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Old 05-17-2009, 02:09 AM   #1171
richsadams
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Use the search...it is your friend. Or instead you could look at the sticky threads at the very top of this forum. In fact, reading this very thread is probably a good idea.

You might have a look at this one as well...

FIOS TV pixellation fix
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Old 05-17-2009, 11:22 AM   #1172
Cybertron
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Thanks.
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Old 05-17-2009, 02:25 PM   #1173
cuppingmaster
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Question Time Warner too?

So they came to setup mine yesterday, and many of the HD channels don't look all that much better from the SD channels. Specifically, things that are shiny or white look terrible, and the brightness is a lot different than what it was on a regular motorola TWC HD box. Bodies also look like they have shadows around them, or if someone is wearing a patterned suit or tie, it is distorted. Is this what others are referring to here?

I read the post about attenuators and stuff, but has anyone else has TWC had those work?

Thanks
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Old 05-17-2009, 04:03 PM   #1174
bkdtv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuppingmaster View Post
So they came to setup mine yesterday, and many of the HD channels don't look all that much better from the SD channels. Specifically, things that are shiny or white look terrible, and the brightness is a lot different than what it was on a regular motorola TWC HD box. Bodies also look like they have shadows around them, or if someone is wearing a patterned suit or tie, it is distorted. Is this what others are referring to here?
Make sure your TiVo is set to output HD. Set it to fixed 720p or fixed under Settings -> Video -> Video Output Format.

If you are using a using video input on your TiVo, you'll probably need to adjust your TV's settings. Most TVs store separate settings for each input.

If you are new to the TivoHD, also be sure to see the Using TiVo link in my signature.
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:59 AM   #1175
cuppingmaster
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I've gotten the shinyness problem fixed by reducing the sharpness, so that helped somewhat. The picture itself though is just not sharp. Before I could truly see the pores in people's faces, now it's just a little softer. Reds are still very red, as are blues. Dark shows look especially bad, and whites are way too white.

I'm going to try some attenuators, as either way, it seems that SNR of 35 isn't all that great and that's what I'm at.. Does anyone have explanations for all the other stuff about the CableCARD info the have on the diagnostics screen?

Any other ideas? I like the flexibility of the TiVo, but I'm tempted to get the moto box back for the near flawless picture it gave me.
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Old 05-18-2009, 02:14 AM   #1176
bkdtv
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Originally Posted by cuppingmaster View Post
Bodies also look like they have shadows around them, or if someone is wearing a patterned suit or tie, it is distorted. Is this what others are referring to here?
No. Nothing you have described has anything to do with pixelization, which is form of picture breakup. If your picture isn't breaking up, attenuators are not going to make a difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuppingmaster View Post
I've gotten the shinyness problem fixed by reducing the sharpness, so that helped somewhat. The picture itself though is just not sharp. Before I could truly see the pores in people's faces, now it's just a little softer. Reds are still very red, as are blues. Dark shows look especially bad, and whites are way too white.
Those sound like calibration issues to me. If anything, the output of the TivoHD should be better than the Motorola box.
  1. Is the TiVo on fixed 1080i or fixed 720p?

  2. What type of cable are you using? HDMI or component?

  3. Are you using the same input you used with the Motorola box (ex: HDMI input #2)? Make sure that is the case.

  4. What is the make and model of your display?

Without more information, we can't diagnose the problem.
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:43 AM   #1177
cuppingmaster
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Originally Posted by bkdtv View Post
No. Nothing you have described has anything to do with pixelization, which is form of picture breakup. If your picture isn't breaking up, attenuators are not going to make a difference.

Those sound like calibration issues to me. If anything, the output of the TivoHD should be better than the Motorola box.
  1. Is the TiVo on fixed 1080i or fixed 720p?

  2. What type of cable are you using? HDMI or component?

  3. Are you using the same input you used with the Motorola box (ex: HDMI input #2)? Make sure that is the case.

  4. What is the make and model of your display?

Without more information, we can't diagnose the problem.
Thanks for the hints. To answer your questions:

I have it on Native right now.

I'm using the same input with the same cables (component video)

I have a 46" Sharp Aquos (1st generation, though I don't have the banding problems often associated with some of these sets)


I know pro calibration can be a pretty penny, so I'm hoping to DIY.
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:41 PM   #1178
genaman
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Arrow Pixelation - Fios - Non-HD Channels

I have Tivo HD, and Fios. A few months ago I started noticing pix on non HD channels only. It has gotten to a point where I cannot watch many non HD Channels. HD Channels work fine most of the time. I have 3 Verizon Cable boxes with no problems.

I called Tivo, and in the typical condesending style, they blame the Cable company. The Tivo diagnosits for the problem channels show a lot of fluctuation in the signal strength, but not in the db.

I had Verizon over today. They spend 3 hours going over everything. They changed all the parts they could (splitters, et. al.). They tested the signal at every point in the house, and cam up with perfect readings. The only problem is the Tivo. They cannot find a Verizon problem. They really tried everything. Now I'm stuck with calling Tivo again and dealing with their obnoxious support. I am so fed up with Tivo (I have had 3 defective units in a year and a half). I can't wait for my contract to be up so I can get a regular Verizon cable box.


Any suggestions?

Thanks
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Old 05-18-2009, 02:46 PM   #1179
bkdtv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuppingmaster View Post
Thanks for the hints. To answer your questions:

I have it on Native right now.

I'm using the same input with the same cables (component video)

I have a 46" Sharp Aquos (1st generation, though I don't have the banding problems often associated with some of these sets)
You might try a HDMI cable and see if it makes a difference. Monoprice.com sells quality HDMI cables for $4.

I would also suggest you find the AVS "owners thread" for your TV and use the recommended settings for that model and size. Click here, enter "+Sharp +owners" (without the quotes), and select "Search Titles only" from the drop down menu.

Last edited by bkdtv : 05-19-2009 at 04:55 AM.
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Old 05-18-2009, 03:04 PM   #1180
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Originally Posted by genaman View Post
I had Verizon over today. They spend 3 hours going over everything. They changed all the parts they could (splitters, et. al.). They tested the signal at every point in the house, and cam up with perfect readings. The only problem is the Tivo. They cannot find a Verizon problem. They really tried everything.
Did you read the Known Issues post? Quoting from that post:

Quote:
Verizon FiOS signal typically requires attenuation

FiOS customers with 8-way splitters may need less attenuation, or none at all, because the 8-way splitter already provides significant attenuation for the signal.

The TivoHD is much more sensitive than Verizon's own boxes. The FiOS TV signal direct from the Verizon ONT is almost always too strong for a TiVo. A "perfect" signal level for the FiOS STB/DVR may be unacceptable for the TiVo. The result is a massive amount of Uncorrected errors (reported on System Information -> DVR Diagnostics screen) on some channels. These signal errors cause pixelization and audio dropouts.

In most -- but not all -- cases, the pixelization and dropouts on FiOS are eliminated by adding 10-20dB of attenuation. Attenuators screw onto the end of the coax and reduce the signal strength. By now, many Verizon installers know to attenuate the signal for the TiVo. The FiOS installer should attenuate the signal for the TiVo to -6dB, as reported by their signal meter. In some situations, more attenuation may be required -- FiOS installers will provide additional attenuators for free upon request.

If your FiOS installer is not aware of the TiVo's need for attenuation, it is important that you make them aware of it. Otherwise, they will not be able to fix the problem, because everything they do will be based on the assumption that the TiVo has the same signal requirements as their own Motorola box. If you do not ask for attenuation, the installer may replace all your cabling and equipment without changing the signal level.

If you want to add attenuation yourself:

  1. Order one of each (20dB, 16dB, 12dB, 10dB, 8dB, 6dB, 3dB) attenuator for a total of $8.19 from MCM Electronics.

  2. Identify at least two channels with pixelization. [Pick the channels with the worst pixelization.]

  3. Set each tuner to a different channel with pixelization. [To swap tuners, press the LiveTV button.]

  4. Open Messages & Settings -> System Information -> DVR Diagnostics.

    Note the RS Uncorrected errors on each channel. Your goal is to eliminate all (or most) of the RS Uncorrected Errors reported for each channel on the Messages & Settings -> System Information -> DVR Diagnostics screen. It is these errors that cause the pixelization.

  5. Disconnect the coax from the CABLE input and screw on the -20dB attenuator. Reconnect the coax with the attenuator to the CABLE input.

    1. If you can still tune the channels, and you've eliminated the RS Uncorrected errors, as reported by the DVR Diagnostics screen, then proceed to step #6.

    2. If you lost the ability to tune one or more of those channels, then switch out the -20dB attenuator with the next lowest attenuator (ex: 20 -> 16 -> 12 -> 10 ->8).

  6. Confirm that you are able to tune and receive all of the following channels without pixelization (or significant RS Uncorrected errors):

    550 USA-HD (135MHz)
    572 ESPNews HD (195MHz)
    590 Versus HD (237MHz)
    780 Disney HD (327MHz)
    618 FoxNews HD (375MHz)
    053 FX (429MHz)
    50_ FOX-HD (507-513MHz)
    664 Food-HD (597MHz)
    620 Discovery HD (669MHz)
    551 TNT-HD (717MHz)
    711 Palladia (807MHz)

    If you are not able to tune all of these channels, then repeat step #5 with the next lowest attenuator.

  7. If you find that a certain level of attenuation causes you to lose some channels (ex: 20dB), and the next level of attenuation (ex: 16dB) eliminates pixelization on most -- but not all -- channels, then you can connect two attenuators in line to obtain an intermediate level. For example, you could screw the 12dB and 6dB attenuators together to obtain 18dB attenuation.

  8. That's it.

FiOS customers with a Motorola 1000v or Tellabs 611i ONT will also require a low-pass filter, regardless of the box they use. Without a low-pass filter, the MoCA on these ONTs will interfere with the A/V on the Verizon boxes and the TiVo. This is completely separate from the signal issue discussed above. Low-pass filters are unnecessary for other ONTs.


Last edited by bkdtv : 05-19-2009 at 04:52 AM.
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:38 AM   #1181
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FIOS pixellation problems

I had massive FIOS pixellation issues on several channels and installed signal attenuators a few months ago. Totally solved the problem.
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Old 05-19-2009, 12:51 PM   #1182
genaman
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Thanks for the advice. I had Verizon out to the house again today. We tried the attenuators, anywhere from -3 to -24. It does not solve the problem. They installed new CCs, and added a low pass filter. Same problem. Verizon has done all they could possibly do. Tivo will not take any responsibilty for this. Any other suggestions?
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Old 05-19-2009, 11:03 PM   #1183
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Verizon FIOS in Southern NJ, M-card & TIVO HD, Part III

Just wanted to provide an ambiguous update, patch applied tonight. Now I'll keep a close eye out for any pixelation/macroblocking.
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Old 05-20-2009, 02:34 AM   #1184
richsadams
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Originally Posted by CJDOG View Post
Just wanted to provide an ambiguous update, patch applied tonight. Now I'll keep a close eye out for any pixelation/macroblocking.
Thanks for keeping us posted. Don't do anything to damage your NDA...but it sounds like good news may be in the offing!
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Old 05-20-2009, 09:05 AM   #1185
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I hope I'm not repeating, I searched this thread for SDV and didn't see anything relevant.

I have 2 S3's with 2 S-cards each and a tuning adapter with TWC Greensboro. Things are mostly working fine, but I'm getting pixelation/stuttering of the video/audio intermittently, but ONLY on my SDV channels. Doesn't happen on the non-SDV channels that I can tell. Sometimes it can be almost constant, every 3-4 seconds and go on for 20+ minutes. Then other times not happen at all. Seems worst on BravoHD.

Anyone else hear of this?
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Old 06-02-2009, 10:15 PM   #1186
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Jacksonian,

I'm in Greensboro and experiencing the same issue. I have a Tivo HD with 2 S-cards and tuning adapter. It appears that the problem is only on the SDV channels like you said. Channel 546 is so bad tonight that I'm ready to toss the thing in the garbage. I had TWC out here and they say the signal is fine so I'm not sure how to diagnose the problem. Let me know if you find a solution.

Thanks!
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:34 AM   #1187
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Don't waste your time troubleshooting this if you're sure your signal and cabling is sound. Things will get better in time; just a little more patience and I think you're problems will vanish...
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Old 06-05-2009, 01:53 PM   #1188
richsadams
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Originally Posted by CJDOG View Post
Don't waste your time troubleshooting this if you're sure your signal and cabling is sound. Things will get better in time; just a little more patience and I think you're problems will vanish...
Thanks for the, um...update.
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Old 06-05-2009, 02:54 PM   #1189
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Hi guys.

I have dropped in here from time to time to attempt to pinpoint my troubles with pixelation on Comcast. I have a "hot" signal topping out at 100 at all times resulting in pixelation on a few channels. Attenuators never helped. Do we think any possible fix with cure us all or is it a FIOS specific solution?
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Old 06-05-2009, 10:52 PM   #1190
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I'm having similar issues, although I am a TWC customer. About 3 or 4 weeks ago I started getting this pixelation and macro blocking intermittently. Today I called tivo and ran the diagnostics as things have gotten worse (mostly more annoying) over the last week or so. My signal strength was locked at 100, it didn't move at all. My SNR was locked at 37db. However, I did not get any of the RS connected errors. Tivo said my signal strength is too high and to call TWC. TWC was totally useless...Is this the same problem or is this a seperate issue because I'm not getting any RS connected errors?
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Old 06-05-2009, 11:00 PM   #1191
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If you are not seeing any RS Uncorrected errors, then that means the pixelization and blocking are part of the picture that TWC is sending.
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Old 06-05-2009, 11:34 PM   #1192
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Originally Posted by bkdtv View Post
If you are not seeing any RS Uncorrected errors, then that means the pixelization and blocking are part of the picture that TWC is sending.
So is it just too strong a signal from the line? Tivo seemed concerned that the signal strength never moved from 100 and that the SNR was at 37. I just need to know what I need TWC to correct. As much as I love my Tivo, between this issue and the constant Tuning Adapter issues I've been plagued with, I'm starting to wonder if this was worth it...
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Old 06-05-2009, 11:56 PM   #1193
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So is it just too strong a signal from the line? Tivo seemed concerned that the signal strength never moved from 100 and that the SNR was at 37.
All A/V problems caused by signal issues (such as a "too strong" signal) are represented with RS Uncorrected errors.

If you don't see any RS Uncorrected errors, then your signal is perfectly fine. If you don't see any RS Uncorrected errors, then you see the signal exactly as it is delivered by the cable company. In other words, you are seeing the same picture you'd get with the cable company box.

I'm not familiar with every SDV implementation, but it is possible that TWC now has SDV systems that vary compression level (and thereby quality level) based on channel load within a given area. That would explain PQ degradation with SDV channels on the TiVo and cable company box during peak usage hours.

Edit: The above post assumes that the TiVo actually reports signal errors for SDV channels on the DVR Diagnostics screen.

Last edited by bkdtv : 06-06-2009 at 12:42 AM.
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Old 06-05-2009, 11:59 PM   #1194
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That's what seems strange, because my other tv's (without tivo) work perfectly fine. No pixellation or distortion. If it was coming in from the line, wouldn't they all be affected?

Although, maybe its related to the tuning adapter and SDV only...
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Old 06-06-2009, 12:07 AM   #1195
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That's what seems strange, because my other tv's (without tivo) work perfectly fine. No pixellation or distortion. If it was coming in from the line, wouldn't they all be affected?

Although, maybe its related to the tuning adapter and SDV only...
I suppose it is possible that RS Uncorrected/Corrected error information is not displayed for SDV channels. If that is the case, you might have signal errors that cause PQ problems that don't show up on the DVR Diagnostics screen. I don't have personal experience with SDV in my home, so I can't say whether that is the case or not.

For any comparison, you'd have to compare the same digital channels. TWC doesn't use SDV for every channel. TWC does not use SDV on any local channels, for example.
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Old 06-06-2009, 12:18 AM   #1196
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Yeah I'll have to do some testing tomorrow on non-SDV channels and see what comes up.
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Old 06-09-2009, 01:35 PM   #1197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJDOG View Post
Don't waste your time troubleshooting this if you're sure your signal and cabling is sound. Things will get better in time; just a little more patience and I think you're problems will vanish...


Com'on Tivo, hurry up and make it happen, Northern NJ needs help !!

All my FIOS HD channels are pixellating more than ever

Thank you for the update,

Gman
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Old 06-17-2009, 08:43 AM   #1198
genaman
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Update

Well, after spending countless hours with Verizon. and trying every suggestion on this board, and everything Verizon suggested (and tried at my house for 2 days), nothing solved the problem.

I called Tivo, and after a long battle, convinced them to send me a HD XL to replace my S3 (for $50). They still didn't think it was the unit though.

Set up the new TIVO yesterday...guess what? IT SOLVED THE PROBLEM...

Everything works great, and no attenuators. That is the problem with TIVO...THEY NEVER TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN PRODUCT AND SOFTWARE.

They made me and Verizon waste countless hours when it was their product all along. That's why I hate this company, and that's why I don't think they will survive. Even though they have a product that is great in theory, their customer service and failure to acknowledge their own problems will be major reason for their downfall. TIVO--THERE IS STILL TIME TO CHANGE.

I'm happy it's working, but I will probably get rid of it in a year when my service runs out next year. Not worth the aggravation.
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Old 06-17-2009, 10:58 AM   #1199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genaman View Post
Well, after spending countless hours with Verizon. and trying every suggestion on this board, and everything Verizon suggested (and tried at my house for 2 days), nothing solved the problem.

I called Tivo, and after a long battle, convinced them to send me a HD XL to replace my S3 (for $50). They still didn't think it was the unit though.

Set up the new TIVO yesterday...guess what? IT SOLVED THE PROBLEM...

Everything works great, and no attenuators. That is the problem with TIVO...THEY NEVER TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN PRODUCT AND SOFTWARE.

They made me and Verizon waste countless hours when it was their product all along. That's why I hate this company, and that's why I don't think they will survive. Even though they have a product that is great in theory, their customer service and failure to acknowledge their own problems will be major reason for their downfall. TIVO--THERE IS STILL TIME TO CHANGE.

I'm happy it's working, but I will probably get rid of it in a year when my service runs out next year. Not worth the aggravation.
So I'm assuming you also went from 2 S-cards to 1-M card? Just trying to isolate possible causes. I'd upgrade my S3's to HD's if I knew it would fix the pixellation problem, but I don't think that's been consistent.
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Old 06-17-2009, 11:38 AM   #1200
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So I'm assuming you also went from 2 S-cards to 1-M card? Just trying to isolate possible causes. I'd upgrade my S3's to HD's if I knew it would fix the pixellation problem, but I don't think that's been consistent.
Yes I went to 1 M card. I don't care what they say. In my experience, every issue I have ever had was solved by a replacement unit. This is my 4th in 2 yrs.

I spent $700 for my original unit, plus replacement costs, plus a 3 yr subscription. For that kind of investment, I expect more. Maybe these days consumers have been trained not to expect a quality product anymore. I still expect quality if I am willing to spend my money.
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