TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Help Center
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-26-2007, 08:02 AM   #1
jangelj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 54
Best way to shut down Tivo

What is the friendliest way to turn off a Tivo? I usually just pull the power cable, but I know that can corrupt a drive. Is there a better way? I want to remove my HD to do a backup but want to do it in the least invasive way possible

I know it sounds like a silly question (I have searched and didn't find an answer). But after my last HD crashed I am particularly cautious.

John
jangelj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2007, 08:05 AM   #2
jrm01
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,619
Actually that is the only way to shut down tivo. I know for anyone who has used a computer that sounds ridiculous, but supposedly the tivo disk/file format is more foregiving of this type of interruption.

If you are super cautious, you could put it in stand-by first and make sure it is not recording anything.
__________________
Comcast, Cox, TW, Charter and BHN are cabal companies.
(That is not a spelling error. Check the definition.
)
jrm01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2007, 09:02 AM   #3
CrashHD
I am the me.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: MO, USA
Posts: 687
If I need to shut one down, I go into the menu to force it to reboot, and then I unplug it at the "Welcome, powering on" screen. Basically, I try to unplug it very early in the boot process, when if it's doing anything disk at all it should be reading it read-only still anyway.

This is almost certainly not necessary, but it's how I do it.
__________________
Can you touch your ____ with your ___? Then go ____ yourself?
The answers are (shoulders, hands, hug). If you came up with something else, that's on you
CrashHD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2007, 09:15 AM   #4
Dr_Diablo
Dr_Diablo
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Midwest
Posts: 912
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashHD
If I need to shut one down, I go into the menu to force it to reboot, and then I unplug it at the "Welcome, powering on" screen. Basically, I try to unplug it very early in the boot process, when if it's doing anything disk at all it should be reading it read-only still anyway.

This is almost certainly not necessary, but it's how I do it.

Too me that would be like rebooting a PC from the power switch then plugging the plug...

This is a design flaw/problem with Tivo, for it never shuts down... There should be an on/off switch...

Do you leave your home PC on 24/7 ?
Dr_Diablo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2007, 09:40 AM   #5
jangelj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Diablo
Too me that would be like rebooting a PC from the power switch then plugging the plug...

This is a design flaw/problem with Tivo, for it never shuts down... There should be an on/off switch...

Do you leave your home PC on 24/7 ?
Yes, I leave my home PC on 24/7 (not 365...I do shut it down occassionally).

I know it is bad to pull the plug while it is recording, the problem is, it is ALWAYS recording the buffer. I was thinking about going into the settings where you can change the settings for how your sattelite box changes channels. When you go into that menu option you get a message that says "to access these settings, the recorder will cease all recording activity" or something to that effect. I am going to check and see if that includes recording the buffer. If so, maybe it is worth going into that setting and then pulling the plug?

Maybe I am WAYYYY overthinking this. But who can blame me. My last power outage completely fried my HD.

John
jangelj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2007, 01:09 PM   #6
mick66
Dirty Burger
 
mick66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The 'verse
Posts: 4,869
Just pull the plug.
A power outage is very different than you pulling the plug.
mick66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2007, 01:23 PM   #7
jangelj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by mick66
Just pull the plug.
A power outage is very different than you pulling the plug.
I'm not arguing, but I am wondering how it is different?

My "power outage" wasn't typical. The power went out at my house early in the AM. My UPS beeps when it is running on battery. After about 5 minutes, I figured the power wasn't coming on anytime soon, and since the tivo was not recording, I simply shut off the UPS. The beeping was going to wake the kids...nooooooo.

Now the tivo did come up and seemed fine, but the next day, while watching a recorded show, it shut down and started the reboot/GSOD cycle. It has the click of death. I have to think shutting down the tivo precipitated the HD failure.

Side note: dd_rescue found 60,000 errors. The HD is in the fridge now. I am going to cool it down and see if that helps.

John
jangelj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2007, 12:54 AM   #8
Dr_Diablo
Dr_Diablo
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Midwest
Posts: 912
Quote:
Originally Posted by jangelj
Yes, I leave my home PC on 24/7 (not 365...I do shut it down occassionally).

I know it is bad to pull the plug while it is recording, the problem is, it is ALWAYS recording the buffer. I was thinking about going into the settings where you can change the settings for how your sattelite box changes channels. When you go into that menu option you get a message that says "to access these settings, the recorder will cease all recording activity" or something to that effect. I am going to check and see if that includes recording the buffer. If so, maybe it is worth going into that setting and then pulling the plug?

Maybe I am WAYYYY overthinking this. But who can blame me. My last power outage completely fried my HD.

John
What a bummer, fried Tivo, how tasty ? JK...

I went out this weekend and purchased a combo surge protecter/battery backup unit...

What with having a plasma set, I didn't want to damage the tube by shutting down improperly from allowing cooling by the fan, not to mention having surge protection from any electicial spikes...

I can only guess, that shutting down the Tivo completely, should be done in "standby mode"... JMO
Dr_Diablo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2007, 01:39 AM   #9
jfh3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Denver area
Posts: 4,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Diablo
I can only guess, that shutting down the Tivo completely, should be done in "standby mode"... JMO
No. The optimum time to unplug a Tivo is at the Welcome screen, but it really doesn't matter.

The disk is still spinning/recording in standby, so it's no different unplugging the box in standby than any other time.
jfh3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2007, 12:32 PM   #10
ricklevine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Diablo
Too me that would be like rebooting a PC from the power switch then plugging the plug...

This is a design flaw/problem with Tivo, for it never shuts down... There should be an on/off switch...

Do you leave your home PC on 24/7 ?
I have three TiVos and I have been shutting down my TiVos by unplugging them ever since I've had them, going on 7 years now, and haven't had a problem yet.

And, yes, I do leave home without turning off my computers. They are also on 24/7 as well as my server.
ricklevine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2007, 12:51 PM   #11
BobCamp1
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by jangelj
Side note: dd_rescue found 60,000 errors. The HD is in the fridge now. I am going to cool it down and see if that helps.

John
The freezer works better and is quicker, if the HD is failed in that way. It just needs a few hours in the freezer. But put it in a Ziploc bag first.
BobCamp1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2007, 01:26 PM   #12
captain_video
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 832
Quote:
A power outage is very different than you pulling the plug.
Loss of power to the Tivo is the same in both instances. How is this different in any way, unless there's a power spike at the moment just prior to an outage? Killing the circuit breaker is the same as pulling the plug or losing power due to an outage.
__________________
What's a VCR?
captain_video is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2007, 01:54 PM   #13
CrashHD
I am the me.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: MO, USA
Posts: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video
Killing the circuit breaker is the same as pulling the plug
yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video
or losing power due to an outage.
no.

Outages are pretty commonly accompanied by surges and/or sags both in the moment of failure, and when the power is restored. They are usually not sufficient in magnitude to damage most appliances, but at the least they are not good, and it is not the same as turning off via switch/breaker/power cord.
__________________
Can you touch your ____ with your ___? Then go ____ yourself?
The answers are (shoulders, hands, hug). If you came up with something else, that's on you
CrashHD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2007, 02:34 PM   #14
nirisahn
Registered User
 
nirisahn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Denver area
Posts: 6,968
I usually find that when I need to pull the plug on my TiVo, it's because the darn thing has frozen up. Again. That's a Humax for you! My S2DT doesn't seem to have that problem, and I can't think of one time I've had to force a reboot by unplugging it. If I feel the need to reboot the S2DT, it's because I'm messing about with the network or T2G and then I restart the TiVo, not unplug it to reboot.
nirisahn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2007, 09:11 AM   #15
Brighton Line
Registered User
 
Brighton Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 136
Same here on my 80 hour Humax, when I have to pull the plug 9 times out 10 the box is frozen.
Brighton Line is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2007, 09:25 PM   #16
JasonRossSmith
The New Guy (sort of
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 173
Not that you likely "need" to but if you really want to be careful:

1) Go to Tivo Central
2) Select "Messages & Settings"
3) Select "Standby"

It doesn't really turn it "off" but is the best you could get without getting fancy, hacking, etc.
JasonRossSmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2007, 02:22 AM   #17
Dr_Diablo
Dr_Diablo
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Midwest
Posts: 912
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonRossSmith
Not that you likely "need" to but if you really want to be careful:

1) Go to Tivo Central
2) Select "Messages & Settings"
3) Select "Standby"

It doesn't really turn it "off" but is the best you could get without getting fancy, hacking, etc.

Makes perfect sence to me... That is the way I'd shut the device down, rather than to just unplug it...

I wouldn't think of pulling the plug while my PC was operating, so why should it be any different with the Tivo, isn't it a mini-PC as well?
Dr_Diablo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2007, 12:23 PM   #18
nirisahn
Registered User
 
nirisahn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Denver area
Posts: 6,968
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Diablo
Makes perfect sence to me... That is the way I'd shut the device down, rather than to just unplug it...

I wouldn't think of pulling the plug while my PC was operating, so why should it be any different with the Tivo, isn't it a mini-PC as well?
But what do you do if your PC freezes up?
nirisahn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2007, 12:34 PM   #19
MickeS
Registered User
 
MickeS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: AZ
Posts: 25,883
Just pull the plug. That's how it's DESIGNED to shut off. It does zero harm to it.
MickeS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2007, 12:35 PM   #20
Squeak
An Inert Gas
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 10,040
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Diablo
I wouldn't think of pulling the plug while my PC was operating, so why should it be any different with the Tivo, isn't it a mini-PC as well?
a TiVo is different -- it uses a different file system that can recover from sudden outages. Standard PC's running windows need the ability to commit files in memory before the shutting down.

The one and ONLY way to turn a tivo off is pull the plug.

Also, starting and stopping hard drives are much harder on them than long-term continual use.
__________________
Do you really care what kind of TV or TiVo I have? Didn't think so...
Squeak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2007, 12:41 PM   #21
allan
I survived the Mayan
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 12,437
Late last winter, I had electrical problems that caused random power outages. My Tivo survived several of them with no problem, until the night the power went off, on, off, and on again within a few minutes. The poor box never booted after that.

I've never had any problems just disconnecting the plug.
__________________
My Tivo is too small!

BEEP
allan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2007, 04:23 PM   #22
jrm01
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,619
Quote:
Originally Posted by nirisahn
But what do you do if your PC freezes up?
Mine has always restarted from a freeze by holding down the power on/off button for 10-15 seconds. never had to pull the plug (many freezes).
__________________
Comcast, Cox, TW, Charter and BHN are cabal companies.
(That is not a spelling error. Check the definition.
)
jrm01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2007, 08:04 PM   #23
dianebrat
Uncontrolled Force
 
dianebrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: boston'ish
Posts: 7,916
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonRossSmith
Not that you likely "need" to but if you really want to be careful:

1) Go to Tivo Central
2) Select "Messages & Settings"
3) Select "Standby"

It doesn't really turn it "off" but is the best you could get without getting fancy, hacking, etc.
and if you pull the plug then, it's exactly the same as pulling the plug while it's playing a show, while it may "feel good" functionally it's no different going into standby and pulling the plug. Unlike your PC filesystem, the Tivo Filesystem is built to just go off.

Applying current PC logic to an appliance that does not function like a PC is wrong.

the answer is "just pull the plug, Tivo was designed to take it"
dianebrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2007, 08:20 PM   #24
Arcady
Stargate Fan
 
Arcady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrm01
Mine has always restarted from a freeze by holding down the power on/off button for 10-15 seconds. never had to pull the plug (many freezes).
What "power on/off" button?
__________________
Roamio Pro (3TB)
Premiere Elite (2TB)
Premiere (320GB)
Two TiVo Minis

Left DirecTV 4/15/07. Left TWC 8/8/11. Now on Comcast Xfinity.
Arcady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2007, 10:11 PM   #25
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 6,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcady
What "power on/off" button?
Its under the secret door in the TiVo
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis,
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2007, 11:26 PM   #26
jrm01
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcady
What "power on/off" button?
That was in response to what to do when your PC freezes up. If everyone keeps talking about the Tivo secret door it ain't going to remain a secret.
__________________
Comcast, Cox, TW, Charter and BHN are cabal companies.
(That is not a spelling error. Check the definition.
)
jrm01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2007, 01:25 AM   #27
alansh
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,175
All standby does on most TiVo models is shut off the output and turn off the lights. It still records the buffer.

From what I've been able to determine, the "restart" option doesn't do any shutdown or cleanup; it just triggers a reset.

The programs filesystem is normally mounted read-only. There's a writable filesystem for logs and temporary files, but the TiVo can blow it away and recreate it without any problems if it's damaged.

The filesystems for the programs are a special TiVo format that can handle being interrupted.

So my conclusion is just pull the plug.
alansh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2007, 06:57 AM   #28
dianebrat
Uncontrolled Force
 
dianebrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: boston'ish
Posts: 7,916
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrm01
If everyone keeps talking about the Tivo secret door it ain't going to remain a secret.
The first rule about the secret door is that we don't talk about the secret door


dianebrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2007, 02:34 PM   #29
WayneCarter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,290
It's entirely possible to write a disk interface that is fully tolerant of losing power at any point in the access to the disk and not having "bad things" happen to the disk, disk structure, disk contents, etc. It's even possible to write the disk interface so the amount of data lost by a power loss is minimal. I have written several disk interfaces of this type myself. While I have no definitive knowledge of how TiVo interface is implemented, it seems quite reasonable to assume it will handle power failure "gracefully".

The only "problem" is that doing things this way is somewhat inefficient, so "high performance" disk access (ie PCs) usually opt for the faster, more responsive implementation, even though it does require buffers be flushed before power down or some structures can become "dirty".

Bottom line - quite trying to shut it down like a PC (can't be down) and just "pull the plug".
WayneCarter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2007, 02:47 PM   #30
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 6,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by dianebrat
The first rule about the secret door is that we don't talk about the secret door

For all you people who own a Humax TiVo with a built in DVD player this is a secret I bet most don't know, that cute TiVo logo under the DVD player is really a TiVo button, same as the remote's TiVo button.
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis,
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:05 AM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |