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Old 03-24-2007, 12:57 PM   #1
T-Shee
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THX Certified Calibration Files

When I first setup my S3, one of the first things I did was to look for the THX calibration files that I assumed would be pre-loaded on the hard drive. I was stunned to find that this $800 THX certified device didn't have any such thing. Nothing.

Now that TivoCast and Unbox are here and working, it seems like it would be a relatively simple matter to provide calbration files for downloading.

Having calibration files on the Tivo itself is preferable, and far more accurate, than loading a calibr. DVD on an HDMI equipped player, tweaking, then pulling out the DVD player and swapping the S3 back into the HDMI input (component input ditto).

How 'bout it Tivo? It's a THX certified box, right?

ps If you're listening, Tivo, how about 480i, 720p, and 1080i versions. These files could easliy be under five minutes runtime, making them incredibly easy to download and could even be downloaded via the phone-line connection.
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Old 03-24-2007, 01:23 PM   #2
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+1

This was something I expected too, failing which I'm of the opinion they should have saved their money (and ours) by not bothering with the certification.

Love the S3, but do consider this an oversight.
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Old 03-24-2007, 04:06 PM   #3
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These work pretty well with Desktop 2.4.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=781394
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Old 03-24-2007, 07:31 PM   #4
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anyone got the files from avs to download lately?

I'm trying now and it just get me errors.
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Old 03-24-2007, 07:39 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelK
anyone got the files from avs to download lately?

I'm trying now and it just get me errors.
Right Click on the zip file and then click on "Save Target as..."
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Old 03-24-2007, 08:04 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by MScottC
Right Click on the zip file and then click on "Save Target as..."
Anyone have a step-by-step guide of how to calibrate an HDTV based on these files. One i have them displayed, I don't know where to begin.

-Roll
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Old 03-25-2007, 09:09 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherry ghost
These work pretty well with Desktop 2.4.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=781394
So max of 720p... 2.4 is only 720p, not really useful for a 1080p set.
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Old 03-25-2007, 09:44 AM   #8
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I think it would have been nice to include calibration as well. I never thought about it until I read this thread.

But for those of you who want to calibrate your television INHD and HDnet both have "tune ups" which has HD Test Patterns that are pretty good. You can record it on your S3 and then when you have time go through the set up.

I think it's more accurate then putting a DVD in and watching through component and 480p. I also prefer the test on INHD, it's the easiest to use. These test patterns are on 1080i.

I know some of you know this already, this is for people who don't.
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Old 03-25-2007, 10:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornblowercat
I think it would have been nice to include calibration as well. I never thought about it until I read this thread.

But for those of you who want to calibrate your television INHD and HDnet both have "tune ups" which has HD Test Patterns that are pretty good. You can record it on your S3 and then when you have time go through the set up.

I think it's more accurate then putting a DVD in and watching through component and 480p. I also prefer the test on INHD, it's the easiest to use. These test patterns are on 1080i.

I know some of you know this already, this is for people who don't.
Thanks, but...

I have no access to INHD or HDNET and I would expect that there are quite a few others who don't have these cable channels either.

These files could be useful, I'm sure. But they would be subject to compression, transmission errors, etc. I'm looking for the real thing: THX files, blessed by THX and Tivo as the "Gold" standard.

I really don't think thats too much to ask for, especially from an $800 box that's is supposedly THX certified.
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Old 03-25-2007, 11:14 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by T-Shee
Thanks, but...

I have no access to INHD or HDNET and I would expect that there are quite a few others who don't have these cable channels either.

These files could be useful, I'm sure. But they would be subject to compression, transmission errors, etc. I'm looking for the real thing: THX files, blessed by THX and Tivo as the "Gold" standard.

I really don't think thats too much to ask for, especially from an $800 box that's is supposedly THX certified.
Hey, I never even thought about it and your right what a cool thing for us to have.
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Old 03-25-2007, 11:15 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by headroll
Anyone have a step-by-step guide of how to calibrate an HDTV based on these files. One i have them displayed, I don't know where to begin.

-Roll
I would like to know this as well.
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Old 03-25-2007, 12:04 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornblowercat
I would like to know this as well.
The very first step in any TV calibration procedure is to warm-up the TV for at least 30min., then connect your signal generator (in this case, the S3 with calibration files).

Until we have calibration source material residing on the S3, outlining a procedure is secondary at best.

Indeed, TV manufacturersnhave different service menus as well, not to mention the vast differences between technology types (CRT, DLP, LCOS, etc. ) and color standards (NTSC, ATSC, PAL, SECAM) that make any standardized procedure somewhat dubious.

I could have all the colorimeters, optical comparitors and gray scale charts in the world and none of it would be any use without the proper source material on the S3.
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Old 03-25-2007, 12:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Shee
The very first step in any TV calibration procedure is to warm-up the TV for at least 30min.
Have to disagree with that, in light of the near absence of CRT style projection units in stores now Not necessary for Plasma, DLP, LCD, LCD Projection (SXRD, D-LIA) etc.

The change in technology and the ability to self calibrate quite perfectly is also why, in my VERY strong opinion, ISF calibrators have now been obsoleted. Unless yu're on avsforum and need to mention in your sig that you're rich (wasteful) enough to have paid for a pro to come calibrate your TV

Sound - yeah - calibrators cans till help with that, but new features in modern home theater receivers that self-calibrate are making that a thing of the past too.
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Old 03-25-2007, 02:13 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashu
Have to disagree with that, in light of the near absence of CRT style projection units in stores now Not necessary for Plasma, DLP, LCD, LCD Projection (SXRD, D-LIA) etc.

The change in technology and the ability to self calibrate quite perfectly is also why, in my VERY strong opinion, ISF calibrators have now been obsoleted. Unless yu're on avsforum and need to mention in your sig that you're rich (wasteful) enough to have paid for a pro to come calibrate your TV

Sound - yeah - calibrators cans till help with that, but new features in modern home theater receivers that self-calibrate are making that a thing of the past too.
You have a right to your opinion and I would defend your right to state whatever you wish.

Personally, I would never start a calbration procedure on any set, regardless of the technolgy behind it, without ample warm-up time. The bulbs, electronics, all components need to come up to operating temperature. There is no such thing as instant warm up. Your cold-calbrated set will look great untill it's warm, when it won't be calibrated any more. But, you go right ahead and do what you want. It's your TV.

Please provide me with a verifiable reference to a self calibrating TV/Monitor. I had no idea that they existed! I'll buy one today! I'm sure the ISF guys are getting a kick out of that one.
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Old 03-25-2007, 09:18 PM   #15
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Audio self calibration. Not video. I never said that

The ISF guys have enough problems with dwindling business
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Old 03-26-2007, 09:52 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornblowercat
I think it would have been nice to include calibration as well. I never thought about it until I read this thread.

But for those of you who want to calibrate your television INHD and HDnet both have "tune ups" which has HD Test Patterns that are pretty good. You can record it on your S3 and then when you have time go through the set up.

I think it's more accurate then putting a DVD in and watching through component and 480p. I also prefer the test on INHD, it's the easiest to use. These test patterns are on 1080i.

I know some of you know this already, this is for people who don't.
The problem with the INHD Tune Up program is that they represent the SMTPE test pattern in a series of concentric circles. This is a lousy way to do this and easily wasted my time trying to figure out how to properly calibrate using this method versus some of the other well known test patterns. You can get it right, but it's a royal PITA.
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Old 03-26-2007, 10:06 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashu
Audio self calibration. Not video. I never said that
It sure sounds like you said it to me:

Quote:
The change in technology and the ability to self calibrate quite perfectly is also why, in my VERY strong opinion, ISF calibrators have now been obsoleted. Unless yu're on avsforum and need to mention in your sig that you're rich (wasteful) enough to have paid for a pro to come calibrate your TV
You also mention self-calibrating audio later in the same post, but you sure seem to be talking about self-calibrating TVs here.
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Old 03-26-2007, 01:40 PM   #18
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The money for a professonal calibration of the Tv is definitely well worth it. I was skeptical, when I got my first HD set in 2001, about getting the calibration. But since 2001 I try to get my HD set calibrated once a year. Post calibration the picture is stunning. And i dout that any self tweaking can achieve the same level of performance. self calibration can provide a good picture but a professional calibration can bring the picture to the next level.
I've had eliab from Avical.com perform my calibrations and the money has been worth every penny to get the performance rom my HD set that has been achieved.
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Old 03-26-2007, 08:10 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Platt
It sure sounds like you said it to me:



You also mention self-calibrating audio later in the same post, but you sure seem to be talking about self-calibrating TVs here.

Touche' - you caught me thinking about my next paragraph (audio) before finishing my first (video). Correction accepted - only audio

I think I'm too smart for my own good, sometimes - in more ways than one

aaron - I've heard eliab's name numerous times over on avsforum too. Either he has you folks ALL hypnotized, or he's really good. I know that if I hear from a someone that CAN afford a calibration in the North East, his is the name/contact info I'll give them ... after first trying to talk them into buying/renting Avi and other discs
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Old 03-26-2007, 10:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashu
aaron - I've heard eliab's name numerous times over on avsforum too. Either he has you folks ALL hypnotized, or he's really good. I know that if I hear from a someone that CAN afford a calibration in the North East, his is the name/contact info I'll give them ... after first trying to talk them into buying/renting Avi and other discs
What you can accomplish with Avia discs is nowhere near what an ISF-certified calibrator can accomplish by going into the service menus and tweaking them. I've been using Avia discs for years, and I still sprang for the professional calibration. There is definitely a significant difference post-calibration. It was well worth the money to me.
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Old 03-26-2007, 10:53 PM   #21
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Dave, while I appreciate what you're saying, my disclaimer post DID clarify I was talking only about modern, non-CRT TVs. The service menus (if they even exist/are known about) have almost nothing useful to tweak colors.

And (for better or worse) CRTs and old-school rear-projection TVs ARE going the way of the diplodocus & its brethren. Followed closely, IMHO, by calibrators.
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Old 03-27-2007, 09:56 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by ashu
Dave, while I appreciate what you're saying, my disclaimer post DID clarify I was talking only about modern, non-CRT TVs. The service menus (if they even exist/are known about) have almost nothing useful to tweak colors.
I had a DLP rear-projection TV professionally calibrated, and I couldn't be happier with the results. There's no way I could have gotten those results on my own with the Avia discs.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.
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Old 03-27-2007, 10:33 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenfeet
The problem with the INHD Tune Up program is that they represent the SMTPE test pattern in a series of concentric circles. This is a lousy way to do this and easily wasted my time trying to figure out how to properly calibrate using this method versus some of the other well known test patterns. You can get it right, but it's a royal PITA.
Yup... a simple pluge pattern would be much more useful.
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Old 03-27-2007, 11:15 AM   #24
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And (for better or worse) CRTs and old-school rear-projection TVs ARE going the way of the diplodocus & its brethren. Followed closely, IMHO, by calibrators.
So if I understand what your saying, if I have a CRT display my self calibration is fine? I mean I think I did a pretty good job on it.
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Old 03-27-2007, 04:09 PM   #25
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Nope - IMO (and I know it doesn't agree with everyone else's opinion) CRT TVs are becoming extinct. But CRT TVs can only be perfectly calibrated by an ISF calibrator with secret knowledge of the settings in the setup menu and with substantial training and experience!

With Plasma/DLP/LCD/LCD projection etc, the calibrator does NOT have access to any more settings than I do with my remote control - and I do NOT believe I will be convinced by what a calibrator calls a 'perfect' picture on my set, for a given source and lighting configuration.

The moment you take into account the fact that source quality, brightness and room lighting/settings and occupancy vary WILDLY in 'most any setup, and ISF calibration is completely pointless unless you have an in-house calibrator! Or one built into yuor sofa!
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Old 03-27-2007, 05:17 PM   #26
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Sounds like a good idea to me. This request should be posted in the Suggestion forum.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...isplay.php?f=6
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Old 03-27-2007, 05:20 PM   #27
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[semi-related]
I was just informed every BluRay disc has a calibration menu accessible via a player/remote code. Whee! (Not that I don't have any discs at home, but) I think I'll pick up Casino Royale on my way home!
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Old 03-27-2007, 06:02 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashu
With Plasma/DLP/LCD/LCD projection etc, the calibrator does NOT have access to any more settings than I do with my remote control - and I do NOT believe I will be convinced by what a calibrator calls a 'perfect' picture on my set, for a given source and lighting configuration.
Sure, you can access the service menus with your remote control. But do you know what every item in the service menu does? If so, how long did it take you to gain that knowledge?

A typical consumer who wants their TV to look its very best can hardly be expected to first dig up the information needed to get INTO the service menus, let alone take weeks to learn what to do once they get into the menus. IIRC, there are several hundred different tweaks available through those menus. My time is valuable-- it's much more economical, IMO, to pay a professional who already knows what he's doing.
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