Comcast Tivo DVR by March? Why get a series 3?

garys · 01-07-2007, 06:47 PM

I had lots of trouble getting the cable cards working with my DVR, but Comcast finally sent out an employee who got it all fixed up nicely and in record time. He mentioned that he has a couple of Tivos at home and is waiting anxiously for Comcast to roll out their "new hardware with the Tivo interface". Not a reprogramming of the old hardware, but a newly designed box about half the size of the existing Comcast DVR.

Being skeptical of vaporware, I said that I wasn't holding my breath, I figure its a year out at least. He said that it was expected by March, April at the latest.

He also said that they will incorporate the Tivo to Go and MultiRoom Viewing features and he expected them to interoperate with his existing Tivos (wow). He did not know if the hard drives would have the same capacity as the existing comcast DVRs.

If this is even close to true, it is not only exciting, but a pretty strong incentive to wait on purchasing a Series 3 for my other TV. Also, it is a very good sign that the Series 3 will soon have multiroom viewing enabled. If Comcast's boxes using the Tivo interface can do it, so should the Series 3, right?

Anyhow, interesting rumor. But this guy was quite sure he had it right.

petew · 01-07-2007, 06:52 PM

Check back tomorrow. It's anticipated that Comcast will be exhibiting the new Tivo a CES.

HomieG · 01-07-2007, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garys

I had lots of trouble getting the cable cards working with my DVR, but Comcast finally sent out an employee who got it all fixed up nicely and in record time. He mentioned that he has a couple of Tivos at home and is waiting anxiously for Comcast to roll out their "new hardware with the Tivo interface". Not a reprogramming of the old hardware, but a newly designed box about half the size of the existing Comcast DVR.

Being skeptical of vaporware, I said that I wasn't holding my breath, I figure its a year out at least. He said that it was expected by March, April at the latest.

He also said that they will incorporate the Tivo to Go and MultiRoom Viewing features and he expected them to interoperate with his existing Tivos (wow). He did not know if the hard drives would have the same capacity as the existing comcast DVRs.

If this is even close to true, it is not only exciting, but a pretty strong incentive to wait on purchasing a Series 3 for my other TV. Also, it is a very good sign that the Series 3 will soon have multiroom viewing enabled. If Comcast's boxes using the Tivo interface can do it, so should the Series 3, right?

Anyhow, interesting rumor. But this guy was quite sure he had it right.

There was another post a few weeks ago saying there would be a new hardware box. I wonder if this is true, of course, and if so---does it signal that they ran into trouble trying to get TiVo software to run on their Motorola boxes as first reported, or will they be releasing both, a new piece of hardware and allow another option for folks to upgrade their existing Motorola DVR's. Oh well, time will tell. Perhaps we'll hear something come out of CES.

kemcg · 01-07-2007, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petew

Check back tomorrow. It's anticipated that Comcast will be exhibiting the new Tivo a CES.

I don't even see Comcast listed as an exibitor. Am I missing something?

ajwees41 · 01-07-2007, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kemcg

I don't even see Comcast listed as an exibitor. Am I missing something?

It will be Motorola not Comcast.

ajwees41

moyekj · 01-07-2007, 08:29 PM

Biggest problem is that the hardware will still be the Motorola hardware - thus there will be limited hard drive space and I doubt very much the Esata or USB will be enabled for hard drive expansion. I'm sure there will be other limitations compared to Tivo software on Tivo hardware as well.

Bruce Houston · 01-07-2007, 10:18 PM

Spoke with TiVo today when I transferred my Lfietime to my 2 Series 3's and asked about TiVo to Go and Multi orom Viewing. I was told by the TiVo rep that these features were to be added soon, but to get them out for the Fall 06 selling season, they had to delay something, and that was it!! The Series 3, I'm told is all rewriten code, etc. If this is true, we'll have it soon on our Series 3's!!!

drowe · 01-07-2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Houston

The Series 3, I'm told is all rewriten code, etc. If this is true, we'll have it soon on our Series 3's!!!

I love totally rewritten code as much as I hate it. I was the QA lead for Finder X and iMovie 3 and it's test, pray and "try it on the latest build."

ChuckyBox · 01-07-2007, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garys

Anyhow, interesting rumor. But this guy was quite sure he had it right.

He didn't. It has been stated repeatedly by TiVo management in conferences with analysts and in filings with the SEC that the work with Comcast is a software-only product that will be downloaded to existing Comcast hardware.

Arcady · 01-08-2007, 12:00 AM

Motorola can't also release a newer, smaller DVR?

Rob Helmerichs · 01-08-2007, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moyekj

Biggest problem is that the hardware will still be the Motorola hardware - thus there will be limited hard drive space and I doubt very much the Esata or USB will be enabled for hard drive expansion.

The other biggest problem is that the hardware will still be Motorola, and thus won't be available in markets that have the SA technology (like Minneapolis), probably for many years. So it looks like my S3 was still a good investment!

It will be sweet to see TiVo cable boxes out there, though, even if they're not out here. It can only help the company, and it's a move I've been hoping they can make for a long, long time. I think this is their future.

Cloud · 01-08-2007, 09:57 AM

Story is all right here: http://www.businessweek.com/ap/finan.../D8MH64CO5.htm

Quote:

Comcast, TiVo unveil DVR collaboration

NEW YORK

Comcast Corp., the largest U.S. cable operator, said Monday that its digital video recorder boxes will now feature software from TiVo Inc.

For an additional fee, Comcast subscribers can add TiVo DVR features to their existing set-top boxes without a visit from a technician, Comcast said. TiVo lets TV watchers search for and record their favorite shows, suggests others they might enjoy, and schedule last-minute recording from the Web.

The two companies announced plans to collaborate in March 2005, and have been testing the service in late 2006. TiVo and Comcast are demonstrating the new service at the Consumer Electronics show in Las Vegas this week.

Shares of TiVo gained 21 cents, or 3.9 percent, to $5.66 in morning trading, while Comcast's stock dipped 24 cents to $42.31, both on the Nasdaq.

chrishicks · 01-08-2007, 10:42 AM

figures. I just dropped a nice chunk of change on an S3 with Lifetime and I'm in an area that has the Motorola DVR box.

davecramer74 · 01-08-2007, 02:07 PM

Quote:

He didn't. It has been stated repeatedly by TiVo management in conferences with analysts and in filings with the SEC that the work with Comcast is a software-only product that will be downloaded to existing Comcast hardware.

someone got a video from that conference? i want to see if it is in fact the current motorola's. I keep getting told "new hardware". Maybe its just a new motorola box? but then you read the businessweek today and it says "existing hardware". We need a shot of t he video demontration.

to the original poster, every single person at comcast has been telling me the same thing. But anywhere u read on the internet, its "existing". i guess we wont know until someone has some solid pictures or a video of the box in action.

My other question for these guys is if its just motorola, then are all the Scientific atlantis users **** out of luck?

davecramer74 · 01-08-2007, 02:17 PM

another excerpt from tvpredictions.com

Quote:

News
Comcast Adds TiVo's HD DVR Service
Subscribers can sign up without a visit from a technician.
By Phillip Swann

CES (January 8, 2007) -- Comcast today announced that it's adding TiVo's Digital Video Recording service for all programming, including High-Definition.

Subscribers can sign up for the service without need of an additional visit from a technician. The cable operator said the TiVo service would require a "modest monthly fee" but it did not specify what the fee would be.

Further details such as market availability, sign-up procedures and market launch dates were also not released in a company statement.

Comcast and TiVo signed a software licensing agreement about a year ago, but the cable operator failed to meet its goal of launching the service by the end of 2006.

The two companies are showcasing the TiVo features at the Consumer Electronics Show.

"The combination of our signature Comcast On Demand and HD services with the TiVo interface will provide customers with the only integrated access to all of these outstanding services from one set-top box," said Mark Hess, Comcast's senior vice president.

The TiVo on Comcast service will include such popular TiVo features as WishList, TiVo Suggestions and SeasonPass.

oldskoolboarder · 01-08-2007, 02:55 PM

I find it hard to believe that this would truly be a native Tivo s/w package running on the DVR. My guess is that it could just be a s/w interface where all the functions run on the content provider's server. That way Comcast can control all the features. Plus this makes use of the 2 way nature of the current boxes, something the Cablecards can't do.

I can't imagine that Comcast/Motorola's box was designed w/ enough foresight to allow a full, field upgradeable s/w package that makes it run like a Tivo. It's taken Tivo 3 generations just to get it done for cable.

We shall see...

Now throw in the XBox 360 IPTV, which does look promising though that 20 GB HDD will fill up fast, and tomorrow's possible iTV update and we've got a whole lot to think about.

sommerfeld · 01-08-2007, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrishicks

figures. I just dropped a nice chunk of change on an S3 with Lifetime and I'm in an area that has the Motorola DVR box.

On the other hand, do you really want Comcast to have control over your DVR?

Given the complaints on this board and from comcast customers I know about the arbitrary and capricious way in which comcast enables and disables critical features such as digital cable box serial ports, I'm not inclined to let them manage any gear in my house.

hiker · 01-08-2007, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldskoolboarder

...
I can't imagine that Comcast/Motorola's box was designed w/ enough foresight to allow a full, field upgradeable s/w package that makes it run like a Tivo. It's taken Tivo 3 generations just to get it done for cable.
...

I recall reading something over at AVS that not all Motorola DCT boxes would be able to run the TiVo software, only the newer models like the DCT-3416 and DCT-6416. So it's likely that those have had hardware upgrades for the TiVo s/w. If true, that means there are a lot of Comcast DVRs out there that won't be eligible.

TostitoBandito · 01-08-2007, 03:13 PM

Keep in mind that this is running on the current DVR hardware that Comcast uses (not some fancy new box) AND you will have to pay an additional monthly fee to get the Tivo interface (in addition to soon-to-be-raised DVR rental prices). This isn't really in the same category as a Series 3, which is a generation ahead of the hardware that Comcast will be running this on. But, for the sake of comparison, you're probably gonna be paying at least $20 a month or more for a Tivo interface plus the Motorola DVR. Considering that this is non-upgradable hardware that you do not own running a licensed interface that may or may not get regular upgrades, I don't think this is a very good deal when you can get a superior product from Tivo for less per month plus an up front hardware purchase (which is getting cheaper and cheaper as time goes by).

as6o · 01-08-2007, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldskoolboarder

I find it hard to believe that this would truly be a native Tivo s/w package running on the DVR. My guess is that it could just be a s/w interface where all the functions run on the content provider's server. That way Comcast can control all the features. Plus this makes use of the 2 way nature of the current boxes, something the Cablecards can't do.

I can't imagine that Comcast/Motorola's box was designed w/ enough foresight to allow a full, field upgradeable s/w package that makes it run like a Tivo. It's taken Tivo 3 generations just to get it done for cable.

The Comcast Motorola boxes, if I'm not mistaken, are OCAP boxes (see http://www.opencable.com/ocap/). The software platform is open (whatever open means in the cable industry.) My guess is that all of the work TiVo has been doing for Comcast (et al) is to port the TiVo software to Java/OCAP (take a look at their job openings.) This is why they can then easily turn around and sell it to Cox, etc.

-Aaron

dig_duggler · 01-08-2007, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TostitoBandito

Keep in mind that this is running on the current DVR hardware that Comcast uses (not some fancy new box) AND you will have to pay an additional monthly fee to get the Tivo interface (in addition to soon-to-be-raised DVR rental prices). This isn't really in the same category as a Series 3, which is a generation ahead of the hardware that Comcast will be running this on. But, for the sake of comparison, you're probably gonna be paying at least $20 a month or more for a Tivo interface plus the Motorola DVR. Considering that this is non-upgradable hardware that you do not own running a licensed interface that may or may not get regular upgrades, I don't think this is a very good deal when you can get a superior product from Tivo for less per month plus an up front hardware purchase (which is getting cheaper and cheaper as time goes by).

Unless you sign a long term contract you are looking at close to the $20 to Tivo right now, plus the 550-800 up front. And after 90 days, you are on your own if it breaks, unless you took extra (so another $50-100) steps for an extended warranty.

TostitoBandito · 01-08-2007, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dig_duggler

Unless you sign a long term contract you are looking at close to the $20 to Tivo right now, plus the 550-800 up front. And after 90 days, you are on your own if it breaks, unless you took extra (so another $50-100) steps for an extended warranty.

Why wouldn't you pay for 3 years to get the lower rate? Seems like a no-brainer to me, though I have always had lifetime so I have never paid monthly for a Tivo. As for the warranty, I'm not worried since it is a pretty high quality piece of hardware, essentially a computer, and I'm not concerned about it breaking. Since I take care of the hardware in my HT setup (heavy-duty surge protection on power and coax, voltage regulation, etc...) the odds of something randomly breaking are extremely low. If something was to break, it would likely have been defective from the beginning, in which case you would probably see it in the first 90 days. Really the only thing that I can see possibly wearing out or breaking over several years is the hard drive, which is easily replacable.

davecramer74 · 01-08-2007, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Considering that this is non-upgradable hardware that you do not own

non upgradeable? ive already went from a 120 to 160 gig, didnt cost me a dime besides the gas to stop by my local cable shop. i will agree the s3 is superior. 5-700 superior, not for me, no. But just to clarify, they upgrade their boxes and id imagine they will continue to do so yearly.

TostitoBandito · 01-08-2007, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davecramer74

non upgradeable? ive already went from a 120 to 160 gig, didnt cost me a dime besides the gas to stop by my local cable shop. i will agree the s3 is superior. 5-700 superior, not for me, no. But just to clarify, they upgrade their boxes and id imagine they will continue to do so yearly.

I should have been more clear. Non user-upgradable. You are relying on the cable company to provide you with the hardware that they choose to. For example, you can't go buy one of the 1TB eSATA drives that are coming out shortly and slap it into your cable company DVR. You quite possibly would be able to do so with a series 3, although I can't say for sure since it hasn't been released yet. If/when the external eSATA is enabled the answer is definitely yes, but that is not something that is in Tivo's control.

dig_duggler · 01-08-2007, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TostitoBandito

Why wouldn't you pay for 3 years to get the lower rate? Seems like a no-brainer to me, though I have always had lifetime so I have never paid monthly for a Tivo. .

That's Tivo's position as well

I never lock into long term agreements if at all avoidable.

Quote:

As for the warranty, I'm not worried since it is a pretty high quality piece of hardware, essentially a computer, and I'm not concerned about it breaking. Since I take care of the hardware in my HT setup (heavy-duty surge protection on power and coax, voltage regulation, etc...) the odds of something randomly breaking are extremely low. If something was to break, it would likely have been defective from the beginning, in which case you would probably see it in the first 90 days. Really the only thing that I can see possibly wearing out or breaking over several years is the hard drive, which is easily replacable

True, hardware typically breaks in the first 30 days. But there is a lot of value in not having to worry about that in the slightest.

davecramer74 · 01-08-2007, 03:38 PM

ahh ok tastito, i see what you mean. ya, the only advantage i see to the motorolas is that you can rip your recordings off there via firewire. other than that, you cant do anything to them upgradewise.

TostitoBandito · 01-08-2007, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dig_duggler

That's Tivo's position as well

I never lock into long term agreements if at all avoidable.

True, hardware typically breaks in the first 30 days. But there is a lot of value in not having to worry about that in the slightest.

Well, having a lifetime box, what I like most is the fact that I can get great resale value at any time for my box should I want to get something new. Like if I put my S3 on ebay now I could probably get close to $1000 for it. A few years from now it will still be worth at least the few hundred dollars that the lifetime sub is worth, plus whatever the current value of the hardware is (assuming Tivo is still around). Like you said, I like the freedom and economics of not having to deal with long-term subscriptions.

dig_duggler · 01-08-2007, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TostitoBandito

Well, having a lifetime box, what I like most is the fact that I can get great resale value at any time for my box should I want to get something new. Like if I put my S3 on ebay now I could probably get close to $1000 for it. A few years from now it will still be worth at least the few hundred dollars that the lifetime sub is worth, plus whatever the current value of the hardware is (assuming Tivo is still around). Like you said, I like the freedom and economics of not having to deal with long-term subscriptions.

True enough. I have lifetime too, one of the main reasons I took the plunge. I should be able to recoup my investment (and then some) within a year if I change my mind about the s3...

murryamorris · 01-08-2007, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dig_duggler

...And after 90 days, you are on your own if it breaks, unless you took extra (so another $50-100) steps for an extended warranty.

Or you buy from Costco.

jfh3 · 01-08-2007, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hiker

I recall reading something over at AVS that not all Motorola DCT boxes would be able to run the TiVo software, only the newer models like the DCT-3416 and DCT-6416. So it's likely that those have had hardware upgrades for the TiVo s/w. If true, that means there are a lot of Comcast DVRs out there that won't be eligible.

Also the 6412 Phase III boxes.