a safe house and tried our best to make sure that we were not followed... the cable service at the safe house is "standard analog" level of service... plugged the cablecard into a TiVoHD that has never had a cablecard in it... got a grey screen message with instructions to call Oceanic... ignored the message and did the guided setup... it looks like the guide data is all there for "all" Oceanic channels including analog/digital/HD/Premium/On-demand/PPV... all the analog channels came in fine... all the local HD channels came in fine and they all had guide data... most of the channels that are listed as being "available with" cablecard came in fine... none of the Premium/On-demand/PPV came in (as expected since they are encrypted) but they did have guide data...

There was no "pairing" or "authorizing" or "hit" from Oceanic, but, obviously, this particular cablecard has been in the "Oceanic system" so what if anything that has to do with it's level of "functionality" vs a "virgin" cablecard (from the open market) is uncertain...

Obviously, we also do not know if the cablecard acquired by HawaiiTivoLover actually "works" and is fully functional or is perhaps defective or crippled in someway...

Acquire (on the open market) a "new" or fully functional and "working" PKM800 or PKM802, would still make for an interesting experiment... in my humble opinion, I think there is a reasonable chance that you could get all your local (unencrypted) HD channels WITH guide data, assuming that is all you wanted from your cable...

Maybe someone will try this on a Motorola system with a Motorola M-Card... I don't know why, but my expectation on the likely hood of this experiment working (getting guide data for local HD) is higher with a multi-stream (SA or Moto) card then a single stream card.
clark_kent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 05:51 PM   #162
cableguy763
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 525
A powerkey 800 card is the card that is for UDCP boxes, 802 is for cable co boxes. I can't see how they differ.
cableguy763 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 07:28 PM   #163
clark_kent
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by cableguy763 View Post
A powerkey 800 card is the card that is for UDCP boxes, 802 is for cable co boxes. I can't see how they differ.
Pardon me for being suspect of what the cable industry says and does...

Are you saying that the "label" is truly the only difference between a PowerKEY 800 and 802... please don't misunderstand, but could you comment on how you know this...

Why would SA make two different versions of the same multi-stream card and have one version specifically for UDCP (TiVo type) boxes and a different version specifically for there own box??? After all, it's not the cablecard that makes any box unidirectional or by-directional... given the cable industries "practice" and love for cable cards, it would not surprise me to find more of a difference then just the label.
clark_kent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 08:50 PM   #164
s1_junkie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 40
Another CableCard story:

Last September I filed 3 complaints with the State D.C.C.A.; these were then passed on to OTW. On Saturday I received in the mail a letter from OTW. It only took 5 months for OTW to respond, that says something about priorities:

----------------------------------------------------------------

Oceanic Time Warner
February 20, 2008.

Dear S1_Junkie (name changed to protect the vigilante)

I am writing to you in response to your letter to the Department of Commerce and Consumer affairs, CATV Division.

We have investigated your concerns and have made sure that you are receiving all the one-way services that we provide to our customers subscribing to your level of service.

Oceanic Time Warner Cable supports the ability of Unidirectional Digital Cable Products (“UDCP”) to access our one-way services and will continue to do so in the future. However, we are providing certain channels in other areas as two-way services.

Because UDCPs are one-way devices, they cannot access two-way services. Accordingly, if you would like to view those channels on your UDCP, you must obtain the necessary equipment – specifically, a set-top box with two-way capabilities.

Sincerely,
(Signed)
Norman P. Santos
Vice President, Operations

Cc: Glen Chock, D.C.C.A.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, the last 3 sentences were as entered here - lets say confusing.
(e.g. accorting to view with your TiVo you must get a set top box?!)

Clearly OTW does not get it. I wrote back, and to the DCCA:
----------------------------------------------------------------

TiVo Vigalante Towers
March 4, 2008

Norman Santos
VP Operations
Oceanic Time Warner
200 Akamainui Street
Mililani
HI 96789-3999

Dear Mr. Santos,

Thank you for your letter dated February 20th, and postmarked February 28th, in response to my Hawaii Dept. Commerce and Consumer Affairs Complaints dated September 17th, September 27th, and September 28th. And also, I assume, in response to emails exchanged between myself and Oceanic between October 2nd and October 31st the last of which asked a manager to contact me.

I understand that your letter draws a distinction between a “UDCP” and a “set-top box with two way capabilities”. And also between “one way service” and “two way service”. While I can imagine these views help in addressing Oceanic’s internal operations, they do not address Oceanic’s customer service obligations or Oceanic’s obligations to the FCC on which customers depend. These obligations are the issue.

In the context of these obligations the FCC’s ‘Plug and Play’ documentation ( http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/plugandplaytv.html ) is the gold standard. There are two alternatives, both described in the document: 1) “one-way programming only, including analog basic, digital basic, and digital premium cable programming” requiring “digital cable ready” consumer equipment; and 2) “advanced digital cable services like pay-per-view, video-on-demand, cable operator enhanced program guide, or interactive data enhanced television service” for this “you will need a set-top box”.

Note that one-way programming includes analog basic, digital basic, and digital premium cable programming. Also note the definitions are in terms of the programming or the viewer usage, not the distribution technology.

I believe Oceanic’s service does not comply with its obligations because many channels of “one-way programming” are currently unavailable for third party digital cable ready equipment (on Oceanic’s web site labeled as “CableCard”). Oceanic’s non-compliance includes, but may not be limited to:

1) Channels labeled on the web site as part of, for example, “Digital Cable Service” are labeled “Not available with CableCard”. Clearly this is not in compliance as such channels fall within the FCC’s “one-way programming” criterion and must be made available for digital cable ready equipment such as CableCard equipment. The list of these channels is extensive.

2) There are several instances of the same programming available in standard definition and on a separate channel in high definition (e.g. TBS, History). But the HD channel is not available to CableCard users on third party boxes. Only the resolution and the aspect ratio are different, the programming is the same; any claim that programming is anything but one-way in both cases is clearly ludicrous.

3) Oceanic leases set top boxes that contain a CableCard; strangely the HD channels listed on the Oceanic website as “Not Available with CableCard” are available on these Oceanic supplied CableCard boxes, but not on third party CableCard boxes. The criterion for HD channels seems to be who supplies the set top box. I’m pretty sure the intent of the regulation is that this would not be the case. Perhaps the web site should say “Not Available with TiVo, etc.”.

4) In the second half of 2007, the availability of some channels to third party CableCard equipment changed. The character of the programming did not change; the third party CableCard equipment did not significantly change. In a letter to customers dated August 21 Oceanic explicitly announced discontinued service of some one-way programming to third party CableCard equipment. This was explained (I paraphrase) by Oceanic’s choice to install equipment that was not backwards compatible (or choice to operate such equipment in a non-backwards compatible manner). This service discontinuation is a result of Oceanic’s choice and not of the programming, one-way or otherwise.

I am sure you will agree, Oceanic’s service must comply with FCC regulation. I do not believe this is currently the case as I have illustrated above. So I request Oceanic use its best efforts to make CableCard users whole without delay.

Please view this as an opportunity to provide solutions to your customers using third party equipment; we exist, it is simply good customer service to acknowledge that. I expect you have options; I look forward to hearing your proposal to allow your customers to fully utilize their equipment.

Regards

(Signed)

S1_Junkie

Cc: Glen Chock, D.C.C.A. 

----------------------------------------------------------------


Glen Chock
State of Hawaii
Cable Television Division
Department of Commerce and Consumer Affairs
335 Merchant Street
PO Box 541
Honolulu
HI 96809

Dear Mr. Chock,

After five months I finally received a response from Norman Santos of Oceanic; I expect you have seen a copy by now. I have replied to him, a copy is attached.

In my opinion Oceanic’s position seems unchanged, in summary: Oceanic has chosen to install new equipment which is not backwards compatible, so Oceanic refuses to comply with the FCC’s Plug and Play rules.

I request the State start an investigation.

Regards
(Signed)
S1_Junkie
----------------------------------------------------------------

I keep trying......

----------------------------------------------------------------
BTW, Encore and Showtime still dont work
s1_junkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 09:05 PM   #165
s1_junkie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by clark_kent View Post
So, we took the cablecard and a TiVoHD to a safe house....
Very interesting, thank you.
s1_junkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 02:43 AM   #166
clark_kent
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 98
missing cableguy763 post

What the heck happened to cableguy763's last post???

Can you re-call or delete your own post???

Can a moderator or someone delete a post???

Anyway... I was working on a reply to cableguy763... since that post has gone AWOL, I can't very well "quote" the missing post, I don't know if I'm braking some posting protocol or posting etiquette but I've decided to post my reply to the missing post anyway...

To paraphrase the missing cableguy763 post:

1. cableguy763 guessed that the 800 and 802 cards are the same except for color of the label
2. cableguy763 has made a 802 works in a TiVo but it had to be paired correctly
3. cableguy763 felt that cable is following FCC mandate
4. cableguy763 felt that cable loves for you to spend $600 on an S3 with a three year (TiVo) commitment since then you will be a cable subscriber for three years and cable has three years of revenue

So, my rely to the missing post:

The operative word in your comment on the difference between the 800 and 802 is "guess," and your "guess" may be correct, but my "guess" is that there could very well be more of a difference then just the color of the label...

As to you comment that the 802 "works fine as long as it is paired correctly" (that is a quote from the missing post) is not correct at all and has been disproved... please read post #161 above.

You say "cable is following the FCC's mandate" (again a quote from the missing post)... are you KIDDING or what??? I could follow up by asking if you work for the cable industry... but with a statement like "cable is following the FCC's mandate," I don't think there is any point in asking...

I'm sorry, but IMHO, your notion that cable "loves" TiVo or ANY box other then there own box sucking signal at the end of the coax is a dilution... I don't have any real numbers, but it would not be any big surprised to find a significant number of TiVo customers subscribing to "basic" or "standard" level of cable service... that's NOT where the money is for cable... even over three whole years... if you don't have a "cable" box, there is no PPV, there is no On-Demand, there is no spur-of-the-moment "lets watch this game," there is no "impulse buying" of anything... on Oceanic, there are some 50 (FIFTY!!!) PPV/OD channels... just where do you think the BIG money is and why cable wants everyone to have a "cable" box... and BIG $$$ PROFITS is why a simple minded (one-way) cablecard just will not do...

And, some thoughts on SDV: the cable industry probably has bandwidth issues, after all, they need more and more channels dedicated to $$$PPV (they already have 50, but need more)... a bonus of SDV (to the cable industry) is that it stops cablecard adoption dead in its tracks... another bonus of SDV (to cable) is that you will need yet another outboard box (from cable) as a "tuning resolver."

PS: I'd sure like to know what happened to cableguy763 post... I hit refresh to see if anyone else had added anything before I posted my replied, but it was simply gone and repeated refresh and back-steps have not brought it back...
clark_kent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 08:16 AM   #167
cableguy763
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 525
Clark, I deleted my post because I do not want to get in a spitting contest with you in particular. I do know that your testing of an 802 card in a tivo proved little. You DO NOT get encrypted channels. You never will if that card is not paired to the headend. You will get the EXACT same results plugging in a 800 card. The 802 cards are paired in cable boxes the exact same way as an 800 is in a udcp, thus following the fcc mandate that boxes use the same separable security as udcp. Thats what I meant by following the mandate. What I did find interesting though is that the guide matched the channel maps. Good find.

I honestly feel your pain over losing a lot of channels to sdv. The market I live in has more than otw. I have seen several announcements from tivo and ncta over the tuning resolver, and am anxiously waiting for it to come out.

I also would speculate that 75% of tivo hd users have cablecards that subscribe to digital services. If this were an tivo hd that worked with satellite, most would be satellite subscribers. This is why I say cable loves the fact that you are at least subscribing to something from them. Seems like an obvious point to me.

Last edited by cableguy763 : 03-05-2008 at 08:32 AM. Reason: added more
cableguy763 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 05:56 PM   #168
GiantsFan24
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Makakilo, Hawaii
Posts: 47
I want to weigh in on the credibility of cableguy763, since it has been more-or-less impugned by clark_kent. Cableguy is a well-known and highly appreciated contributor in TCF, especially in the Official Time Warner thread. He goes out of his way to help users who are having cablecard problems. I hope he gets paid for the time he spends troubleshooting problems for TCF posters from Austin. It would be nice if we had a local cable rep here who was as dedicated to customer service as cableguy.

I almost fell out of my chair when I read clark_kent ask cableguy to "comment on how [he] knows this." Cableguy has built his street cred in TCF. Clark_kent?...not so much.

I hope cableguy continues to contribute to this thread; it's to our benefit to have a knowledgeable rep from TWC participating.
GiantsFan24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 07:02 PM   #169
Icarus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Upcountry Maui, Hawaii
Posts: 339
I really think the discussion of alternate cc's is getting off the topic of this thread anyway.

But that's just my personal opinion, though staying on topic does make the email notification of new posts to this thread a bit more pertinent.

Thanks,
David
Icarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 09:19 PM   #170
clark_kent
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by cableguy763 View Post
Clark, I deleted my post because I do not want to get in a spitting contest with you in particular...

cableguy763, thank you for the clarification, I appreciate you getting back... I'm not looking for any spitting contest either... sorry about misunderstanding your comment regarding cable following FCC mandate... please accept my apology... had no intention of trowing any undeserved stones... I also did not intended to discredit your comments regarding the 800/802 cards and the label being the only difference... I have a big distrust of the cable industry... hope we're good and the community will continue to see your valued contributions... and one last note: when you say "with you in particular" I hope I have not inadvertently offended you (or anyone else) in some other post.

I would like to clarify the intent and purpose of experimenting with an "open market" cablecard that is not paired or authorized:

1. It was never my intent to encourage or to condone theft of cable service.

2. It was never my intent for this to be a way for someone to receive encrypted or unauthorized channels.

3. It was never intended for those that want premium/PPV or other encrypted services, which requires a paired and authorized cablecard.

There are a lot of TiVo users that just simply want guide data for local HD channels without being extorted and forced to sign up for cable services that is not wanted... "cabecard service" typically requires a lot more $$$ then just the few dollars for the cablecard fee itself... if cable would let customers have a cablcard for $5 and not "require/extort" subscription to other services, we wouldn't be having any discussions about this....

Having said all that, I have no qualm or issue "experimenting" and suggesting the use of "open sourced" cablecards for the purpose of getting guide data for UNencrypted local HD channels that are being paid for and are part of "basic or standard" cable service... if you're paying for the service and receiving the channel, cable should not come along and extorting other extra fees just so you can have guide data...

What did my experiment prove: most importantly, it proved that you CAN get channel guide data for unencrypted channels by using a cablcard that is not paired or authorized...

Does this one experiment prove that it will always work or you will always be able to get guide data for unencrypted channels: absolutely not... can you expect to get guide data for unencrypted channels with a different (but functioning) "virgin" cablecard: maybe... will this method work in other cable markets, or on other cable systems (like Moto): maybe...

Cable has a government license to operate a monopoly... that monopoly provides cable with huge profits... since cable has no social/moral corporate conscience, it's kind of like having a license to steel... with the huge profits that cable rakes in, one would think they would be grateful, and showed a bit of gratitude by having fair and reasonable policies... making customers pay for services they don't want just to be able to receive guide data is not fair or reasonable.
clark_kent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 05:20 PM   #171
clark_kent
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by clark_kent View Post
cableguy763, thank you for the clarification, I appreciate you getting back... I'm not looking for any spitting contest either... sorry about misunderstanding your comment regarding cable following FCC mandate... please accept my apology... had no intention of trowing any undeserved stones... I also did not intended to discredit your comments regarding the 800/802 cards and the label being the only difference... I have a big distrust of the cable industry... hope we're good and the community will continue to see your valued contributions... and one last note: when you say "with you in particular" I hope I have not inadvertently offended you (or anyone else) in some other post.
I re-read my last post (#170) and I should have made two separate posts... my first post should have just stopped with the above... and I should have made a second, seperate post to "clarify" the cablecard experiment...

The "clarification" part of my previous post (#170) might be misconstrued and perhaps (to some) sounded like I was still ragging on cableguy763... I was not, and I did not intend to sound as if I was... my apologies if that is how it came across to anyone.
clark_kent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 07:37 PM   #172
sfhub
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by cableguy763 View Post
I do know that your testing of an 802 card in a tivo proved little. You DO NOT get encrypted channels. You never will if that card is not paired to the headend.
Pairing is only needed for CCI=non-zero channels. If your card is activated and the channel is authorized, the card will decrypt the channel. If CCI=0x00 you will be able to see the resulting channel.

If CCI=non-zero, then after the card decrypts, it will need to re-encrypt before sending the data across the bus to the TiVo. It is here that the pairing information is needed and if pairing is broken, the CableCARD will not be able to re-encrypt and you will not see the channel.

Pairing's main design goal is for copy protection.
sfhub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2008, 03:04 PM   #173
docnaks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15
Wow, I'm getting very confused here. I hope someone can explain this to me in very simple terms.
I have a Series3 and an S2DT. I live in Hawaii and my father subscribes to TW Oceanic. He has the TW SA HD DVR; and subscribes to the HD package, HBO, Cinemax, etc (not that he even watches it...he's addicted to Korean dramas).
I don't use the S3 for HD programming...and don't plan to in the near future, because I don't have an HD TV yet (my wife says we need our own house first). Basically all I want to do is get the standard digital channels (I don't even care if I get any of the subscription channels, although it would be nice).
So if I went on Ebay and bought the right CableCards (I know I need 2), will it work? A simple yes or no will do. I don't need to know if it should or could work.

Thanks. Sorry for the dumb question, but all this talk of pairing and CCI is making my head swim.
docnaks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2008, 09:23 PM   #174
clark_kent
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by docnaks View Post
Wow, I'm getting very confused here. I hope someone can explain this to me in very simple terms.
I have a Series3 and an S2DT. I live in Hawaii and my father subscribes to TW Oceanic. He has the TW SA HD DVR; and subscribes to the HD package, HBO, Cinemax, etc (not that he even watches it...he's addicted to Korean dramas).
I don't use the S3 for HD programming...and don't plan to in the near future, because I don't have an HD TV yet (my wife says we need our own house first). Basically all I want to do is get the standard digital channels (I don't even care if I get any of the subscription channels, although it would be nice).
So if I went on Ebay and bought the right CableCards (I know I need 2), will it work? A simple yes or no will do. I don't need to know if it should or could work.

Thanks. Sorry for the dumb question, but all this talk of pairing and CCI is making my head swim.
Unfortunately (as with a lot of stuff), the answer to your question is not a simple "yes" or "no" ...

However, in your case, I don't think a cablecard will do all that much good (if any good at all) since you're not interested in HD programs... you don't need a cablecard for the "standard" channels... and, I don't know if the PQ between an "analog" KHNL channel 8 versus "digital" KHNLDT channel 88 is actually all that discernible... I think both channels (8/88) are 480i (SD)... so, why bother with the an ebay cablecard at all?
clark_kent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2008, 02:51 AM   #175
docnaks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15
Sorry, I should have clarified my reasoning for wanting some of the digital stations. My son loves PBS Kids (443), and my mom watches a lot of NGN (677). Being able to record shows on these digital stations would be great without that ugly STB.
So no dice, eh? Damn.
docnaks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2008, 06:48 PM   #176
GiantsFan24
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Makakilo, Hawaii
Posts: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by docnaks View Post
Sorry, I should have clarified my reasoning for wanting some of the digital stations. My son loves PBS Kids (443), and my mom watches a lot of NGN (677). Being able to record shows on these digital stations would be great without that ugly STB.
So no dice, eh? Damn.
Yep, no dice. But is there a reason why you don't want to get a cablecard thru OTW (besides the obvious headache of dealing with OTW)? You're going to need the digital service anyway, and renting a cablecard is cheaper than renting a settop box. There are lots of horror stories on this forum about hassles getting cablecards to work, but my experience was short and sweet -- it took about an hour, and everything on both cablecards was working. And (I think), you don't need two cablecards if all you want is a single tuner. AFAIK, the S3 will work fine with a single card (but I'm happy to be corrected on this if other folks know different). So if you don't care about not getting most of the HD channels (you don't) and you already have the S3 (you do), it seems like you might as well get the cablecard(s) from OTW.
GiantsFan24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2008, 08:38 PM   #177
clark_kent
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by docnaks View Post
... if I went on Ebay and bought the right CableCards (I know I need 2), will it work? A simple yes or no will do...
This question does not have a simple "yes" or "no" answer...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawaiiTivoLover View Post
... I installed the SA PowerKEY cablecard I bought on Ebay and did the guided setup and it didn't really work...
Some of the issues that may cause a cablecard to work or not work and makes the answer to your question a definite "maybe" are:

1. The cablecard you get on the open market (ebay, or where ever) may be defective, even if it is represented to be new.

2. The cablecard you get may not be defective but is perhaps de-activated or somehow crippled by cable company... maybe some cablecard experts can comment on this and let us know if in fact a cablecard can be rendered in-operable or somehow crippled.

3. If the cablecard you get is not defective and is not crippled, it may still not work. Even though the cablecard I tried did work without the magical "paring/authorizing," the card had been active and working (installed) in the Oceanic system... I don't know if "having been active in the system" is a factor or not.

HawaiiTivoLover got a cablecard on ebay and said that it did not work... if the reason it did not work is either 1 or 2 above, then a different card will "maybe" work but if the reason it did not work is number 3, then the answer is definitely "no, it will not work" and we're all sol (on getting guide data for local HD) until TiVo gives us the ability to edit the channel map/list...

Quote:
Originally Posted by docnaks View Post
Sorry, I should have clarified my reasoning for wanting some of the digital stations. My son loves PBS Kids (443), and my mom watches a lot of NGN (677). Being able to record shows on these digital stations would be great without that ugly STB.
So no dice, eh? Damn.
Check the Oceanic channel list at:

http://www.oceanic.com/OceanicWebApp.../DCL_Oahu.html

The result of one experiment demonstrated that all channels designated as "not available" for cablecard did not work and all Premium or PPV did not work; "Basic Service," "Value Service" and all "local HD" did work as did (most all) "Included with all Digital Services;" channel 677 is a "Premium Services" channel and did not work; channel 443 is a "Included with all "Digital Services" channel and it did work.

If you're the type that likes to take chances and experiment, get yourself a open market cablecard and play (if you do, let us know how you make out)... otherwise, don't bother... hope that helps.
clark_kent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2008, 01:49 PM   #178
docnaks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15
Thanks for the advice...will stick w/ basic for now. I have an S2DT hooked up to a STB to record 677 and 443. At least w/ MRV I can watch it on the S3.
docnaks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2008, 06:28 PM   #179
Icarus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Upcountry Maui, Hawaii
Posts: 339
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus View Post

1329 APLHD (Animal Planet)
1331 TLCHD
1333 DSCHD
1337 SCIHD

I'm not getting any programming on those channels on the S3, but the guide data is there.
Update: These channels come in on my OTW HD DVR but not on my S3. I talked to CSR last week. They tried to re-auth the cable cards, still nothing, so they scheduled a truck roll.

A week later, the truck gets here, the guy checks with his supervisor and tells me that they won't authorize these 4 channels on my CCs. But there's still no SDV on Maui. I have a call in to a foreman I've worked with before to try to find out what's going on there.

It seems silly that they had to do a truck roll just to tell me that CCs won't get these four channels, doesn't it?

I'll see what I can find out when the foreman calls me back.

-David
Icarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 09:14 PM   #180
Icarus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Upcountry Maui, Hawaii
Posts: 339
I finally talked to a supervisor today. He said that they decided to not authorize the 4 new HD channels on CCs on Maui since they are moving to SDV in May on Maui. He had no real knowledge about the tuning resolver either.

He implied they would have had to do something to make the four new channels work on the CCs now (at least on the islands that don't have SDV yet), but I have no idea what that could be other than authorizing them on the CCs.

I really hope that the tuning resolver will be available soon.

I wonder if I'm the only on Maui with an S3 or THD.

-David
Icarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVo® is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:02 AM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |