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Old 07-15-2007, 08:06 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgould
What's the benefit if the HDD is the same size as Motorola 6412 Comcast DVR, when by then the Moto box will run Tivo software also?
Some of the biggest issues with the Motorola DVRs are likely to be in firmware, and therefore won't be affected by the deployment of TiVo software on them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgould
90% of the benefit of S3 over the Moto box is the bigger HDD and stable interface.
I agree with you, but a lot -- a lot -- of people here feel that the Motorola DVRs are little better than doorstops. While we disagree with them, we still have to respect their personal preferences in this regard as justification for the market for the S3-lite @ $299, even if configured as per this latest report.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgould
Kind of hard to justify $300 price over a free Comcast DVR...
True, also there is no monthly price advantage either:

With the TiVo:
$8.95 for TiVo (with a three-year commitment)
plus $5.50 for Comcast for two CableCards*;
With the Comcast DVR:
$13.72 for Comcast (with no commitment)
-- though that fee from Comcast is going to be going up soon
* For those who want to figure it with one CableCard included, you need to recompute the Comcast DVR numbers to match:

With the TiVo:
$8.95 for TiVo (with a three-year commitment)
plus $2.75 for Comcast for one additional CableCards;
With the Comcast DVR:
$9.95 for Comcast (with no commitment)
-- though that fee from Comcast is going to be going up soon
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgould
but the TTG/MRV news if true is very welcome indeed (and that WOULD make a big difference to getting a real Tivo Lite box vs Comcast box.)
I doubt that this is the intended market for the box, but surely if MRV works with HD recordings, I think that would represent a pretty significant motivation for current S3 owners to get an S3 Lite.
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Old 07-15-2007, 08:06 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandenurse
I don't understand why once we have the HD DATA ( either from the CC or Sat box, that DIGITAL DATA can not be recorded to the hard drive.

Isn't Digital Data, digital data. Why would it cost 2x the price to add that feature?
Digital Data is digital data. Digital data as it enters the home is compressed, as it goes to the TV (via HDMI, etc) is not compressed. Recording non-compressed HD would require exceedingly large hard drives, compressing the video in real time would require technology which is exceedingly expensive.

DirecTV and DISH do not allow TiVo to record the compressed signal.
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Old 07-15-2007, 08:08 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scustin
I have no inside news but expect announcements in the next month or so.

As of March the FCC no longer allows TV equipment to be manufactured with only analog tuners. Anything already in the warehouse can continue to be sold, but stores are required to post signs warning consumers that all broadcast TV is scheduled to be digital in Feb 09.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scustin
So TiVo and the rest have chosen to stay mum, offer big discounts and hope to get rid of as many of the discontinued models as possible over the summer.
TiVo hasn't sold a DVR which is affected by the FCC ruling re:analog tuners for some time.
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Old 07-15-2007, 08:09 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Arcady
So I won't be able to tune any of the analog cable channels?
Just one data-point: We've never used the analog tuner in our S3. YMMV, of course, but in the interest of substantiating a price difference between S3 and S3 Lite, removing the analog tuners is not a bad approach IMHO.
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Old 07-15-2007, 08:10 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by MickeS
I'm sorry, but... WTF? No analog tuner? That doesn't make any sense. It can't be right.
I believe my Cable Cards receive all of the channels offered by my cable service provider, Brighthouse networks. I'm guessing the lack of an analog tuner would be a don't care since I'll receive all of the programming via CC.
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Old 07-15-2007, 08:12 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by moyekj
NOTE: The real cost savings there is not getting rid of NTSC tuners, it's the mpeg encoders.
Thanks for that clarification.
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Old 07-15-2007, 08:16 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by sandenurse
I want to know...why the S3s don't do satelites? Why is Tivo denying the consumers an option to swich sources.
You've got it backwards: The satellite services have closed their doors to TiVo.
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Old 07-15-2007, 08:29 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by jfh3
I'm amazed that anyone still bothers to read "news" from Swanni, one of the most clueless and pompous industry wannabe's out there.
Say what you will, but unlike many other "industry wannabes," he responds to reader's emails, and...well, his site was the first I'd heard of the new TiVO Lite. So I guess he's accomplishing what he wants, and that's inform.
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Old 07-15-2007, 09:43 AM   #69
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My cable company has 100% digital simulcast in my market, so I'd be very interested in this box.
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Old 07-15-2007, 10:35 AM   #70
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How do we know if our analog channels are being digital simulcast? I asked a Comcast CSR a few months ago, but itwas obvious that she had no idea what I was talking about.
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Old 07-15-2007, 10:43 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by mike_camden
How do we know if our analog channels are being digital simulcast? I asked a Comcast CSR a few months ago, but itwas obvious that she had no idea what I was talking about.
If you currently have a cable company set top box (or know someone who has one) you can check the box diagnostics while tuned to channels in the analog lineup to see if they are digital or not. For example, if diagnostics report modulation scheme as QAM then you know they are digital. This is how I was originally building up my spreadsheet for my local headend (in my sig). For the Motorola DCTxxx or DCHxxx series you can find details here of getting to diagnostics:
http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/d...ips_and_Tricks

Obviously with the S3 it's a lot easier to tell from the diagnostics menu if you are tuned to digital or analog stations (among other methods).
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:06 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hybucket
Say what you will, but unlike many other "industry wannabes," he responds to reader's emails, and...well, his site was the first I'd heard of the new TiVO Lite. So I guess he's accomplishing what he wants, and that's inform.
And then folks come here and we repair the damage.
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:09 AM   #73
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If this thing doesn't record/encode analog cable it is going to be a flop. It might not even sell as many as the S3, and that would be disasterous.

I can't imagine there is a snowball's chance in hell it is going to turn out that way.

So now I've set myself up for looking stupid.
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:20 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by HDTiVo
If this thing doesn't record/encode analog cable it is going to be a flop. It might not even sell as many as the S3, and that would be disasterous.

I can't imagine there is a snowball's chance in hell it is going to turn out that way.

So now I've set myself up for looking stupid.
What is your reasoning behind this? Most cable cos are moving to a 100% digital delivery model so analog receivers with internal MPEG encoding just doesn't make a lot of sense from a ROI perspective.

VR, Sam
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:33 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbiller
What is your reasoning behind this? Most cable cos are moving to a 100% digital delivery model so analog receivers with internal MPEG encoding just doesn't make a lot of sense from a ROI perspective.

VR, Sam
First, there is a lot of debate about that. The FCC Commissioner might want one thing. The rest of the Commission another. Congress may want a third. No one knows what will happen.

Second, it isn't done now, however TiVo is selling the box now. Maybe they could sell that in one or two years, at which point this box is obsolete anyway from a competitve standpoint; we're already onto the S3-Lite2.

Third, the family of parts TiVo uses to build these machines has all the functionality built in. I can't see more than a trivial amount of cost savings.

To offer a box which will not fully satisfy a large portion of the cable market for virtually no cost advantage would be crazy.
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:45 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_camden
How do we know if our analog channels are being digital simulcast? I asked a Comcast CSR a few months ago, but itwas obvious that she had no idea what I was talking about.
Here is another a little bit more clear guide to determining whether a station is true digital or just a remapped analog.

For those systems using Scientific atlanta equipment (Time Warner for example), here is the guide for those folks.

Cablecard subscribers of analog remain at near 50%, and it will be a while before cable cajoles them all into taking an stb for all of the TV sets in their home which will otherwise go dark.

Personally, I am skeptical about this rumor about Tivo lite being all digital, although it is concievable Tivo could chop out those chips from the low end and put analog hookups on a premium S3 that supported satellite as well as cable. Folks wanting analog support without a cable STB could use the S2 DT. So it would give a spread of product offerings.

I think the most important new Tivo coming is one No One is talking about and everyone has access to (that is, everyone except Comcast Tivo lite). It's Tivo's other half- you use it whenever you use Swivel search, and it's one honking piece of iron that has virtually limitless application possibilities.
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:46 AM   #77
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Just to be sure I am understanding....

Any channel that I can get with my current S3 through the cable cards, I will be able to pull with this new receiver?

Essentially in my case would only lose OTA HD but could use comcast for local HD?
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:53 AM   #78
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No. Because your cablecard could be mapping an analog channel. As far as you know it is a digital channel, because your lineup says it is in the digital tier, and you are tuning a different number than the analog customers tune to.

If you are curious about a channel, go to it on the S3 and hit record. If it asks you what quality to record at, its an analog channel.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:32 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by jfh3
Another thought - if the S3lite is indeed as rumored and is at $299, why would Tivo continue to market the S2DT?

Does the S3lite become "the" TiVo box?
Only if it supports external STBs.

Now, they they could make a tunerless Series 2 with only one A/V input for cable, satellite, or IPTV box, but I don't think they'd do that.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:41 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Arcady
What I mean is that I shouldn't have to re-encode video through a hacked firewire interface that ignores macrovision in order to get an Amazon unbox video onto a DVD. I paid for the video; I should be able to do what I want with it for my own personal use.
No, you paid that price for the right to use the video in a limited fashion for personal use. If you want fewer restrictions, you would pay more from the provider of the video for that right, or purchase from another source or medium that has fewer restrictions. And claiming "personal use" changes nothing. And if you want a DVD, you go buy the DVD.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:45 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by sandenurse
I don't understand why once we have the HD DATA ( either from the CC or Sat box, that DIGITAL DATA can not be recorded to the hard drive.

Isn't Digital Data, digital data. Why would it cost 2x the price to add that feature?
Satellite receivers don't put put MPEG2 though. The output either analog or HDMI, both of which are uncompressed straight video.

The only cost effective video to encode is SD video, which the Series 2 does just fine.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:49 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by sandenurse
I want to know...why the S3s don't do satelites? Why is Tivo denying the consumers an option to swich sources.
Because the Series 2 does satellite.

The Series 3 is made to directly tune digital/ analog OTA and/or cable.
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:14 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by sandenurse
I don't understand why once we have the HD DATA ( either from the CC or Sat box, that DIGITAL DATA can not be recorded to the hard drive.

Isn't Digital Data, digital data. Why would it cost 2x the price to add that feature?
Satellite data may be digital, but it is also encrypted. Satellite providers like Dish Network (and now DirecTV) have refused to provide Tivo access to their encryption systems, hence Tivo has no way to decrypt and display that digital data.

The Tivo Series2 is able to record analog SD output from a Dish or DirecTV STB. However, recording high-definition analog output from a Dish or DirecTV STB is very expensive (and involves quality loss), as noted by other posters.

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Old 07-15-2007, 01:17 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Mike Lang
I have all the info you guys need, I'm just not allowed to actually tell you any of it.
Now Mike, that's not nice!! Speak through your dog or something!
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:32 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by scustin
This quiet period will also allow TiVo to take advantage of a new generation of hard drives to reduce component costs without cutting capacity. Anything less than 250gb will have limited functionality in the digital era, especially on multi-tuner models.
Which is why the idea of anything less than 250GB in the S3lite doesn't make any sense, unless there is a significant cost savings by going with a smaller drive.
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:45 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by classicsat
No, you paid that price for the right to use the video in a limited fashion for personal use. If you want fewer restrictions, you would pay more from the provider of the video for that right, or purchase from another source or medium that has fewer restrictions. And claiming "personal use" changes nothing. And if you want a DVD, you go buy the DVD.
Tell me where to buy video without all these silly restrictions, and I will. And the movie I bought from Amazon is only available from two places: Amazon and iTunes. The DVD doesn't come out for months.

Apple has started on the right path by offering music without all this DRM nonsense. Hopefully it is the first step in unencumbering consumer electronics and opening things up so people can use content they purchase however they want. TiVo seems to be going in the other direction.
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Old 07-15-2007, 02:00 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by HDTiVo
So now I've set myself up for looking stupid.
Funny -- I was thinking the same thing!
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Old 07-15-2007, 02:19 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by gatorbait
Just to be sure I am understanding....

Any channel that I can get with my current S3 through the cable cards, I will be able to pull with this new receiver?

Essentially in my case would only lose OTA HD but could use comcast for local HD?
You would not lose OTA HD, that would be included.

If the Tivo does not have an analog tuner you would lose the analog channels, even if using the CC.
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Old 07-15-2007, 02:49 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by sbiller
What is your reasoning behind this? Most cable cos are moving to a 100% digital delivery model so analog receivers with internal MPEG encoding just doesn't make a lot of sense from a ROI perspective.

VR, Sam
Some are moving to 100% digital delivery, some are moving certain channels. But MOST cable companies still offer SIGNIFICANT content on analag. Also, MOST cable companies charge a LOT more for digital cable, cable cards, etc.

No way am I going to pay an extra $50/mo just to get the 'digital tier' to use my TiVo... Analog for the handful of cable channels I watch on occasion is fine. OTA-HD is all I need.
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Old 07-15-2007, 02:53 PM   #90
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Many of the channels in my "digital" tier (over 70 channels in fact) are actually analog. This is on Time Warner Cable in Dallas, not some rinky-dink cable company.
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