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Old 07-29-2009, 01:13 PM   #1
ejeffo
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Question Cannot listen to sound with TV off?

Okay, equipment first... I have...

Tivo HD S3
Onkyo TX-SR307 Receiver
Samsung 50" Plasma (I cannot remember the model, but irrelevant)
All connected by HDMI and optical audio cables

Anyway, I had a Cox DVR previous to the Tivo and I was able to tune to a music choice channel, turn off the TV and listen to the music through the receiver. Since getting the Tivo box I have not been able to do this (hence, the Tivo is the culprit). As soon as I switch off the TV, the music stops as well. Has anyone heard of this? Is there a workaround? I am assuming it has to do with the HDMI since it has 2-way comm, but this never happened with the Cox DVR.

P.S. I know going to component would fix the problem, but the cables are in the wall and I really don't want to switch them out if I don't need to.

Thanks in advance for any solutions or ideas.
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Old 07-29-2009, 01:19 PM   #2
janry
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How do you have the audio connected to the receiver? Is it coming from the TVs optical out to the receiver, or do you have an audio connection directly from the TiVo to the receiver in addition to the HDMI from the TiVo to the TV?
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Old 07-29-2009, 01:28 PM   #3
ejeffo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janry View Post
How do you have the audio connected to the receiver? Is it coming from the TVs optical out to the receiver, or do you have an audio connection directly from the TiVo to the receiver in addition to the HDMI from the TiVo to the TV?

Audio goes from the Tivo, to the receiver, and then to the TV. All optical.
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Old 07-29-2009, 01:39 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejeffo View Post
Audio goes from the Tivo, to the receiver, and then to the TV. All optical.
You're 100% certain you aren't going from TV to receiver?

I had no problems doing what you describe under an older software release, but I have not tried it under recent software versions.
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Old 07-29-2009, 01:46 PM   #5
Stephen Tu
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Remove the optical from the TV to the receiver (it's not going "to the TV" as you said, the optical on the TV is an *output* not an *input*), so that we can avoid any confusion as to where the audio is coming from.

Is the HDMI going straight from Tivo to TV, or through the receiver? Do give the model # of the plasma, it's not necessarily irrelevant.
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Old 07-29-2009, 02:08 PM   #6
ejeffo
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My bad...

There is HDMI going from Tivo to Receiver, to TV..

Optical audio only goes from Tivo to receiver. I do not use the TV audio at all.
I am 100% positive of this... there is no audio cables associated with the TV at all, except of course the audio integrated with the HDMI.
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Old 07-29-2009, 02:10 PM   #7
ejeffo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Tu View Post
Remove the optical from the TV to the receiver (it's not going "to the TV" as you said, the optical on the TV is an *output* not an *input*), so that we can avoid any confusion as to where the audio is coming from.

Is the HDMI going straight from Tivo to TV, or through the receiver? Do give the model # of the plasma, it's not necessarily irrelevant.
You are correct... I corrected myself in the post above.

The model number is something like 50A650B. It is 720P, I just bought it 3 months ago. I just cannot remember the model number and I am at work now.
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Old 07-29-2009, 04:09 PM   #8
Lazlo123
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Is it possible you have the optical cable on a different input than the hdmi? Say, just for example, optical going to "cd" input and hdmi going to "tv" input, and then forgetting to switch the receiver to "cd"?
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Old 07-29-2009, 04:18 PM   #9
drey
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On your Onkyo receiver, you most likely have sources set incorrectly.

In your situation with HDMI you probably have both video and audio to the same output. As such, when you turn off TV, signal does not go through and audio disappears

Do the following
1. Set video output to HDMI 1 for your TV
2. Set audio output to optical 1 for your TV

For example, if you use Input 3 (DVR) for viewing, this is where you'd set those options.
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Old 07-29-2009, 04:19 PM   #10
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Most modern receivers let you pick whether to use optical or HDMI for digital audio. HDMI is usually the default. In your case, I would choose optical.
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Old 07-29-2009, 04:38 PM   #11
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I have the same problem.
Tivo Series3 HDMI to Bose V30 on Cbl/Sat input
Bose V30 HDMI to Pioneer PDP5060 (Video1)
Audio is through Bose only - TV has no speakers connected.
Select Bose Cbl/Sat and TV(Video1) picture and sound,
turn off TV either by toggling off with remote or the button
on the plasma display, and the sound goes away - Bose is
still on and still shows Cbl/Sat but no longer shows Digital 5.1.

I'm going to hook an optical cable from Tivo to Bose for audio
when I have time to work around it.
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Old 07-29-2009, 07:27 PM   #12
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Why connect the optical at all? I have my TiVo going HDMI to my Onkyo receiver, then HDMI to the TV. We listen to the TiVo nearly every day with the TV off.

Disconnect the optical completely and use the HDMI as your sound source. You can tell the Onkyo (at least I can on mine) to not even ship the sound to the TV.
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Old 07-29-2009, 07:31 PM   #13
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When I do that with the Bose - it acts as I said - TV off = no sound.
This is only when it is HDMI Tivo->Bose and HDMI Bose->TV.
I suspect when I hook up the optical Tivo->Bose using the HDMI for
video only, it should work even if the TV is off.
I seem to remember doing component + optical before I did HDMI and
it worked that way.
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Old 07-29-2009, 07:55 PM   #14
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I suspect that you're being bitten by the restrictions on HDMI/HDCP.
When your TV is turned off, your receiver doesn't see a valid HDMI-compliant device. Nor does your TiVo, presumably; I assume the receiver just passes on the information from the TV.
The TiVo is required to disable digital output over HDMI if it does not see a compliant device (I'm not sure if it is allowed to provide output at SD, nor if a TiVo would do so, even if permitted, if output is set to 480i). If you don't like that, thank the lobbyists for the entertainment industry.

Your best bet is to run the optical audio output from the TiVo to your receiver, and use that as your audio source; that isn't subject to the restrictions place on HDMI audio.
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Old 07-29-2009, 08:51 PM   #15
Stephen Tu
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Quote:
Disconnect the optical completely and use the HDMI as your sound source. You can tell the Onkyo (at least I can on mine) to not even ship the sound to the TV.
That's definitely a bad idea on original poster's model. This model, like a lot of low-end models, doesn't process audio over HDMI, it's "pass-thru" rather than "repeater". The optical is absolutely necessary. And he has been getting sound, so that suggests his input assignment is correct.

So this suggests an HDMI problem. Does it happen on all channels, not just music channels, e.g. NBCHD? If you tune to the channel, then unplug the HDMI from the Tivo, do you still get audio? I'd also experiment with running the HDMI straight from the Tivo to the TV, rather than through the receiver, to see if anything changes. Also, are you using "dolby digital" in the menu or "dolby digital -> PCM"?

This isn't a unique issue:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/sho...d.php?t=425068

Last edited by Stephen Tu : 07-29-2009 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 07-30-2009, 12:00 AM   #16
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I have no problem using only HDMI from the TiVos and getting audio only with the TV off.
I get audio from my Sony 3.1 speaker bar and also from my Denon 3808.
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Old 07-30-2009, 12:21 AM   #17
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My TiVo is connected to my Denon AVR-3808ci via HDMI. My Pioneer Kuro is connected to the Denon via HDMI. [Optical is not connected.]

I have no problem listening to audio when the TV is off. The TV does not have any impact on the audio at all.
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Old 07-30-2009, 01:12 PM   #18
steve101
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Ok, on my setup I have confirmed that the Tivo is the one
stopping the audio.

TV: Pioneer 5060HD
Tivo Series3 - Dolby Digital selected
Bose V30

With Tivo->HDMI->Bose->HDMI->TV, when the TV display
is off there is no sound from the Bose speakers AND the
Bose display shows CBL/SAT only (when the TV is on, it
shows Digital 5.1, Digital 2.0 ...).

When I connect Tivo->ComponentVideo->Bose->HDMI->TV
and Tivo->Optical->Bose, the sound works correctly with
the TV on or off. When I tried Tivo->HDMI->Bose->ComponentVideo
->TV it also worked.

I guess that means that the TV on/off state is communicated
back over HDMI through the Bose to the Tivo.

I have changed all settings one at a time on the Bose that
would seem to affect this with no change.

Since it has been said here before that there is little to no
difference (video) between component and HDMI, I am
leaving it that way.

<Edit>
I also tried different channels - local, premium,music
with no difference.
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Old 08-02-2009, 12:49 PM   #19
ejeffo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Tu View Post
That's definitely a bad idea on original poster's model. This model, like a lot of low-end models, doesn't process audio over HDMI, it's "pass-thru" rather than "repeater". The optical is absolutely necessary. And he has been getting sound, so that suggests his input assignment is correct.

So this suggests an HDMI problem. Does it happen on all channels, not just music channels, e.g. NBCHD? If you tune to the channel, then unplug the HDMI from the Tivo, do you still get audio? I'd also experiment with running the HDMI straight from the Tivo to the TV, rather than through the receiver, to see if anything changes. Also, are you using "dolby digital" in the menu or "dolby digital -> PCM"?

This isn't a unique issue:
This is correct. It is a pass-through, rather than a repeater. The receiver does not convert the HDMI audio. I understand what you all are saying about the inputs and outputs and such, but the thing is that this worked finr with everything hooked up exactly the way it is with the Cox DVR... Therefore, it is definitely the Tivo causing the issues. I am wondering if there is a setting I can change that allows the audio to continue to play even when the HDMI signal is cut off.
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Old 08-02-2009, 04:58 PM   #20
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Sounds to me like TiVo's playing by CableLab's rules but Cox isn't.
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Old 08-02-2009, 07:56 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9300170 View Post
Sounds to me like TiVo's playing by CableLab's rules but Cox isn't.
I don't believe Cable Labs have anything to do with this - it sounds like an HDMI/HDCP issue, not a CableCard problem.
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