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Old 07-27-2007, 09:13 AM   #241
gbronzer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clark_kent
From what I've read about the new TiVoHD, it has different QAM tuners, different tuner support chips, and maybe (probably?) different QAM tuning firmware then what the S3 has. My question for the best-of-the-best is: will the new TiVoHD fair better with clearQAM reception then the current S3?
I don't know about compared to the S3 since I don't have one, but it tunes QAM just fine. I'm waiting for my cablecard install, but I had it scan the channels and it found a ton of them. Most are bogus or encrypted, but the main ones like NBC, ABC, etc. come in just fine. Problem is there's no way for me to tell Tivo that 3-1 is NBC HD, so no guide data. It seems to tune the QAM channel relatively quickly. I don't get the sense that it can tell the difference from an encrypted/non-encrypted QAM given the number of bogus channels it found.
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Old 07-27-2007, 10:03 AM   #242
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I picked up my brand new TiVo HD from Circuit City in Houston, Texas. (Most all Houston locations have plenty in stock, if anyone cares.) I also purchased the TiVo Wireless G adaptor.

Got it all setup, got my CableCards Paired, wireless network adaptor up and working like a charm. I am a first time TiVo Buyer with this, and I have to say I am already VERY impressed with the functionality of this wonderful device. Heck, I've already spent 30 minutes this morning from work just scheduling more recordings remotely from the MyTiVo website (MAN is that a fun feature!)
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Old 07-27-2007, 10:07 AM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clark_kent
I started a thread (clearQAM troubles) but soon realized that this thread is where the best-of-the-best TiVo technical types are hanging out. I don't want to bore everyone here with what I already posted regarding my S3 clearQAM troubles, but hope you all pardon my re-posting my TiVoHD QAM related question here:

From what I've read about the new TiVoHD, it has different QAM tuners, different tuner support chips, and maybe (probably?) different QAM tuning firmware then what the S3 has. My question for the best-of-the-best is: will the new TiVoHD fair better with clearQAM reception then the current S3?

Thank you all for your comments.
You should at least add a link to your previous thread, no?
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=360226

Anyway, you have a specific problem with the S3 working with the signals on your system. It isn't a widely reported problem with other cable systems and S3. You will likely only get a useful answer if you find someone else with the same problem with their S3, then purchased an HD, and was able to verify the problem was gone. The chances of that combination happening is very slim on any thread here. So the answers to your question will predominantly be S3 tunes clearQAM fine for me and HD tunes clearQAM fine for me, which doesn't really help you.

I would report the problem to TiVo and see if they can help diagnose the problem, possibly by examining the log files your unit generates (but you don't have access to)

As a quick summary, the problem clark_kent was encountering is during a clearQAM channel scan, some channels show up as channel 0. Some other devices in his house scan the same channels with proper channel #s. Personally, I've seen this problem happen on TVs when the PSIP is malformed, but make no claim this is the cause of clark_kent's specific problem. I just offer it as a direction to investigate.
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Old 07-27-2007, 10:25 AM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clark_kent
...
will the new TiVoHD fair better with clearQAM reception then the current S3?
...
I doubt it. Clear QAM issues have to do with how the cable company sets up the PSIP virtual channel tables and the missing Tivo ability to identify a given virtual channel with the published guide data (unless the virtual channel corresponds to the channel number requested of a cable box). And the latter, if prsent, would do no good if your Tivo sees channel 0 (ie bad PSIP table).

Edit: I went back to your orginal thread and was reminded that only S3's seemed to suffer from the channel 0 syndrome. While my statements above are correct as far as they go, a different QAM tuner chip may do away with channel 0 issue.

I don't think anybody has ever figured out if the problem is in software or in hardware. If in hardware, it's possible that somewhere along the line Tivo could have gotten a corrected chip to use in new production units (call them S3a units, known only by their serial #). Since your S3 appears to be relatively new, it seems that this is still an issue. Maybe they couldnt do a chip swap on the production line. Maybe that was another reason to rush out the Tivo HD: to avoid the embarassment for a chip flaw. If it was in software, I assume they would have fixed that, even if they didn't address the guide data problem. Those looking for bad actors might say that developers were using the chip problem to avoid addressing the guide data issue, which itself could have been addressed by the cable companies.

It will be interesting to see if the channel 0 issue appears with the Tivo HD.

I still think that you should report the channel 0 issue to the cable comapny and require them to fix.

I used to think that Tivo should not spend the money to address the guide data issue. However, having seen how the cable companies have taken active steps to make it hard to figure out how to tune to a given cable channel on clear QAM tuners and the FC's total lack of interest in consumer equipment issues, now apparently extending to allowing cable companies to technologically bypass 1996 federal law, I think Tivo should step up to the plate.

It doesn't affect me, but I think Tivo should step up to the plate on this one.

OTOH, maybe the Tivo HD software addresses the guide data issue and S3 Classsic users will see it soon.

Last edited by vstone : 07-27-2007 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 07-27-2007, 10:30 AM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TokyoShoe
I picked up my brand new TiVo HD from Circuit City in Houston, Texas. (Most all Houston locations have plenty in stock, if anyone cares.) I also purchased the TiVo Wireless G adaptor.

Got it all setup, got my CableCards Paired, wireless network adaptor up and working like a charm. I am a first time TiVo Buyer with this, and I have to say I am already VERY impressed with the functionality of this wonderful device. Heck, I've already spent 30 minutes this morning from work just scheduling more recordings remotely from the MyTiVo website (MAN is that a fun feature!)
Welcome to the TiVolution!

(First time I've gotten to say that. It's been a while. )
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Old 07-27-2007, 01:55 PM   #246
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OK, it's been three days.

The online docs for the TiVo HD talk about firing it up a couple of days before your Cable Card install to make sure any software updates get applied. Could there be an 8.3 update for the HD already? Maybe with the unsupported eSATA hack? Please?

-Matt
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Old 07-27-2007, 01:59 PM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstone
OTOH, maybe the Tivo HD software addresses the guide data issue and S3 Classsic users will see it soon.
Anyone know if there is a difference in how the TiVo HD handles this?

I think an update to this would be VERY welcome for many users (I know it would be for me ).
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Old 07-27-2007, 03:32 PM   #248
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I'm bummed. CircuitCity.com wouldn't let me use my 10% coupon online, and a few hours later I checked local store availability and my local store is now showing sold out. Guess I'll have to wait a few days.

---------
Update: bought a 10% coupon off ebay for $2, and hit my local best buy. Not sure if they had more in the back, but I got the last one on the shelf.

Last edited by wizzy : 07-27-2007 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 07-27-2007, 03:35 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by wizzy
I'm bummed. CircuitCity.com wouldn't let me use my 10% coupon online, and a few hours later I checked local store availability and my local store is now showing sold out. Guess I'll have to wait a few days.
You can buy it online and then have them refund the difference when you pick it up. I just did that today. Bought online drove 30 miles and then plunked the coupon down. I should have waited as another CC 5 miles away now has them in stock. Evidently they are flowing into the Boston area today and tomorrow.
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Old 07-27-2007, 04:17 PM   #250
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Just got my Tivo HD..anyone recommend a good and small antenna to pick
up OTA HD? I've got a decent location to grab some HD signal..
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Old 07-27-2007, 04:40 PM   #251
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See my answer in the other thread you asked this in. It much easier to keep the discussion in one place.
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Old 07-27-2007, 05:08 PM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TokyoShoe
I picked up my brand new TiVo HD from Circuit City in Houston, Texas. (Most all Houston locations have plenty in stock, if anyone cares.) I also purchased the TiVo Wireless G adaptor.

Got it all setup, got my CableCards Paired, wireless network adaptor up and working like a charm. I am a first time TiVo Buyer with this, and I have to say I am already VERY impressed with the functionality of this wonderful device. Heck, I've already spent 30 minutes this morning from work just scheduling more recordings remotely from the MyTiVo website (MAN is that a fun feature!)
Congrats - nice to see a first-time buyer and welcome to TCF.

As much as you like the Tivo HD now, I'm guessing you'll like it more when the GUI performance improvements from the 8.3 level of code show up.

So many of us here are long time, multiple Tivo owners, it's nice to hear from someone whose first exposure to Tivo is the new HD box.
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Old 07-27-2007, 05:10 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Globular
OK, it's been three days.

The online docs for the TiVo HD talk about firing it up a couple of days before your Cable Card install to make sure any software updates get applied. Could there be an 8.3 update for the HD already? Maybe with the unsupported eSATA hack? Please?

-Matt
I set mine up yesterday and forced a few connections. No software update yet.
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Old 07-27-2007, 05:43 PM   #254
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sfhub: thank you for posting the link, I didn't think I had enough "seniority" to be able to insert a link.

vstone: could you please elaborate on how to tell one S3 from another, in particular, how do you identify a S3a? Thank you.

randomsolutions has posted in the "clearQAM troubles" thread:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=360226
that he just got his brand new TiVoHD hooked up on TWC in San Diego and got a ton of channel "0" so it would seem that the TiVoHD does not work any better then the S3 for clearQAM.

vstone: the channel guide problem is trivial to fix. All TiVo needs to do is allow us to manually "map" a QAM channel # to the local EPG guide (provided TiVo identifies a real # instead of a goose egg).

Given cableco's hostility (and manipulative/deceptiveness) to anyone or anything other then there own box, I don't understand why TiVo doesn't rain all over there parade. If cableco's are "required" to provide proper PSIP and they are providing "good" PSIP for everything except "local" channels that are "supposed" to be in the "clear" on QAM and only those clearQAM channels have something wrong with the PSIP, I would think it would be slam dunk cause for action from TiVo.

Another question to those that are more technically inclined: if I tune a clearQAM channel # and get a black screen, why does that channel then "tune-in" by going to the "signal meter" and getting a signal strength reading?
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Old 07-27-2007, 05:51 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfh3
Congrats - nice to see a first-time buyer and welcome to TCF.

As much as you like the Tivo HD now, I'm guessing you'll like it more when the GUI performance improvements from the 8.3 level of code show up.

So many of us here are long time, multiple Tivo owners, it's nice to hear from someone whose first exposure to Tivo is the new HD box.
Thank you for the warm welcome. The only hitch I am running across is the lack of TiVoDesktop software for Vista. However, I am seeing moderator posts indicating this software version is coming "Very Soon" (tm). Hopefully it's a week or less away, I'm really itching to try out some of those features.


Regarding the 8.3 software update: Is it out already, and will my TiVo auto-grab it? Or will I have to "force the download" on the unit?
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Old 07-27-2007, 06:19 PM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clark_kent
vstone: the channel guide problem is trivial to fix. All TiVo needs to do is allow us to manually "map" a QAM channel # to the local EPG guide (provided TiVo identifies a real # instead of a goose egg).
I'm not sure how your cable company works, but in my area about once a month I can expect the channels to change positions with no warning, so I'd personally prefer the PSIP information work properly and a PSIP-based solution to channel mapping than the manual mapping. If I could have both, then that would be even better.
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Old 07-27-2007, 06:33 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by sfhub
I'm not sure how your cable company works, but in my area about once a month I can expect the channels to change positions with no warning, so I'd personally prefer the PSIP information work properly and a PSIP-based solution to channel mapping than the manual mapping. If I could have both, then that would be even better.
Even if the PSIP is correct, you still have to tell the TiVo to rescan the digital channels to find the relocated QAM channel. In the meantime, you are likely to miss recordings. I think I'm stuck with CableCards.
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Old 07-27-2007, 06:44 PM   #258
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sfhub: I would also much prefer proper PSIP solution as well as manual editing. Given the current state , the quickest and simplest “fix” is for TiVo to give us the ability to manually “map” QAM channel # to the local EPG. It may be a pain “re-map” every time the lineup changes, but it would be better then what we got now.
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Old 07-27-2007, 06:46 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by c3
Even if the PSIP is correct, you still have to tell the TiVo to rescan the digital channels to find the relocated QAM channel. In the meantime, you are likely to miss recordings. I think I'm stuck with CableCards.
If TiVo were to add a feature to support PSIP-based channel mappings, they should automatically rescan for you at appropriate hours like 5am. They don't have to scan the whole range all the time, just for channels that have PSIP information, check once a day to see if the channel tuned has the PSIP information it previously had. If they all do, you are done. If not, trigger a rescan of the range. Alternately if new PSIP information is added all the time during some transition period, give the option to do full rescan every time. There is also a quicker fallback method that checks alternate streams in the same channel if the PSIP information doesn't match. My TV does this. Even if the ordering within the same RF channel changes, it shields me from the change, allowing me to use the old channel mapping. If the station moves to a entirely different RF channel then I need to rescan. This check can be done at record time.

Between these 2 techniques TiVo should be able to catch most of the changes.

Last edited by sfhub : 07-27-2007 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 07-27-2007, 06:50 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clark_kent
sfhub: I would also much prefer proper PSIP solution as well as manual editing. Given the current state , the quickest and simplest “fix” is for TiVo to give us the ability to manually “map” QAM channel # to the local EPG. It may be a pain “re-map” every time the lineup changes, but it would be better then what we got now.
Quickest and simplest conceptually from the user's standpoint doesn't always translate to quickest and simplest for implementation. The feature you suggest has been high on the request list for over 10 months ever since the S3 came out and nothing has been done in this area, not even verbal commitments.

Last edited by sfhub : 07-27-2007 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 07-27-2007, 06:51 PM   #261
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I just hooked up my new box. I popped the CableCard I had in my TV into the Tivo. I was surprised that it worked! I didn't even have to call the cable company. I thought it was paired with the TV.

Oh well, I'll have to pick up a 2nd CableCard tomorrow. For now, it works great!

One bummer. Once you install the CableCard, it tells you to run Guided Setup again or it won't work right. When I try to run Guided Setup, it says its unavailable because the Tivo is currently connecting to the Tivo Service - Try Again Later.
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Old 07-27-2007, 06:55 PM   #262
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Your area likely hasn't turned on the copy protection system yet. If that is turned on (something you may not get warning of), the pairing information becomes relevant and channels with non-zero CCI will have problems. Channels with non-zero CCI tend to be premium channels like HBO, Showtime, etc. but the cable companies aren't always consistent and sometimes those channels have CCI=0. If it hasn't been turned on the behavior will be as you noticed and you can move CableCARDs around to different units with no immediate ill effects.

Last edited by sfhub : 07-27-2007 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 07-27-2007, 07:04 PM   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clark_kent
Another question to those that are more technically inclined: if I tune a clearQAM channel # and get a black screen, why does that channel then "tune-in" by going to the "signal meter" and getting a signal strength reading?
After tuning to one of these problem channels what do you see when you go to Diagnostics and look at PID entries? i.e.
TiVo Central->Messages&Settings->Accnt and System Info->Diagnostics
Look for PID entries. The PCR and Video numbers need to match up for the channel to properly display on the Tivo. If these numbers don't match there is your problem. Check the numbers when the screen is black and again after your workaround fix of using signal meter to see if they then match up. In an older thread someone had this issue and managed to get hold of someone technical at his headend to get the problem resolved (by a headend fix).
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Old 07-27-2007, 07:22 PM   #264
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TiVoJerry had some discussion of the PIDs here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...&&#post4856711
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Old 07-27-2007, 07:36 PM   #265
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Unless the FCC gives them a waiver - yes.

But most small cable systems - like those that only serve one apartment complex, or one small town, etc - have waivers. The FCC didn't want to force them to make the major investments in new infrastructure as it would be an undue burden for small companies.

The waivers expire eventually, and the generally idea is that these vendors will update over time as there is a natural hardware refresh process.
I see. There are some condo complexes here that do that.

Us? We deal with Bright House. I figure there will be lots of input from others.

Thanks for all your info mega!
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Old 07-27-2007, 07:38 PM   #266
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I'm still on the fence wondering if it's best to cancel my present contract before the end of my month or to keep it and transfer it. I have been told to buy elsewhere and transfer. But I don't understand why keeping the present (new) 3-year contract is better than canceling and then getting new service on the new tivo?
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Old 07-27-2007, 07:43 PM   #267
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But I don't understand why keeping the present (new) 3-year contract is better than canceling and then getting new service on the new tivo?
It's not, other than having to call TiVo to cancel.
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Old 07-27-2007, 11:45 PM   #268
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moyejk: thanks for that post.

when I have a “black” screen on a QAM channel, the PCR, aPID and vPID are all showing a “-“ mark. After the “signal strength” test, the PCR and vPID are the same but the aPID is different. In one case the PCR/vPID was 69 and aPID was 72 while in another case the PCR/vPID was 74 and the aPID was 75. So, what light does that shed on what may be going on? Thanks.
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Old 07-28-2007, 04:58 AM   #269
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It's not, other than having to call TiVo to cancel.
Thanks! I've been wondering if there was something I had missed in the contract.
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Old 07-28-2007, 06:56 AM   #270
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Wow...the Tivo HD is great. I had a DirecTV tivo for a year, went to cable tv dvr and now back to Tivo and I couldn't be happier!
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