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Old 08-01-2007, 01:27 PM   #1
Chimpware
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Do Not Buy A Tivo HD - Main Issue Remedied (Read Entire Thread Please)

I would strongly recommend that anyone considering buying a Tivo HD not do so. I just went through my installation of 2 cable cards each, in the 2 Tivo HD units I bought this past weekend. In both cases Cable Card Slot 2, on both Tivos does not tune most of the digital channels and has heavy pixelation, and Cable Card Slot 1, while it does tune all the stations it is supposed to has pixelation even few minutes briefly. In both cases the Tivo is hooked up to the same cable that I had an 8300 HD on.

I spent a 1/2 hour on hold waiting for Tivo Tech support, who then walked me through reading information off the screen without any ideas as to how to remedy this problem. Eventually I switched the cards in one of the Tivos and called Cablevision to rebind the cards. Cablevision did this not problem, and again Cable Card Slot 2 had same issues. All the people at Cablevision were helpful and in no way did I feel they were adding to the problem so I would use their products and services.

I am convinced Tivo has a serious issue on their hands here. I bought the 2 Tivos from 2 different Circuit City stores this weekend so the odds that 2 separate units from 2 spearate stores exhibit the same issue seems like a big problem. If you check out others experiences on the board you will find very similar results.

I have to say all through this Cablevision was fantastic, the Tech was knowledgeable, and although he had not worked on the HD yet, he had installed cards in Series 3 units before. It appears from my testing that all 4 cards worked, and when I called to rebind I was on hold for only a minute, and only spent a total of 10 minutes on the call.

So if you want to spend multiple days trying to get a new buggy product to work and doing the troubleshooting and development for Tivo, get on board and get a new Tivo HD. If you expect the Tivo experience with this product, where you connect it, it works and the user experience is great, forget it. I take back every bad thing I have said about the SA 8300 HD, as much as I don't like many of the ways it works and find it annoying, it does 1 thing Tivo HD does not, and that is WORK!

Bu Bye Tivo, it was a short return. Good luck with your new products.

EDIT / Update on 9/10/07:
Well in my opinion it is now time to buy the Tivo HD. It has been an interesting journey, but after testing the most recent update over the weekend I am convinced that Tivo has remedied the macroblocking/pixelation issue for the bulk of the remaining users who were still experiencing this problem. I personally came very close to returing the systems, even to the point of have both back in their original cartons, but I kept them and am now happy I did.

As I mentioned earleir in this thread if you have an 8300 HD and want a better experience get a Tivo HD, now ready for primetime (and just in time for the new fall schedule).

Last edited by Chimpware : 09-10-2007 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:34 PM   #2
profet
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man am I getting nervous... cablevision comes saturday with my cablecards...

Oh boy...

Does anyone have a TivoHD with a non pixelated picture from card #2?
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:34 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimpware
I would strongly recommend that anyone considering buying a Tivo HD not do so. I just went through my installation of 2 cable cards each, in the 2 Tivo HD units I bought this past weekend. In both cases Cable Card Slot 2, on both Tivos does not tune most of the digital channels and has heavy pixelation, and Cable Card Slot 1, while it does tune all the stations it is supposed to has pixelation even few minutes briefly. In both cases the Tivo is hooked up to the same cable that I had an 8300 HD on.
This appears to be a known issue with quite a few people mentioning problems with slot-2 pixelation. See the issues thread. This is the risk of buying new hardware and being an early adopter. Undoubtedly, once TiVo reproduces this in the lab, there will be a software patch.
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:43 PM   #4
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I disagree

I'm sorry you are having such problems, I am very satisfied with my Tivo HD. I had a very successfuly cable card install (Comcast with 2 Motorolla cards) and don't experience any source pixelation nor missing digital channels. Hopefully, your problems will be resolved soon.
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:44 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus1ander
...once TiVo reproduces this in the lab, there will be a software patch.
Unless it's a hardware issue.
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:51 PM   #6
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has anyone called Tivo about this issue?
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:52 PM   #7
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Could be this is the problem

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=359993

I experienced problems like this on 2 S3 units, plus a cablecard TV (with no TiVo connected).

I am having no more problems, and the TiVo HD I bought last Friday (two cablecards activated on Monday) is doing fine, no problems at all.

In the cases where some channels don't come in at all, all I can say is that until recently I have had my doubts as to whether my cable company was properly activating the cards. It seems to me that the more of a pain in the butt I became to Comcast, and they figured out that I did not mind at all having a few truck rolls out to my place, that things seemed to work themselves out.

The tiling issue, or pixelation, I think is an issue of channel cramming from the cable company. Again, I was persistant, and things have worked out.

I can understand your frustration, and I can't be sure of your problem, but I really think this might be an issue of cable companies learning to truly support cablecard devices. Kind of like if there was only one web browser, your development and testing of web pages would be simpler. I think cable companies are having to take a deeper look into how their channels are arranged in order to support cablecards in wider range of CE devices.

Of course, if folks get mad at their CE devices and go back to cable in-house equipment, then they won't have to do much at all.

See if your cable company can bring out one of their STB's that use cablecards. I don't know if that will uncover anything. I had this tiling across multiple devices, one with no TiVo involved at all. Eventually, my TiVo S3's stopped having problems. But my cablecard TV (with no TiVo) continued having problems. I actually fixed that remaining issue by ADDING a TiVo HD to it.

I think that as cable companies begin to deploy their own STB's with cablecards, we will see cablecard support in general get much better.
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:53 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brermike
I'm sorry you are having such problems, I am very satisfied with my Tivo HD. I had a very successfully cable card install (Comcast with 2 Motorolla cards) and don't experience any source pixelation nor missing digital channels. Hopefully, your problems will be resolved soon.
Thanks, was very frustrated after 5 hours of trying to get the Tivos to work when I posted. I am glad your experience was/is better than mine. I was just trying to make people aware that if they are thinking that this is a Generation 2 product based on the Series 3 systems and will work seamlessly, it is clearly not. I would not argue whether it could work or not, I am just saying you are really rolling the dice here.

If I were hacking the unit, or trying to enable functions that I was not supposed to be using it would be one thing to have a drawn out troubleshooting experience, but just hooking it up out of the box? Hacking my old DirecTivo to add a larger drive and MRV, etc. was a more seemless and nicer experience than I have had so far.
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus1ander
This appears to be a known issue with quite a few people mentioning problems with slot-2 pixelation. See the issues thread. This is the risk of buying new hardware and being an early adopter. Undoubtedly, once TiVo reproduces this in the lab, there will be a software patch.
Just for the record: I've got a brand new TiVoHD that I bought this past weekend from Circuit City here near me in Houston, Texas. I slotted and bound both CableCards with ComCast, zero problems.

So far I have had 2 spots of pixelation both they were extremely short, and both during severely inclimate weather (heavy heavy rain). I have not seen one stitch of pixelation since that point. I get full digital cable channels on both cards, excellent recording quality.. and full HD channels and HD quality on both cards as well.


So far I am EXTREMELY pleased and happy with my TiVo!
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimpware
I would strongly recommend that anyone considering buying a Tivo HD not do so. I just went through my installation of 2 cable cards each, in the 2 Tivo HD units I bought this past weekend. In both cases Cable Card Slot 2, on both Tivos does not tune most of the digital channels and has heavy pixelation, and Cable Card Slot 1, while it does tune all the stations it is supposed to has pixelation even few minutes briefly. In both cases the Tivo is hooked up to the same cable that I had an 8300 HD on.

I spent a 1/2 hour on hold waiting for Tivo Tech support, who then walked me through reading information off the screen without any ideas as to how to remedy this problem. Eventually I switched the cards in one of the Tivos and called Cablevision to rebind the cards. Cablevision did this not problem, and again Cable Card Slot 2 had same issues. All the people at Cablevision were helpful and in no way did I feel they were adding to the problem so I would use their products and services.

I am convinced Tivo has a serious issue on their hands here. I bought the 2 Tivos from 2 different Circuit City stores this weekend so the odds that 2 separate units from 2 spearate stores exhibit the same issue seems like a big problem. If you check out others experiences on the board you will find very similar results.

I have to say all through this Cablevision was fantastic, the Tech was knowledgeable, and although he had not worked on the HD yet, he had installed cards in Series 3 units before. It appears from my testing that all 4 cards worked, and when I called to rebind I was on hold for only a minute, and only spent a total of 10 minutes on the call.

So if you want to spend multiple days trying to get a new buggy product to work and doing the troubleshooting and development for Tivo, get on board and get a new Tivo HD. If you expect the Tivo experience with this product, where you connect it, it works and the user experience is great, forget it. I take back every bad thing I have said about the SA 8300 HD, as much as I don't like many of the ways it works and find it annoying, it does 1 thing Tivo HD does not, and that is WORK!

Bu Bye Tivo, it was a short return. Good luck with your new products.
Your problems are cable card problems, not Tivo HD problems however nice the tech might be.
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riekl
Your problems are cable card problems, not Tivo HD problems however nice the tech might be.
I have to disagree. Numerous people are having the exact same problem (slot 2 is not working), including myself. When the card is taken out of slot 2 and reprogrammed in slot 1, it works just fine and the "good" card that was working in slot 1 will have problems in slot 2. There are too many examples on this board for this to be a coincidence.
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:15 PM   #12
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Might be premature

Could be combination of the box and the company's cablecards I guess. Seems like if it were either a design issue with the hardware or software then everyone would have it....some are reporting no issues. Will have to follow this closely over the next few weeks. Strange.
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:21 PM   #13
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The design issue is an incompatibility with the TivoHD and the Scientific Atlanta cablecards, notice that people who have motorola cards have no problems, only SA cards.

Cablevision is exclusively SA, I have two SA cards from Cablevision in my TivoHD, both are dead because of firmware upgrades failing, I have my second truckroll scheduled for tomorrow, they installed the cards yesterday, both failed even before the tech left, he had no more. They were supposed to come this morning, and then switched the appointment without telling me to tomorrow morning. I am pretty pissed at cablevision now.
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallguy001
I have to disagree. Numerous people are having the exact same problem (slot 2 is not working), including myself. When the card is taken out of slot 2 and reprogrammed in slot 1, it works just fine and the "good" card that was working in slot 1 will have problems in slot 2. There are too many examples on this board for this to be a coincidence.
I don't know about that. Given that many of us aren't seeing issues of the severity you're reporting, I still say that at least some of the issues relate to the cards or how the cable company provisions them. I have two motorola cards, and I get the pixelization issues, but setup went perfectly and the issues persist whether I have one or two cards in the box. I get service through the local power company rather than Comcast or the others, and they seemed far more competent than the reports I've been reading; I just picked up the cards myself, slapped them in, called the service number, read off the pairing information, and an hour later I was provisioned and running on both tuners. It was so simple that I somehow doubt that the TiVo has much to do with the setup issues, it has to be something wrong with the cards and/or the cable co. Given that they may or may not WANT you to get rid of your box (and along with it the lucrative PPV and On Demand programming premiums), you can't rule out that they make this difficult on purpose.
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:36 PM   #15
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So if there is a problem with slot 2 it sounds like a mutistream card in slot one would be a workaround since you only need one mutistream card for both tuners.
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:42 PM   #16
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Unless the problem is with processing power. If the decoders are being overworked then well... its a hardware problem.
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:42 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostrambler
The design issue is an incompatibility with the TivoHD and the Scientific Atlanta cablecards, notice that people who have motorola cards have no problems, only SA cards.

Cablevision is exclusively SA, I have two SA cards from Cablevision in my TivoHD, both are dead because of firmware upgrades failing, I have my second truckroll scheduled for tomorrow, they installed the cards yesterday, both failed even before the tech left, he had no more. They were supposed to come this morning, and then switched the appointment without telling me to tomorrow morning. I am pretty pissed at cablevision now.
You might be on to something here.
I have 2 Motorola Cards (ComCast Houston uses only these), and so far have zero problems in either slot. My first two cards paired up and started working right off the bat. Still no quality issues either.

If I had an SA Card to test with, I could help test this theory. Unfortunately all I have are Motorola cards.
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:45 PM   #18
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Unless the problem is with processing power. If the decoders are being overworked then well... its a hardware problem.
I thought the TiVoHD has more processing power than the Series 3 not less?
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:49 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TokyoShoe
You might be on to something here.
I have 2 Motorola Cards (ComCast Houston uses only these), and so far have zero problems in either slot. My first two cards paired up and started working right off the bat. Still no quality issues either.

If I had an SA Card to test with, I could help test this theory. Unfortunately all I have are Motorola cards.
There is a definite pattern emerging with the SA cards, if you look through all the threads.
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:49 PM   #20
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I'm getting really nervous now... I've got two Tivo HD's on order and Comcast coming on Friday 8/10. In my area, they only use the SA 8300 boxes, so I would assume that they only use the SA cablecards too. Let's hope I'm wrong.
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:58 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TokyoShoe
You might be on to something here.
I have 2 Motorola Cards (ComCast Houston uses only these), and so far have zero problems in either slot. My first two cards paired up and started working right off the bat. Still no quality issues either.

If I had an SA Card to test with, I could help test this theory. Unfortunately all I have are Motorola cards.
Yeah, maybe a couple of things in our advantage. Motorola cards, and Comcast is a bit more accepting of a world with TiVo in it. I had no problems with my TiVo HD setup, and it has functioned flawlessly. It went more smoothly than my previous S3 setups.
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Old 08-01-2007, 03:04 PM   #22
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Well worse case scenario, you live with some issues until they find a remidy, and eventually your local cable co will have M cards and life will be great again
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Old 08-01-2007, 03:14 PM   #23
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Even using the analog tuner I can see pixelization and tiling when using the zoom/full screen modes. It is not nearly as noticeable in normal aspect mode.
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Old 08-01-2007, 03:15 PM   #24
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Well in my case, tomorrow once I get both cards activated and the firmware works, and all my channels work, I will then check the second card and if it is pixelated I will ask the cable guy if cablevision has any motorola cards, if not then I will call Tivo and tell them about the SA problem.
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Old 08-01-2007, 03:55 PM   #25
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Just to emphasize the point: I really hope that the people having pixelation problems with the #2 card with SA are letting TiVo know. I'm sure that they really want to be able to reproduce the problem in their development lab, so they can fix it. Lots of detailed scenarios are useful. In addition, they have the ability to capture and upload diagnostic logs from customer TiVos, with the owner's consent. Complaining in this forum doesn't help them.
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Old 08-01-2007, 03:58 PM   #26
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Here in new york, definite problems with firmware upgrades using Scientific Atlanta cards. A total mess. I am this II close to just returning the unit and keeping my cable co's dvr until these issues are worked out. My 14 day return window is closing rapidly, and i just don't want to take the chance. I will buy again once it seems the dust has settled.
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Old 08-01-2007, 03:59 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randymac88
Here in new york, definite problems with firmware upgrades using Scientific Atlanta cards. A total mess. I am this II close to just returning the unit and keeping my cable co's dvr until these issues are worked out. My 14 day return window is closing rapidly, and i just don't want to take the chance. I will buy again once it seems the dust has settled.
If my dual card installation on Monday doesn't go smoothly or if they jack with me and try to stick me with bogus charges related to the cable cards, then mine won't get activated until I can get an M-card and Comcast gets their crap together!
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Old 08-01-2007, 04:11 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostrambler
Well in my case, tomorrow once I get both cards activated and the firmware works, and all my channels work, I will then check the second card and if it is pixelated I will ask the cable guy if cablevision has any motorola cards, if not then I will call Tivo and tell them about the SA problem.
your cable company will only be using one brand of cable cards as they need to match up with the head end equipment
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Old 08-01-2007, 04:24 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by CharlesH
Just to emphasize the point: I really hope that the people having pixelation problems with the #2 card with SA are letting TiVo know. I'm sure that they really want to be able to reproduce the problem in their development lab, so they can fix it. Lots of detailed scenarios are useful. In addition, they have the ability to capture and upload diagnostic logs from customer TiVos, with the owner's consent. Complaining in this forum doesn't help them.
I did talk to Tivo today. The rep. I talked to said she received a call earlier about the same exact problem. I was sure to give her specifics. Her only solution right now is to switch out the box. I might just wait it out.
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Old 08-01-2007, 04:43 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by CharlesH
Just to emphasize the point: I really hope that the people having pixelation problems with the #2 card with SA are letting TiVo know. I'm sure that they really want to be able to reproduce the problem in their development lab, so they can fix it. Lots of detailed scenarios are useful. In addition, they have the ability to capture and upload diagnostic logs from customer TiVos, with the owner's consent. Complaining in this forum doesn't help them.
when TiVo says it is a known issue that means they have reproduced it in the lab.
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