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Old 10-19-2006, 01:17 PM   #1
roundsjr
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Charged for outlets PER cable card?

Is anyone else out there getting charged for "additional outlets" for each cable card they have??? My cable company gave me 4 cable cards. Even though it's only TWO outlets being used, they are charging me for FOUR !! Anyone else? What a rip!
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Old 10-19-2006, 01:26 PM   #2
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Yes, it seems the charges vary greatly for different cable companies and even among different markets of the same cable company.

I'm with Cox, Orange County, CA. I decided to keep the cable co. DVR for now so I'm getting charged for 2 "additional outlets" and 2 cablecard fees. Since the "additional outlet" fee is only $1.59 I didn't want to make a stink about it right now. At some point soon I will be returning the cable co. DVR at which point I may try to convince them there will be only 1 digital outlet in which case I should not get charged for any additional outlet fees at that point.

I think most cable co. billing structures are currently based on the assumption that CableCards go into individual TV slots and hence it made sense to charge an outlet fee per Cablecard. With some reasoning with a CSR you may be able to convince them that the S3 is a single device taking only 1 outlet and hence only subject to at most 1 additional outlet fee.
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Old 10-19-2006, 01:27 PM   #3
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Some people have been able to convince the cable company to remove the additional outlet charge for the second CableCARD after explaining how the TiVo works. However otehrs have also tried and been denied.

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Old 10-19-2006, 01:42 PM   #4
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When the multi stream card is out, does anyone think it will solve this problem? Or will they charge more for a multi stream card?

Edit: This assumes that the Series 3 will use multi stream cards soon after the become common.

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Old 10-19-2006, 02:09 PM   #5
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Comcast says they are going to charge me $6.99 per month, PER card.
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Old 10-19-2006, 02:15 PM   #6
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Comcast says they are going to charge me $6.99 per month, PER card.
How much would they be charging you per unit if you were just using a digital cable box?
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Old 10-19-2006, 02:29 PM   #7
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How much would they be charging you per unit if you were just using a digital cable box?
Not sure....they are presently charging me 9.95 for my "DVR Service/HDTV Ready" box (6412), and 5.99 for "Digital Service A/O" (older digital box for my S2 to control), and 1.99 for "addressable Up/Dn Fee", 3.25 for my "channel guide", and 73.99 for my "Digital Silver Package". Kinda adds up fast.

They say when I return the 6412 I'll save 9.95 there, but will still have to pay $6.99 each for the cc's.
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Old 10-19-2006, 02:34 PM   #8
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I'm one of those who failed to convince. Conversation went something like this:

Me: I added two cable cards to my account for one outlet, but am being charged twice.
Them: That's correct. There's a charge for each cable card.
Me: But they are going into the same device. Your charge is supposed to be an *outlet* charge.
Them: Is this for the new Tivo?
Me: Yes.
Them: You have two cards. So you have two charges.
Me: How many outlet charges do you charge for your dual tuner DVR?
Them: One
Me: Then I should only be charged one outlet charge for *my* dual tuner DVR.
Them: But you need two cards for yours. So there are two charges.
Me (giving up, switching gears): Verizon will soon be offering Fios in my area, and you (Comcast) are not price competitive with Verizon. Do you have any price breaks you can offer me that would allow me to stay with Comcast instead of switching?
Them: We can reduce your internet cost to our new 6 month promotional price, saving you $20/mo.
Me: Ok, do that. Thanks, bye.

I'll be switching to Verizon Fios as soon as it's available. I hate Comcast.
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Old 10-19-2006, 03:25 PM   #9
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They made a mistake calling it an "outlet fee", in that they never envisioned dual tuner/cablecard devices that plug into one coax outlet. The reality is the fee is (and should be called, to avoid confusion), a device access fee, as you probably have to pay to have each cablecard authorised to access the cable network.

As for multistream cards, there will only be one device access fee, as there is only one device to authorise.
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Old 10-19-2006, 03:44 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by classicsat
They made a mistake calling it an "outlet fee", in that they never envisioned dual tuner/cablecard devices that plug into one coax outlet. The reality is the fee is (and should be called, to avoid confusion), a device access fee, as you probably have to pay to have each cablecard authorised to access the cable network.

As for multistream cards, there will only be one device access fee, as there is only one device to authorise.
Fine. Then they should be charging twice for their own DVR, as it has two "devices" (i.e. tuners) accessing the system. I'm moving to Vegas in January and will get an S3 then. If Cox attempts to charge me twice for my S3 I will explain to them that it is one device just like the Cox DVR is one device. If they decline to accept that arguement I will inform the FCC, the local franchise authority, and my new congressional and senate reps. If I'm feeling particularly nasty I will also file an antitrust complaint with the Department of Justice.

The other solution is for the cable companies to get off their collective asses and get the multistream cards in so we can use those instead. It'll make for an easier install and prevent this confusion.
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Old 10-19-2006, 04:20 PM   #11
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You should consider yourselves lucky that you are only being charged an outlet charge. We have to pay $3.10 for each cable card, then the outlet charge to the second card $8.00, then (This is the best one ) we have to buy the HD entertainment package for EACH cable card or set top box at $6.95 a pop.

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Old 10-19-2006, 05:16 PM   #12
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My cable company (Patriot Media - a small 31 town company in NJ) is charging me a $1 rental fee, a $2 additional outlet fee, and a $2 charge for HD Plus tier (non-OTA, non-Premium - INHD, HDNET, TNTHD, etc.) for each card. So two cable cards costs $10 total, which isn't all that bad compared to some of you, but the two outlet charges for one device does bother me.

It doesn't even pay for me to return my HD cablebox, because one box is free with the digital packages.
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Old 10-19-2006, 05:34 PM   #13
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I'm sure glad I don't deal with crap like this with DIRECTV.
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Old 10-19-2006, 05:39 PM   #14
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I'm sure glad I don't deal with crap like this with DIRECTV.
Yea. The HR20 is so much less sucky for DirecTV customers.

I have come to the point in my life that I believe every company is out to screw me. My only choice is which company I think will screw me the least. Or at least one that will buy my dinner before they screw me. That would be OK too.
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Old 10-19-2006, 05:47 PM   #15
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I'm sure glad I don't deal with crap like this with DIRECTV.
Hope you are enjoying your HDLite...
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Old 10-19-2006, 09:01 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by classicsat
They made a mistake calling it an "outlet fee", in that they never envisioned dual tuner/cablecard devices that plug into one coax outlet. The reality is the fee is (and should be called, to avoid confusion), a device access fee, as you probably have to pay to have each cablecard authorised to access the cable network.

As for multistream cards, there will only be one device access fee, as there is only one device to authorise.
someone else might already have posted this but i believe the wording is the FCC's and that's where it came from .
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Old 10-19-2006, 09:03 PM   #17
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My cable company (Patriot Media - a small 31 town company in NJ) is charging me a $1 rental fee, a $2 additional outlet fee, and a $2 charge for HD Plus tier (non-OTA, non-Premium - INHD, HDNET, TNTHD, etc.) for each card. So two cable cards costs $10 total, which isn't all that bad compared to some of you, but the two outlet charges for one device does bother me.

It doesn't even pay for me to return my HD cablebox, because one box is free with the digital packages.

you;ll save the $2 outlet fee on the HD box. And I'm told that they will "deduct a percentage or somethign" for giving the box back. I handed back my SD box tueday- I'll let you know what next months bill really says-LOL
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Old 10-19-2006, 09:06 PM   #18
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I'm sure glad I don't deal with crap like this with DIRECTV.
it's very similar actually-

how much do you pay for an extra reciver again?

It's cheaper for sure- but they get you for "mirror" fees? Looks like cable picked up a nasty habit from DBS for once- usually it's the other way around.
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Old 10-19-2006, 09:08 PM   #19
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you;ll save the $2 outlet fee on the HD box. And I'm told that they will "deduct a percentage or somethign" for giving the box back. I handed back my SD box tueday- I'll let you know what next months bill really says-LOL
The HD box is controlled by my Pioneer TiVo, so it isn't going back anyway.

After they added the cablecards, they also added a $9.95 PVR fee to the HD box. I had to call them and tell them to remove the fee as I never use the PVR in their box and I won't pay for it. Definitely go over your bill carefully when you get it.
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Old 10-19-2006, 09:37 PM   #20
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foujnd it- the FCC calls it "addtional connection charges"

47cfr76.923
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2...7cfr76.923.htm

that regulation basically says they need to charge a price based upon what it really costs them. It is not supposed to be a profit center.

But it's all kinds of FCC speak so it's not so crystal clear.

It could be that the costs for an addtional outlet are the splitter and 30 foot of wiring to get there and then prorate that over 10 years. But some how I think that's not what they are talking about since it would come out to like 10 cents an outlet. it references another reg about how they are supposed to do their accounting, and without diggin into that I'd bet that they are allowed to charge for a fraction of thier head end equipment on the additonal outlets.

I guess they could make the argument that since the head end must keep 2 cards in it's database and send out 2 sets of signals that 2 fees are in order. And that their own DVR's only get one auth signal so that's how they charge for 1. If that's the case then Tivo needs to get the ball rolling on the M-card certification so we can all demand m-cards and be done with this.

Inetersting is that the reg in the link above also says they can charge to recoup any additonal programmign charges per outlet. So I am guessing the HD content contracts are per outlet and not per household like analog rates. So that might explain why there are HD 'mirriring fees' beeing charged also.
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Old 10-19-2006, 09:46 PM   #21
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The HD box is controlled by my Pioneer TiVo, so it isn't going back anyway.

After they added the cablecards, they also added a $9.95 PVR fee to the HD box. I had to call them and tell them to remove the fee as I never use the PVR in their box and I won't pay for it. Definitely go over your bill carefully when you get it.
so funny about the PVR fee. Seems they have just one "advanced box" that does HD or DVR (hd or SD). When I got installed last month i specifically told them no DVR as I too was hooking the HD box to an S2. The guy gave me the one box- and i noticed it had DVR features- i played for 10 minutes but it was so bad i threw the remote in a drawer and let tivo handle it all. But my first bill and all the paperwork just said HDconverter. I figured it they could turn the DVR function on and off with a hit and they must have.

Then i get my next bill and they started callign it an HDPVR and charging me the PVR fee (6.95 for me) the same day they installed my cablecards in the S3. Probably whoever "hit" my cards so the seriel number on my account was a pvr and changed it.

So I call to complain and the guy tells me it happens all the time since they look alike and the installers might also run out of non-pvr so they give you pvr. They dont stock plain HD boxes at the office so they actually had to send a guy out tuesday to take away the HD PVR and hand me an HD only box- he said the only differnce was this one had no drive and from the menu's he might be right it's really similar. I gave back my SD box at the time too- I realized that one s2 with access to digital channels was fine becasue of MRV- so i just put the cable directly into my pioneer s2 DVD. (more realiable channel changes i figure plus at least 2 bucks off a month for one less 'addtional connection" fee.)
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Old 10-19-2006, 10:31 PM   #22
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Comcast should be charging you zero for the CC's. I'm paying nothing - no monthly fee for the card, no outlet fee.
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Old 10-19-2006, 10:33 PM   #23
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Comcast was doing this to me, and I was going to argue vociferously about it, when Comcast around here decided to charge $1-50 for the second card, no exra outlet. I had to talk to customer service, and point out they printed this policy on their bill to get them to change it.
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Old 10-19-2006, 10:48 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by moyekj
Yes, it seems the charges vary greatly for different cable companies and even among different markets of the same cable company.

I'm with Cox, Orange County, CA. I decided to keep the cable co. DVR for now so I'm getting charged for 2 "additional outlets" and 2 cablecard fees. Since the "additional outlet" fee is only $1.59 I didn't want to make a stink about it right now. At some point soon I will be returning the cable co. DVR at which point I may try to convince them there will be only 1 digital outlet in which case I should not get charged for any additional outlet fees at that point.

I think most cable co. billing structures are currently based on the assumption that CableCards go into individual TV slots and hence it made sense to charge an outlet fee per Cablecard. With some reasoning with a CSR you may be able to convince them that the S3 is a single device taking only 1 outlet and hence only subject to at most 1 additional outlet fee.
I'm with Cox in OC too. I'm getting charged $2 or so for a cablecard, $5 or so for digital box rental, and $15 or so for 2 digital subscriptions. I hadn't realized I was getting 2 digital charges.
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Old 10-19-2006, 10:56 PM   #25
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Hope you are enjoying your HDLite...
There's nothing wrong with the HDTV quality I'm receiving from DIRECTV I don't know what all this HDLite crap is about.


Hope you are enjoying having paid $800 for a Series3 and having to pay $12.95/month to TiVo just to use it.
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Old 10-19-2006, 10:58 PM   #26
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Hello.

I just spoke to Time Warner Cable (West LA) since I am looking to buy a Tivo HD and its going to $1.75 for the first Cable card and $4.50 for the 2nd to fill my future Tivo.

about $6.

FYI.
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Old 10-19-2006, 11:00 PM   #27
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Yea. The HR20 is so much less sucky for DirecTV customers.

I have come to the point in my life that I believe every company is out to screw me. My only choice is which company I think will screw me the least. Or at least one that will buy my dinner before they screw me. That would be OK too.
Yea. I don't have any problems. It was nice not having to schedule an appointment for some cabletv tech. to come out and argue with me about cablecards. I bought the stuff, installed it on my own, and am enjoying it.
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Old 10-19-2006, 11:04 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Stanley Rohner
There's nothing wrong with the HDTV quality I'm receiving from DIRECTV I don't know what all this HDLite crap is about.


Hope you are enjoying having paid $800 for a Series3 and having to pay $12.95/month to TiVo just to use it.
Then you either have a crappy 720p HDTV, or bad eyes, or are sitting too far away, or simply don't care about the HD quality.

They reduce their HD by about 30%. And it visibly much worse than full HD.

Right now, and for a couple more weeks, I have Comcast and DirecTV. Flipping back and forth on the same 1080p TV makes it sooo clear the quality difference. Even my wife can see it, and she doesn't care about this stuff.

And yes, I'm very much enjoying it, thank you. And it's $6.95/month (I already had a S2), which is all of $1.95 more than I was paying DirecTV for the box.

If you care about HD quality and can afford it, there's really no other place to go but cable, and ideally FiOS when it's available.

Oh yeah, and I'm enjoying the twice as many HD channels, way more premium channels, more regular cable channels, and all for about $30 less per month. And the analog and digital SD channels all look better than the DirecTV SD equivelents (for the 75% or so DirecTV even has available). It's not even a contest.

And real Tivo software updated by Tivo, not waiting for DirecTV.
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Old 10-19-2006, 11:05 PM   #29
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I've got 2 CableCARDS from Charter (Burbank, CA) and I'm paying $1.50 total. Might be an error, we'll see what it is next month--but so far I'm thinking it's nice to get a break going my way for a change.
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Old 10-19-2006, 11:09 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by MichaelK
it's very similar actually-

how much do you pay for an extra reciver again?

It's cheaper for sure- but they get you for "mirror" fees? Looks like cable picked up a nasty habit from DBS for once- usually it's the other way around.

They don't get you for "mirror" fees.
I pay an extra $4.99/month for having an additional receiver, and about $4.99/month for the DVR charges. That's still about $3 less per month than the $12.95/month TiVo charges. If you throw the 3-10 bucks or whatever the cable company will charge you for each cablecard rental I think the Series3 is still costing you more to use every month.
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