Now I'm scared to get a Series 3....

[garys]

I got in under the lifetime-transfer wire, ordering my Series 3 on 12/31/06. I'm eligible to transfer my lifetime subscription from my S2 to the new S3.

However, after ordering I started reading these forums, and it seems that few people are able to even get the S3 working reliably. My S3 will arrive shortly, and I'm not sure whether to open the box or simply return it to Amazon for a refund.

From what I've read, here are the concerns:

1. Comcast (I'm in Fresno, CA, so I have Comcast) will do whatever it can to prevent the Tivo S3 from working with the cable cards, thereby preserving its DVR rental revenue. So the cable company acts as hostile toward Tivo functionality as possible.
2. Cable cards have inherently complex setup procedures that require full-on cooperation from Comcast, something I'm unlikely to see given #1 above.
3. The Series 3 suffers from audio dropout.
4. The Tivo to Go and, more importantly, multi-room viewing, features are not currently implemented and require permission and approval from a consortium representing the interests of content providers and cable companies in order to implement. I'm just plain assuming that permission will never come.
5. The Series 3 can randomly reboot at times.
6. The Series 3 will never be capable of on-demand (although downloaded content, while not available instantly, on-demand, seems likely).
7. The Series 3 storage space is too small for HD programming, but upgrades are expensive, violate the (very short anyhow) warranty, raise the possibility of having to get the cable cards working again (see #1), and, as far as external storage, require permission from a third party (see #4).
8. In theory, existing (and rentable!) Comcast DVRs will be able to run Tivo's software for an additional fee in the next year or so.

Sadly, while the tivo community forum has, in the past, prodded me into buying the newest Tivo products, this time I think I've been warned off. Unless something changes, I'm just going to ship my Series 3, unopened, back to Amazon. Mostly, I'm simply not convinced that I can get it working without having some kind of war with Comcast, and if I get it working, I'm not convinced that it will function reliably. So why would I transfer my lifetime subscription from a perfectly functioning S2 to a questionable S3? I guess I wouldn't.

Please talk me out of returning my S3! I want to believe in Tivo, I just can't get there given what I've read on these forums.

[Amnesia]

Originally Posted by garys

(...) it seems that few people are able to even get the S3 working reliably (...)

That's not the case at all. It's just the the people with issues are the ones posting about their problems and the people without issues don't really post just to say that it's working fine.

Search around and there are a bunch of "My S3 works great!" threads...

[Thos19]

It's a great purchase....don't be scared off.

Thos.

[hiker]

I always buy something I'm not sure about from a merchant that allows 30 days return. Not sure if Amazon does that and if not I would refuse it and get it somewhere else.

Get your Comcast install scheduled right away so that you have the max time possible to check out the S3 before doing the LT transfer. Comcast seems to be doing a relatively good job in Calif with cablecard installs.

The S3 has a grace period of about one week for TiVo sub and TiVo allows 30 cancellation if you get a paid plan. Also I think even if you do the LT transfer, you can reverse it within 60 days.

[Mike Farrington]

If you're that worried, then just make sure you test everything out thoroughly before your return window has expired. Keep all the boxes and packaging. Keep the receipt handy.

[Gregor]

There's tons of FUD threads started by Chicken Littles out there.

The S3 is well worth the bucks, and I am very pleased how well it works.

[sammick]

I found Comcast here in Seattle to be most helpful--I just went to the office and picked up the cards(the gal said they didn't have to be zapped) I installed them myself and then called Comcast--they told me they had to be zapped--they did in in 20 seconds and I've never had problems--

I highly recommend Comcast here in Seattle--really great customer service as far as I am concerned.

[stoli412]

I haven't had any problems with my Series 3. No audio dropouts, no reboots, etc. It has worked splendidly since the day I got it.

CableCard setup was a little tricky, but I think that's due to the newness of the technology. For me it required only one visit (the techs were here for a few hours), which is far more typical than the multi-visit, multi-technician, multi-card fiascoes that have been posted here.

No OnDemand/PPV does kind of suck. However, my local Comcast offers a FREE digital box if you have a CableCard. No additional outlet/equipment rental/programming fees. They really want people to have OnDemand/PPV because it makes them money. The free box is SD only; I opted to pay $5 for the HD box because we have quite a bit of HD OnDemand here.

Expandable storage is an issue. My guess is that the e-sata port will be activated fairly soon (within 6 months???). It seems to be the least controversial unactivated feature in the eyes of CableLabs.

TTG and MRV are another issue. My guess is that MRV will be allowed eventually, possibly only for SD content, due to content protection and/or bandwidth limitations. TTG is another story. I doubt we'll ever see CableLabs approve TTG, especially for HD and maybe not even for SD (since even SD is now a perfect digital copy with the advent of ADS).

Finally, I don't think you should hold out for the ComcasTiVo. It's going to have even more limited storage than the S3 (300GB vs 120/160GB). It most likely won't have Remote Ccheduling, TiVoCast, Home Media Option, TTG, or MRV. I wouldn't expect much more than a DirecTiVo in terms of features. And don't forget that it's going to run on the horrible Moto 64xx/34xx boxes. Those boxes have a lot of firmware problems that I suspect will continue to manifest themselves even when running TiVo software. Plus, Comcast keeps pushing back the release date....who knows when we'll actually see them.

Honestly, keep the S3. You'll be much better off in the long run. And keep your fingers crossed for TTG and MRV!!!

[kmackenz]

I love mine far superior to the cable company DVR and for me the cable card setup took less then an hour with a local cable company that had never seen a series 3 before. Picture is better then the motorola box, sound is better... sure, so signal issues but you can't blame the box for the quality of the signal.

[GoHokies!]

Originally Posted by garys

1. Comcast (I'm in Fresno, CA, so I have Comcast) will do whatever it can to prevent the Tivo S3 from working with the cable cards, thereby preserving its DVR rental revenue. So the cable company acts as hostile toward Tivo functionality as possible.

Entirely not true.

2. Cable cards have inherently complex setup procedures that require full-on cooperation from Comcast, something I'm unlikely to see given #1 above.

Not necessarily "full on cooperation", just a tech that knows what they are doing. Plenty of setups went just fine.

3. The Series 3 suffers from audio dropout.

Been lots of talk about this on the forum, but it isn't something that I've noticed. You'll never know if it will affect you unless you unpack it and try it out.

4. The Tivo to Go and, more importantly, multi-room viewing, features are not currently implemented and require permission and approval from a consortium representing the interests of content providers and cable companies in order to implement. I'm just plain assuming that permission will never come.

I don't think that's a safe assumption. I would think that Tivo will eventually get something working. Cable Labs is only supposed to evaluate for 6 months before making a decision - once the decision is made Tivo should be able to get to work coding up any changes that CL requires.

5. The Series 3 can randomly reboot at times.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=319421

6. The Series 3 will never be capable of on-demand (although downloaded content, while not available instantly, on-demand, seems likely).

Been lots of discussion on this one. Unless you're looking for programming that isn't broadcast (I'm not aware of much), you can have as much "On Demand" as fits on your hard drive. Isn't that the whole point of a DVR?

7. The Series 3 storage space is too small for HD programming, but upgrades are expensive, violate the (very short anyhow) warranty, raise the possibility of having to get the cable cards working again (see #1), and, as far as external storage, require permission from a third party (see #4).

Not true. Lots and lots of people have upgraded with no problem. Many more (like myself) find that there is plenty of space on the internal hard drive.

8. In theory, existing (and rentable!) Comcast DVRs will be able to run Tivo's software for an additional fee in the next year or so.

True, but not likely to be as full featured as the S3, and available now.

Sadly, while the tivo community forum has, in the past, prodded me into buying the newest Tivo products, this time I think I've been warned off. Unless something changes, I'm just going to ship my Series 3, unopened, back to Amazon. Mostly, I'm simply not convinced that I can get it working without having some kind of war with Comcast, and if I get it working, I'm not convinced that it will function reliably. So why would I transfer my lifetime subscription from a perfectly functioning S2 to a questionable S3? I guess I wouldn't.

That would be an amazingly foolish move. Check out some of these polls (especially the first one) - they're not scientific by any means, but give a more representative look at the issues people are having.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=330242

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=331817

[retired_guy]

I love mine, as does my neightbor. I went through three Comcast DVRs and hated them all. You might consider buying from Costco. Their price is low and return policy is great in case of the low probability you get a lemon.

[hookbill]

The S3 is a great DVR. So much better then what I had before. Don't be afraird, the vast majority of us love the S3.

[yunlin12]

Originally Posted by garys

7. The Series 3 storage space is too small for HD programming, but upgrades are expensive

If you think the S3 HDD is too small, wait till you get the Comcast DVR. If you are getting the Moto boxes, you don't even have any option to increase the storage.

[rainwater]

Originally Posted by Gregor

There's tons of FUD threads started by Chicken Littles out there.

The S3 is well worth the bucks, and I am very pleased how well it works.

There are also a lot of threads with legitimate concerns. Thankfully, most of the concerns are software issues which you would come to expect with new hardware. The incompetence of cable companies is not really something anyone can control, but at the end of the day it shouldn't really affect your decision to keep the S3 or not.

[TostitoBandito]

Originally Posted by garys

I got in under the lifetime-transfer wire, ordering my Series 3 on 12/31/06. I'm eligible to transfer my lifetime subscription from my S2 to the new S3.

However, after ordering I started reading these forums, and it seems that few people are able to even get the S3 working reliably. My S3 will arrive shortly, and I'm not sure whether to open the box or simply return it to Amazon for a refund.

From what I've read, here are the concerns:

1. Comcast (I'm in Fresno, CA, so I have Comcast) will do whatever it can to prevent the Tivo S3 from working with the cable cards, thereby preserving its DVR rental revenue. So the cable company acts as hostile toward Tivo functionality as possible.
2. Cable cards have inherently complex setup procedures that require full-on cooperation from Comcast, something I'm unlikely to see given #1 above.
3. The Series 3 suffers from audio dropout.
4. The Tivo to Go and, more importantly, multi-room viewing, features are not currently implemented and require permission and approval from a consortium representing the interests of content providers and cable companies in order to implement. I'm just plain assuming that permission will never come.
5. The Series 3 can randomly reboot at times.
6. The Series 3 will never be capable of on-demand (although downloaded content, while not available instantly, on-demand, seems likely).
7. The Series 3 storage space is too small for HD programming, but upgrades are expensive, violate the (very short anyhow) warranty, raise the possibility of having to get the cable cards working again (see #1), and, as far as external storage, require permission from a third party (see #4).
8. In theory, existing (and rentable!) Comcast DVRs will be able to run Tivo's software for an additional fee in the next year or so.

Sadly, while the tivo community forum has, in the past, prodded me into buying the newest Tivo products, this time I think I've been warned off. Unless something changes, I'm just going to ship my Series 3, unopened, back to Amazon. Mostly, I'm simply not convinced that I can get it working without having some kind of war with Comcast, and if I get it working, I'm not convinced that it will function reliably. So why would I transfer my lifetime subscription from a perfectly functioning S2 to a questionable S3? I guess I wouldn't.

Please talk me out of returning my S3! I want to believe in Tivo, I just can't get there given what I've read on these forums.

1. I don't live there so I don't know first hand, but all I had to do with Comcast where I live is walk in and ask for two cablecards. I walked out with two cablecards.

2. Cablecards are not hard at all to setup assuming they are properly configured cards. All you should need to do is follow Tivo's instructions on installing them and then call Comcast to activate them (if necessary).

3. I've never seen this. Well, other than the brief one second dropouts you get while using the onscreen guide every now and then. It doesn't matter much to me since it isn't reflected in the recording. It's just the guide interfering with live audio processing. A few people have reported more serious problems with missing audio from big chunks of recorded programs, but this is rare and is the fault of the cable companies in many cases.

4. You knew this before you bought it.

5. It does not randomly reboot. I have noticed though, if you reboot it while your cable is out or some other problem is preventing it from getting channel info, it can go into a reboot loop. That's not really random though and it only happens if you reboot it (or if the Tivo reboots itself as part of an update cycle) to start the loop.

6. See #4.

7. 32 hours of HD is a fair amount. I challenge you to find any cable company DVR's which have more. Plus, the Tivo is upgradable (internally through kits and eventually externally via eSATA) whereas the cableco DVR's are not.

8. In theory is the key phrase. They've been talking about this for almost a year now and it still looks to be at least 6 months off, more likely about a year. They haven't shown anything of substance yet. Also, it is pretty clear that prices for DVR rentals from cable companies are being increased as we speak and in the near future so I wouldn't count on seeing the same low price for DVR rental at the end of 2007 when the Comcast Tivos come out.

[jbowden]

I have been vocal about the issues that I have with my S3. With the exception of a couple of issues that supposly are being addressed in the next release, I would highly recommend the S3 given its capabilities. Go ahead, talk to the hand and then place your order. I believe you will be satisfied!

[gwsat]

Originally Posted by garys

I got in under the lifetime-transfer wire, ordering my Series 3 on 12/31/06. I'm eligible to transfer my lifetime subscription from my S2 to the new S3.

However, after ordering I started reading these forums, and it seems that few people are able to even get the S3 working reliably. My S3 will arrive shortly, and I'm not sure whether to open the box or simply return it to Amazon for a refund.

Gary – I went through the same exercise and finally decided to order an S3, which I did on Saturday, 12-30-06. That way, I qualified for TiVo’s offer to transfer the lifetime subscription on my old S1 box to a new S3 for $200.

I had put off buying because of the not insignificant number of complaints concerning the reliability of both the S3 and CableCARD technology and implementation. I have made up my mind that getting my S3 configured is going to be a significant exercise. Nevertheless, I’m glad I made the move because there is simply nothing like TiVo’s software.

One important factor in my decision to buy an S3 was that here in OKC the owners of both the local ABC station and local Fox station insist that Cox OKC pay then a fee for carrying ABC’s and Fox’s HD programming. The net effect of this disagreement is that Cox can no longer carry either network's HD programming and it looks like the dispute will not be resolved very soon. Thus, despite having one of Cox's HD DVR's, I am now unable to make HD recordings of such shows as 24, Lost, and Grey’s Anatomy. The S3 will solve all of that because it’s built in OTA HD tuners will allow me to once again record those shows in HD.

[davecramer74]

If you think the S3 HDD is too small, wait till you get the Comcast DVR. If you are getting the Moto boxes, you don't even have any option to increase the storage.

ya but he doesnt have to pay a dime up front for the moto box.

as for the s3, you get 30 days to return it dont you? Id highly suggest sending that amazon one back and going to costco. Costco has the best return policy out there. I return my tv every year for a newer model.

[GoHokies!]

Originally Posted by davecramer74

ya but he doesnt have to pay a dime up front for the moto box.

as for the s3, you get 30 days to return it dont you? Id highly suggest sending that amazon one back and going to costco. Costco has the best return policy out there. I return my tv every year for a newer model.

Yeah, and you sure do get what you pay for!

By the way, I appreciate your abuse of that policy. When it is canceled, it'll be people like you that caused it.

[IzzyB68]

Originally Posted by GoHokies!

By the way, I appreciate your abuse of that policy. When it is canceled, it'll be people like you that caused it.

Agreed, I hate when people abuse a good policy like that. They eventually are going to stop it because of this and then those of us that don't abuse it will suffer.

[cwoody222]

Originally Posted by garys

3. The Series 3 suffers from audio dropout.
5. The Series 3 can randomly reboot at times.
7. The Series 3 storage space is too small for HD programming, but upgrades are expensive, violate the (very short anyhow) warranty, raise the possibility of having to get the cable cards working again (see #1), and, as far as external storage, require permission from a third party (see #4).

I can't speak to CableCards or Comcast but I've never had any of the above problems.

My TiVo maybe froze once in 3 months. And I record a lot of TV, everything possible in HD and I don't have space issues.

[hookbill]

Originally Posted by davecramer74

ya but he doesnt have to pay a dime up front for the moto box.

as for the s3, you get 30 days to return it dont you? Id highly suggest sending that amazon one back and going to costco. Costco has the best return policy out there. I return my tv every year for a newer model.

Hate to inform you of this but that's stealing. You can justify it in your mind any way you want but doing something like this makes you a crook. In addition as others have pointed out YOU PERSONALLY cause the price of goods to go up for the rest of us.

Hope you feel real good about yourself now.

[Amnesia]

Originally Posted by hookbill

Hate to inform you of this but that's stealing.

No it's not.

Returning something within the allowed period is perfectly legal. Stealing is not. Therefore it can't be stealing.

I'm not saying it's a good thing or moral, but it's not the same as the illegal action known as "stealing"...

[hookbill]

Originally Posted by Amnesia

No it's not.

Returning something within the allowed period is perfectly legal. Stealing is not. Therefore it can't be stealing.

I'm not saying it's a good thing or moral, but it's not the same as the illegal action known as "stealing"...

Returning a perfectly good television for one that is brand new when there is nothing wrong with your current tv is stealing. I don't care what the damn warranty says, that's just words on a paper.

[Amnesia]

Originally Posted by hookbill

I don't care what the damn warranty says, that's just words on a paper.

What about the law? Is that just words on paper, too?

The law says it's legal. Stealing is illegal. Therefore it's not stealing.

[GoHokies!]

Originally Posted by Amnesia

What about the law? Is that just words on paper, too?

The law says it's legal. Stealing is illegal. Therefore it's not stealing.

Easy boys, I didn't want to start this debate, I just wanted to point out the guy was being a selfish bastard....

Just because there isn't a law against it doesn't make it right...

[Amnesia]

Originally Posted by GoHokies!

Just because there isn't a law against it doesn't make it right...

I completely agree. Not right. Not moral. But also not illegal. Not stealing.

[samo]

Originally Posted by Amnesia

What about the law? Is that just words on paper, too?

The law says it's legal. Stealing is illegal. Therefore it's not stealing.

State and federal laws do not require Costco to have a return policy that they have. Costco policy is designed for honest people - not for thiefs. Some people abuse this policy and steal money from them, just like shoplifters do. I bet that a thief who posted here did not write on a return slip that reason for a return was his desire to get a new TV for free. Wherefore, he used a lie to steal merchandise from Costco. Plain and simple. Theft is a theft regardless what tools are used to accomplish it.

[GoHokies!]

Originally Posted by Amnesia

I completely agree. Not right. Not moral. But also not illegal. Not stealing.

According to the law, yes.

Is it getting something that you didn't pay for? That's a bit more of a grey area...

[Amnesia]

Originally Posted by samo

Wherefore, he used a lie to steal merchandise from Costco. Plain and simple. Theft is a theft regardless what tools are used to accomplish it.

No, no, no.

You said "he used a lie to steal merchandise from Costco". Perhaps he used a lie, fine. But you haven't provided any reason to call it "stealing". Stealing is a crime. Do you agree? And a crime hasn't been committed. Do you agree? So what makes it "theft" besides your personal opinion?