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Old 10-23-2007, 08:00 AM   #511
holligl
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Let me ask the question differently.

If a channel you are supposed to receive does not come in, how can you determine if it may have been switched to SDV?
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Old 10-23-2007, 09:02 AM   #512
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Originally Posted by holligl
Let me ask the question differently.

If a channel you are supposed to receive does not come in, how can you determine if it may have been switched to SDV?
Other than calling the cable company and asking I don't know of any fool proof method. If it works on the cable box but doesn't work on your Tivo its a sign but not proof. Could still be cable card problems.
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Old 10-23-2007, 09:58 AM   #513
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Originally Posted by holligl
Is there a posting, by region of the Comcast Stations going to SDV?

We are in the Suburban Chicago area, and I went back through the thread to August and did not find anything about the Chicago area.

Our ESPN2 HD has begun to experience occasional outages, and the Encore channels show a cable card message referencing the fact this is a one way RF device, and to contact the Cable Company. Issue is on both the THD w/MCard and the Cable card TV. Smells like SDV, but we have experienced tons of other issues going to Digital service and HD with Comcast. Most involve sending a tech out when it is a headend problem.
The Chicago cable plant appears to be the flagship Comcast system. Since you lost your analog channels on July 1, I'm pretty sure that you are near the top of the list for SDV.
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Old 10-24-2007, 07:03 AM   #514
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Originally Posted by vstone
The Chicago cable plant appears to be the flagship Comcast system. Since you lost your analog channels on July 1, I'm pretty sure that you are near the top of the list for SDV.
In the Chicago area, the suburbs still have the analog service too. The city has gone digital only.
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Old 10-24-2007, 08:03 AM   #515
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Where are you Tuning Resolver????
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Old 10-24-2007, 09:10 AM   #516
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Where are you Tuning Resolver????



TUUUNING RESOLVERRRRRRRRRRRR!
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Old 10-25-2007, 05:46 AM   #517
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Unfortunately, at least in the short-term, this IS a no-win-scenario. I suspect we'll see the tuning resolve eventually, but not soon enough for some folks.
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Old 11-03-2007, 10:57 PM   #518
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Has anyone heard of an ETA on the tuning resolver? I've seen a lot of talk about it, but no dates. Also, when it does come out, will it be a TiVo product that one has to buy, or will it be a cable company product for them to rent out?

It seems like it would really be in TiVo's interest to get these out there quickly. Not having cablecard functionality fully usable must be a big drag on TiVo HD sales.
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Old 11-04-2007, 05:12 AM   #519
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No, there has been absolutely no official information released about an ETA for the tuning resolver -- not even a commitment by any specific cable company to make it available.
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Old 11-04-2007, 05:56 AM   #520
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There is no evidence yet that it has even gone past the concept stage. Until there is a working prototype I am an unbeliever.
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Old 11-04-2007, 06:03 AM   #521
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The Chicago cable plant appears to be the flagship Comcast system. Since you lost your analog channels on July 1, I'm pretty sure that you are near the top of the list for SDV.
If a cable system axes the analog bandwidth won't they then have more than enough freed bandwidth for all the HD channels that are available?
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Old 11-04-2007, 08:14 AM   #522
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If a cable system axes the analog bandwidth won't they then have more than enough freed bandwidth for all the HD channels that are available?
Yes, but they'd rather piss off the few people using cablecards than the large number of people they've sold on cable as a no-box-required solution to getting dozens of channels, compared to satellite/U-verse (always requires a box per TV) or even broadcast (handful of channels now, box required after analog broadcast goes away).
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Old 11-04-2007, 08:48 AM   #523
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If a cable system axes the analog bandwidth won't they then have more than enough freed bandwidth for all the HD channels that are available?
The FCC has passed a measure to disallow cable to "axe the analog bandwidth" (or at least some of it) until 2012, three years after the over-the-air analog shutdown. For at least at least the basic tier, they're being forced to convert the digital transmissions into analog and put that on the wire. This is to allow the 60% or more of television viewers in this country who use cable some time to adjust and continue to use any legacy analog televisions they might have with cable.

Even without the FCC's dictates, cable really can't afford to suddenly stop analog. The fact that some part of their service works by just plugging an old television into a wire is an advantage for them; without it, they'll doubtlessly lose a significant number of subs.

In the meantime, DirecTV is boasting that they've already added 70 new HD channels and will add another 30 by the end of the year. If they don't respond in kind, cable will lose (other) subs. Although I'd love to hate SDV and call it a unnecessary, nefarious plot by cable to screw me and other unidirectional CableCARD equipment users over, there really doesn't seem to be any other way for them to remain competitive.
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Old 11-04-2007, 11:13 AM   #524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyts
The FCC has passed a measure to disallow cable to "axe the analog bandwidth" (or at least some of it) until 2012, three years after the over-the-air analog shutdown. For at least at least the basic tier, they're being forced to convert the digital transmissions into analog and put that on the wire. This is to allow the 60% or more of television viewers in this country who use cable some time to adjust and continue to use any legacy analog televisions they might have with cable.
Still, there's almost no reason to have to remove the entire analog selection in order to make enough room for the HD channels. Most cable systems could easily recover as much as 60-70 analog channels and still be leaving 25-35 channels available for analog retransmission. And since there's really on 50 or so HD channels in existence (sorry, just can't count Voom), plus applicable regional broadcast stations and sports networks, there's no need to remove even half that many analog channels at the moment.
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Old 11-04-2007, 11:45 AM   #525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyts
The FCC has passed a measure to disallow cable to "axe the analog bandwidth" (or at least some of it) until 2012, three years after the over-the-air analog shutdown. For at least at least the basic tier, they're being forced to convert the digital transmissions into analog and put that on the wire.
Note that the measure you refer to explicitly stated that cable could either convert the digital transmissions into analog at the head-end, and pass them along to customers as analog signals in the coax OR pass them along to customers as digital signals in the coax, and convert them to analog via a STB. The regulation didn't even explicitly require that the STB be specifically affordable. That FCC decision was generally recognized as a rare win for cable.

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Even without the FCC's dictates, cable really can't afford to suddenly stop analog.
Though they've done exactly that, in Chicago.
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Old 11-04-2007, 12:01 PM   #526
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Though they've done exactly that, in Chicago.
That's just one city out of all the places cable serves. It's basically a drop in the hat if you count all the cable subscribers in the U.S. It could be an experiment or maybe Comcast determined that there were a low number of analog cable users there.

I'm assuming in other areas analog cable is more prevalent. The only reason my parent's got a cable box is because their TV broke and they bought an HD TV and got the box so they could get the HD basic channels (they don't subscribe to digital cable). In my area you could still get HBO without a converted box until about a year ago when they moved it to digital only.
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Old 11-04-2007, 02:58 PM   #527
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That's just one city out of all the places cable serves.
One of the largest cities in the country. If they can do it there, they can do it anywhere.

Anywhere.

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I'm assuming in other areas analog cable is more prevalent.
Don't assume.
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Old 11-04-2007, 03:33 PM   #528
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One of the largest cities in the country. If they can do it there, they can do it anywhere.
Yes, but they haven't. As of right now, it's just one city. Get back to me when they start switching over more areas.
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Old 11-04-2007, 03:38 PM   #529
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Get back to me when they stop deploying SDV.
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Old 11-04-2007, 03:58 PM   #530
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Perhaps

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Originally Posted by bicker
One of the largest cities in the country. If they can do it there, they can do it anywhere.

Anywhere.
Maybe. Maybe not. First of all, just because it is one of the largest cities in the U.S. does not necessarily mean the penetration in that market is correspondingly good for the CATV provider in question. It doesn't mean it isn't either, of course. I for one just do not know. It could be the provider in question has a comparatively low revenue share in Chicago. I know it's true for our company. We make more money in many other comparatively smaller US cities than we do in Chicago.

Secondly, the fact they have done it in Chicago does not necessarily mean they have been successful doing it in Chicago. Maybe they have, and maybe they haven't. I just don't know, so I won't assume.
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Old 11-04-2007, 04:03 PM   #531
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SDV Standard

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Originally Posted by robojerk
Where are you Tuning Resolver????
Until the CATV companies all convert to a single SDV standard, I doubt the tuning resolver will get off the ground, and even if it does it's not going to help a large percentage of TiVo users unless they develop more than 1 resolver.
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Old 11-04-2007, 04:04 PM   #532
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Get back to me when they stop deploying SDV.
I think most people wouldn't begrudge the cable companies deploying SDV IF they had made a solution like the tuner resolver available concurrently with their SDV deployment.
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Old 11-04-2007, 04:07 PM   #533
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Until the CATV companies all convert to a single SDV standard, I doubt the tuning resolver will get off the ground, and even if it does it's not going to help a large percentage of TiVo users unless they develop more than 1 resolver.
That was the reason that I understand why the resolver would be obtained from your cable company. I wouldn't think the hardware would be any different for the various SDV protocols; they would just have to have the appropriate firmware in it to map from a generic protocol over the USB, to the specific SDV protocol over the cable.
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Old 11-04-2007, 04:09 PM   #534
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San Antonio

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Originally Posted by dswallow
Still, there's almost no reason to have to remove the entire analog selection in order to make enough room for the HD channels. Most cable systems could easily recover as much as 60-70 analog channels and still be leaving 25-35 channels available for analog retransmission. And since there's really on 50 or so HD channels in existence (sorry, just can't count Voom), plus applicable regional broadcast stations and sports networks, there's no need to remove even half that many analog channels at the moment.
I don't know about most, but I do know there are many which cannot. San Antonio is one of them. The analog selections in San Antonio only go to channel 72. They could recover perhaps 30 analog selections, allowing about 60HD channels. The thing is, SDV allows thousands of "channels". Every VOD or Video Redo selection is a separate "channel",and deploying VOD and Video Redo on a broad scale requires SDV.
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Old 11-04-2007, 04:14 PM   #535
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SDV systems

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That was the reason that I understand why the resolver would be obtained from your cable company. I wouldn't think the hardware would be any different for the various SDV protocols; they would just have to have the appropriate firmware in it to map from a generic protocol over the USB, to the specific SDV protocol over the cable.
I'm afraid you think wrong. The hardware for the two main systems, Scientific Atlanta / Cisco and Motorola are incompatible. Although somewhat similar, the two are different at the hardware level, not just the software level. There are no doubt others, although the number is definitely limited.
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Old 11-04-2007, 04:35 PM   #536
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Most people

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Originally Posted by CharlesH
I think most people wouldn't begrudge the cable companies deploying SDV IF they had made a solution like the tuner resolver available concurrently with their SDV deployment.
Most people don't care one way or the other, since the issue does not impact them. Indeed, most are unaware there is even an issue. It is quite unfortunate for us TiVo owners, but nonetheless true that most CATV subscribers don't care whether TiVo users are left in the cold, or not, and the revenue impact from disgruntled TiVo users is relatively small. Our only silver lining lies in three facts:

1. Although comparatively small, the revenue tied to our activities may not be considered trivial. The CATV companies aren't going to bend over backwards for us, but if meeting our demands doesn't cost them too much time, trouble, and money, they may be willing to acquiesce. The margin may be thinner, but as long as it isn't zero - or worse negative - they may well be willing to consider our requests.

2. Although small in number and in total represented revenue, TiVo users tend to represent the top end of the monetary pyramid, and no company wants to alienate rich clients, no matter how little revenue they may generate. They are, after all, the ones who do the investing, and they control much more capital individually than the less affluent individuals. Everyone knows biting the hand which feeds you is a really bad idea, but biting the hand which houses you is also not a really good one.

3. As a group, I think TiVo users tend to be vocal, and we all know which wheel gets the grease. Although of relatively low impact to the CATV company's revenue stream, from a PR perspective alienating TiVo users may not be considered the smartest move they could make, and keeping us happy and quiet has some very real value in it. We just should not overestimate that value.
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Old 11-04-2007, 04:56 PM   #537
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It is quite unfortunate for us TiVo owners, but nonetheless true that most CATV subscribers don't care whether TiVo users are left in the cold, or not, and the revenue impact from disgruntled TiVo users is relatively small.
You need to be a bit more specific. It is only HD Tivo owners who are being left out in the cold and that is a very small number compared to all Tivo owners.
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Old 11-04-2007, 10:36 PM   #538
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I'm afraid you think wrong. The hardware for the two main systems, Scientific Atlanta / Cisco and Motorola are incompatible. Although somewhat similar, the two are different at the hardware level, not just the software level. There are no doubt others, although the number is definitely limited.
That must be why you need to specify which system you have when you buy an S3... oh wait, you don't! Must be those standards they use...All that the SDV needs to do is provide the standard transmit hardware called for in the cablecard spec for a 2-way host, and the differences between systems is either software or completely handled by the cablecard. The hardware is trivial but I'm sure the testing and qualification is not.
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Old 11-05-2007, 05:50 AM   #539
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I think most people wouldn't begrudge the cable companies deploying SDV IF they had made a solution like the tuner resolver available concurrently with their SDV deployment.
True, but that won't necessary affect whether or not they actually deploy SDV... they've made no assurances to that effect. Folks should be prepared for SDV to be deployed in their area, without a tuning resolver offering available.
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Old 11-05-2007, 09:28 AM   #540
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Back to the Box?

OK, I understand (basically) what's going on with our TiVo box, given this discussion: we're in Cox's N.Va. (Fairfax) area, and now that they've gone to switched digital signals, we're losing an enormous amount of functionality. BTW, we haven't just lost the signals that another poster mentioned would be SDV; we've lost all of the HD channels, HBO... every single channel over 102 seems to be grey. In addition, for some reason NBC -- not HD, basic NBC, channel 4 -- is also not being processed by our Series 3.

Needless to say, this is frustrating enough that I'm trying to think of SOME temporary fix. I don't see any really suggested in this forum. Should I give up on HD and just go back to having a cable box? Is the cable box even compatible with the Series 3 TiVo? Is my problem related to the fact that I have one of the earlier Series 3 boxes? If so, would it be fixed by getting a box that's fully compatible with the M CableCards?



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