Problem: Intermittent black screen on new Series 3

mriechers · 06-15-2007, 10:12 AM

I have a new Series 3 which I've had activated / running for about 48 hours now. Running on 2 cable cards with HD service, Cox Cable.

Problem is, the screen goes black on me intermittently for short periods, with no rhyme or reason. It is as if the output is interrupted somehow.

I don't even know where to start diagnosing this problem. It happens over HDMI and component connections. When it happens, the audio continues un-interrupted, even in 5.1 on an HD channel, so I think its a video-only problem.

Is this likely a problem with the TiVo, Cable cards, or service provider (Cox)? Any suggestions?

(sorry, cross-posted from Help forum, they recommended I post here)

mvnuenen · 06-16-2007, 12:31 PM

As there have been no replies yet I will give it a shot. When you say intermittently black, is this while watching a show? Or is it while changing between menu's or channels? If it is the latter, try setting your video output "fixed" to the best resolution of your tv.
If it is during regular watching, check the signal strength of your cable. Mine is 97 and I don't suffer from black outs or pixelation. If you feel your signal strength is too low, remove splitters (if present) or get a home amplifier (I got mine from TWC for free). Lastly, make sure that all cords are seated snugly.

mriechers · 06-16-2007, 03:23 PM

Thanks for the attempt, but not quite. More info:

Signal strength as measured by TiVo is 96 - 100. Most of the time it just stays at 100. Even on HD channels. I don't think that's a problem.

I am curently using 1080i fixed mode. The blackouts happen while watching TV on any channel, not while changing channels.

I am not using any splitters.

Symptoms happen over both HDMI and composite connections. I currently have both connected. I have tried with only 1 (either way) and it still does not go away.

I am beginning to fear this is a TiVo problem, not cable. It happened both while I was on 8.01 firmware and 8.03.

Cox Cable has reset (re-initialized?) both cable cards twice over the phone for me, that has not solved it either. I have a Cox technician coming tomorrow to boost the physical strength of the signal coming into the house, as that was all they can think of past the electronic tests, diagnostics, and reset signals they've sent. In all fairness, they have been very helpful as I've called them 3 times to complain, so far thinking this was due to something with the cable service. It may still be, but I'm worried more its the TiVo now.

I am going to call TiVo customer service now and see what they have to say.

Mach1_8 · 06-16-2007, 04:37 PM

I just got my new series 3 set up this week and was having a similar issue over HDMI. To test if it was a recording or playback issue I would hit replay right after the "glitch" to see if there was good video data. There was...everytime I hit the replay button, the missing video would appear. That led me to believe it was a playback issue, so I put the thing in standby, disconnected the HDMI and hooked up my component out. Since then, not one problem. I'd be more inclined to do something about the HDMI issue if my HDMI input on my TV wasn't already occupied with a HDDVD player. Bottom line, try to verify if it's a recording or playback issue...if it's playback try disconnecting the HDMI and see if that helps. Good luck.

mriechers · 06-16-2007, 05:51 PM

I've tried that too. Watching the US open this afternoon, the problem was occuring (as usual). The issue happened over both HDMI and composite. I did the replay idea (that just occurred to me today) and I noticed that while rewinding I could see the video, but when I hit play, it went black again over the affected area.

I told all of this to the TiVo service rep. He has recommended I exchange the cable cards with my cable company. If that does not work, they are going to RMA my tivo.

This is not looking like an easy fix as I had hoped.

jrm01 · 06-16-2007, 07:37 PM

Mach1_8 suggested you use the component connection and you answered that you tried the composite connection.

Have you tried Component (Red-Blue-Green).

mriechers · 06-17-2007, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrm01

Mach1_8 suggested you use the component connection and you answered that you tried the composite connection.

Have you tried Component (Red-Blue-Green).

Sorry, I mis-spoke in posts #3 and #5, I was tried on component connection as well as HDMI, as I said correctly in post #1. I have yet to do anything over composite (single rca) and hope never to use it.

I still confuse the two connection types occasionally when speaking / typing.

stevil · 06-17-2007, 03:55 PM

I may be having the same issue on my new S3. My TV screen blacks out during very bright (white) points in scenes, or cuts between scens/angles, only in 1080i mode while watching HD channels.

I'm connecting using Component inputs (I don't have HDMI).

Rewinding over the same points in the broadcast will repeat the issue. I can even pause it on a black area.

I have tried with the tivo set at both 1080i Hybrid and 1080i only mode with the same results.

if I set the Tivo to be 408p or 480i, it will not do this.

Have you tried setting your TIVO to 408p or 480i only? Just to see if it duplicates the issue?

I have Cox cable. With my Cox HD DVR it would not do that. It also doesn't happen when watching DVD's on my PS3 (or PS2) or Series 2 Toshiba Tivo/DVD player, or when watching Blue-ray discs on my PS3.

My HDTV is a Sony (circa 1999).

moyekj · 06-17-2007, 06:55 PM

I had this exact issue (periodic video blackouts with no audio interruption) with my S3 hooked up to an older Philips 30" LCD via component. I assumed it was the S3 that was the problem however now that S3 is hooked up to a different TV (a 47" Westinghouse 1080P LCD) and guess what - I have not had any blackouts that I remember since. What was strange is that same 30" TV never seemed to have such a problem when hooked up to ReplayTV, DVD and an ATSC tuner, so I had always assumed it was an S3 problem. So I'm not sure what to conclude other than perhaps a combination of the S3 and the TV were the problem. To confuse things even more I now have a 2nd S3 hooked up to the 30" LCD and have not noticed the problem (granted I don't watch it as frequently anymore). If you have the means/opportunity try hooking up that S3 to a different TV to see if the problem happens.

mriechers · 06-18-2007, 08:48 AM

Thanks for the input guys. Stevil, Mine goes black during high motion / high white-color sequences primarily as well. It also does regardless of output mode, I've tried Native, 1080i Hybrid, and 1080i Fixed. Still does it, on both cableCARDS, on both HD and analog signals (happens on Spike TV too).

My TV is a Sony Sony KDS-R50XBR1. Basically its a 1 year old 50" SXRD Grand Wega.

Cox Cable came out yesterday and tried to diagnose again. Signal is strong to the house and the box, cable cards are in good working order, no other TVs display the symptoms, and hooking up a Cox HD Cable box the problem does not happen. I believe this is a TiVo S3 problem now. Since the audio continues to work through the blackout periods, and the blackouts happen mostly during high intensity sequences, I'm concerned it could likely be a faulty component in the video processing stream. I'm going to try to get it RMA'd today.

stevil · 06-18-2007, 05:58 PM

Mine did it once on 480p while watching a HD program (Star Wars III). I think the "high intensity" sums it up nicely because it seems to be high contrast change and during action sequences as well. I couldn't finish watching Star Wars in HD as it kept cutting in and out during lightsaber sequences and other action scenes and scenes of high contrast. it's never been longer than a few seconds.

Do you recall where your TIVO was made? My remote had a "made in Korea" sticker (maybe they are all made there, but I recall reading that some come from Mexico too) . I wonder if there are some quality assurance issues with a batch?

It's like the signal coming out of the Tivo is too hot.

mriechers · 06-18-2007, 10:07 PM

I spoke with TiVo again today and they RMA'd my unit. I'll be getting a new (not refurbished) replacement. The rep said this was an "unusual" case, and something he'd never heard of, and he supposedly put a note for them to examine the unit when they get it back. Its nice that they at least pretend to care about new issues.

2 of the reps I talked to through this process mentioned that a significant # of the TiVo S3s they are RMA'ing have been sold by amazon.com (where I got mine). Just a word of warning, they may have gotten a bum batch, or are otherwise not treating them the best at their warehouse. I'll post again here when I have my new TiVo and any updates.

stevil · 06-18-2007, 10:25 PM

I ordered mine from Amazon too. I will be contacting Tivo soon to find out about a replacement.

mr2828 · 06-19-2007, 07:33 PM

I got my first S3 Friday, and yesterday it developed what seems to be a permanent black screen/no signal on the 2nd tuner. This is with OTA/analog cable, but no cable cards. I tried rebooting, no luck. The signal strength on the working tuner shows as 95 to 97 on almost all channels, yet none work on the 2nd tuner.

Amazon is sending a replacement.

visionary · 06-19-2007, 08:52 PM

When you set up these new machines, be sure to allow ANTENNA input, with cable, and then put an antenna on it and tune your strongest over the air station. See if it has this issue. If it does, its Tivo, I bet it won't. Cox may be amplifying the cable signal in a NON-LINEAR fashon that makes the bright scenes go over what level the standard is, and having an over-air station can prove this. By the way, if you can get the stations over-air, do so. It is a better picture and if your cable goes out in a storm you still get all your network shows recorded.

mriechers · 06-19-2007, 10:17 PM

Good suggestion, but I'm an anti-OTA guy. The days of antennas are long past in my book. I might use this in a diagnostic-only fashion if the woes continue, but I am hopeful they are past me.

stevil · 06-20-2007, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by visionary

Cox may be amplifying the cable signal in a NON-LINEAR fashon that makes the bright scenes go over what level the standard is, and having an over-air station can prove this.

Ok - I understand this... assuming there is an amplification, is there a filter that would cap it at some kind of threshold?

mriechers · 06-27-2007, 10:13 PM

OK, Bump...

I had to travel for a few days but I'm back now. I setup my RMA replaced tivo S3 (they shipped me a new retail black box with all the goodies!) and guess what... SAME PROBLEM. In addition, this one has now hung (picture freeze + no remote input + clock freezes on current time and does not update) TWICE in the last 24 hours.

Am I cursed? I can't figure out what else could be the cause of the blackouts. I will be calling COX again to have them out to swap out the cable cards again.

Could someone point me at a quality cable line filter / splitter device I can use in my basement to split the outside cable runs instead of the cableco supplied 1 -> 4 splitters? Beyond trying one of these (and more cablecards) I'm at a loss.

TiVo I don't want to have to RMA again! Say it ain't so, where's my no-duh easy fix.

stevil · 07-05-2007, 03:02 PM

That's a bummer... I was waiting to find out the results of your RMA before I did one of my own. I'm beginning to suspect that my problem isn't necessarily a TIVO problem but may be cable company signal or very likely TV related.

I've experienced the same issue (although only once or twice) playing blue-ray movies on my PS3 and also just had issues when playing the Transformers video game on PS3. The picture has also blacked out while watching digital standard definition TV at 480p. I haven't experienced it with analog signals.

My thinking is the signal is just too "hot" for the TV to handle when bright white areas are in the scene.

mriechers · 07-05-2007, 04:59 PM

stevil,

My problems continue. After almost 2 weeks of just "dealing with it" I decided to do more testing of what it could be. Reminder for anyone reading this, that this is my 2nd TiVo S3 and the problems are still there.

I removed both cable cards and repeated guided setup, this time setting the S3 up for analog cable only, with the no cable card setup. I did the whole thing, got my SD channels working and with guide / program information, and then tuned in. Within 5 minutes, the problem was happening again.

I'M FED UP WITH THIS THING. I have still not had this problem with ANY other video source, including 480p dvd players, and 1080i Xbox 360 / HD DVD player. Whats more, I have the 'intermittent black screen' problem no matter if I'm using HDMI, component direct to TV, or component through my 4-input component video switcher. It always happens, only on the TiVo, regardless of source material.

I have a 2006 series Sony Grad Wega KDSR50XBR1 TV, nearly $3k worth of a set at the time! Top of the line! What do you mean TiVo doesn't work with it!?!?

I hope someone at TiVo reads my plea for help one day. You're about to lose a loyal long standing customer back to cable-co DVR. (No, I won't cancel off my lifetime S2s tho...)

illc0mm · 07-05-2007, 08:46 PM

I'm having the same problems. I'm using 2 cable cards with Bright House Networks Tampa, Fl.

It only appears on "digital" channels on the 2nd cable card and only periodically. When the issue happens, I try rewinding, replaying, etc but it's still black. At the same time I will try the diagnostics for cable card 2 and I'm unable to tune in any of the digital channels, but the channels below 100 seem to come in fine.

I'll try more troubleshooting this weekend when I have time, but so far I've been unimpressed with S3.

gwar9999 · 07-06-2007, 11:37 AM

I had been using my S3 for about 7 months w/o any significant picture issues. However, the other day I started noticing some pixelation when changing channels and then an occasional grey screen (no audio) on at least one channel. When changing from and then back to this channel the video/audio returned and then it would go back to a grey screen. I tested on another analog TV in my house and didn't notice any problems. When I viewed the signal strength on the S3, it showed 100. I was able to reproduce this with both cablecards. Not sure if this is a fluke or a sign of things to come. I'm a Cox/Santa Barbara (Scientific Atlanta) subscriber. Not sure if the other users reporting this are in my area but if so, it's likely a Cox problem since I've been using my S3 for a longer period that the posts that I've seen here.

wgw · 07-07-2007, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mriechers

stevil,

My problems continue. After almost 2 weeks of just "dealing with it" I decided to do more testing of what it could be. Reminder for anyone reading this, that this is my 2nd TiVo S3 and the problems are still there.

I removed both cable cards and repeated guided setup, this time setting the S3 up for analog cable only, with the no cable card setup. I did the whole thing, got my SD channels working and with guide / program information, and then tuned in. Within 5 minutes, the problem was happening again.

If you haven't already done so, try completely disconnecting the hdmi cable from both the TV and the Tivo and reboot to make sure the Tivo knows there is no hdmi cable. Then connect the component outputs only.

mriechers · 07-22-2007, 03:55 PM

I just wanted to report back with the solution to my problem, in case anyone else comes across this later.

In the end, it was user error, of a sort. It was my component cables. I have no idea how or why the failure is related to running across the HDMI output as well, but once I disconnected the component cables I had been using (for both S3s), the HDMI went back to working as normal. I plugged a borrowed set of high quality component cables in, and the problem did not come back. The cables I had been using were provided by COX cable when I first got an HD cable box, so be aware of cheap cableco provided cables.

It took a month for me to try one of the most obvious things, after I went through multiple service calls and even an RMA. I had to admit it was egg on my face to Tivo, but they seem OK with it. I'm just glad I have a fully working S3 now. Its so worth it.

jrm01 · 07-22-2007, 04:10 PM

Glad your problem is solved, but I'm a little confused. In post #3 you said (5th sentence) that you tried it with HDMI only (no component) and it didn't solve the problem. But here you are saying that did solve the problem. Can you help me understand?

Quote:

Symptoms happen over both HDMI and composite connections. I currently have both connected. I have tried with only 1 (either way) and it still does not go away.

Later edit mentioned that you meant component, not composite.

mriechers · 07-23-2007, 09:27 AM

Lol, called me out! I wasn't even thinking of that when I posted my solution post. I since learned of another problem, which was causing HDMI blackouts, and is totally unrelated to this thread. I didn't post on it because I read another thread on HDCP handshake problems between the S3 and my specific TV (Sony KDR XBR1 series). It was causing total blackness on HDMI only as HDCP wasn't synced (cycling the TV clears the problem, but I didn't know that at the time). So I plugged the component cables back in and went back to that, and their associated problems. I'm sure I overlooked some things in the troubleshooting process (like changing the damn cables) but hey, I'm just some dumb consumer.

I'm just happy its working now.