Analog Channels Look GREAT!

[murrays]

I just wanted to point out another unexpected benefit of our S3: the analog channels look great on our 720p Sony GWII. I set the S3 to do the upscaling (all output >>720p) and the picture looks great, better than using the TV tuner and much better than the Moxi we had which was unwatchable on analog channels.

Definitely no regrets getting an S3 here!

-murray

[Bierboy]

Originally Posted by murrays

I just wanted to point out another unexpected benefit of our S3: the analog channels look great on our 720p Sony GWII. I set the S3 to do the upscaling (all output >>720p) and the picture looks great, better than using the TV tuner and much better than the Moxi we had which was unwatchable on analog channels.

Definitely no regrets getting an S3 here!

-murray

I agree this was one of the bonuses with the S3 that the analog channels looked much better than they ever did with the S2. But I wouldn't say they look better than what my TV outputs (Hitachi 51UWX20B RPTV). Actually I think that's because the Hitachi's scaler is exceptional. I have one channel (Versus) that comes in a bit scraggly on all my other TVs and the S3, but using my Hitachi tuner, it's nearly flawless.

[kennedy]

Originally Posted by murrays

I just wanted to point out another unexpected benefit of our S3: the analog channels look great on our 720p Sony GWII. I set the S3 to do the upscaling (all output >>720p) and the picture looks great, better than using the TV tuner and much better than the Moxi we had which was unwatchable on analog channels.

Definitely no regrets getting an S3 here!

-murray

I agree with you Murray as I have a similar 720p setup. The analog channels (TWC) are very palatable on my S3. Glad to hear your are enjoying the S3!

[plmills]

New S3 user here.

Definitely agree on the SD output. A-B comparisons between TV-native upscaling and Tivo upscaling show that the S3 does an outstanding job of upscaling - much, much better than my Sharp HD set.

It's a good thing the S3 does such a good job on SD, since otherwise I'd have a big problem with the Video Output implementation on the S3. Here's my situation:

I used to have a DirecTV HR10-250, so the S3 is actually my second HD-capable TiVo.

My Sharp HD set will not display nor upconvert a 480i input sent via the HDMI input to the set.

With the HR10-250, I could press the up-arrow on the TiVo remote and switch between the different TiVo output formats, thus having the choice of selecting any possible signal from the TiVo without resorting to the TiVo menus.

With the S3, there is no video output option to pass native HD signals AND upconvert 480i to 480p. Therefore, given the HDMI limitation of my set, I can only choose the S3 options for fixed 720p or 1080i output. The "native" setting will not work because my set displays no video when given a native 480i signal thru the HDMI input. The "hybrid" options work to convert 480i to 480p, at the cost of watching all HD in either 720p or 1080i, whether that's the native format or not.

There is also no "up-arrow" option to tell the S3 TiVo to cycle through various output formats, so the only way to truly watch the "native" HD output on my set is to re-visit the TiVo Video output menu each time I am watching a different output format.

As I said, the TiVo seems to do an outstanding job of rescaling and upconverting formats, so, fortunately for me, I am just using 1080i fixed, and all seems good.

However, I would have appreciated TiVo providing a non-menu way of swapping formats, similar to the way it was done on the HR10-250, though. One more "hybrid" option which would have passed native HD and upconverted 480i to 480p would have been even more ideal for my purposes.

[ah30k]

While these channels appear much cleaner, we need to think about the possible reasons why. it might not be related to up-conversion at all. One reason may be that you think you are receiving analog but are really receiving the digital simulcast versions of those channels. This applies to anyone using CableCARDs in a Digital Simulcast area.

If folks are doing a true A-B comparison between TiVo upscaling of SD-Digital channels and TV upscaling of SD_Digital channels, it would be a fair comparison.

[murrays]

Originally Posted by ah30k

While these channels appear much cleaner, we need to think about the possible reasons why. it might not be related to up-conversion at all. One reason may be that you think you are receiving analog but are really receiving the digital simulcast versions of those channels. This applies to anyone using CableCARDs in a Digital Simulcast area.

Perhaps, but as I mentioned, the Moxi was practically unwatchable (some sort of color shift) on the same channels.

-murray

[ewilts]

Originally Posted by ah30k

While these channels appear much cleaner, we need to think about the possible reasons why. it might not be related to up-conversion at all. One reason may be that you think you are receiving analog but are really receiving the digital simulcast versions of those channels. This applies to anyone using CableCARDs in a Digital Simulcast area.

And the easy way to test this is to see if you can set a recording quality for a show on the channel you're interested in. If the option is there, you're analog. If it's not, you're digital.

.../Ed

[kennedy]

Originally Posted by ah30k

While these channels appear much cleaner, we need to think about the possible reasons why. it might not be related to up-conversion at all. One reason may be that you think you are receiving analog but are really receiving the digital simulcast versions of those channels. This applies to anyone using CableCARDs in a Digital Simulcast area.

If folks are doing a true A-B comparison between TiVo upscaling of SD-Digital channels and TV upscaling of SD_Digital channels, it would be a fair comparison.

My S3 is an Analog and OTA only setup. No cablecards here. The upscaling on the S3 really is noticeably better than the same channel output through the tv.

[plmills]

Originally Posted by kennedy

My S3 is an Analog and OTA only setup. No cablecards here. The upscaling on the S3 really is noticeably better than the same channel output through the tv.

Same here. Still waiting for a cable guy to come and hook me up and install cablecards. In the meantime, all I'm receiving are digital OTA (don't even have basic cable yet). I've also removed all the analog OTA channels from my channel list, since there are OTA digital alternatives for every station in my area worth watching.

A-B between S3 and Sharp TV upscalling of OTA digital SD to any HD resolution shows clear and inarguable superiority for S3. It's quite striking, actually.

[cap]

Definitely a great picture.

In fact I think all my channels are the best I've ever seen them.

[mattack]

I'm viewing on a non-HDTV (a 27" Sony Trinitron from the early 90s).. The analog channels definitely look DIFFERENT, and I do think better, but it does seem to look a bit 'flatter'. I had
turned on video smoothing, then turned it off again, so I'll have to watch some more to make sure that I'm looking at non-smoothed recordings.

I'm not completely disagreeing with the rest of you, just that it's noticably different, and not necessarily better on all channels. I'm absolutely watching only analog cable channels.
One recording that did definitely have smoothing on was last night's Tonight Show. For a bit of it (I don't actually watch all of Leno, I record it mostly for the musical guests and the 2 or so funny bits/week), however, it seemed like the sound wasn't synched with his talking.. and it's hard to describe, but it's almost like the video was slightly in slow motion. Not normal pixellation, and definitely not stuttering, but it just seemed "weird".

[hookbill]

I'm of the opinion that the analog channels actually look somewhat better then the digital channels. I can receive both analog and digital locals and I think the analog looks a bit sharper. I see a big difference in viewing analog over the S3 vs the SA 8300, no doubt about that.

The digital channels to me appear a bit flat, not quite as crisp as the analog.

I guess it just depends on your cable system.