Fall 2006 Pricing Changes - FAQ

[HDTiVo]

Originally Posted by Pab Sungenis

Why is everyone so confused? It's very straightforward if you just stop and think.

Basic TiVo service for already purchased units is $12.95 or $13.95, depending on when you bought the unit. MSD is the current monthly rate discounted by $6.00. ($6.95 for pre-November purchases, $7.95 for post-November purchases.)

Those rates are for a minimum one-year commitment. Agreeing to a longer term discounts that rate further.

If you buy a TiVo unit (basic S2) bundled with the service, then the price goes up an extra $6.00, to $19.95 a month for your one year commitment. This is to pay for the box itself. At the end of the year, the TiVo is yours free and clear, and if you continue the service, it's $13.95 a month, or $7.95 a month if you use MSD.

If you want a S2DT, you're charged an upfront cost (depending upon the number of hours), plus the $19.95 a month. At the end of the year, the box is yours and the service goes to $13.95 a month.

If you want an S3, you're charged $799.99 up front, and $13.95 a month for service, or $7.95 with MSD.

Everyone here is comparing apples to oranges. Yes, the price of service went up, but if you're NOT buying a TiVo as part of the bundle, it only went up by $1.00 a month.

You forgot to indicate sarcasm in the post...

This symbol can help:

[MickeS]

Maybe someone should delete Pab Sungenis post so that crackhead pricing info doesn't spread.

[HDTiVo]

Originally Posted by jeffk

Besides the confusion, my main gripe with this pricign plan is it seems to not take series 3 into consideration. In situations of the series 2 where you are effectivly getting the box for free [or greatly reduced] and paying a higher monthy, i don't agree, but see the argument. But with a series 3, nothign changed, but the prices went up for service, shouldn't the price fo a series 3 of been dropped to offset this, as Pony said he doesn't see much of a difference [because its all compared to series 2]. But series3 was ignored in this pricing decision.

How, convenient.

The FAQ still largely only answers clearly the questions that were already answered clearly before the FAQ.

For nearly two weeks now, TiVo is doing business with a set of poorly defined terms. The terms on their Web Site are also not fully updated to reflect the changes...last I saw early this week.

TiVo is selling new hardware, renewing contracts, subing old hardware, etal. with much of this unsettled.

[HDTiVo]

Originally Posted by samo

Just occurred to me that it could be simple accounting/Wall Street decision. TiVo has a stock of unsold single tuner S2's that hey have to get rid off by March. If they don't, they would have to destroy them and deduct and show it in SEC filings as loss, disclosing number of unsold units in a process. Instead they try to encourage users who overwise would re-activate old units to get a new one for free. This way they can write off losses as customer acquisition cost.

You are getting a bit warmer.

[HDTiVo]

Originally Posted by BobCamp1

Even more advice: I usually tape my conversations with CS so I have my own copy,

I can't believe you don't TiVo your CS conversations. Get with it, man.

[winpitt]

Originally Posted by BobCamp1

You're never going to get it in writing. Every service comes with that "we can change anything at anytime" clause. So you don't want people to complain when they buy anything? That's realy helpful advice.

Here's better advice: file a complaint with the BBB. Tivo's not a member, but currently has a satisfactory rating. People here don't sound satisfied to me.

Even more advice: I usually tape my conversations with CS so I have my own copy, and also ask for names and ID numbers, etc. If CS promised something it is a verbally binding agreement in most states. Or if someone from Tivo posts in an electronic forum (which is why TivoPony and TivoStephen have been silent lately). If you mention this, it's usually is enough to get them to make an exception for you.

If you are not informing them at the beginning of each conversation with each person you talk to (for example if you get transfered to another rep) you are in violation of federal law. Even if they state up front that the call could be recorded for quality purposes you must still inform them and get consent to record the conversation. For what it's worth.

[bmgoodman]

Originally Posted by winpitt

If you are not informing them at the beginning of each conversation with each person you talk to (for example if you get transfered to another rep) you are in violation of federal law. Even if they state up front that the call could be recorded for quality purposes you must still inform them and get consent to record the conversation. For what it's worth.

Are you a lawyer? I am not, but I believe you are wrong. My understanding is that 38 states permit taping a phone conversation by either of the two parties, WITHOUT the consent of the other party. See http://www.rcfp.org/taping/ or google it yourself. So tape away, so long as you don't live in California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania or Washington.

[JohnBrowning]

So, after 12 pages of whining, I don't recall mention of any businesses that never change their pricing...

[Gai-jin]

Originally Posted by JohnBrowning

So, after 12 pages of whining, I don't recall mention of any businesses that never change their pricing...

Did you have something to contribute to the thread? Oh, I didn't think so.

[rainwater]

Originally Posted by JohnBrowning

So, after 12 pages of whining, I don't recall mention of any businesses that never change their pricing...

Did you read any of the posts? A lot of questions about the change in pricing have not been answered yet.

[HDTiVo]

Originally Posted by JohnBrowning

So, after 12 pages of whining, I don't recall mention of any businesses that never change their pricing...

Yeah, amazingly no one has been that stupid.


----------------------
The Five & Dime
The 99 Cent Store
The Dollar Store
Penny Candy
----------------------

[timckelley]

Jack in the Box: 2 tacos for 99 cents as long as I can remember, and I've been buying them over for over 20 years at that price.

[ChuckyBox]

Originally Posted by samo

Instead they try to encourage users who overwise would re-activate old units to get a new one for free. This way they can write off losses as customer acquisition cost.

Great thinking. Run up SAC and churn so you don't have to write down inventory. No analysts would notice that.

[samo]

Originally Posted by ChuckyBox

Great thinking. Run up SAC and churn so you don't have to write down inventory. No analysts would notice that.

Although you attempted to be sarcastic, you actually came up with a good explanation. Nobody will notice higher SAC and churn in Q4 due to large volume of sales, but huge write down of inventory in Q1 may create a panic.

[MickeS]

Originally Posted by timckelley

Jack in the Box: 2 tacos for 99 cents as long as I can remember, and I've been buying them over for over 20 years at that price.

In other words, it used to be a complete ripoff!

[bicker]

Originally Posted by BobCamp1

You're never going to get it in writing. Every service comes with that "we can change anything at anytime" clause. So you don't want people to complain when they buy anything? That's realy helpful advice.

It is, actually, and you've amplified what I've said with what you've said here. People should ensure that their expectations match what they've been promised, not what they desire. That's perhaps the best advice anyone could give, here on the forums, and unfortunately advice which is not given as much as it should be.

Here's better advice: file a complaint with the BBB.

No, that's worse advice. It won't actually address the problem and it will just foster frustration in the customer. It probably will serve actually no constructive purpose whatsoever.

Tivo's not a member, but currently has a satisfactory rating. People here don't sound satisfied to me.

People are always pissed off online. It's not a good indicator of how satisfactory anything is in reality.

Even more advice: I usually tape my conversations with CS so I have my own copy, and also ask for names and ID numbers, etc.

Speak to a lawyer regarding the legality of this, if you plan to do it without warning the CSR beforehand.

[bicker]

Originally Posted by Gai-jin

Did you have something to contribute to the thread? Oh, I didn't think so.

Gosh, what an incredibly self-centered remark!!! JohnBrowning was very adroitly pointing out how no one came up with a single example that would indicate that this price change was outrageously inappropriate, as you and others seemed to be indicating earlier in this thread. Look: Make your points, and let everyone else make theirs. If your points cannot stand up to the rebuttals by others, that's YOUR problem, not theirs.

[Gai-jin]

Originally Posted by bicker

Gosh, what an incredibly self-centered remark!!! JohnBrowning was very adroitly pointing out how no one came up with a single example that would indicate that this price change was outrageously inappropriate, as you and others seemed to be indicating earlier in this thread. Look: Make your points, and let everyone else make theirs. If your points cannot stand up to the rebuttals by others, that's YOUR problem, not theirs.

And yet, he starts with an attack and ends with a one liner. Doesn't seem to be very constructive.

After all, in these 12 pages, there have been MANY good examples of companies that don't raise their prices 54% overnight. There have been MANY good examples of situations which this faq doesn't cover. I wonder if perhaps he hasn't read the 12 pages, and just felt like getting his trolling in for the day?

[ChuckyBox]

Originally Posted by samo

Although you attempted to be sarcastic, you actually came up with a good explanation. Nobody will notice higher SAC and churn in Q4 due to large volume of sales, but huge write down of inventory in Q1 may create a panic.

Everyone will notice an increase in churn. It is one of the highlights of TiVo business, and a metric they've actively worked to keep under control.

Let it go. You are publicly accusing TiVo management of adopting business practices with the intent to deceive or mislead investors. That's probably actionable.

[classicX]

Originally Posted by winpitt

If you are not informing them at the beginning of each conversation with each person you talk to (for example if you get transfered to another rep) you are in violation of federal law. Even if they state up front that the call could be recorded for quality purposes you must still inform them and get consent to record the conversation. For what it's worth.

Wrong. In my state I don't have to get consent - only one party (me) needs to know that the call is being recorded.

The "one party needs to know" part means that taping other peoples' conversations without them knowing is still illegal.

[MickeS]

Originally Posted by Gai-jin

And yet, he starts with an attack and ends with a one liner. Doesn't seem to be very constructive.

After all, in these 12 pages, there have been MANY good examples of companies that don't raise their prices 54% overnight. There have been MANY good examples of situations which this faq doesn't cover. I wonder if perhaps he hasn't read the 12 pages, and just felt like getting his trolling in for the day?

Let it go. You've been whining about this on and on and on and on and on and on and ON for days now. You're pretty much the only one that keeps harping about this. We get it.

[HDTiVo]

Originally Posted by ChuckyBox

Everyone will notice an increase in churn. It is one of the highlights of TiVo business, and a metric they've actively worked to keep under control.

Let it go. You are publicly accusing TiVo management of adopting business practices with the intent to deceive or mislead investors. That's probably actionable.

You are such a total Troll.

What are you doing intimidating someone for expressing themselves when they sniff around an area that threatens your vested insterests?

Oh, and "someone" obviously did notice "something" when the new plans were released.

[Gai-jin]

Originally Posted by MickeS

Let it go. You've been whining about this on and on and on and on and on and on and ON for days now. You're pretty much the only one that keeps harping about this. We get it.

Hmm, odd. I've been fairly quiet these last few days, except to point out the trolls when they pop up.

Fact is, I've made clear why I object to the new pricing. I think nearly everyone here agrees with me. If you don't, so be it. But you don't have to come crying here and trying to belittle others because you disagree.

[ZeoTiVo]

well this thread is going well and just chock full of good info and questions about the new pricing

[Gai-jin]

Zeo-- I think the issue is that for all the great questions that have been asked here, TiVo has yet to answer. It took them nearly a week to post even this rudimentary faq, and since then, they've been utterly silent on the matter.

There are lots of good questions and what-ifs in here. There's also my primary complaint, which I'd like to see comment on. (In Short -- There should be a reduced commitment/price structure for users who own 'paid-for' tivo hardware and wish to subscribe or resubscribe it.)

It just seems to me that, with 12 pages in this thread and something like 8 pages in the old thread, it wouldn't hurt to get a couple more 'clarifying' posts from someone at TiVo. I would consider that part of customer service. Unfortunately, that aspect of the business seems to have gone downhill over the years.

[timckelley]

Yes, the FAQ definitely needs a 2.0 posted. Then again, as dswallow points out, their position may not be very defensible, and so they might be afraid to post a 2.0 FAQ. But we still need one, though, defensible or not.

[Phantom Gremlin]

Originally Posted by ChuckyBox

You are publicly accusing TiVo management of adopting business practices with the intent to deceive or mislead investors. That's probably actionable.

That's nonsense.

This forum is more of a "bull session" than anything else. It is random, mostly anonymous, people's personal opinion.

It is my personal opinion that the people at TiVo responsible for the latest pricing fiasco are moronic pinheads.

Is that actionable?

Edit: Just to follow up on my comments, here is something from Wikipedia. I know that Wikipedia is not in any way authoritative, and I know that random problems debated here are probably too trivial to be in the "public interest", but I think the essence of the libel laws is that people should feel free to discuss issues of importance to them without worrying about yahoos throwing around words like "actionable" when they disagree with what is being said.

In the various states, whether by case law or actual legislation, there are generally several "privileges" that can get a defamation case dismissed without proceeding to trial. These include the allegedly defamatory statement being one of opinion rather than fact; or being "fair comment and criticism", as it is important to society that everyone be able to comment on matters of public interest.

[SnakeEyes]

Well this took an interesting turn.

[ChuckyBox]

Originally Posted by HDTiVo

You are such a total Troll.

You and Gai-jin need to learn the definition of "troll." Then you need to look in the mirror.

What are you doing intimidating someone for expressing themselves when they sniff around an area that threatens your vested insterests?

I'm not protecting my "vested insterests [sic]" (as usual, you think you know more than you do), I'm pointing out that there is a difference between expressing opinions and accusing someone of wrongdoing. While there is precedent for companies going after individuals on message boards, I assume TiVo's management have thicker skins than to worry about what is a minor, isolated incident. But that doesn't make it any less inappropriate or distasteful.

I frankly don't understand why you people who hate TiVo so much spend your time on a TiVo board trying to run down the company and the products. (NB: there is a definition of "troll" in that statement.) It makes one wonder if you have some "vested interest" in doing so.

Oh, and "someone" obviously did notice "something" when the new plans were released.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

[dswallow]

Originally Posted by ChuckyBox

I frankly don't understand why you people who hate TiVo so much spend your time on a TiVo board trying to run down the company and the products. (NB: there is a definition of "troll" in that statement.) It makes one wonder if you have some "vested interest" in doing so.

It's usually those who have a passionate love for a product who will criticize moves like this one the most and the loudest; and that's because they believe so much in the product and believe that the decision the company made will hurt that product.

If these pricing moves were announced by Echostar, I wouldn't care much at all; in fact I might even jump for joy since I'd believe they'd cause people to switch from Dish Network to DirecTV.

I'm sure TiVo's competition and would-be-competition are happy about this latest pricing change, though.