Recording Quality

[rdrrepair]

I need to understand the whole recording quality better - I think I have a good grasp but still need some additional info...

I understand that the TiVo will record in the HD Quality and I have no options for HD Signal - I tried to record Survivor in HD but found out that it wasn't recorded in HD so I have since moved that show to another TiVo DVR and record that in "Best Quality" so I can do the MRV thing. I understand that because Survivor is sent on a HD Channel it will record in HD Quality - That would be like recording the "The Dukes of Hazard" on a HD Channel.

- I have set up a race to record on Channel 108 SPEED and it is not giving me an option for Recording Quality. It does not show that SPEED is an HD Channel - Why am I not given an option for Recording Quality if it's going to be a SD program?

I am at a loss for this - I went to several other programs on SPEED and tried to record them in other quality and can not change that - I pulled up the Grid Guide and it doesn't show the HD Logo -

I believe the problem is in my understanding of the TiVo Series3 - Is this considered digital and because of that I have no options? If I record 30+ hours on a regular Series3 on channel 108 SPEED will I then start to run out of room?

I apologize since I am sure that this has been covered - I am having a hard time with the search feature today - too many irrelevant answers.

[Maeglin]

The original digital stream is recorded as-is for all digital channels, not just HD.

For the record, yes, it has been covered before

[rdrrepair]

Originally Posted by Maeglin

For the record, yes, it has been covered before

Thank you!

I have an option to record HBO on Channel 3 - 203 - and 703 HD.

--- Am I to understand that if I record 203 then it will be recorded in Digital Quality aka HD Quality? So then, if I record 703 HD Then I'll actually get a better recording and still take up the same amount of space.

--- Why would I want to record in 203 then? I'll just delete the extra channels like 203 that fall in the digital range and keep the channels in the HD Range and SD Range.

--- If I record 3 then I can change the recording Quality to whatever I want?

I think I have it understood then... 2 more questions below... Thank you in advance for your answer.


---And the digital channels are in what range?---
---How will I know a Digital Channel compared to a SD Channel?---

[phox_mulder]

Originally Posted by rdrrepair

I have an option to record HBO on Channel 3 - 203 - and 703 HD.

--- Am I to understand that if I record 203 then it will be recorded in Digital Quality aka HD Quality? So then, if I record 703 HD Then I'll actually get a better recording and still take up the same amount of space.

--- Why would I want to record in 203 then? I'll just delete the extra channels like 203 that fall in the digital range and keep the channels in the HD Range and SD Range.

--- If I record 3 then I can change the recording Quality to whatever I want? YES

And the digital channels are in what range? How will I know a Digital Channel compared to a SD Channel?

Digital quality is not the same as HD quality.

For the most part, analog is below 100, and everything above 100 is digital.
A lot of cable companies have been making channels below 100 digital though.

Only way to know for sure is try to change the recording quality on a channel below 100, if the TiVo lets you, it's analog, if it doesn't, it's digital.

Or you could ask your cable company what channels are still analog, if any.


phox

[Fofer]

Just because a channel is "digital" doesn't mean it's HD, nor that recordings from that channel will take up huge amounts of space. IOW, you could be recording a digital channel's Standard Definition broadcast. That's why there's no "recording quality" option available, it just records the digital stream, bit-for-bit.



Now, can anyone compare the space required (and PQ) of one of those recordings, when compared to a recording off an analog channel at "Best" or "High" quality? I'm thinking it'd take up similar (or less) space and look the same, if not better, than "High."

[rdrrepair]

Originally Posted by phox_mulder

Digital quality is not the same as HD quality.

Thank you, I understand that. But does it use up the same space as a HD Recording or does it take up the same space as a SD on Best Recording... High Recording... Good Recording? How much space would it fill?

If I recorded only digital channels would I start to run out of room at 30+ hours? 40+ hours? 80...

[hookbill]

Originally Posted by rdrrepair

Thank you, I understand that. But does it use up the same space as a HD Recording or does it take up the same space as a SD on Best Recording... High Recording... Good Recording? How much space would it fill?

If I recorded only digital channels would I start to run out of room at 30+ hours? 40+ hours? 80...

Well, first the recording qualities, Best, High, Good only apply to analog channels. So if your recording Survivor on an HD channel, they won't work. In my area the locals are on digital and analog so you have to know where your analog stream is to use those settings. Otherwise you can't use those settings either.

To answer your question the theory is that if you record a non HD show on the HD channel you are still useing the same amount of space as an HD show. The reason for this is the output from the S3 is still either 720p or 1080i and even though you see a smaller picture, those black bars are full of digital encodeing. So while you don't get a true HD picture, your still using as much space.

[CrispyCritter]

Originally Posted by rdrrepair

Thank you, I understand that. But does it use up the same space as a HD Recording or does it take up the same space as a SD on Best Recording... High Recording... Good Recording? How much space would it fill?

If I recorded only digital channels would I start to run out of room at 30+ hours? 40+ hours? 80...

It's been reported that digital quality non-HD takes up less space than analog high quality (while being a much better picture). We should be getting more precise figures now that 8.1 is out for the S3.

Hmmm. I don't have analog stations on my S3 so I can't compare directly, but a 30 minute medium quality show on an S2 takes about .60 GB, and a digital simulcast show on a nonHD channel on the S3 takes .68 GB. So that substantiates the previous reports.

[hookbill]

Originally Posted by CrispyCritter

It's been reported that digital quality non-HD takes up less space than analog high quality (while being a much better picture). We should be getting more precise figures now that 8.1 is out for the S3.

That's not what I have heard. See my post above yours.

[rdrrepair]

Originally Posted by hookbill

To answer your question the theory is that if you record a non HD show on the HD channel you are still useing the same amount of space as an HD show. The reason for this is the output from the S3 is still either 720p or 1080i and even though you see a smaller picture, those black bars are full of digital encodeing. So while you don't get a true HD picture, your still using as much space.

I understand that - I only record Survivor on an analog channel now - The question we are asking only refers to Digital Channels.

If Survivor or any show was on Channel 2 SD and Channel 702 HD and Channel 202 Digital when would I run out of room if I recorded just the Digital Channels?

Channel 2 in SD is variable - got that - it depends on "MY Choice" of quality

Channel 702 HD is fixed at 30+ hours and then I'm SOL - I got that too.

The question now is the digital channels - How much room does that use if all I recorded was channel 202 Digital - I have no choice on quality - I'm guessing it would run out at 30+ hours but I really don't know.

Could it be that it records in "Best Only" when on digital? I can't see it using HD quality - is there something in the middle for digital?

[CrispyCritter]

Originally Posted by hookbill

That's not what I have heard. See my post above yours.

I see no disagreement between our posts. I specifically said I was talking about non-HD digital broadcasting. That's very different from broadcasting a non-HD show over an HD channel, which you were talking about.

[CrispyCritter]

Originally Posted by rdrrepair

The question now is the digital channels - How much room does that use if all I recorded was channel 202 Digital - I have no choice on quality - I'm guessing it would run out at 30+ hours but I really don't know.

Could it be that it records in "Best Only" when on digital? I can't see it using HD quality - is there something in the middle for digital?

Using my figures (which are direct from my S3 TiVo with 8.1 ), you get about 1.4 Gbytes/hour for digital nonHD, which should probably be in the 140+ hour range for an unmodified S3.

Edit: note your mileage may vary in that different cable franchises may do different things compressionwise with their digital nonHD stations. I was quite conservative in my 140+ hours!

[rdrrepair]

Originally Posted by CrispyCritter

Using my figures (which are direct from my S3 TiVo with 8.1 ), you get about 1.4 Gbytes/hour for digital nonHD, which should probably be in the 140+ hour range for an unmodified S3.

That's 280 for me Looks like I'll delete my season passes on analog at Best and move them over to digital for a better picture. I'll keep the ones that I like on HD and keep the ones my wife likes on digital... HeHeHe

[Austin_Martin]

Originally Posted by rdrrepair

I understand that - I only record Survivor on an analog channel now - The question we are asking only refers to Digital Channels.

If Survivor or any show was on Channel 2 SD and Channel 702 HD and Channel 202 Digital when would I run out of room if I recorded just the Digital Channels?

Channel 2 in SD is variable - got that - it depends on "MY Choice" of quality

Channel 702 HD is fixed at 30+ hours and then I'm SOL - I got that too.

The question now is the digital channels - How much room does that use if all I recorded was channel 202 Digital - I have no choice on quality - I'm guessing it would run out at 30+ hours but I really don't know.

Could it be that it records in "Best Only" when on digital? I can't see it using HD quality - is there something in the middle for digital?

You are still confused. There are three types of channels. Here is the breakdown.


Analog channels - available to record in your choice of qualities.

Digital SD channels - can only record bitstream. This is size-wise less than the high quality analog recordings, but the visual quality is a lot better.

Digital HD channels - can only record bitstream. This is bigger than the sd recordings, and this is where the 32 hour limit comes in. Sometimes when there is a SD program on the HD channel, the cable company still passes this as an HD stream, and encodes the black bars. This makes the SD program take up the same approx. room as an HD program. If it passes SD programs as an SD bitstream, it would take as much as the Digital SD channels from above.

[Fofer]

Originally Posted by CrispyCritter

We should be getting more precise figures now that 8.1 is out for the S3.

Originally Posted by CrispyCritter

Using my figures (which are direct from my S3 TiVo with 8.1 ), you get about 1.4 Gbytes/hour for digital nonHD, which should probably be in the 140+ hour range for an unmodified S3.

How does 8.1, specifically, make it easier to determine filesizes of recordings?

[Fofer]

Originally Posted by CrispyCritter

I see no disagreement between our posts. I specifically said I was talking about non-HD digital broadcasting. That's very different from broadcasting a non-HD show over an HD channel, which you were talking about.

And non-HD digital broadcasting is what I was asking about, so thanks for the detailed explanation. If something's in HD, then there's no question (at least for me) that I'll record it off the HD channel, and pay the price with hard drive space. That's why I got the S3 and the more HD it has on hand, the better (as far as I'm concerned.)

The question arose from the "other" content... shows recorded off digital (but non HD) channels. Channels like Comedy Central. I have an analog choice and a digital (but not HD!) choice, too.

Based on the comments above, it sounds like choosing the digital choice will result in the better picture, without costing that much more in drive space, over the analog counterpart (at "Best" quality.)

I'm thinking I'll record some shows on both, testing qualities, and compare for myself.

[aaronwt]

It depends on how much the cable system compresses it. Comcast here does over compress some of the SD digital channels. But it isn't as bad as the compression from DirectV. Close though. Although the only SD channels I watch on Comcast are still analog so I don't have to worry about the overcompression for now.

[CrispyCritter]

Originally Posted by Fofer

How does 8.1, specifically, make it easier to determine filesizes of recordings?

If you go to the extended description of a recorded show (press info/enter from the normal description), it now says the amount of space the show takes up, both on percentage of disk space and to the nearest 10 MBytes. This is true on both S2 and S3 8.1

[Fofer]

Excellent; that'll certainly come in handy as I do comparisons. Thanks, CrispyCritter!

/goes to force an update, hoping for 8.1