TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-20-2006, 04:43 PM   #31
btwyx
Substantive Member
 
btwyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 11,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormspace
I was under the impression that QAM would be limited to broadcast stations only. Everything else would be encrypted. Is that wrong?
Every thing on cable is QAM. Some is broadcast in the clear, some is encrypted. When I scanned the QAM channels with my S3 it found all 500 channels, I had to go find the ones which were in the clear.

QAM doesn't mean unencrypted.
__________________
Premier Elite, Lifetime
Premier XL, Lifetime
Premier Lifetime (at Mom's)
btwyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 05:26 PM   #32
Scopeman
2 x Basic Roamio
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by vstone
It would be cheaper just to rent the two Cablecards for a few bucks each. If you can afford a $800 DVR, you can afford to rent the cablecards.

An unsupported backdoor for advanced users would be nice, though.

Ther is an open question about QAM channel mapping. Our vacation house TV maps some, but not all, clear qam channels to proper channel numbers (ie, 805) and doesn't see some at all. Some STB's with clear QAM tuners map some channels, and others map all, when tested on the same cable feed. There may be a question of chip set and/or firmware. At least one clear QAM STB only covers up to channel 125. Some cable company headends may not be programmed properly and good luck in trying to speak to somewhat intelligent enough to help figure that out. I talked with a cable system head end tech (not an install tech), who really didn;t understand clear QAM tuners.
I am very surprised to find a thread on this topic.

I live in Austin, TX where we get about locals in the clear via QAM as part of "life-line" cable ($13/month).

I sent Tivo a "Lineup Error" report listing the QAM channels and the correct mapping, using this URL:
http://tivo.instancy.com/external/LineUpForm.aspx

Tivo called our local TW office and got the mapping confirmed, and then updated the channels in the guide to show the same schedule as the comparable OTA channels. Took about 2 to 3 weeks total.

Why would this option not work for all other markets with clear QAM?
__________________
Scopeman
Scopeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 05:47 PM   #33
moyekj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 9,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormspace
I was under the impression that QAM would be limited to broadcast stations only. Everything else would be encrypted. Is that wrong?
QAM is a modulation scheme and is short for Quadrature Amplitude Modulation. There are many different types of QAM modulation schemes but most cable companies these days use QAM 256 for digital cable transmission. For analog channels it's an entirely different modulation scheme following NTSC standards.

In any case, QAM has nothing to do with encryption. As stated you can have some digital channels that are encrypted and some that are not. "Clear QAM" is a shorthand to describe digital cable channels that are unencrypted, and typically at least the HD local transmissions are usually re-transmitted by the cable company unencrypted.

The crux of this thread is that if Tivo provided a way of us telling it which channels in the guide lineup map to the specific QAM channel-subchannels then one would not have to subscribe to digital cable or need to rent cablecards to tune these channels which could result in significant savings/month on your cable bill. As it is right now without cablecards you can setup manual recordings for these channels but cannot associate them to guide channels and hence no season passes etc. are possible.
__________________
Roamio Pro, Elite, Premiere
Cox - Motorola CableCards & TAs
Slingbox 350 via TiVo Mini & TiVo Stream for remote viewing

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
moyekj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 05:52 PM   #34
mportuesi
As seen on TV
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,891
There are several known bugs in the Series 3 software, such as audio dropouts, toxic broadcasts and partial recordings. Plus, there's the known bugs in the latest 8.1 release that hit S2 units and will be hitting S3 before long.

Personally I'd rather Tivo fix these bugs in their software before implementing features such as QAM channel remapping. QAM remapping is:

1) unnecessary (get CableCARD),
2) useful to a very few technically savvy users,
3) is confusing and contrary to the simple Tivo end-user experience, and
4) is likely to result in lots of complaints and customer service issues for Tivo.

And that's not even including missing features like MRV and eSATA, which most S3 owners (including myself) would much rather see.

Last edited by mportuesi : 11-20-2006 at 06:03 PM.
mportuesi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 06:09 PM   #35
hiker
S.o.N.Y.D.a.C.
 
hiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: SF Bay Area (Novato)
Posts: 1,352
Well stated, mportuesi, I agree. Two cablecards are only $1.50/mo. here with Comcast and when multistream cards are available it should be no cost.
__________________
DirecTV TiVo HR10-250
DirecTV STB Samsung SIR-TS360
DirecTV DVR HR20-100
TiVo Series 3 Comcast
hiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 08:08 PM   #36
moyekj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 9,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker
Well stated, mportuesi, I agree. Two cablecards are only $1.50/mo. here with Comcast and when multistream cards are available it should be no cost.
Once again I must re-iterate: Cablecards are not the only extra cost involved. In order to get cablecards you must also subscribe to digital cable which is pretty significant cost on your monthly bill. If all you care about in digital lineup are the unencrypted digital channels then you could save a bundle per month by not getting digital cable service and not renting cablecards. For me that would mean about $17/month in savings on cable bill.
__________________
Roamio Pro, Elite, Premiere
Cox - Motorola CableCards & TAs
Slingbox 350 via TiVo Mini & TiVo Stream for remote viewing

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
moyekj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 08:14 PM   #37
btwyx
Substantive Member
 
btwyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 11,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj
In order to get cablecards you must also subscribe to digital cable which is pretty significant cost on your monthly bill.
My channels are all digital. If I dropped down to $14 basic cable, I think (but haven't tested this), I'd be able to keep the cards to access them.
__________________
Premier Elite, Lifetime
Premier XL, Lifetime
Premier Lifetime (at Mom's)
btwyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 08:17 PM   #38
jfh3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Denver area
Posts: 4,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by btwyx
There's already a perfectly good solution to this "problem", its the cable card.
Sorry, but that's not a good solution - most cable companies will not even rent the CableCARDs to you in the first place if you don't already have a digital package.

The people that want this feature don't want to have to add $40-$70/month to their cable bill to record unencrypted stations using their Tivo.

This is an advanced feature - those that understand it will understand that they will have to check the mappings from time to time, unless/until Tribune starts tracking/providing this data.
jfh3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 08:20 PM   #39
jfh3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Denver area
Posts: 4,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by btwyx
My channels are all digital. If I dropped down to $14 basic cable, I think (but haven't tested this), I'd be able to keep the cards to access them.
In theory, yes.

But I doubt many cable companies have their back-end systems set up to allow this (e.g. set your cards to authorize only the unencrypted, in the clear, broadcasts).
jfh3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 08:20 PM   #40
Phantom Gremlin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Tualatin, Oregon
Posts: 1,542
Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj
In order to get cablecards you must also subscribe to digital cable which is pretty significant cost on your monthly bill.
I don't think that's true in my area.

At any rate I know for sure that you can get $10 basic cable then add a premium like HBO (supported thru cablecard) without getting digital cable. I think it's an FCC rule that MSOs must offer premiums without requiring digital cable.
Phantom Gremlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 09:04 PM   #41
mportuesi
As seen on TV
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,891
Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj
Once again I must re-iterate: Cablecards are not the only extra cost involved. In order to get cablecards you must also subscribe to digital cable which is pretty significant cost on your monthly bill.

I don't subscribe to digital cable, but I do have CableCARD. I get HD channels, and digital simulcast for the analog ones.

In my neck of the woods (Comcast San Francisco), you can get CableCARD without subscribing to digital cable, which will get you the locals in HD:

HDTV - Limited Basic

702 KTVU-2 (FOX) HD
703 KNTV-HDTV
704 KRON-HD
705 KPIX-(CBS)
707 KGO-HDTV
709 KQED-HDTV

HDTV - Digital Classic

719 InDemand - HD
720 FSNBA (Check Listings For Times)
722 Discovery - HD
723 ESPN - HD
724 ESPN 2 HD
725 HD Special Events
726 TNT HD

Note that the local stations do NOT require Digital Cable service. All they require is CableCARD for $1.50 a month. This is the exact same lineup you would get if Tivo gave you QAM mapping.
mportuesi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 10:18 PM   #42
jfh3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Denver area
Posts: 4,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by classicsat
Not for QAM.
All Tivo has for cable channels is a channel number.
The relation from that to frequency and subchannel are a function of the cablecard, although it could manually be mapped, and depencing, maybe even mapped without CC, if the data is there in the clear, and Cablelabs will allow access to it.

Sorry, I was being overly simplistic. The mapping would still be simple, just a table created from the existing channel list.
jfh3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 10:23 PM   #43
jfh3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Denver area
Posts: 4,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by mportuesi
I don't subscribe to digital cable, but I do have CableCARD. I get HD channels, and digital simulcast for the analog ones.

In my neck of the woods (Comcast San Francisco), you can get CableCARD without subscribing to digital cable, which will get you the locals in HD:

HDTV - Limited Basic

702 KTVU-2 (FOX) HD
703 KNTV-HDTV
704 KRON-HD
705 KPIX-(CBS)
707 KGO-HDTV
709 KQED-HDTV

HDTV - Digital Classic

719 InDemand - HD
720 FSNBA (Check Listings For Times)
722 Discovery - HD
723 ESPN - HD
724 ESPN 2 HD
725 HD Special Events
726 TNT HD

Note that the local stations do NOT require Digital Cable service. All they require is CableCARD for $1.50 a month. This is the exact same lineup you would get if Tivo gave you QAM mapping.
You are pretty lucky if you can get HD versions of ESPN, ESPN2 and TNT without an underlying package. That's not supposed to happen - which is probably why most cable companies require you to get a digital package.
jfh3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 10:54 PM   #44
ashu
User title defunct
 
ashu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: MD
Posts: 9,158
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfh3
You are pretty lucky if you can get HD versions of ESPN, ESPN2 and TNT without an underlying package. That's not supposed to happen - which is probably why most cable companies require you to get a digital package.
Precisely. You only still have them because your market's cable head-end folks don't know better. Goa dvertising it on *some* forums, and it will be noticed and disabled. Happened in the DC area in some Comcast neighborhoods.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(Too many TiVos!)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo!
So little time! So much to know!
ashu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 11:42 PM   #45
jfh3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Denver area
Posts: 4,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by mportuesi
There are several known bugs in the Series 3 software, such as audio dropouts, toxic broadcasts and partial recordings. Plus, there's the known bugs in the latest 8.1 release that hit S2 units and will be hitting S3 before long.

Personally I'd rather Tivo fix these bugs in their software before implementing features such as QAM channel remapping. QAM remapping is:

1) unnecessary (get CableCARD),
2) useful to a very few technically savvy users,
3) is confusing and contrary to the simple Tivo end-user experience, and
4) is likely to result in lots of complaints and customer service issues for Tivo.

And that's not even including missing features like MRV and eSATA, which most S3 owners (including myself) would much rather see.
For anyone that understands what QAM mapping is, it's not confusing at all. The Sony DHG box does it and it is trivial - no reason the S3 can't do the same. Would I like to see other features have a higher priority over this? Sure.
jfh3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 11:53 PM   #46
moyekj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 9,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by mportuesi
I don't subscribe to digital cable, but I do have CableCARD. I get HD channels, and digital simulcast for the analog ones.
I would venture to say this is an exception, not the rule. I asked my cable company about dropping digital cable and keeping the cablecards and they said that's not possible. Some in this forum have stated in the past you can just cancel digital service and hope they don't ask for the cablecards back and don't notice the "strange" configuration of the account with cablecard charges and no digital cable service. In any event that seems like a questionable way to keep things setup at best and I wouldn't want to count on that to continue working unchallenged.

I agree this should not have priority over bug fixes, MRV, TTG, etc. but to totally discount it as a worthless request when there are clearly many who want and understand the implications of it is going too far.
__________________
Roamio Pro, Elite, Premiere
Cox - Motorola CableCards & TAs
Slingbox 350 via TiVo Mini & TiVo Stream for remote viewing

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by moyekj : 11-20-2006 at 11:59 PM.
moyekj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 12:10 AM   #47
mportuesi
As seen on TV
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,891
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfh3
You are pretty lucky if you can get HD versions of ESPN, ESPN2 and TNT without an underlying package. That's not supposed to happen - which is probably why most cable companies require you to get a digital package.
Please go back and read what I wrote. The "Limited Basic" channels do not require digital cable. The "Digital Classic" channels do. The "Limited Basic" channels are exactly the same ones you would get through clear QAM channel remapping.
mportuesi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 01:44 AM   #48
Saxion
Substantive Member
 
Saxion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 485
Quote:
Originally Posted by mportuesi
Please go back and read what I wrote. The "Limited Basic" channels do not require digital cable. The "Digital Classic" channels do. The "Limited Basic" channels are exactly the same ones you would get through clear QAM channel remapping.
If you are able to get CableCards on "Limited Basic" service, then you are very lucky. I guarantee this is not how things work in my neck of the woods, because I asked. I have to subscribe to some sort of digital programming (HBO, HDTV, etc) to get a CableCard.

THANKS to all of you who put in this feature request!
Saxion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 06:13 AM   #49
MScottC
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 614
is CableLabs involved in quashing?

I too am for a "backdoor" or "advanced user" option, where one is warned of all the pitfalls of Manual QAM Mapping. Given all the potential pitfalls involved in mapping, especially the work involved in setting up the mapping, and the potential of headend changes screwing up that most important recording, this is a function that could ruin the "user experience" for all but the more tech savvy users.

I really do wonder, if one of the cablelab requirements imposed on TiVo is the use of CCs in order to find/tune and use the channels. I too, am in a market where they mandate buying the digital tier and an additional outlet fee in order to rent 2 cable cards at $1.50/month. I won't know what my total bill will be for another 10 or so months, as the good folks at Comcast put me (unbeknownst to me till I got my first bill since the CC install) a promotion for Digital Silver for a year. If my bill goes up horrendously at the end of this promotion, I too may be wishing for QAM mapping in order to record the three major networks, which quite frankly make up the vast majority of what my wife and I watch.
MScottC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 09:31 AM   #50
vstone
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Martinsville, VA
Posts: 1,223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saxion
...
I really don't understand why anybody would argue against adding this feature. How does this personally affect you negatively? Is there any downside, at all, to anyone? On the plus side, it adds more subs, which is good for TiVo, who desperately needs them.
I'm not really against it. In fact I hope it becomes supported if the S3 supports MRV soon. I'd love to have a second S3 in the bedroom wher I can go when my wife is using the main TV for shows that don't appeal top me. This second TV would not need the cablecards.

My real point is that there are unresolved issues with QAM tuners. These issues may be chip, firmware, etc related. At this point we can't really say that cable companies are not a partial cause. These may be some techical reason why the S3 chipset cannot even detect all clear QAM channels.

It would be nice if Tivo would say whether or not there is an issue with the S3, with the cable companies, etc and say whether thsi feature can be added without rewtiting significant pieces of code. Remember analog channels are self defined by their frequency. The Tivo was designed to get digital cable channel numbers from the cablecard. Maybe they didn't foresee or dismissed the desire for manual mapping of QAM channels. Maybe there is a technical reason why the S3 can't detect and/or can't manually assign clear QAM channels.

It would be nice for them to say something on the matter.
vstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 09:36 AM   #51
vstone
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Martinsville, VA
Posts: 1,223
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfh3
In theory, yes.

But I doubt many cable companies have their back-end systems set up to allow this (e.g. set your cards to authorize only the unencrypted, in the clear, broadcasts).
Hear, Hear!

How many hear think that cable operations are properly set up everywhere? Anywhere? We just recently got TCM in stereo here. The instalations techs are system techs are given only enough info to make the system work and rarely have time to do anything beyond that!
vstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 09:39 AM   #52
moyekj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 9,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by vstone
Maybe there is a technical reason why the S3 can't detect and/or can't manually assign clear QAM channels.
Before I got cablecards my S3 was able to tune to all unencrypted QAM channels. A scan did not find them all but since I keep track of the unencrypted channels with a QAM capable PC tuner card I know exactly where they are and could directly tune them and then add them to the channel lineup. The only thing missing is a means of manually associating them with guide channels.
__________________
Roamio Pro, Elite, Premiere
Cox - Motorola CableCards & TAs
Slingbox 350 via TiVo Mini & TiVo Stream for remote viewing

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
moyekj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 11:42 AM   #53
vstone
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Martinsville, VA
Posts: 1,223
Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj
Before I got cablecards my S3 was able to tune to all unencrypted QAM channels. A scan did not find them all but since I keep track of the unencrypted channels with a QAM capable PC tuner card I know exactly where they are and could directly tune them and then add them to the channel lineup. The only thing missing is a means of manually associating them with guide channels.
Sounds to me like your S3 could not find all of the clear QAM channels by itself. All mine found was about 16 versions of channel "0."
vstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 12:04 PM   #54
ashu
User title defunct
 
ashu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: MD
Posts: 9,158
(moyekj & vstone) That is VERY odd. Mine found all (100+) QAM-in-the-clear channels, including the 4 local HD OTAs, PBS, a few inDemand/PPV 'channels' currently active and a plethora of MusicChoice channels (with a background album art/poop-up video thing) and another plethora of sound-only music channels.

Every single one that my HDTV's QAM tuner also found.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(Too many TiVos!)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo!
So little time! So much to know!
ashu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 12:20 PM   #55
vstone
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Martinsville, VA
Posts: 1,223
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashu
(moyekj & vstone) That is VERY odd. Mine found all (100+) QAM-in-the-clear channels, including the 4 local HD OTAs, PBS, a few inDemand/PPV 'channels' currently active and a plethora of MusicChoice channels (with a background album art/poop-up video thing) and another plethora of sound-only music channels.

Every single one that my HDTV's QAM tuner also found.
That's why I think that cable head-end setups are part of the problem.

Some S3's have no problems, some have some problems, some have lots of problems. It would be interesting to see if we could correlate problems to one or more specific cable companies (although it's more likely to be specific to a cable system than a cable company) and/or one of more pieces of head-end equipment make/model. It might be that the only way to address this area is for the FCC to pressure the cable companies and opencable labs to look into this and fix what needs to be fixed.

Sounds like the S3 doesn't have a problem with properly setup cable systems, but it could just be that the S3 was not tested against a wide variety of cable systems and/or head-end equipment.

I don't expect a quick resolution, but it would be nice for Tivo to acknowledge the issue and suspected causes.
vstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 12:48 PM   #56
Stormspace
Electrocuted by TiVo
 
Stormspace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hartsville, SC
Posts: 4,792
Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj
QAM is a modulation scheme and is short for Quadrature Amplitude Modulation. There are many different types of QAM modulation schemes but most cable companies these days use QAM 256 for digital cable transmission. For analog channels it's an entirely different modulation scheme following NTSC standards.

In any case, QAM has nothing to do with encryption. As stated you can have some digital channels that are encrypted and some that are not. "Clear QAM" is a shorthand to describe digital cable channels that are unencrypted, and typically at least the HD local transmissions are usually re-transmitted by the cable company unencrypted.

The crux of this thread is that if Tivo provided a way of us telling it which channels in the guide lineup map to the specific QAM channel-subchannels then one would not have to subscribe to digital cable or need to rent cablecards to tune these channels which could result in significant savings/month on your cable bill. As it is right now without cablecards you can setup manual recordings for these channels but cannot associate them to guide channels and hence no season passes etc. are possible.
I got that, but what btwyx was saying suggested that an unlimited set of Clear QAM channels would be available. My contention was that it would likely be a limited set based on local broadcast HD stations only. Currently there are what, four major networks and two minor plus independents? Granted in a densely populated area like DC this might add up to a lot, but for most of the country we are talking at most maybe 10 stations. Currently in my area with a good roof mounted antennae I can get ABC, CBS, Fox, CW, PBS, and NBC (Maybe). Unfortunately I don't have a good roof mounted aerial, so I only get CBS and ABC without cable. Still I don't think TW is going to give me anything other than locals without making me pay more.
__________________
137hr DTS2
20/180hr HD
166hr DTS2
180hr S2

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Stormspace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 03:01 PM   #57
woodie
Registered User
 
woodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Menlo Park, CA
Posts: 55
Until recently, I had a cable trap that filtered out out 35-66. My Series 2 was able to record 68 SciFi, but my Series3 (with cablecards) was not.. channel 68 was blocked. I also noticed that the series 3 was able to tune some of the analog channels that were filtered out, like 48 Bravo, 56 CNN, 65 Court TV, because the cablecards were remapping a digital to the lower channel number.

Now that I have extended basic, I can tell that most of the lower channels are now digital (remapped QAM channel, replacing the same analog channel). My recordings from 15 Discovery, 68 SciFi, 63 Comedy Central and 37 TNT are of a superior quality to what I would see from my Pioneer 810H, with component video out.

Cablecards make most of your channels look really good, they are simple to install (in my experience), and they are extremely inexpensive (for me: first one free, second one $1.50/mo), so if you have cable and a Series 3, get the cablecards.
woodie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 03:27 PM   #58
vstone
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Martinsville, VA
Posts: 1,223
You are assuming that you have digital versions of the analog channels. I do not. However, the S3's MPEG processing on the analog channels also works very well.
vstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 03:35 PM   #59
gbrown
Registered User
 
gbrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 74
Another way to do this is to split the cable. I run one side into my Bravia and the other into my S3. That allows me to watch a QAM encoded HiDef channel on the TV while I record 2 other channels on my TiVo.

The Bravia does a fine job of tuning any and all digital channels. Albeit it takes 30 to 50 minutes to tune and then anothe 30 to 60 minutes deleating the digital audio and unwanted (shopping for me) channels.
gbrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 03:45 PM   #60
btwyx
Substantive Member
 
btwyx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 11,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormspace
I got that, but what btwyx was saying suggested that an unlimited set of Clear QAM channels would be available. My contention was that it would likely be a limited set based on local broadcast HD stations only.
I only said there's potentially unlimited number of QAM channels, up till them you never mentioned "clear", that's one difference in what you're saying.

Also its not just HD stations which are in clear QAM, its all the basic cable stations for me. That's all the broadcast stations, all the crap stations (home shopping, local access etc) and the lowest tier of the good channels (CNN, Discovery, Travel, etc).

There were about 60 clear QAM (sub) channels on my system when I looked.

I can't remember if the music channels were clear, if they were, there were another 100-200 clear QAM channels to look through.
__________________
Premier Elite, Lifetime
Premier XL, Lifetime
Premier Lifetime (at Mom's)
btwyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:46 AM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |