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Old 01-09-2007, 06:00 PM   #151
kjmcdonald
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj
Once again I must re-iterate: Cablecards are not the only extra cost involved. In order to get cablecards you must also subscribe to digital cable which is pretty significant cost on your monthly bill. If all you care about in digital lineup are the unencrypted digital channels then you could save a bundle per month by not getting digital cable service and not renting cablecards. For me that would mean about $17/month in savings on cable bill.
No I don't think so. You don't have to. The Cable Company might like you to believe that, but I think the exact opposite is true.

Just like the FCC requires Cable companies to offer the broadcast channels in a in-expensive package, I beleive they force the CC's to include the digital versions of these channels in the same package, and I could be wrong, but I think the CC's have to let you have the CableCARDs if you need them to tune in these digital channels that they have to provide in that 'cheap' package.

This broadcast basic package is usuallay $10 -$15/month I think, and while they may get $0 to $10 more for 2 CableCARDs, I don't think they should be able to force you to get those other packages and pay those other fees.

Someone who knows more about the FCC rules can correct me if I'm wrong though.

-Kyle
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Old 01-09-2007, 07:07 PM   #152
dwynne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashu
Dennis, the CC pricing as well as the 'being forced to get a digital tier' is not accurate with Comcast. Who's your provider? You may want to call/escalate/complain.

Some people are paying $17 for basic cable, 2CCs and no addons!
As russwong said - "some people". The Comcast here is charging $5 per month per card "rental" (plus taxes) and may or not allow cards to be renter by folks on limited/lifeline basic cable. Also, there are lots of clear QAM channels available that are NOT included if you do have the cable cards = so you pay more and get less.

Then you add in all the folks having issues with the cards and it just gets worse.

It sounds like folks that want this to work "right" without a cable card are in the minority, everytime someone asks for Tivo to fix it a bunch of folks just tells just to shut up and rent cable cards. If that is the attitude at Tivo, then I suppose it will never get fixed properly.

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Old 01-09-2007, 07:09 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjmcdonald
This broadcast basic package is usuallay $10 -$15/month I think, and while they may get $0 to $10 more for 2 CableCARDs, I don't think they should be able to force you to get those other packages and pay those other fees.
If Tivo added clear QAM mapping, then we would not be forced to rent two cable cards to make it work. Why spend $120 + taxes extra a year for something that Tivo should have built into the S3 from the start?

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Old 01-09-2007, 07:14 PM   #154
kjmcdonald
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko62580
Well here is the message I recieved back from my cable company. I have to say that going to my town administrator speeded up the process, but it sounds like I still cannot get a cable card.

Here is the reply.
I spoke with the Town Administrator of &*(@#&*(@#@ regarding
your
e-mail referencing WMUR's Digital transmission and the ability to
receive
that channel. As you know MetroCast does offer this channel along with
several other channels offered in the Digital format. We do offer these
channels in the "clear", However if your television is not equipped
with a
"qam" tuner than you will not be able to view them. Unlike analog
channels,
this type of format is fairly new to the market and most TV's are not
equipped to support this. You are correct in stating the "FCC" requires
that
cable companies offer this at no charge if the consumer has a
television
that supports this format. Both the Cable card and a digital converter
are
options to the consumer in lieu of having a television equipped with
the qam
tuner. MetroCast offers either solution. The price quoted to you for
the
cable card is a one time pass thru cost of the cable card and
installation
charge. I would be happy to discuss any other questions you may have.
Please
feel free to e-mail me or contact me at
I realize now that this thread is a little old.

But I think actually he's wrong.

Your S3 (or any CableCARD ready TV *HAS* a QAM tuner. Getting a CableCARD isn't something you do when you don't have a QAM tuner.

Getting a CableCARD is what you do to make the QAM tuner work correctly with their cable system. For more advanced cable packages 'work correctly' does include decrypting encrypted channels. But for your purposes, 'work correctly' means accessing and interpreting the CableCo's channel lineup that is encoded in the the digital signal, that no QAM tuner can access without a CableCARD.

(Yes other tuners may be better at accessing the PSIP info that is in each channel signal - when they leave it in there, but That's different than the info the cable company sends out itself to the CableCARD and the STB's.)

A cable card is useless withouat a QAM tuner... So unlike a STB it's not a solution for those who don't have QAM tuners. He's just wrong on that.

-Kyle
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Old 01-09-2007, 07:14 PM   #155
c3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwynne
Also, there are lots of clear QAM channels available that are NOT included if you do have the cable cards = so you pay more and get less.
Yes, but you're not subscribing to those channels in the first place.

I agree that supporting manual QAM mapping would be nice, but that would be an additional feature, not a "fix". I think the majority of S3 owners need CableCards for decryption as well, not just for mapping (including myself).
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Old 01-10-2007, 12:48 PM   #156
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Still Confused

OK. I just recevied a letter from the cable company here it is!

"It is my understanding that if you were to pick up the DVR from us that
you would have to add Basic Digital Cable along with that. The price to
add the DVR which would give you basic digital cable, dvr and all 11
high def. basic channels would be $18.90/month. If you were to go this
route I would be able to throw in a free installation at that time.

I did also speak with a couple of our technicians about the addition of
TIVO. If you were to go with TIVO they stated that the unit does come
with a built in tuner and would be able to pick up the high def off air
channels for you without the cable card.

Let me know if you have any questions with this and I will try to
answer
them in a timely manner."


So do I need a Cable Card to record "in the clear" HD channels? I currently have a QAM tuner, so I know which frequencies to turn to!

Please help!
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Old 01-10-2007, 01:00 PM   #157
yunlin12
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When I first had my cable cards installed, they didn't activate it correct, and all I could get was the OTA channels, but I was also able to get the HD OTA channels at the time. I think this answers the question, even with no authorization at all to decrypt any digital channels (including sub-100 channels here), the cable cards were able to do a channel mapping, and the S3 is able to tune to the correct HD local channels and receive them. I hope this is the case in other areas as well. I think this jives with reports from others in my area, that one can tune all the local HD channels using cable cards with basic cable alone.

Extending this a little further, if cable cards' decryption functionality is not needed in receiving local HD, and the only part that's necessary is for cable cards to map the channel, then can one cable card provide channel lineup to both tuners? I have not tried this when my cable card was pre-activation, but I think it would be interesting to try, and it would save people cost of an extra cable card.
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Old 01-10-2007, 01:19 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko62580
OK. I just recevied a letter from the cable company here it is!

"It is my understanding that if you were to pick up the DVR from us that
you would have to add Basic Digital Cable along with that. The price to
add the DVR which would give you basic digital cable, dvr and all 11
high def. basic channels would be $18.90/month. If you were to go this
route I would be able to throw in a free installation at that time.

I did also speak with a couple of our technicians about the addition of
TIVO. If you were to go with TIVO they stated that the unit does come
with a built in tuner and would be able to pick up the high def off air
channels for you without the cable card.

Let me know if you have any questions with this and I will try to
answer
them in a timely manner."


So do I need a Cable Card to record "in the clear" HD channels? I currently have a QAM tuner, so I know which frequencies to turn to!

Please help!
It's my understanding that without the Cable Cards you will have no guide data for the QAM channels. This means that any recordings you want to do on those channels have to be manual recordings. You could not set up season passes or wishlists to record from these.
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Old 01-10-2007, 01:29 PM   #159
Mike Farrington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko62580
So do I need a Cable Card to record "in the clear" HD channels? I currently have a QAM tuner, so I know which frequencies to turn to!
While you can see the HD channels without a CableCARD, recording them is currently problematic. Since there is no guide data for such channels, you have limited recording options which nullify TiVo's user-friendliness. The whole point of this discussion is to get TiVo to better support QAM channels when not using CableCARD(s).
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Old 01-10-2007, 01:42 PM   #160
Stormspace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farrington
While you can see the HD channels without a CableCARD, recording them is currently problematic. Since there is no guide data for such channels, you have limited recording options which nullify TiVo's user-friendliness. The whole point of this discussion is to get TiVo to better support QAM channels when not using CableCARD(s).
Is there an echo in here...here...here...
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Old 01-10-2007, 01:52 PM   #161
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Is there an echo in here...here...here...
Hehe, it took me a few minutes to read the whole page. I guess I should have refreshed before posting.
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Old 01-10-2007, 06:49 PM   #162
c3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yunlin12
Extending this a little further, if cable cards' decryption functionality is not needed in receiving local HD, and the only part that's necessary is for cable cards to map the channel, then can one cable card provide channel lineup to both tuners?
Yes, but I think only after the guided setup is run with two cards.
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Old 10-27-2007, 01:28 AM   #163
cogx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwynne
If Tivo added clear QAM mapping, then we would not be forced to rent two cable cards to make it work. Why spend $120 + taxes extra a year for something that Tivo should have built into the S3 from the start?

Dennis
Wow, someone is still keeping up the good fight over this, a year later. I long ago gave up on it.

It is sad that it will never happen, because the programming logic of adding the extra channel-to-station guide data mapping should be trivial. We already have the guide data for our local broadcast stations in our S3. Those same stations are usually carried sans encryption on most of our cable systems, so we get the benefit of watching our local broadcast DTV, without having to worry about our own individual antenna reception issues.

Unfortunately, to make it useful to *record* those channels, instead of relying on our OTA antenna reception, we just need the most basic interface possible that just lets us associate those "extra" cable channels with the same guide data that ALREADY EXISTS in our system:

If we have this already in our system:
antenna channel 3-1 ----> Guide data for KABC-DT
cable channel 12 ----> Guide data for KABC-DT

We just need to be able to define this for ourselves, on the channel setup screen:
cable channel 113-2 ----> Guide data for KABC-DT


If I can pull up antenna channel 3-1 and cable channel 12 and get guide data for station KABC-DT, there is no technical reason why they can't allow me to ALSO link cable channel 113-2 to the same KABC-DT station guide data already there.

I don't know why people try to make this so complicated, why talk of CableCARDs always comes up. This has nothing at all to do with CableCARDs.
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Old 10-27-2007, 02:23 AM   #164
c3
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Originally Posted by cogx
Wow, someone is still keeping up the good fight over this, a year later. I long ago gave up on it.
Huh? You're the one that brought it back from the grave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cogx
cable channel 113-2 ----> Guide data for KABC-DT.
That can become 113-3 tomorrow, and you won't know about it until it's too late.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cogx
I don't know why people try to make this so complicated, why talk of CableCARDs always comes up. This has nothing at all to do with CableCARDs.
CableCard handles the channel mapping automatically.
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Old 10-27-2007, 11:37 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c3
Huh? You're the one that brought it back from the grave.
Sorry about that, I had like 6 tabs open on different threads on the site and somehow ended up on this page and mistakenly thought it was active thread, not seeing no one had posted since January 07. Dumb, dumb, dumb!

Ok, we'll leave the dead dog to RIP.


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