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Old 07-28-2008, 12:48 PM   #1771
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M-K-L-I-T-T
Freaking hilarious!!!
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Old 07-28-2008, 01:11 PM   #1772
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Though I feel your pain, I doubt that anyone will roll these things out to their subscribers much before mid-Fall.
TW Rochester is already using SDV - has been since last fall. But my understanding is Rochester NY may have been a test market for TW SDV. Lets hope for all you folks about to get it that the Tuner Adapter shows up from you Cable provider before SDV hits your area.
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Old 07-28-2008, 02:19 PM   #1773
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TW Rochester is already using SDV - has been since last fall. But my understanding is Rochester NY may have been a test market for TW SDV. Lets hope for all you folks about to get it that the Tuner Adapter shows up from you Cable provider before SDV hits your area.
At the bottom of the FAQ in the top post of this thread, bdraw lists some of the systems where SDV is known to be fully deployed. He hasn't updated that list in a few months and I think that there were more than he lists even then (for instance, it doesn't list TWC Oceanic in Hawaii, which was one of the more draconian SDV deployments, taking every HD channel away from CableCARD using subs).

Switched broadcast supposedly goes online on TWC San Diego today, so I'm going to lose access to 45 channels on my TiVo, 3 or 4 of which I was using. It doesn't seem to have gone online yet, and hopefully it won't before Torchwood airs on HDNet at 4:00 .
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Old 07-28-2008, 03:08 PM   #1774
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Thank you to everyone for being helpful!

The "tuning resolver" as it is now called may be ready for beta testing the end of the 3rd quarter. It will not necessarily be beta tested in San Antonio.

However I am now on the list for when it is field tested here. I have unsubbed from this thread now because while there is substance, there is too much chatter and I now have the contact info I need for TW San Antonio to stay on top of this on my own.

Thanks again.
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Old 07-28-2008, 03:14 PM   #1775
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mklitt, it's actually called the "Tuning Adapter"; "Tuning Resolver" was its original name, which appears to have changed sometime around the end of February.
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:42 PM   #1776
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I have unsubbed from this thread now because while there is substance, there is too much chatter and I now have the contact info I need for TW San Antonio to stay on top of this on my own.
Gosh, I feel so used.
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Old 07-29-2008, 11:24 AM   #1777
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Full initial deployment of switched broadcast appears to have started, one day later than stated in the notice (fine by me, since it allowed me to record one last episode of Torchwood on HDNet ). I've lost access to the HD VIP Pak and all of the Sports Pak except for Tennis (the only one that I regularly watch). Very strange, and I'm not expecting that to last. Nice, for however long it lasts, since Tennis is currently covering early round matches at the Cincinnati AMS tournament.

Oh well. Bring on the Tuning Adapter!
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Old 07-29-2008, 07:23 PM   #1778
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You are right jrm01. I did mean TECHNICALLY NOT REQUIRED since this isn't an issue with the original equipment they provided with the service. It’s just here in the San Antonio, TX area, they have been adding more and more channels on SDV. As of right now, I am missing out on 30+ channels (roundabout guess), using the TiVo HD box. Before I switched to the HD TiVo, I had a Series 2 for more than 5 years. I loved it too much to just give up on it and start using the horrible equipment TWC supplies. So I will just sit here, continuing to pay for service and wait for a resolution to this problem. Suppose I just needed to complain a little. You know, “the squeaky wheel gets the grease”.

But thanks to those who responded with some bit of updated information on the matter. I just got tired of trying to keep up with all of it and hoped that someone had a little more determination to stay informed on all this stuff.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:57 AM   #1779
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Comcast appears to be going the all digital route first, then may add SDV when needed later. Opinion: They probably ran the numbers and found this method cheaper and/or irritated less fanchise authorities when you look long term at Tru2way TV sets. They can probably recycle some old SD digital STB's to serve remaining analoh TV sets.
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:10 PM   #1780
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I got the 9.4 update last night. I notice an added "Tuning Adapter" item on the "Account & System Information" menu. Selecting it displays a dialog with the big heading "No Tuning Adapter" and an explanation of what a Tuning Adapter is. Promising. (No doubt this has been covered in the 9.4 update thread, but I thought it was worth a mention here ).
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Old 07-30-2008, 06:34 PM   #1781
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and I have seen on Gizmolovers where Cox Phoenix area has sent out Email to customers about the tuning resolver. Here in Northern Virginia they proclaim ignorance if you ask them, like their corporate offices haven't told them anything out here in the backwoods of fairfax county. We haven't gotten any of the new HD channels added since last spring since they deployed SDV here. FiOs is tantalizingly close to my neighborhood....but not here yet.

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Old 08-03-2008, 08:04 PM   #1782
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My street was dug up last week in preparation for FIOS. I've been a Cox NoVA customer for the past 10 years. We'll see what the coming weeks brings but competition is a wonderful thing.

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Old 08-05-2008, 02:37 PM   #1783
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I am in Greensboro, NC and plagued by the SDV thing. I am missing a ton of channels and it stinks.

One thing I had a question about, is that sometimes some channels work and other times they don't. When someone else in my neighborhood is using the channel, does it become available to me as well, and likewise, if nobody is using the channel I can't watch it?
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Old 08-05-2008, 03:00 PM   #1784
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I am in Greensboro, NC and plagued by the SDV thing. I am missing a ton of channels and it stinks.

One thing I had a question about, is that sometimes some channels work and other times they don't. When someone else in my neighborhood is using the channel, does it become available to me as well, and likewise, if nobody is using the channel I can't watch it?
Well, it will be on the wire, but (in the absence of the Tuning Adapter) there's no way of telling on what frequency it might be placed or as what program in the MPEG Transport Stream on that frequency. I don't have an explanation for why you can get some channels sometimes and sometimes not.
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Old 08-05-2008, 04:16 PM   #1785
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perhaps they are still deciding what to do SDV and what to leave linear? So sometimes they switch what is sdv and what is not?
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Old 08-05-2008, 04:17 PM   #1786
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Well, it will be on the wire, but (in the absence of the Tuning Adapter) there's no way of telling on what frequency it might be placed or as what program in the MPEG Transport Stream on that frequency. I don't have an explanation for why you can get some channels sometimes and sometimes not.
Could it be that the CableCard channel map has a fixed frequency still for some or all of the SDV channels (instead of being absent completely) and so once in a while the frequency matches up to one of the switched frequencies? For my headend when I tune an SDV channel and look at Tivo diagnostics it shows tuning failure and no frequency for that channel indicating there is no mapping for that channel at all.
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Old 08-05-2008, 06:59 PM   #1787
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I just noticed that in the CableLabs certification list of devices, there is now an additional column entitled Tuning Adapter Capable and only the Tivo THD & S3 devices have Yes in that column. I guess that means the Tivo devices now are officially certified as Tuning Adapter Capable thus clearing another milestone for general release.
http://www.cablelabs.com/udcp/downloads/OC_PNP.pdf
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Old 08-05-2008, 08:34 PM   #1788
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I am in Greensboro, NC and plagued by the SDV thing. I am missing a ton of channels and it stinks.

One thing I had a question about, is that sometimes some channels work and other times they don't. When someone else in my neighborhood is using the channel, does it become available to me as well, and likewise, if nobody is using the channel I can't watch it?
The VP of Engineering for Time Warner Raleigh region explained to me a few months back that the SDV solution they are rolling out will allow them to dynamically adjust what is SDV and what is not. At that time, they hadn't decided what to map where but he pointed out that it could be decided on a node by node basis using viewing statistics. It would not be "real-time" but could be adjusted fairly regularly. One of the examples he mentioned was the Olympics could drive viewing patterns that varied by node.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:29 PM   #1789
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Ahhh.. so, I guess maybe it switches on and off from time to time. It seems to be very frequent, but then again I don't pay that close of attention to it.
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Old 08-07-2008, 03:13 AM   #1790
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Well, it will be on the wire, but (in the absence of the Tuning Adapter) there's no way of telling on what frequency it might be placed or as what program in the MPEG Transport Stream on that frequency. I don't have an explanation for why you can get some channels sometimes and sometimes not.
If the stream is unencrypted, then the TiVo user can receive it if he happens to run across the stream. There have been other reports of some CATV systems sending out SDV content unencrypted.
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:04 AM   #1791
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Time Warner Cable of Southwest Ohio just sent a letter saying it will switch a large number of "little used" channels to SDV on Aug 15th. The reason is to fee up bandwidth for more HD channels. Letter lists the channels and says the tuning resolver for TIVO will be available at an undetermined time after the switch. The current plan is to not charge for it TR.
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Old 08-07-2008, 11:30 AM   #1792
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Really? They are suggesting that the dongle we need to deal with the SDV issue is going to be free? That's pretty exciting news, but I am not sure I believe it either.
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Old 08-07-2008, 12:15 PM   #1793
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Really? They are suggesting that the dongle we need to deal with the SDV issue is going to be free? That's pretty exciting news, but I am not sure I believe it either.


search a bit-

this is not the first mention from a major cable company that they plan to be free.

(of course who knows if that "PLAN" plays out- but for now it sounds like we might get lucky and they'll be free....)

Thinking about it- Do they even get authorized? Or are the adapters/resolvers just a translator? I’d assume all the authorization is still handled in the cablecard.

If so and they don’t need to authorize them, it might just not be worth the effort of messing around with billing systems. Likely if they tried to charge anything significant- the fcc would get bent (as I am under the impression the FCC hinted that cablecards need to be kept ‘affordable’ so as not to be a barrier to 3rd party entry). There’s not all that many tivo’s in the world- so if there’s only a handful in each head end then is it worth the effort to have to change and update the billing system to charge 1 dollar a month?

Maybe they will just hand them out like amplifiers and splitters. You need one- here take it. I think technically they can charge for those but I don’t think they do regularly. Granted the tuning adapter might cost 100 and a splitter 2 bucks. But you hand out 50 splitters or 1 adapter and it’s still 100.

So maybe free is logical too…..

(although I just thought some more and I guess it needs to be authorized some how so it send the signal back to turn on SDV channel X to node Y?)

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Old 08-07-2008, 04:02 PM   #1794
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I think that the Tuning Adapter is probably pretty damn inexpensive. The typical cable modem has all the necessary hardware and you can buy those retail for about $30.

Right now, the demand for them is going to be pretty low--if every CableCARD-using TiVo owner wanted one, they'd only need some 100,000-200,000 or so, nationwide--peanuts for the MSOs. However, the cable industry has offered them up as a solution for engineering low-end television products capable of tuning switched broadcast; if the FCC and CE OEMs take the bait, there could be a ton of out-of-the-box Tuning Adapter-compatible devices on the market soon.
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:52 PM   #1795
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Will be interesting if the low end tv's bother with the usb ports and required computing power for cablecards and tuning adapters.

I was under the impression they wouldnt, but i guess there's no other way to make a sort of cable ready tv really for cheap.

I think the adapters will cost like 60-70 bucks since i think in moto's case they seem to have taken much of a low end box (dct7000?) that they used to sell for around that price range. I'm sure they stripped out some of the unneeded stuff but then had to put in the usb controller and other chips. And they'll be selling them in 10's or 100's quantities instead of 1,000's like the digital box it's based on used to be done in. I believe in their waiver filings cable or moto told the fcc those dct7000 boxes cost 60 or 70.


but all just guesses on my part.
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Old 08-07-2008, 09:22 PM   #1796
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Thinking about it- Do they even get authorized?
They will probabaly have to cooperate in obtaining a network address so switching can be implemented (essentialy an ARP), but otherwise, perhaps not. Depending on the implementation, the TA itself may not obtain and retain any info itself from the transaction. All that could be stored in the Tivo.

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Or are the adapters/resolvers just a translator?
It's more of an intelligent modulator.

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I’d assume all the authorization is still handled in the cablecard.
If you mean the de-encryption, then yes, it is, but the tuning request is created by the TiVo and then passed to the TA.

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Maybe they will just hand them out like amplifiers and splitters. You need one- here take it. I think technically they can charge for those but I don’t think they do regularly.
'Depends on the provider. Some do, some don't.
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Old 08-07-2008, 09:43 PM   #1797
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Will be interesting if the low end tv's bother with the usb ports and required computing power for cablecards and tuning adapters.

I was under the impression they wouldnt, but i guess there's no other way to make a sort of cable ready tv really for cheap.
There is no "required computing power" for tuning adapters--it's a protocol involving the exchange of very small amounts of information and basically no computation. I could be wrong, but I don't believe that CableCARD interface is that big of a deal, particularly since they can use the Unidirectional CableCARD host interface, tens of millions of which have been put into Digital Cable Ready televisions and STBs over the past few years. The cost is negligible in comparison to the cost of implementing <tru2way> in a usable fashion, which requires bi-directional CableCARD Host Interface 2.0, a pretty fast processor, lots of memory and a license for an execution environment for a Java profile.
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I think the adapters will cost like 60-70 bucks since i think in moto's case they seem to have taken much of a low end box (dct7000?) that they used to sell for around that price range. I'm sure they stripped out some of the unneeded stuff but then had to put in the usb controller and other chips. And they'll be selling them in 10's or 100's quantities instead of 1,000's like the digital box it's based on used to be done in. I believe in their waiver filings cable or moto told the fcc those dct7000 boxes cost 60 or 70.


but all just guesses on my part.
I'm guessing too, but I think that what both Moto and Cisco did was take the closest thing that they were already making and reduce the internals, keeping the same enclosures, since they were buying a ton of them for another product. I doubt that the board inside bears a lot of resemblance to the DCT700 and half the electronics of a cable tuning STB has no use in the application whatsoever: the MPEG decoder, the sound processor, the graphics processor and any graphics memory, the IR receiver, display LEDs, etc, etc. I'm sure that they ripped all of that off of the boards for the Tuning Adapter, as well as all the headers for A/V output.

You can see a picture of the back of Motorola's DCT700 STB here and one of the back of the MTR700 Tuning Adapter here--though they're in the same little plastic box, it's pretty clear that the board inside is very much different. I'm sure that something very similar was done by Cisco for the STA1520, which is stuffed into the enclosure for the RNG 100 STB. The price of manufacture for the two will be fairly unrelated.

Designing a custom enclosure and board of the smallest possible size would have required a lot of time and cost a lot of money, and I feel certain that they were ordered to keep the development time and manufacturing cost of the product at a minimum, since the cable providers were planning to charge nothing (or very little) for the devices.
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Old 08-08-2008, 11:15 AM   #1798
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The low end TV set manufacturers won't even have Cablecard at all, let alone bothering to support the SDV adapter.

For the sets that do have Cablecard and a USB connector, the manufacturers likely won't bother to support SDV. They would have to write and test code, and likely get it certified by CableLabs, as well as distribute it to sets, and the infrastructure isn't really there, except for a thumb drive upgrade.
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Old 08-08-2008, 05:53 PM   #1799
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The low end TV set manufacturers won't even have Cablecard at all, let alone bothering to support the SDV adapter.

For the sets that do have Cablecard and a USB connector, the manufacturers likely won't bother to support SDV. They would have to write and test code, and likely get it certified by CableLabs, as well as distribute it to sets, and the infrastructure isn't really there, except for a thumb drive upgrade.


thats what i was trying to say-
classicsat said it much better.

a couple years ago you could buy an analog tv in a supermarket. THey were all over and cheap. SOme for like 50 bucks. THere's no point in making a 50 dollar tv into a 100 dollar tv for cable's sake I'm guessing. The cheapo manufacturers will leave it on people to rent cable/sat boxes i think.
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Old 08-08-2008, 07:31 PM   #1800
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The low end TV set manufacturers won't even have Cablecard at all, let alone bothering to support the SDV adapter.

For the sets that do have Cablecard and a USB connector, the manufacturers likely won't bother to support SDV. They would have to write and test code, and likely get it certified by CableLabs, as well as distribute it to sets, and the infrastructure isn't really there, except for a thumb drive upgrade.
At the end of 2006, the CE OEMs (through the CEA) complained to the FCC that implementation of <tru2way> was too expensive specifically for inclusion in low-end products. They asked for the a cheap-to-implement, inflexible set of protocols for SDV, IPPV and VOD as an alternative, which they called "Digital Cable Ready Plus". That was actually going to have to include support for new bidirectional CableCARD interface.
For this article on the controversy:
Quote:
On the CEA side, Sony Electronics complained in a Nov. 29 filing that the cable industry's OpenCable Platform is a “one-size-fits-all/take-it-or-leave-it solution that is designed to further entrench cable's market power by all but foreclosing competition and innovation.”

OpenCable requires too much processing power and memory to feasibly use in low-end and mid-range consumer electronics, said CEA vice president of technology and standards Brian Markwalter. “OpenCable is a Swiss Army knife,” he said. “There's a whole middle ground — 80% of the customer base — that doesn't need what is essentially a computer in the device.”
Apparently they don't even like the price of implementing <tru2way> in the mid-range. Since that was published the NCTA got Sony to agree to support <tru2way> and abandon DCR+.
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