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Old 11-13-2014, 12:01 AM   #1
cmontyburns
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Arrow OAD 11/12/2014: "Guilty"

Not much to say about this episode, which I thought was pretty weak overall. I mainly wanted to start a thread so I could say:

Boxing glove arrow!

I'm not familiar with the comics but even I know about that. I thought this was a funny and clever wink at that bit of ridiculousness.

As for the episode and the season as a whole... meh. The show really hasn't had any kind of arc this season and I think that's hurting it somewhat, or at least the relatively weak standalone episodes like this one are. Random thoughts:

-- The Hong Kong stuff is so underdeveloped, and so uninteresting regardless, that the show would be much better off without it. Say what you will about the island stuff, but at least it seemed to be going somewhere. We spend so little time in Hong Kong that the show doesn't even seem to be interested in it. I guess it'll go somewhere, but I'd like to see that happen faster.

-- Oliver is losing fights pretty routinely. In this one, he shoots the gun out of Isaac's hand, and in the time it takes Oliver to run up one flight of stairs, Isaac has disappeared without a trace? That's stretching believability even by Arrow standards.

-- The Arrow needs a cooler-looking motorcycle.

-- I think it really undermines the impact of the Arrow to have Roy (now called Arsenal, presumably a comic-book reference?) running around in a costume, especially because everything about Roy sucks. Diggle makes do without a suit, so should Roy.

-- I'm pretty concerned about Katie Cassidy being able to pull off what the show apparently has planned for Laurel. Speaking of which:

Spoiler:
Here's the first look at Katie Cassidy as Black Canary:



Still concerned. Caity Lotz set the bar pretty high.

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Old 11-13-2014, 09:29 AM   #2
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Y'know, regarding Laurel as Black Canary, and Laurel's needing all this training, I think back to last season...

In one of the earliest episodes, seem to remember Laurel being assaulted in her apartment but beating the crap out of some thug. She was eventually overpowered, but it took more than one villain to do it. So I am a little put off by the apparent lack of skills she now has.

At the time, I think that set of a round of discussion here about her future as Black Canary.

Or am I mis-remembering?
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Old 11-13-2014, 09:35 AM   #3
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I can't wait for more of Carrie the Cupid. If they follow the comics, a villain who's love-smitten with Oliver will make a few comical episodes.
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Old 11-13-2014, 09:37 AM   #4
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In one of the earliest episodes, seem to remember Laurel being assaulted in her apartment but beating the crap out of some thug. She was eventually overpowered, but it took more than one villain to do it. So I am a little put off by the apparent lack of skills she now has.
And even in the finale of last season, when she and Felicity were being held by Slade, she was able to cold-**** the thug holding her and get away.
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Old 11-13-2014, 09:40 AM   #5
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It looks like Roy will eventually leave. Although the episode seems to be having Ollie tell Roy he'll not abandon him. But I believe a betrayal is coming for Roy. I think writers want Oliver's sister Speedy to become his side kick.

And I don't know if Laurel's actress is right for Black Canary. We'll see.
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Old 11-13-2014, 09:56 AM   #6
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I can't wait for more of Carrie the Cupid. If they follow the comics, a villain who's love-smitten with Oliver will make a few comical episodes.
Did you notice her on the sidelines as one of the bystanders when the cops were at the scene and Laurel walked by her? I saw her, and thought that girl seems a bit too pretty to be "background." She is looking a bit too focused, so they are trying to tell us something.

Man, that redhead is yummy. Yowza.

'Course, it IS the CW, so even the "unattractive" people are simply gorgeous, but wearing frumpy clothes or glasses.
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Old 11-13-2014, 10:30 AM   #7
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'Course, it IS the CW Hollywood, so even the "unattractive" people are simply gorgeous, but wearing frumpy clothes or glasses.
FYP.

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Old 11-13-2014, 11:56 AM   #8
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FYP.

(Don't tell Ereth...)
To be sure, the CW does it even more than Hollywood—way more I would say. Hollywood *does* have unattractive actors and actresses, but I'm not sure the CW even comes close (any rare exceptions prove the rule ).
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Old 11-13-2014, 12:04 PM   #9
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No fishnets? Less fighting skills than the Canary? Lame.





(I hope for this post to humorously echo CmdrTacos initial review of the iPod, in case that doesn't come across).
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Old 11-13-2014, 12:16 PM   #10
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To be sure, the CW does it even more than Hollywood—way more I would say. Hollywood *does* have unattractive actors and actresses, but I'm not sure the CW even comes close (any rare exceptions prove the rule ).
True.

Hollywood is the shadow on the wall of the cave.

The CW is the fire casting the shadow.
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Old 11-13-2014, 01:35 PM   #11
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What's funny is that Arrow has completely transcended the need to do that. I've been feeling like it's actually being held back by the shackles that come with being on the CW. Do they really think, for example, that Colton Haynes is adding anything to the show? The guy basically can't act. I don't think Katie Cassidy really can, either.
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Old 11-13-2014, 03:09 PM   #12
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I think Laurel looked pretty good during her boxing training except when the director had her flailing away like an idiot.

I think both Canarys look stupid wearing wigs. There better not be any emergencies because it'll take Laurel 20 minutes to get into that outfit.

Who knows if Katie Cassidy can act or not? Laurel's been a crap character guaranteed to be disliked by the audience so far. Like Iris on The Flash.
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Old 11-13-2014, 03:20 PM   #13
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I kept thinking the whole episode what a hypocrite Oliver was getting all holier-than-thou about Ted maybe killing someone 6 years earlier when he spent the entire first season and the 5 years before that killing everyone in sight.
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Old 11-13-2014, 03:46 PM   #14
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I thought that, too.

He's a vigilante! And he killed someone! You can't be with someone like that! You should be with me! Oh wait....
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Old 11-13-2014, 03:59 PM   #15
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Y'know, regarding Laurel as Black Canary, and Laurel's needing all this training, I think back to last season...

In one of the earliest episodes, seem to remember Laurel being assaulted in her apartment but beating the crap out of some thug. She was eventually overpowered, but it took more than one villain to do it. So I am a little put off by the apparent lack of skills she now has.

At the time, I think that set of a round of discussion here about her future as Black Canary.

Or am I mis-remembering?
As I posted in an earlier thread, I remember that either in the pilot or the second episode, they had Laurel taking out two guys that Tommy and Ollie "couldn't".
And she stated that she had had a fair self defense training due to being the daughter of a cop.

I guess the explanation would be something like, her previous training is good enough take on the average street mugger but she needed more training to be anywhere near the level of Oliver and Diggle.


I did laugh aloud at the boxing glove arrow.


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Old 11-13-2014, 04:45 PM   #16
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I did too, and I knew it would be a big part of the discussion on this forum. But I loved it in a camp sort of way.
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Old 11-13-2014, 04:58 PM   #17
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So did I. Sepinwall wrote:

Quote:
On the minus side, the use of the boxing glove arrow — a nod to one of the most famous, albeit silliest, of Green Arrow's gimmick arrows from the comics — went by much too quickly. If you're going to have Ollie stick a boxing glove onto an arrow, there needs to be some combination of fanfare, slo-mo, and Oliver shrugging at how desperate circumstances are forcing him to do such a ridiculous thing.
I disagree with him. I think winking at it in any way would have made the move totally into camp and distracted from the scene. Having it go by as matter-of-factly as it did allowed it to be a fun nod to the source material while remaining well-integrated into the action, and actually kind of cool. Like, "if you're going to have a boxing-glove arrow, here's how to do it."
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Old 11-13-2014, 09:32 PM   #18
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Do they really think, for example, that Colton Haynes is adding anything to the show? The guy basically can't act.
I have to agree.
The character of Roy could be very interesting but Colton Haynes is by far, the weakest actor of all the regulars and it does affect the level of interest I have in his character.
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Old 11-14-2014, 04:40 AM   #19
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I kept thinking the whole episode what a hypocrite Oliver was getting all holier-than-thou about Ted maybe killing someone 6 years earlier when he spent the entire first season and the 5 years before that killing everyone in sight.
But he's sowwy about it.

Oliver acts like Laurel is his teenage daughter or something with the way he orders her around. You can't do this. You can't do that. You can't hang out with this guy because he's a bad influence.
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Old 11-14-2014, 08:23 PM   #20
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Just echoing what others have said.

I question Katie Cassidy's ability to pull of Canary, I did like Sara though.
Oliver being hypocritical because he was killing people 2 years ago and it turns out Wildcat never killed anyone.
Actor playing Roy sucks.
I think Thea will wind up as "Speedy".
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Old 11-15-2014, 08:33 AM   #21
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'Course, it IS the CW Hollywood Vancouver, so even the "unattractive" people are simply gorgeous, but wearing frumpy clothes or glasses.
FYP.
FYP.

(Bitter about runaway production. )
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Old 11-15-2014, 09:04 AM   #22
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FYP.

(Bitter about runaway production. )
Isn't Vancouver just a suburb of Hollywood?
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Old 11-15-2014, 02:18 PM   #23
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Isn't Vancouver just a suburb of Hollywood?
Much longer commute.
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Old 11-15-2014, 02:53 PM   #24
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Much longer commute.
Depends on how clogged the 405 is...I think there are days when Vancouver is more convenient to downtown than Van Nuys.
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