Fall 2006 Pricing Changes - FAQ

[timckelley]

Originally Posted by rainwater

But then when the contract is over they are basically telling bundled users who contracts are almost over that we are a bunch of suckers.

Apparently, from a lot of the testimony here, many of us are.

[Einselen]

Originally Posted by rainwater

The problem is they sold a lot of these one year bundled offers based off the fact that we could get a better monthly price on the boxes (and MSD) once the year was up. But then when the contract is over they are basically telling bundled users who contracts are almost over that we are a bunch of suckers.

I understand how you feel cheated or suckered however if you buy a 1 yr of service now do you expect after that year is up you will be able to sign up for 3 more years at $12.95/month? (Assume this is your only Tivo and don't plan to get another in the year)

Should Tivo honor the old prices especially for thos in your situation who bought a package to save money and hassle then buying retail and applying the MSD on that box? In good business practice probably. Should you have expected that in one year the price plans would be the same? No not unless it was written in your terms. Have you called up Tivo yet to find out if they will honor those prices? I have yet to read if you have or not from what I can remember, you may have said something and I just missed it.

[sean-of-w]

Originally Posted by ChuckyBox

Wait. If you've been paying $12.95, or the 1-year prepay, you don't have to do anything. You'll just roll over into the $12.95/month automatically. I thought you were on a bundle. My bad.

Where is this stated? It looks from the TiVo pricing page like once my one-year prepay is up, I'm stuck paying $199 for another one, an increase of $43/year.

Originally Posted by ChuckyBox

You feel betrayed because they raised their prices? Did they promise you that they wouldn't?

That's a loaded question: Of course they didn't. But customer loyalty is something that every company strives to grow and maintain; that's the only thing that kept Apple alive during the Bad Years of the late '80s and early '90s. The only thing that can kill customer loyalty is bad business decisions, chief among which is bad customer service. With this decision, TiVo is choosing to alienate its current customer base --- and you can't claim that a company that smart didn't know that would be the outcome. Feelings of betrayal are a natural outcome of alienation.

[Einselen]

Originally Posted by sean-of-w

Where is this stated? It looks from the TiVo pricing page like once my one-year prepay is up, I'm stuck paying $199 for another one, an increase of $43/year.

Pony stated in the FAQ that they will honor (for now) the $12.95/month price as long as your unit was activated before Nov 4th. I don't remember the exact wording he used, but it is in the very first post.

[Gai-jin]

Originally Posted by Einselen

I understand how you feel cheated or suckered however if you buy a 1 yr of service now do you expect after that year is up you will be able to sign up for 3 more years at $12.95/month? (Assume this is your only Tivo and don't plan to get another in the year)

Should Tivo honor the old prices especially for thos in your situation who bought a package to save money and hassle then buying retail and applying the MSD on that box? In good business practice probably. Should you have expected that in one year the price plans would be the same? No not unless it was written in your terms. Have you called up Tivo yet to find out if they will honor those prices? I have yet to read if you have or not from what I can remember, you may have said something and I just missed it.

But it was explained this way here on the forums, when the bundle plans first started. (wasn't that just over a year ago?)

We were told that once our year is up, we could get the msd rate w/ only another 1 year sub, or continue with another 1 year sub at 12.95. And yet, 1 year later, they change the rules. (Before many of the 1 year contracts in question have ended)

[Gai-jin]

Originally Posted by Einselen

Pony stated in the FAQ that they will honor (for now) the $12.95/month price as long as your unit was activated before Nov 4th. I don't remember the exact wording he used, but it is in the very first post.

As worded, this only applied to monthly subs, not to prepay.

[Einselen]

Originally Posted by Gai-jin

As worded, this only applied to monthly subs, not to prepay.

Applies for both

Originally Posted by TivoPony

Q. What if I bought a TiVo under the previous 1 year commitment program (monthly or pre-paid options) before November 4, 2006?
A. Our current practice is to allow these subscribers to continue their service on a month- to-month basis at $12.95 / month. TiVo does, however, reserve the right, at any time, to charge the current applicable monthly fee for a one-year commitment of service, which may be higher.

[rainwater]

Originally Posted by Einselen

Pony stated in the FAQ that they will honor (for now) the $12.95/month price as long as your unit was activated before Nov 4th. I don't remember the exact wording he used, but it is in the very first post.

Pony's statement does not address the prepaid bundles at all. From reading the FAQ, anyone on a bundle is stuck with the new pricing options once the bundle is over.

[Einselen]

Originally Posted by Gai-jin

But it was explained this way here on the forums, when the bundle plans first started. (wasn't that just over a year ago?)

We were told that once our year is up, we could get the msd rate w/ only another 1 year sub, or continue with another 1 year sub at 12.95. And yet, 1 year later, they change the rules. (Before many of the 1 year contracts in question have ended)

Again they wre explaining how that current pricing plan worked. I am sure Tivo did not plan at the time to change or not change the pricing options. I am surprised we don't have a huge conspiracy going on that Tivo knew of the price plan changes and therefore setup the old plans to "trap" people.

Again I wask are we living in a world where we have to say after everything that this is how it works today but it could change tomorrow?

I could call up Circuit City and get a price check on an item. If the price changes tomorrow should I complain that I was told that the item was this price yesterday? Now if I call up and I pick it up in the store a hour later that is different, but after some significant time passes things do change.

[Gai-jin]

No, but if you say -- sign a 1 year contract today, and 1 year from now you'll have these options, then by gollie those options better be available.

[Gai-jin]

Originally Posted by Einselen

Applies for both

Odd, I could swear it wasn't originally worded that way.

[Einselen]

Originally Posted by Gai-jin

No, but if you say -- sign a 1 year contract today, and 1 year from now you'll have these options, then by gollie those options better be available.

I do agree and say Tivo should honor it. Tivo should probably even have a window, maybe 6 months, maybe 9, maybe even a year in which if your subscription ends you can still activate at the old prices (of $12.95/month and/or MSD fo $6.95/month without the 3 yr contract, still though having to commit to 1 yr). If they don't want to do that then do some grandfather clause on the date of activation on the units, I just think a certain from the new pricing would be easier to set and cover everyone (or mostly if they go the 6 or 9 month route) in that special situation. I am not Tivo however so I can't make that happen. It is also still early now so Tivo may have some extra grandfather clause added to the old pricing plans, I mean it worked with the old S1s and worked again during the S3s however I would not hold my breath waiting for it.

[sean-of-w]

Originally Posted by Einselen

Pony stated in the FAQ that they will honor (for now) the $12.95/month price as long as your unit was activated before Nov 4th. I don't remember the exact wording he used, but it is in the very first post.

I've read his post several times, and as yet, TiVo's official position on this matter seems pretty unclear, and possibly less clear with his posting. Even if my costs do stay at $12.95/month, there's two worries: First, I have to deal with (yet another) monthly charge on my (already-too-long) credit card bill; I'd rather just pay the bloody year in advance and have the simpler bills. And second, given that TiVo reserves the right to discontinue or change the monthly pricing at any point in time, there's no guarantee that I won't pay $12.95 in January and $19.95 in February. And $29.95 in March. And $49.95 in April. I no longer trust TiVo to be honest and open about their pricing policies, and that alone is a good reason to start searching for alternatives, much as I'm loathe to do it.

[Einselen]

Originally Posted by sean-of-w

I'd rather just pay the bloody year in advance and have the simpler bills.

If that is the case pay the year in advance and get a new box. Right now the price is $199, but that could change right after this post so don't hold me to it.

Better case is to get a new box and prepay for 3 years which at the time of this post comes out to $8.31/month and then if you want to upgrade transfer the service (again most likely you will have to forfeit rebates, but who knows how those terms will change).

[Einselen]

Originally Posted by sean-of-w

And second, given that TiVo reserves the right to discontinue or change the monthly pricing at any point in time, there's no guarantee that I won't pay $12.95 in January and $19.95 in February. And $29.95 in March. And $49.95 in April.

I believe this is said that come tomorrow Tivo may not honor the $12.95 month to month price. Once you get in it thought you should have it until you change your account or cancel (which technically speaking is a change). I know before that after my cell phone contract was up I would pay month to month at the price I was paying before. Cingular then took over AT&T Wireless (my carrier) and I kept with that still month to month price even though cingular plans were different. I finally upgraded my phone and signed a new contract. I believe the same is here, even saying it is not the case and Tivo can do what you are saying you are paying month to month and can cancel at any time without any penalty.

I would assume the first case is true as Tivo is allowing those with $6.95/month to carry on at that price.

[Gai-jin]

Don't think so, when the price went from 9.95 to 12.95, nobody was grandfathered in.

[Budget_HT]

Here is my simple understanding based on reading this entire thread and having prior awareness of TiVo's support for existing customers.

After completing the initial contract/bundled rate payments and time frame, Tivo products activated before November 4th qualify for the current month-to-month rates of $12.95 for the first unit on the account and $6.95 for additional units on the same account. The first unit on an account can be a lifetime subscription unit and all others still qualify for the MSD price of $6.95 each. These prices are subject to change in the future. As I see it, this is typical TiVo "price protection" for existing loyal customers.

For units activated November 4th and after, I am not clear on what a month-to-month rate would be, if available.

[Einselen]

Originally Posted by Einselen

Tivo should probably even have a window, maybe 6 months, maybe 9, maybe even a year in which if your subscription ends you can still activate at the old prices (of $12.95/month and/or MSD fo $6.95/month without the 3 yr contract, still though having to commit to 1 yr).

Yay for quoting myself! I had another idea that Tivo may want to consider. Maybe Tivo should have a "one time use" of if your Tivo box was activated before Nov 4th 2006 (if they want to do a range of like Nov 4th 2003-Nov 4th 2006 to prevent wasy earlier boxes which don't apply then they could) then one time you can call in and get the box activated at the then monthly rate of the longest committment period (as maybe in a year the longer committment may be 4 years, maybe 2 years) with only 1 year contract. After that one year you will then pay month to month at that same rate. It would be almost like the S1 grandfather clause and be easier then this year after idea I had before, and have less confusion with the monthly rate and the longest committment period.

[bicker]

Originally Posted by ChuckyBox

You feel betrayed because they raised their prices? Did they promise you that they wouldn't?

This is really the crux of the issue, and it relates to the cancer of Entitlement Mentality that has swept the nation. Where the $@&# did people get the idea that they're entitled to dictate what services will be offered to them and at what price? What kind of distortion of reality is this? In the mass-market, the service provider specifies the service offering and the price -- the customer specifies acceptance or not. That's the way it has always been, for everything, products and services.

[bicker]

Originally Posted by sean-of-w

That's a loaded question: Of course they didn't. But customer loyalty is something that every company strives to grow and maintain

You don't want to go there. What do you think "loyalty" means? For business, it means a customer's willingness to pay a premium for your products and services. It doesn't mean a willingness to pay whatever you want to pay. The whole "customer loyalty" thing has been blown apart by the general public's now-maniacal fascination with price over quality. If Company B will give them the same thing for a dime less, the general public will abandon Company A which has been providing them great service for years. If you think that's loyalty, you've got to be smoking something.

With this decision, TiVo is choosing to alienate its current customer base

Doubtful. Rather, TiVo is choosing to charge more. We don't have the research on which they're basing this decision. Everyone is really just guessing, and it seems to me a lot of people are just guessing based on how the price change makes them feel rather than based on any factual evidence of supporting what they're saying.

[bicker]

Originally Posted by Gai-jin

No, but if you say -- sign a 1 year contract today, and 1 year from now you'll have these options, then by gollie those options better be available.

If you have it in writing, then you're golden. If you don't, then blame yourself. I suspect that you didn't get someone to guarantee that the prices you were discussing would not change in the interim. Given that, they have the option to either offer your something better, or have you comply with the regular terms.

[Gai-jin]

Hmm, in writing, say perhaps the quote from TivoStephen which was posted earlier in the thread, which explained exactly that?

[HDTiVo]

Originally Posted by Einselen

Should you have expected that in one year the price plans would be the same?

Should TiVo expect that if they raise prices and/or adversely change contract terms some customers - current and potential - will be annoyed, and some of those will stop patronizing?

[HDTiVo]

Originally Posted by sean-of-w

With this decision, TiVo is choosing to alienate its current customer base --- and you can't claim that a company that smart didn't know that would be the outcome. Feelings of betrayal are a natural outcome of alienation.

That's about right.

[HDTiVo]

Originally Posted by Gai-jin

But it was explained this way here on the forums, when the bundle plans first started. (wasn't that just over a year ago?)

We were told that once our year is up, we could get the msd rate w/ only another 1 year sub, or continue with another 1 year sub at 12.95. And yet, 1 year later, they change the rules. (Before many of the 1 year contracts in question have ended)

It takes more thought than it is worth to figure out these answers.

Then again, I don't have a bundle TiVo, only a retail S3 within 30-day to come up with a "strategy" for. Even that is not really worth thinking about, but as I'm a bit of a hobbyist, I might stick with it.

edit:

P.S. you got an incorrect impression about being promised that prices/terms would not change. That happens alot around here, so don't feel bad, but it is not fair to blame TiVo for that part.

[HDTiVo]

Originally Posted by Einselen

Yay for quoting myself! I had another idea that Tivo may want to consider. Maybe Tivo should have a "one time use" of if your Tivo box was activated before Nov 4th 2006 (if they want to do a range of like Nov 4th 2003-Nov 4th 2006 to prevent wasy earlier boxes which don't apply then they could) then one time you can call in and get the box activated at the then monthly rate of the longest committment period (as maybe in a year the longer committment may be 4 years, maybe 2 years) with only 1 year contract. After that one year you will then pay month to month at that same rate. It would be almost like the S1 grandfather clause and be easier then this year after idea I had before, and have less confusion with the monthly rate and the longest committment period.

Wouldn't it just be simpler if TiVo told you not to buy their hardware anymore?

This is the simplest price plan TiVo has ever offered me. Buying a new box is simply not on the table. Keeping the old boxes "as is" until they are no longer "as is" or wanted is simple. The S3 I can ship back or just say f*ck it and take my chances - the most complex part of the situation.

If TiVo did the above, they could: 1) not lose 10's of $millions, 2) not blow much of the money they have on hand, 3) fire all the marketers and a bunch of other cretins, and 4) just become a software provider.

[HDTiVo]

Originally Posted by bicker

You don't want to go there. What do you think "loyalty" means? For business, it means a customer's willingness to pay a premium for your products and services. It doesn't mean a willingness to pay whatever you want to pay. The whole "customer loyalty" thing has been blown apart by the general public's now-maniacal fascination with price over quality. If Company B will give them the same thing for a dime less, the general public will abandon Company A which has been providing them great service for years. If you think that's loyalty, you've got to be smoking something.

Doubtful. Rather, TiVo is choosing to charge more. We don't have the research on which they're basing this decision. Everyone is really just guessing, and it seems to me a lot of people are just guessing based on how the price change makes them feel rather than based on any factual evidence of supporting what they're saying.

Like you say, you are just blowing smoke.

Like I say, you have no idea what you are talking about.

[RoyK]

Originally Posted by bicker

You don't want to go there. What do you think "loyalty" means? For business, it means a customer's willingness to pay a premium for your products and services. It doesn't mean a willingness to pay whatever you want to pay. The whole "customer loyalty" thing has been blown apart by the general public's now-maniacal fascination with price over quality. If Company B will give them the same thing for a dime less, the general public will abandon Company A which has been providing them great service for years. If you think that's loyalty, you've got to be smoking something.

Its called competition. Makes the world go 'round.

Originally Posted by bicker

Doubtful. Rather, TiVo is choosing to charge more. We don't have the research on which they're basing this decision. Everyone is really just guessing, and it seems to me a lot of people are just guessing based on how the price change makes them feel rather than based on any factual evidence of supporting what they're saying.

Who gives a flip WHY they're raising the prices? Doesn't matter. Only time will show whether this is a good decision on TiVo's part or it isn't.

[rainwater]

Originally Posted by HDTiVo

P.S. you got an incorrect impression about being promised that prices/terms would not change. That happens alot around here, so don't feel bad, but it is not fair to blame TiVo for that part.

Even when TiVo CS told me personally?

[RoyK]

Originally Posted by rainwater

Even when TiVo CS told me personally?

Rain you should have been suspicious right then and there given CS's record of getting things wrong or just plain ignorance of the facts.