TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Underground Playground > TiVo Upgrade Center
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-05-2007, 04:23 PM   #61
bkdtv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC Metro Area
Posts: 7,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by sriggins
I ordered a WiebeTech enclosure, as it has shock dampening and I have been very very pleased with their FW800 cases. $48 incl shipping:

http://www.wiebetech.com/products/toughtech.php
Keep in mind that extra interface controllers -- as typically used to provide Firewire and/or USB output from a SATA drive -- tend to degrade disk performance / responsiveness.

If you want the highest possible performance and responsiveness with your new drive on the Series3, you need to use an external SATA enclosure with passthrough, i.e. no extra controller chip.
bkdtv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2007, 04:26 PM   #62
sriggins
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv
Keep in mind that extra interface controllers -- as typically used to provide Firewire and/or USB output from a SATA drive -- tend to degrade disk performance / responsiveness.

If you want the highest possible performance and responsiveness with your new drive on the Series3, you need to use an external SATA enclosure with passthrough, i.e. no extra controller chip.
Thanks - The case I ordered is eSata only, it has no bridge chipset according to the specs (TTE-0)

Steve
__________________
Series 3 love affair
sriggins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2007, 04:31 PM   #63
ZeoTiVo
I can't explain
 
ZeoTiVo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 25,486
Quote:
Originally Posted by windracer
Well, using the kickstart procedure is not exactly a common practice that the average user would attempt. It's usually meant for maintenance and recovery. That's why I was surprised there was a code that would do an expand like this.
seems kind of like the 30 sec skip. Not officially supported but hey - if you wnat to use it at your own risk, who are we to stop you
__________________
You just need to disable your sense of shame for all humanity and click past the break
ZeoTiVo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2007, 04:43 PM   #64
jfh3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Denver area
Posts: 4,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv
If you want the highest possible performance and responsiveness with your new drive on the Series3, you need to use an external SATA enclosure with passthrough, i.e. no extra controller chip.
Any recommendations?
jfh3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2007, 04:57 PM   #65
keenanSR
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Santa Rosa CA
Posts: 395
Posted in the other thread as well:

I ended up getting a different drive. I went with the Seagate 500GB External Drive eSATA 3.0. Model No. ST3500601XS-RK

http://www.compusa.com/products/prod...0GB_Hard_Drive
CompUSA.com: Seagate eSATA 500GB Hard Drive - ST3500601XS-RK - Computer Upgrades » Hard Drives

It was $162 out the door, there was some sort of $20 discount program, plus it comes with a 6' eSATA cable.

Works perfect!

Used with 8.3.1
keenanSR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2007, 04:57 PM   #66
bkdtv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC Metro Area
Posts: 7,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfh3
Any recommendations?
I haven't shopped for an enclosure in awhile, so I'm not familiar with all the choices. Just be sure to avoid units with USB and/or Firewire connections, because that means they run the signal through an extra controller, degrading performance. You want a unit with an eSATA port and nothing else.

The WiebeTech ToughTech TTE-0 referenced above sounds like it would be a good option, but I'm sure there are plenty of others that would fit the bill as well.
bkdtv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2007, 05:13 PM   #67
bkdtv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC Metro Area
Posts: 7,902
I have heard positive things about enclosures from Apricorn, but I'm not sure if they still make a SATA-only model It looks like their latest models all use a separate interface with a USB port.
bkdtv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2007, 09:09 PM   #68
Cormode
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv
I haven't shopped for an enclosure in awhile, so I'm not familiar with all the choices. Just be sure to avoid units with USB and/or Firewire connections, because that means they run the signal through an extra controller, degrading performance. You want a unit with an eSATA port and nothing else.

The WiebeTech ToughTech TTE-0 referenced above sounds like it would be a good option, but I'm sure there are plenty of others that would fit the bill as well.
Not necessarily true. I have a vantec enclosure with esata and usb. The wiring from the drive "T"s so the esata port sees the drive interface directly even though there is a USB bridge chip as well.
Cormode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2007, 11:09 PM   #69
MediaLivingRoom
Registered User
 
MediaLivingRoom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,233
I wonder if a eSATA RAID 5 with 4 SATA 1TB Drives would work if the extenal case had a build-in RAID controller?

Then it could give us 3TB of data with RAID 5.
__________________
May11-1.961 Million User
Jan11-2.049
Oct10-2.272
Jul10-2.384
Jul09-3.050
Jul08-3.623
Jul07-4.197
Jul06-4.418
July 2005 Tom Rogers was named CEO – A new leader is needed!!!
MediaLivingRoom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2007, 11:22 PM   #70
bkdtv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC Metro Area
Posts: 7,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaLivingRoom
I wonder if a eSATA RAID 5 with 4 SATA 1TB Drives would work if the extenal case had a build-in RAID controller?

Then it could give us 3TB of data with RAID 5.
My understanding from previous posts is that the Series3 currently supports a maximum of 1Tb per drive, i.e. 1Tb for the internal and 1Tb for the external.
bkdtv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2007, 11:23 PM   #71
bkdtv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC Metro Area
Posts: 7,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cormode
Not necessarily true. I have a vantec enclosure with esata and usb. The wiring from the drive "T"s so the esata port sees the drive interface directly even though there is a USB bridge chip as well.
Good to know. Thanks.
bkdtv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2007, 11:23 PM   #72
jstevenson
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 27
Hey all,

Got the Maxtor drive and Vantec enclosure previously referenced as a combo that works. Hooked it all up, and re-booted the TiVo. I held pause and got the light, when I pressed 62 the orange light disappeared. It then would hit the "Just a Few Minutes more" screen... but shortly after that it would then reboot back to the "Powering up" screen and all the icons would light up again.

So not exactly sure what's wrong... any ideas?

JS

Last edited by jstevenson : 05-05-2007 at 11:29 PM.
jstevenson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2007, 11:32 PM   #73
MediaLivingRoom
Registered User
 
MediaLivingRoom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,233
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv
My understanding from previous posts is that the Series3 currently supports a maximum of 1Tb per drive, i.e. 1Tb for the internal and 1Tb for the external.

I hope they upgrade the kernal to support a larger volume.
__________________
May11-1.961 Million User
Jan11-2.049
Oct10-2.272
Jul10-2.384
Jul09-3.050
Jul08-3.623
Jul07-4.197
Jul06-4.418
July 2005 Tom Rogers was named CEO – A new leader is needed!!!
MediaLivingRoom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2007, 09:58 AM   #74
Cormode
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaLivingRoom
I hope they upgrade the kernal to support a larger volume.
The kernel isn't the problem, but nearly every bit of code that touches anything within the MFS. To address a position in 2 TB array requires a 32 unsigned integer. Most of the tivo application package (and the design of the MFS itself) is built around 32 bit addressing. There are apparently a few places where the code referencing individual volumes is a signed 32 bit integer, meaning it can only address 1 TB.

The 2 TB / 1TB limit is the Y2K of the Tivo. To allow addressing larger spaces would require 64 bit integers. To implement this would require a great deal of effort on the part of Tivo programmers. Every addressing reference needs to be found and updated, then tested and other errors in logic discovered and fixed. I suspect it will happen eventually, but don't expect it ever for the S3.
Cormode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2007, 10:14 AM   #75
Bighouse
200 Club Member
 
Bighouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Guerneville, CA
Posts: 743
This is all exciting news, but I'm wondering what impact it will have...

Will TiVo Inc. somehow pull the plug on this leak by somehow further disabling this new found ability to hookup an external drive until they're ready (i.e. they have "approval" from Cablelabs) or until they can get some proprietary external drive ready for release (like their wifi adapter)?

I'd run out today and get a drive, but I'm concerned that in a few days it might be rendered obsoltete!
__________________
Series 1, 2, 3 & 4 Elite & Roamio Pro - Comcast
Bighouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2007, 11:07 AM   #76
spike2k5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bighouse
This is all exciting news, but I'm wondering what impact it will have...

Will TiVo Inc. somehow pull the plug on this leak by somehow further disabling this new found ability to hookup an external drive until they're ready (i.e. they have "approval" from Cablelabs) or until they can get some proprietary external drive ready for release (like their wifi adapter)?

I'd run out today and get a drive, but I'm concerned that in a few days it might be rendered obsoltete!
To disable kickstart 62, it's simple to do so they can release a software update to disable this quickly. But there are other ways to enable eSATA so why bother.

To disable eSATA port, they have to tweak the way things work so it will take awhile to implement, test and release a new version. Lots of resources to devote unless they are force to do so due to whatever laws are out there.
Also remember that recorded shows on eSATA drive are encrypted and married to your TiVo. So you can't just unplug and move it to anther TiVo or computer and play recorded shows.

Once eSATA is initized and married to your internal drive, it will continue to work whether they disable kickstart 62 or not. They can issue a software update to force a hard divorce but you can disable software updates and block this. Then they can force poeple to get a software update and we can counter that and cycle continues...
Bottom line is why would they go to extra miles to upset people and generate thousands of support calls.

I hope they will just leave it alone and call it an unsupported feature on S3.

Just my 2 cents....
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
spike2k5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2007, 11:32 AM   #77
davezatz
Funkadelic
 
davezatz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by spike2k5
I hope they will just leave it alone and call it an unsupported feature on S3.
I hope they enhance it... turn it on by default, improve those informations screens and fonts, and then sell branded eSATA drives as an option with the little TiVo guy logo. They'll make a few bucks, and I'll get a cool accessory.
davezatz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2007, 11:36 AM   #78
lcann44
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by spike2k5
Once eSATA is initized and married to your internal drive, it will continue to work whether they disable kickstart 62 or not. They can issue a software update to force a hard divorce but you can disable software updates and block this. Then they can force poeple to get a software update and we can counter that and cycle continues...
Bottom line is why would they go to extra miles to upset people and generate thousands of support calls.

I hope they will just leave it alone and call it an unsupported feature on S3.

Just my 2 cents....

I'm curious. What other ways are there to enable esata?

And I totally agree that to disable it now would not be to their advantage and wouldn't make any sense at this point. And as you pointed out the two drives are married so it really doesn't make any sense to disable.

Anyway, I thought I read that CableLabs had given the green light on the eSATA thing. Is this not so?
lcann44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2007, 01:11 PM   #79
Carsten
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by spike2k5
To disable kickstart 62, it's simple to do so they can release a software update to disable this quickly. But there are other ways to enable eSATA so why bother.

To disable eSATA port, they have to tweak the way things work so it will take awhile to implement, test and release a new version. Lots of resources to devote unless they are force to do so due to whatever laws are out there.
Also remember that recorded shows on eSATA drive are encrypted and married to your TiVo. So you can't just unplug and move it to anther TiVo or computer and play recorded shows.

Once eSATA is initized and married to your internal drive, it will continue to work whether they disable kickstart 62 or not. They can issue a software update to force a hard divorce but you can disable software updates and block this. Then they can force poeple to get a software update and we can counter that and cycle continues...
Bottom line is why would they go to extra miles to upset people and generate thousands of support calls.

I hope they will just leave it alone and call it an unsupported feature on S3.

Just my 2 cents....
May I ask how long you knew of this hack. I googled your name and you came up on the ************ forums. I did notice that Narf posted the Kickstart 62 but no one really made it clear that with that you could force the thing to enable the eSata. I'ved noticed the kickstart 62 along time ago just didnt know you could get it to work on a orginal S3 (never invesitgated, my fault).

What other ways can you activate the eSata?
Carsten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2007, 01:44 PM   #80
rodalpho
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cormode
The 2 TB / 1TB limit is the Y2K of the Tivo.
That's a bit overdramatic, don't you think? 1TB is enough for 120 hours of HD, which is way more than most consumers actually need. Certainly more than I need, for one.
rodalpho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2007, 01:52 PM   #81
spike2k5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carsten
May I ask how long you knew of this hack. I googled your name and you came up on the ************ forums. I did notice that Narf posted the Kickstart 62 but no one really made it clear that with that you could force the thing to enable the eSata. I'ved noticed the kickstart 62 along time ago just didnt know you could get it to work on a orginal S3 (never invesitgated, my fault).

What other ways can you activate the eSata?
It really doesn't matter who discovered it first. If you discovered it first, I give you full credit. I discovered it recently working on updated mfstools. (Mfslive.org)

I posted on the other forum as well while searching if anyone has annouced it already but didn't see it so posted there as well to let their folks know it's out there.

There are 3 ways that I know of "kickstart 62" being the easiest way.
More details to follow when ready.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
spike2k5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2007, 02:04 PM   #82
Cormode
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodalpho
That's a bit overdramatic, don't you think? 1TB is enough for 120 hours of HD, which is way more than most consumers actually need. Certainly more than I need, for one.
This was an analogy not a description.

What I meant was: Just like Y2K is easy to identify WHY the 1TB exists and just like Y2K creating a fix is a LOT of work that only Tivo Inc. programmers can do.
Cormode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2007, 02:07 PM   #83
Carsten
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by spike2k5
It really doesn't matter who discovered it first. If you discovered it first, I give you full credit. I discovered it recently working on updated mfstools. (Mfslive.org)

I posted on the other forum as well while searching if anyone has annouced it already but didn't see it so posted there as well to let their folks know it's out there.

There are 3 ways that I know of "kickstart 62" being the easiest way.
More details to follow when ready.
Dont get me wrong. For me your the one that found it because you announced it hehehe.
Carsten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2007, 02:55 PM   #84
Adam1115
20,000!!!
 
Adam1115's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Denver ish
Posts: 23,254
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodalpho
That's a bit overdramatic, don't you think? 1TB is enough for 120 hours of HD, which is way more than most consumers actually need. Certainly more than I need, for one.
Way more, right this second, but there are only a handful of HD channels other than OTA.

Once the cable channels start going HD, 120 hours is certainly NOT a lot of hours. I have a couple hundred hours of SD on my TiVo now.
__________________
-----------------------------
Check out my (mostly) IT blog!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Adam1115 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2007, 05:06 PM   #85
rodalpho
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 486
I dunno, I had a S1 with a 120GB drive from 2000-2006, recording on high or medium quality depending on the show, and I never had space issues. I would have entire seasons of shows like 24 on my TiVo and watch them at my leisure. Just seems like it isn't that much of an issue. Not that options are bad; certainly prices will come down and I can envision 2TB drives costing $300 in 2009, but it just isn't a major concern at the moment.
rodalpho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2007, 05:16 PM   #86
clark_kent
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 98
hello to all, i wanted to try this out but i can't plug my sata cable into the tivo.**is there a difference in an "external" vs "internal" sata connector?**i only have "internal" sata cables on hand.**thanks.
clark_kent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2007, 05:24 PM   #87
rodalpho
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 486
Yes, they are different physical plugs but are electrically identical. You can get a converter cable if you need one for $10 or so.
rodalpho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2007, 05:47 PM   #88
jstevenson
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstevenson
Hey all,

Got the Maxtor drive and Vantec enclosure previously referenced as a combo that works. Hooked it all up, and re-booted the TiVo. I held pause and got the light, when I pressed 62 the orange light disappeared. It then would hit the "Just a Few Minutes more" screen... but shortly after that it would then reboot back to the "Powering up" screen and all the icons would light up again.

So not exactly sure what's wrong... any ideas?

JS
Just to update my situation, I swapped out for one of the Seagate Free Agent Pros today and it is not working with my TiVo either. Tried unplugging it, firing up the hard drive, plugging the TiVo back in, got to the point where I put 62 in and then it reboots from scratch and I can either do the pause+62 procedure again (causing another reboot) or I can let it finish in which case the drive doesn't work.

So either my eSATA port on my Tivo doesn't work, or there is some other issue.

Running 8.3 and have never replaced the internal drive.
jstevenson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2007, 06:11 PM   #89
lcann44
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstevenson
Just to update my situation, I swapped out for one of the Seagate Free Agent Pros today and it is not working with my TiVo either. Tried unplugging it, firing up the hard drive, plugging the TiVo back in, got to the point where I put 62 in and then it reboots from scratch and I can either do the pause+62 procedure again (causing another reboot) or I can let it finish in which case the drive doesn't work.

So either my eSATA port on my Tivo doesn't work, or there is some other issue.

Running 8.3 and have never replaced the internal drive.
When I first tried it it didn't work for me. Actually I had my wife hold the remote on pause and she punched in the code when the red light came on. I know she did it correctly, but I decided to do it myself and it worked. Not just once, twice since I decided to get a drive with more space. I actually unmarried it, didn't lose programming and installed the new drive a Seagate 500gb internal in a external enclosure. Worked just fine.

So I would guess that if you are following directions, there may indeed be a problem with your eSATA port.
lcann44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2007, 07:58 PM   #90
rainwater
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,930
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv
Keep in mind that extra interface controllers -- as typically used to provide Firewire and/or USB output from a SATA drive -- tend to degrade disk performance / responsiveness.

If you want the highest possible performance and responsiveness with your new drive on the Series3, you need to use an external SATA enclosure with passthrough, i.e. no extra controller chip.
Why do you need high performance for a Tivo drive used to store recordings. The S2 works just fine on a 5400 RPM ide drive. I don't see why the S3 would be any different with regards to low performance requirements for the external SATA drive.
rainwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVo® is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:44 PM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |