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Old 02-05-2008, 04:40 PM   #121
HawaiiTivoLover
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Originally Posted by Adam1115 View Post
BTW, you can get HD in Hawaii on DirecTV... Two large dish's...
hawaii does have direct tv HD (with 2 dishes) but it doesn't help the people stuck with a useless tivo HD or series 3.

Our only hope is the USB dongle...
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Old 02-06-2008, 02:03 AM   #122
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If you're a TiVoHD or S3 owner; and you only want "Basic" Oceanic service; but you'd also like your "guide" data for your local HD channels (1003, 1006, 1007, 1008, 1010); and you're not reluctant to doing a bit of experimenting; then, I have a suggestion for you...

Buy yourself a Scientific Atlanta CableCARD (the single stream card is the PowerKEY PKM600 and the multi-stream card is the PowerKEY PKM800) on the open market (Ebay or where ever); DO NOT call Oceanic; plug the little sucker in; DO NOT call Oceanic; re-do your guided-setup; and don't forget, DO NOT call Oceanic... I'm suggesting that you refrain from calling Oceanic since I'm not sure what Oceanic would do... but, I would not be surprised if they don't try to somehow cripple or disable your new toy or possibly your service.

I'm not a lawyer, but I don't believe this would be "illegal" since you are subscribing to Basic service and (I believe) FCC mandates that local HD channels must be carries "in-the-clear" and (I believe) the FCC says that you're entitled to receive local HD channels even at the very Basic service level.

Good luck, and may the force be with you...

PS: if this works, you will (at the moment) not get any guide data for channel 1007 since Oceanic RE-branded the KGMBDT call sign to "OCkgmb" and of you go to TiVo.com "Online Scheduling" you will see that channel 1007 guide grid is showing "SIGN OFF" all day and all night... 1007 used to have guide data when KGMB (finally) first showed up on Oceanic, but shortly after the initial startup, Oceanic RE-branded KBMB's HD call sign to OCkgmb. As soon they did that, the grid went blank. The signal is there, just no guide data for the "outside" world like Zap2it (Tribune Media) where TiVo gets guide data. Not sure why KGMB would want to go along with this.
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Old 02-06-2008, 05:00 PM   #123
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If you don't call them and they don't pair it to your TiVo, it won't work...
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Old 02-06-2008, 05:24 PM   #124
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I don't think thats true. If all you're using them for is the channel map, there's no need to pair; since they are not authenticating any conditional access.
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Old 02-06-2008, 05:37 PM   #125
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I don't think thats true. If all you're using them for is the channel map, there's no need to pair; since they are not authenticating any conditional access.
Where is it going to get the channel map FROM? If the host id isn't paired with the card in the cable companies systems, it won't receive any data...
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Old 02-06-2008, 06:15 PM   #126
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You're wrong.
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Old 02-06-2008, 06:20 PM   #127
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You're wrong.
Thanks for explaining.

Now I'm convinced.
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Old 02-06-2008, 06:30 PM   #128
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Thanks for explaining.

Now I'm convinced.
AFAIK (Bizzy may tell me I'm wrong), you aren't going to get any content on channels 1003-1008 unless you pair the cablecard. You may get the channel guide, but what is the point if you are receiving the channels via QAM?

I know... I'm wrong.
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Old 02-06-2008, 06:40 PM   #129
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The channels are not encrypted. They are in the clear. The only time you'd need to pair is to enable conditional access. You don't need to pair to get the channel mapping.
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Old 02-06-2008, 06:58 PM   #130
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The channels are not encrypted. They are in the clear. The only time you'd need to pair is to enable conditional access. You don't need to pair to get the channel mapping.
So, explain this to me like I don't know what I'm talking about -- which is likely. OTW's HD channels are broadcast in the clear on channels like 88.3 and 104.1 (or something like that). OTW's channel guide lists the shows on channels 1003-1008. How can Tivo do anything useful with the channel guide? And if it can't, why bother with the cablecard?

[Edit] Forgot to mention this part... Clark_Kent posted this suggestion on another thread in response to someone who wanted to know if he could get the HD channels using a cablecard without digital service. So my theory is that without digital service, he's not going to be receiving channels 1003-1008. Just the QAM channels. Right?

Last edited by GiantsFan24 : 02-06-2008 at 07:02 PM. Reason: added info
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Old 02-06-2008, 07:05 PM   #131
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The cablecard is the device that handles the channel mapping.
Your Tivo has its own guide. It does not use OTW's.
You're over thinking this.
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Old 02-06-2008, 07:12 PM   #132
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The cablecard is the device that handles the channel mapping.
Your Tivo has its own guide. It does not use OTW's.
You're over thinking this.
I understand that Tivo has its own channel guide, but it uses info provided by OTW. Fox HD in Hawaii is listed on the Tivo guide as channel 1003, not channel 88.3 (which it is on my QAM tuner) or channel 0 which is what Tivo picks it up as from the coax. Are you saying that if I plug an unregistered cablecard in my Tivo I will start seeing Fox HD on channel 1003?
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Old 02-06-2008, 07:16 PM   #133
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I have no idea if a random cablecard will work. I can tell you that a OTW one will.
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Old 02-06-2008, 07:18 PM   #134
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I have no idea if a random cablecard will work. I can tell you that a OTW one will.
Ahhh. The suggestion was to buy a cablecard off Ebay and not tell Oceanic about it. Are we talking about two different things?
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Old 02-06-2008, 07:41 PM   #135
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There is a nonzero chance that it would work, but I am not going to tell you the odds are better than flipping a coin. I have no idea what the cards need to be configured for a specific provider.
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Old 02-06-2008, 08:11 PM   #136
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I have no idea if a random cablecard will work. I can tell you that a OTW one will.
So I'm wrong that it won't work, but you don't know if it will work.



How in the hell would get a OTW one that ISN'T PAIRED TO ANYTHING?
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Old 02-06-2008, 10:23 PM   #137
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How in the hell would get a OTW one that ISN'T PAIRED TO ANYTHING?
Social engineering.
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Old 02-07-2008, 12:14 AM   #138
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well i'll be able to tell you in a few days. just bought a PowerKEY PKM600 on ebay for my Series3. Crossing my fingers and I'll report back.
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Old 02-07-2008, 04:48 AM   #139
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RE getting your own CableCARD suggestion...

Hello All,

I think rolling your own CableCARD may actually work, and I'll get into why I think that in a moment, but first, from reading some of the posts I'd like to share some additional food for thought as to why I suggest NOT to call OTW if you do get your own CableCARD to experiment with.

I don't know what OTW would actually do or say, but OTW being the folks that they are, here's my take on the possible outcomes of such a call...

You phone OTW and say something like "Hello, I have my own CableCARD, and I want HD service."

Possible OTW reply:

1. What's your account number... but then again they may already know that from your caller-ID.

2. It's illegal for you to "own" you own CableCARD. (This may or may not be true but if it is NOT true, OTW will likely say this cause that's how they do business). And, they might add: you need to turn that card in to us.

3. OTW is the only one that can supply you with a CableCARD. (This may or may not be true but if it is NOT true, OTW will likely say this cause that's how they do business). And, they might add: you need to turn that card in to us.

4. It's illegal for you to attach your own CableCARD to our signal. (This may or may not be true but if it is NOT true, OTW will likely say this cause that's how they do business). And, they might add: you need to turn that card in to us to make sure your card doesn't mess up our signal.

5. They ask you for your CableCARD's personal info (Serial Number, MAC-Address, UA number, etc) and the trusting sole that you are, you give it to them.

6. They tell you that you must upgrade your service level from Basic to some "Digital and HD and etc)" level for $$$ per month and then possibly tell you that there's an extra $$$ per month since you are using your own device. So now your paying $$$ + $$$ for 4 HD channels that are already in-the-clear.

7. Another possibility, now that OTW has your CableCARD's "number," they "program" it so that NO channels are on your "allowed-to-view" list at all and you have NO support service since it's your own card.

Regarding some additional thoughts as to why I think that having your own CableCARD may actually work... The assumption is that all you really want from OTW is the Basic (lowest level) cable tier and the local HD channels that I think the FCC says that you're entitled to getting without having to subscribe to any other additional tiers.

1. TiVo Mom "knows" all the channel numbers (analog, digital, music, PPV, on-demand, SDV, etc) on OTW's cable, probably from some type of EPG file that is supplied to TiVo Mom by OTW. What TiVo Mom does not know is what "channels" you are actually "authorized" to view. To check this out, get on tivo.com, click on "Online Scheduling" (and assuming tivo.com does not "recognize" your location from your cookies) you will have the option of entering your zip code, then you'll get a box asking you to select your service provider, so select "OTW digital" and you will see ALL OTW channels and the program guide grid for ALL the channels. I think TiVo Mom get the "channel list" from OTW and the actual guide data from Tribune Media (zap2it.com). Don't forget that you actually "select" or "de-select" the channels you "receive" or watch from the channel list in your TiVo.

2. ALL the channels (analog, digital, music, PPV, on-demand, SDV, etc) are on the coax coming out of your wall, no matter what your service level. OTW can put channel blocks (filters) on the your line from the pole to your place for Analog channels, but as far as I know, the digital channels can not be blocked or filtered out like the Analog signals. Any device (TV, TiVo, DVR) with a QAM tuner will be able to tune ANY in-the-clear (clear-QAM) digital channel that's on the cable. The most likely reason that while your QAM-TV can tune 99.3 (KGMB-DT, or any other clear-QAM signal) but not know what that channels "name" is, is because the PSIP is crippled (or malformed).

3. OCkgmb (KGMBDT) is at 117025KHz (or 117000KHz depending on tuner) and is displayed as "channel" 99.3 on a QAM devise and 117000KHz is mapped to channel 1007 on a OTW STB.

4. I believe the sole purpose of a CableCARD is to authorize and authenticate whether or not you're allowed to receive "encrypted" channels. If all you want to watch is clear-QAM (unencrypted) channels, you should not need to be "paired" or anything else (in my opinion). If you want something other then the in-the-clear channels, this "suggestion of getting your own CableCARD" is not for you, as you will need to be "paired" so that your CableCARD can authorized your access to encrypted channels.

5. I think, that with a (non-paired) CableCard in your TiVo, your TiVo will map 117000KHz to channel 1007 from the channel list that TiVo Mom sends.

This is what I think will happen when you plug your own non-paired CableCARD into your TiVO:

1. You plug your new (Scientific Atlanta) card into your TiVo.

2. You run guided setup and obviously (as long as the card is working) your TiVo will recognize it. In Guided setup, you tell it you get digital everything.

3. Your TiVo calls home to Mom and download something and ask you if it has the correct channel list. When you're satisfied, you say OK.

4. TiVo Mom, downloads the entire channel list and guide data for ALL channels in the OTW channel list. You go to the channel list on your TiVo and check or uncheck the actual channels that are in-the-clear that you can actually watch. With CableCARD in slot, "digital" channel list from TiVo Mom, your TiVo now "maps" QAM freqency 117000KHz to channel 1007. My guess is that OTW identifies (maps) channel frequency to channel number (117000KHz = 1007) to TiVo Mom and if OTW moves a channel to another frequency, they send that data (new EPG channel list) to TiVo Mom.

If this works for OTW, it will most likely work the same for all other cable markets, provided all you're looking for is clear-QAM unencrypted channels. If it does work, you do need to make sure you get a CableCARD that is "compatible" with your cable provider (Motorola or Scientific Atlanta).

And, a BIG "way-to-go" to HawaiiTivoLover... I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

Good luck to us all and may the force be with us...
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:36 AM   #140
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None of that explains why it would work.

If a cablecard didn't need to be paired, then you don't need a cablecard and your channels would already be working.
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Old 02-08-2008, 04:21 AM   #141
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Several new HD channels showed up on my tivo on Maui:

1113 - CNN HD
1323 - HGTV HD
1327 - HIST HD
1449 - LMN HD
1547 - A&E HD
1583 - MTV HD

Most of them still have no programming info from tivo. I submitted a lineup request. Also still waiting for them to straighten out the name change back to KGMBDT from OCKGMB, which caused a loss of guide information. Not sure what the problem is with that one. It's taking forever.

-David
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Old 02-08-2008, 11:11 AM   #142
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Where is it going to get the channel map FROM? If the host id isn't paired with the card in the cable companies systems, it won't receive any data...
When our system enabled content control (CCI=non-zero) we found out what you stated is untrue.

Many folks in my area thought they had properly paired cards when in fact they didn't. After content control was enabled, what folks found is they were still enable to receive encrypted channels despite having cards that were not paired properly. What they were not able to receive were encrypted shows/channels with CCI=non-zero.

So a CableCARD that is not paired with the HostID *does* receive data and decrypts it as long as content protection is not enabled.

There are actually 2 significant activation points with your CableCARD.
1) activation/authorization - this allows your card to decrypt channels that the cable company has put on the wire
2) pairing - for CCI=non-zero content, CableCARD specs require the CableCARD to *re*encrypt the content it has already decrypted in step #1, using host-specific keys, prior to passing the stream to the host device. If content protection is not requested (CCI=0x00) then this step is not needed and even if pairing is broken you will still see the content (assuming #1 if fine)

The CableCARD downloading a channel map is a slightly separate process. It is probably spelled out somewhere whether this can take place with an unactivated card, but I haven't looked closely enough at the specs to see what could or would happen. Experimentation could get the answer quickly as well. Some markets (not necessarily Hawaii) allow self installs so someone could test out the theory pretty easily.
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Old 02-09-2008, 11:48 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
Several new HD channels showed up on my tivo on Maui:

1113 - CNN HD
1323 - HGTV HD
1327 - HIST HD
1449 - LMN HD
1547 - A&E HD
1583 - MTV HD

Most of them still have no programming info from tivo. I submitted a lineup request. Also still waiting for them to straighten out the name change back to KGMBDT from OCKGMB, which caused a loss of guide information. Not sure what the problem is with that one. It's taking forever.

-David
Wow! when did those channels come back? Bummer, i turned my cablecards in a few weeks ago trading for a piece of s#!t TWC DVR.
Waiting for the USB Dongle...
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Old 02-16-2008, 12:12 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
Several new HD channels showed up on my tivo on Maui:

1113 - CNN HD
1323 - HGTV HD
1327 - HIST HD
1449 - LMN HD
1547 - A&E HD
1583 - MTV HD

-David
Same channels are here in Kona, except 1583. All I see is the channel name, no TiVo program data, and since the OTW vermin wont sell me the HD package the screen is grey.

Still dreaming of a USB tuning resolver ....
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Old 02-18-2008, 04:56 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by HawaiiTivoLover View Post
well i'll be able to tell you in a few days. just bought a PowerKEY PKM600 on ebay for my Series3. Crossing my fingers and I'll report back.
So did it work? What channels can you get?
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Old 02-29-2008, 08:44 PM   #146
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So did it work? What channels can you get?
sorry it took so long to reply, was out of town.
I installed the SA PowerKEY cablecard I bought on Ebay and did the guided setup and it didn't really work. at best it would tune to a channel for about 3 seconds if at all and then go to grey screen. Never got any of the HD network channels to work at all. Mybe its an issue with the cablecard...
tried both slots and rebooting, no difference.
just took the card out and redid guided setup again.
I'm back to a SD Tivo series 3 :-(
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Old 02-29-2008, 11:17 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by HawaiiTivoLover View Post
sorry it took so long to reply, was out of town.
I installed the SA PowerKEY cablecard I bought on Ebay and did the guided setup and it didn't really work. at best it would tune to a channel for about 3 seconds if at all and then go to grey screen. Never got any of the HD network channels to work at all. Mybe its an issue with the cablecard...
tried both slots and rebooting, no difference.
just took the card out and redid guided setup again.
I'm back to a SD Tivo series 3 :-(
Well, that is a big bummer!

I don't know if anyone has any suggestions as to how to tell if your card is actually working or has some type of malfunction... if you don't mind sharing some info regarding your cablecard:

1. Is it a Multi-Stream or Single Stream?
2. What specific model number is it?
3. What's the date on the card?
4. What's the hardware (HW) version?
5. What's the firmware version?
6. Did you try doing any soft or hard resets after the guided setup?
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Old 03-01-2008, 02:03 AM   #148
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Well, that is a big bummer!

I don't know if anyone has any suggestions as to how to tell if your card is actually working or has some type of malfunction... if you don't mind sharing some info regarding your cablecard:

1. Is it a Multi-Stream or Single Stream?
2. What specific model number is it?
3. What's the date on the card?
4. What's the hardware (HW) version?
5. What's the firmware version?
6. Did you try doing any soft or hard resets after the guided setup?
1. it's a single stream card
2. pkm600
3. no date i can see
4. how do i tell?
5. how do i tell?
6. tried both resets.

hope it helps.
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Old 03-01-2008, 01:59 PM   #149
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I've never had to pair a cable card with my TiVos for Comcast. I've gone to the local cable office picked up cards, and installed them and they worked just fine. I've never had to give them any information on what I was installing them in. Also when I had to replace my S3 due to a lightning strike I was able to move the cards from the old S3 to the new S3 and had them work fine.

The cable company enables the cable card to descramble the channels you are supposed to receive, they do not have to pair it.
If you have a cable card that has not been activated/enabled you will still get basic channels plus any digital channels they broadcast in the clear (the Local HD stations). The cable card will pull the channel map whether it has been activated by the cable company or not, (I've done it on mine when Comcast didn't activate a card correctly) you will just not be able to view those channels and will get a message telling you so.
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Old 03-02-2008, 02:43 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by HawaiiTivoLover View Post
1. it's a single stream card
2. pkm600
3. no date i can see
4. how do i tell?
5. how do i tell?
6. tried both resets.

hope it helps.
One of my friends just got a new OTW STB with cablecard... we're going to take the card out to play... we'll let you know what we find and how the card likes being inside something else...
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