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Old 08-07-2007, 01:04 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2
Fluctuations in the signal strength?

Come on.

This is obviously some sort of driver/hardware interaction problem, possibly with the cable cards. However, seeing as some users are reporting the problem even with analog cable I suspect it's far more likely that some of this is being caused by problems with hardware or firmware.
Obviously, as your single data point of experience, coupled with your extensive knowledge of the internals of the THD and cable plants around the country leads to the rock solid conclusion that signal strength has nothing to do with pixelation problems on any THD in the country.

Right.
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Old 08-07-2007, 01:14 PM   #32
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re-wiring didn't help

cablevision re-wired my whole house today (it needed it, other box was failing).

Still pixelating. Perhaps a little less often, but again its very annoying to see it at all.

I'm hoping tivo will release frequent updates as they see improvements with the problem. I do believe they will solve it, and I'm sure there are late nights nowadays in Tivo software engineering.

I'm going to wait as long as I can, but in its current state, the reasonable course is to return it.

Tivo, if you can pull log data of any kind from my box to assist in trouble shooting... go for it.

Tom
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Old 08-07-2007, 01:36 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoHokies!
Obviously, as your single data point of experience, coupled with your extensive knowledge of the internals of the THD and cable plants around the country leads to the rock solid conclusion that signal strength has nothing to do with pixelation problems on any THD in the country.

Right.
Numerous people have indicated that improving signal strength has had no effect on pixelation with these boxes.

And btw, I am a telecom engineer with extensive experience with signal levels, DS3s, etc and I am probably as qualified as anyone to say "doesn't sound like signal strength has anything to do with this".
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Old 08-07-2007, 02:09 PM   #34
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I called Tivo Tech Support this morning, and they told me they're working on a software fix for the macro blocking issue and hope to have something within a week or so. I get these pixelation events every few seconds both on cable and OTA signals. My cable signal strength is typically in the 90 to 93 range after Cox came out and boosted the signal, and my OTA Antenna signal strength is listed as being 97 to 100.

Tech Support didn't seem concerned about any of the details of my installation (cablecard brand, signal strength, etc.); just acknowledged that there is a problem and they're working on it.

I guess I'll hang loose until my 30 day window draws nearer...hopefully they'll get a fix out.

Jeff
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Old 08-07-2007, 02:55 PM   #35
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good news

Thanks for that.. good news.

In the mean time I'll stock up on $0.99 Unbox rentals

Tom
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Old 08-07-2007, 03:38 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2
Numerous people have indicated that improving signal strength has had no effect on pixelation with these boxes.

And btw, I am a telecom engineer with extensive experience with signal levels, DS3s, etc and I am probably as qualified as anyone to say "doesn't sound like signal strength has anything to do with this".
Very nicely done. And oh by the way, I greatly appreciate the advice you have offered to me with my CC problem on the Comcast thread. Now if only I could find someone at Comcast who could actually follow your suggestion points. You wouldn't be willing to drive to Pittsburgh, invade the Comcast office, take over a computer for about 15 minutes and fix my account so this actually worked would you? I'd be eternally grateful! Seriously, I appreciate the advice you have offered. The guy at Tivo the other night concurred with what you suggested.
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Old 08-07-2007, 04:19 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2
Fluctuations in the signal strength?

Come on.

This is obviously some sort of driver/hardware interaction problem, possibly with the cable cards. However, seeing as some users are reporting the problem even with analog cable I suspect it's far more likely that some of this is being caused by problems with hardware or firmware.
Its been reported on the TiVo menu and I did see it once on the TiVo menu, for such a short time if this thread did not exist i would not have reported it but the TiVo Menu takes the pixelation problem out the tuner system, cable system and CC, the issue must be in the output electronics/control. Does the output setting make any difference as I do not see this pixelation as other are and I am using 1080i fixed and HDMI.
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Old 08-07-2007, 05:19 PM   #38
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Well, all I know is, when I check the signal strength on the cards, it doesn't waiver from 100%. It's 100% solid.

And for the record, I had a S3 the week they were released.

I obtained my HD box the day after it came out.

Prior to having FIOS with the S3 box, I had Brighthouse Cable. No issues with the S3 then, no issues with either box now.

So, I have 2 HD boxes, FIOS, and 4 Moto cable cards. And I have no problems.

If it is a hardware or software issue - and I have the same hardware and software as everyone else does - why am I not seeing the issue?

If it's not the FIOS/signal installation at the premesis, then what is it?
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Old 08-07-2007, 05:20 PM   #39
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Looks like we need to change the term "early adopter" to "consumer beta tester".




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Old 08-07-2007, 05:25 PM   #40
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Bravo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2
Numerous people have indicated that improving signal strength has had no effect on pixelation with these boxes.

And btw, I am a telecom engineer with extensive experience with signal levels, DS3s, etc and I am probably as qualified as anyone to say "doesn't sound like signal strength has anything to do with this".

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Old 08-07-2007, 06:04 PM   #41
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Wow, I have been weighing numerous options w/ regards to my Series 2 TiVos, including staying put, upgrading to one of these new Tivo HD boxes or stopping TiVo completely. I am extremely glad I found this thread, so I can drop that upgrade option from consideration!

Any possibility they (TiVo) just cheaped out on the video output hardware; e.g. used an underpowered video chipset for what they're asking it to do?
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Old 08-07-2007, 06:10 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVotion
Well, all I know is, when I check the signal strength on the cards, it doesn't waiver from 100%. It's 100% solid.

And for the record, I had a S3 the week they were released.

I obtained my HD box the day after it came out.

Prior to having FIOS with the S3 box, I had Brighthouse Cable. No issues with the S3 then, no issues with either box now.

So, I have 2 HD boxes, FIOS, and 4 Moto cable cards. And I have no problems.

If it is a hardware or software issue - and I have the same hardware and software as everyone else does - why am I not seeing the issue?

If it's not the FIOS/signal installation at the premesis, then what is it?
Possible variables:

Cable Cards firmware/software
Cable Card spec
Bad batch of IC's/passives/hard drives/connectors
and about a million other little things unfortunately.
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Old 08-07-2007, 07:02 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westside_guy
Wow, I have been weighing numerous options w/ regards to my Series 2 TiVos, including staying put, upgrading to one of these new Tivo HD boxes or stopping TiVo completely. I am extremely glad I found this thread, so I can drop that upgrade option from consideration!

Any possibility they (TiVo) just cheaped out on the video output hardware; e.g. used an underpowered video chipset for what they're asking it to do?
Not like a video output HW since it should not be related to specific cable card slot, it's probably related to the tuner: ATI Theater 314 demodulator chips for digital cable or ATSC signals, which may be impacted by bad signal on cable cards. Some people also reports that OTA without cable cards is also impacted. Don't know why that happens, it could be that the ATI chip is not as reliable or mature. According to Megazone's review, this choice of ATI chip is a cost choice:

http://www.tivolovers.com/a-review-o...edia-recorder/
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Old 08-07-2007, 09:21 PM   #44
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S3 with FIOS in Plano, TX here.

We are seeing pixelation on our digital channels. I believe it just started in the past couple weeks. Prior to that, we had no issues. Signal strength is way high, like 98% or more. Even on my old DTivo, pixelation did not occur until signal strength dropped under 70%.

I rebooted the S3 and initially thought the problem cleared up, but it started again after about 20 minutes. It is most noticeable on some HD channels, but other SD channels exhibit the problem. For example, it sometimes shows up on SpikeTV.

It would be bearable if it was just pixelation, but it is also audio stuttering, forcing us to switch over to the SD channels.

I was about to call Verizon about the issue, but seeing this thread makes me think I should wait it out.
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Old 08-07-2007, 09:55 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2
Numerous people have indicated that improving signal strength has had no effect on pixelation with these boxes.

And btw, I am a telecom engineer with extensive experience with signal levels, DS3s, etc and I am probably as qualified as anyone to say "doesn't sound like signal strength has anything to do with this".
Just because there is a problem unrelated to signal strength with some units doesn't mean that the problem with EVERY unit is unrelated to signal strength. I'm certain that some people experiencing pixelation problems can fix the problem by fixing their signal strength problems. Why am I certain of that? Because I'm one of them, so go stuff your "extensive experience" in your piehole.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist (or a "telecom engineer with extensive experience with signal levels, DS3s, etc") to figure that out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by megory
Real mature. Thank you for your valuable contributions to this thread.
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Old 08-07-2007, 10:29 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoHokies!
go stuff your "extensive experience" in your piehole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoHokies!
Real mature.

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Old 08-07-2007, 11:07 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoHokies!
Just because there is a problem unrelated to signal strength with some units doesn't mean that the problem with EVERY unit is unrelated to signal strength. I'm certain that some people experiencing pixelation problems can fix the problem by fixing their signal strength problems. Why am I certain of that? Because I'm one of them, so go stuff your "extensive experience" in your piehole.
Interesting, I looked back on your past posts and I could not find where you said you were experienceing this issue on a Tivo HD, nor a post that said you remedied it either on your own, or through support of the cable company to improve your signal strength. Can you share what the signal strength was when you experienced pixelation on your Tivo HD, and what level was required to remedy the problem? Also how was the improved strength acheived?
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Old 08-07-2007, 11:21 PM   #48
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Oftentimes on Discovery HD the audio drop outs on recorded shows is about 2 seconds for every 3 minutes of programming. At this stage, I can live with it. I know it's not any signal issue, it's purely software. Please fix it Tivo.
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Old 08-07-2007, 11:26 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoHokies!
Real mature. Thank you for your valuable contributions to this thread.
And what is your contribution other than slamming others? Do you even own a Tivo HD?

S3 and Tivo HD don't even use the same hardware but you're qualified to make recommendations on what worked for you with your S3.

Have you read the numerous reports of people adding amplifiers, boosters, etc, to bump up their signal strength and it having no effect on this problem?

I'll tell you what, find someone who has fixed this problem with the Tivo HD by doing as you say and you'll be on better ground to tell someone to shove things in their piehole!

Last edited by jmpage2 : 08-07-2007 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:22 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yunlin12
Not like a video output HW since it should not be related to specific cable card slot, it's probably related to the tuner: ATI Theater 314 demodulator chips for digital cable or ATSC signals, which may be impacted by bad signal on cable cards. Some people also reports that OTA without cable cards is also impacted. Don't know why that happens, it could be that the ATI chip is not as reliable or mature. According to Megazone's review, this choice of ATI chip is a cost choice:

http://www.tivolovers.com/a-review-o...edia-recorder/
Wow...that's a really interesting review, and breakdown of the internal hardware. Thanks for the link! Regarding the OTA pixelation issues, I took the cablecards out of my Tivo HD today, and my OTA performance on the Tivo is way better. Now, instead of getting multiple pixelation events per minute, I just get a handful of them over a half-hour period. It's not nearly as distracting. Also, as has probably been reported by others, I'm not having any problems with the Analog cable channels.

I really hope they can do something with the software, and this isn't a hardware issue with that ATI 314 chip, or some kind of interference between that chip and something else on the board.
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:55 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimpware
Interesting, I looked back on your past posts and I could not find where you said you were experienceing this issue on a Tivo HD, nor a post that said you remedied it either on your own, or through support of the cable company to improve your signal strength. Can you share what the signal strength was when you experienced pixelation on your Tivo HD, and what level was required to remedy the problem? Also how was the improved strength acheived?

Good Point!
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Old 08-08-2007, 05:40 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2
And what is your contribution other than slamming others? Do you even own a Tivo HD?

S3 and Tivo HD don't even use the same hardware but you're qualified to make recommendations on what worked for you with your S3.

Have you read the numerous reports of people adding amplifiers, boosters, etc, to bump up their signal strength and it having no effect on this problem?
For the record I do own a THD (which I clearly stated in my last reply, so it looks like your reading comprehension skills are right up there with your engineering skills) - I've bowed out of the discussions up to this point because my pixelation problems were actually signal strength related and easily corrected. I had a crappy old 3 way splitter in the signal path feeding two other cable outlets that were not being used in the house. Once I removed this, everything started working fine. I get momentary (fraction of a second) dropouts very rarely, which is why I'm following these threads.

What finally drew me to jump in is your wildly incorrect statement that there is now way that anyone is having a problem with signal strength and if anyone is seeing pixelation is HAS to be a manifestation of this bug. Discouraging people from at least considering signal strength when troubleshooting this problem could very well stop people from fixing the problem (to a large degree) on their own (and that's the only way some will get the problem solved - no amount of software updates will magically fix a signal strength problem).

Quote:
I'll tell you what, find someone who has fixed this problem with the Tivo HD by doing as you say and you'll be on better ground to tell someone to shove things in their piehole!
Again, like I clearly stated in my last reply I don't need to look that far because I fixed the vast majority of my pixalation problems by increasing my signal strength. Who's on the shaky ground now?

The "real mature" comment was directed at folks like Megory and unction who basically posted to cheer you on while contributing nothing of value to this thread.
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Old 08-08-2007, 06:33 AM   #53
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I'm positive it's an THD problem and not signal strength, at least in my case. Previous to the THD I had a Comcast provided 8300HD that would experience pixelization once every 4-5 recorded or live hours of HD content. And then it would be for 1-2 seconds at most.

After installing the THD on the same drop (removing the 8300HD), pixelization on analog, SD, and HD content every 3-4 minutes. Swap back out for the 8300, clear signal.

This, along with the growing complaints leads me to believe these is a root problem NOT related to signal strength (90-93 BTW).
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Old 08-08-2007, 06:50 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bastion999
I'm positive it's an THD problem and not signal strength, at least in my case. Previous to the THD I had a Comcast provided 8300HD that would experience pixelization once every 4-5 recorded or live hours of HD content. And then it would be for 1-2 seconds at most.

After installing the THD on the same drop (removing the 8300HD), pixelization on analog, SD, and HD content every 3-4 minutes. Swap back out for the 8300, clear signal.

This, along with the growing complaints leads me to believe these is a root problem NOT related to signal strength (90-93 BTW).
Not disagreeing, you are probably right, but the Tech. at Tivo told me the Tivo with CC might require a stronger signal than the 8300, as I told them exactly the same thing as I did exactly the same test.

I have Cablevision coming to the house today to check my signal to ensure this is not the issue in my case, I will post results later today.
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Old 08-08-2007, 07:28 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoHokies!
The "real mature" comment was directed at folks like Megory and unction who basically posted to cheer you on while contributing nothing of value to this thread.
I must have treked into bizaroo world - this is so reminiscent of the hookbill/hornblowercat, GoHokies, et. al. days, except in reverse.
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Old 08-08-2007, 07:57 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoHokies!
The "real mature" comment was directed at folks like Megory and unction who basically posted to cheer you on while contributing nothing of value to this thread.
Huh? I just posted a positive reinforcement.
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Old 08-08-2007, 08:08 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by megory
Huh? I just posted a positive reinforcement.
Positive reinforcement of a post that basically slammed me without reaing or understanding my post.

That's not the kind of behaviour that I would want to be known for encouraging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psyton
I must have treked into bizaroo world - this is so reminiscent of the hookbill/hornblowercat, GoHokies, et. al. days, except in reverse.
I'd like to think that I've "turned things around" so to speak and contribute more than I detract these days. I probably could have been a little bit more polite, but seriously - read my post where I said I had a signal strength fixed my pixelation problem before you say I'm full of crap.
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Old 08-08-2007, 09:18 AM   #58
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That's not the kind of behaviour that I would want to be known for encouraging.
Of course not!
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Old 08-08-2007, 09:21 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoHokies!
For the record I do own a THD (which I clearly stated in my last reply, so it looks like your reading comprehension skills are right up there with your engineering skills) - I've bowed out of the discussions up to this point because my pixelation problems were actually signal strength related and easily corrected. I had a crappy old 3 way splitter in the signal path feeding two other cable outlets that were not being used in the house. Once I removed this, everything started working fine. I get momentary (fraction of a second) dropouts very rarely, which is why I'm following these threads.

What finally drew me to jump in is your wildly incorrect statement that there is now way that anyone is having a problem with signal strength and if anyone is seeing pixelation is HAS to be a manifestation of this bug. Discouraging people from at least considering signal strength when troubleshooting this problem could very well stop people from fixing the problem (to a large degree) on their own (and that's the only way some will get the problem solved - no amount of software updates will magically fix a signal strength problem).

Again, like I clearly stated in my last reply I don't need to look that far because I fixed the vast majority of my pixalation problems by increasing my signal strength. Who's on the shaky ground now?

The "real mature" comment was directed at folks like Megory and unction who basically posted to cheer you on while contributing nothing of value to this thread.
Tivo has already acknowledged that something is going on and I expect a software update that fixes software or drivers is going to be coming fairly quickly as they have probably been debugging this with people who experience the problem with some frequency.

Things like the "signal strength screen" that show up in the Tivo menus would also clearly show up in the CLI when doing diagnostics and I'm sure if Tivo felt that it was responsible for even a sizeable fraction of the problems that they would have stated so already to people contacting them about the issue.

I really don't know what your beef is with me, I have years of experience working with systems similar to the Tivo (large IP based PBX systems that run on Linux and interact with circuit hardware/firmware) but it seems you'd much rather "shout down" people who don't agree with you or belittle them.

Like I said, noone other than yourself has reported fixing this issue by boosting their signal. It's great that this worked for you, but apparently there is more to this problem than weak signal level.
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Old 08-08-2007, 10:18 AM   #60
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An update to the information I posted yesterday. Again, Verizon FIOS in Tampa, new TiVo HD box, 2 Moto cablecards.

CC's were installed early in the morning. I watched TV most all day looking for the macroblocking issue. This included several movie channels for 20, 30, even 60 minutes at a time or more, and even a few analog channels in the lower set (2 through 49).

The entire time I watched yesterday until about 7pm, I had absolutely no macroblocking issues, unless they occured every time I blinked. Then suddenly, after 7-8pm, I was watching Return of the Jedi (think it was on Starz!) that I'd decided to record while I watched something else. Went back later and watched the recorded program, and sure as hell, there was an instance of macroblocking in the recorded program. Just for a split second. I reversed the movie to before the spot where it occured and played it again, but then it was gone. Continued watching the movie, and several more instances of macroblocking cropped up, but at random intervals - sometimes two within 1 minute, then sometimes not another one for 20 minutes later. Just like the pics I've seen of the issue, the blocking is sometimes on most of the screen, and sometimes only on the lower 1/3 of the screen.

I went back and forth between recorded programs and live TV the rest of the night and continued to notice the problem on both, at odd random intervals. Then, I finally saw the macroblocking occur on the TIVO MENU as well. This didn't happen constantly, but it did happen. Apparently the blocking isn't being recorded into the stream, because I can't make it reproduce itself at the same spot on recorded content.

Why the heck the problem waited all day to start I have NO idea. As I said, I didn't see it all day until the evening. And, my signal on all channels doesn't dip below 100%.

But now I can also confirm I have it too. Even though I know TiVo can't fix it (yet), is it going to do any good to call them and open a ticket on it?

Maybe we're actually dealing with more than one issue with the boxes. My Series 3 absolutely doesn't exhibit this behavior at all.
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