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Old 11-06-2014, 06:33 AM   #1
bearbig
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Cheesed off at DTV

Well I got my THR 22 connected and do like it.
Except that the instructions dealing with the on demand feature is wrong.
It says connect the unit to your network and use a HDMI connection to the TV.. Not so much!!
Called DTV who said I need a $100 cinema connection kit, and a $49 tech visit!! Rold them to pound sand. Guess I'll get the on demand fearue through Amazon and my off air TIVO which is also networked.

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Old 11-06-2014, 09:12 AM   #2
TonyTheTiger
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The CCK would not help as the THR22 will not work with On-Demand anyway!

The kit works with the D* DVRs and the Genie only. A few people are saying that they are getting spotty results with On-Demand at best.

Anyway, the CCK is available for free and doesn't require a technician to install. You would have to play CSR roulette to get one who will offer it to you for free (depending on your history with D*, of course).

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Old 11-06-2014, 11:19 AM   #3
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I assume that you have the THR22 connected to your home network through Ethernet. That should work fine for getting network access. But as Tony says, On Demand simply doesn't work on the THR22, CCK or no. DirecTV will tell you that you need a CCK as they don't officially support direct Ethernet connections, but it works.

You CAN use a CCK for getting wireless access to a THR22 (I do) but you can't configure it using a THR22 so if that's the only box you have, a CCK is not much use.

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Old 11-07-2014, 06:53 AM   #4
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Thanks.
What am I missing by not having on demand thru my THR 22?
Do I get equivalent services with my OTR Tivo which is also networked. I can download content from Amazon, netflix and you tube.

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Old 11-07-2014, 09:22 AM   #5
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Not much in my opinion, though there are a lot of old episodes of shows you can get.

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Old 11-08-2014, 09:32 AM   #6
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The "CCK" is nothing more than a MOCA bridge, using the lower frequency that DirecTV uses. It actually comes in two flavors: the CCK which bridges Ethernet and coax, and the WCCK which can also bridge coax to wireless. It is required to provide Internet access to DirecTV devices when using DECA (DirecTV's name for their flavor of MOCA).

So, with a THR-22 (which, IIRC, doesn't support DECA natively) it would be totally useless. Simply plugging an ethernet cable into the port on the DVR and attaching it to your network will accomplish the same result.

VOD and PPV are supposed to work on the THR-22 but they do not, and DirecTV is not interested in fixing it. The THR-22 only exists because it was a part of the deal with TiVo to renew their licensing arrangement. DirecTV does the bare minimum to support these boxes and pushes subscribers to their Genie DVR when they call to complain. You have to REALLY want both DirecTV and TiVo to put up with the THR-22.

That's a shame, because a Genie running TiVo software 20.4.5 (IOW a DirecTV version of the Roamio Plus) would be a real winner.

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Old 11-08-2014, 10:17 AM   #7
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To say VOD does not work in not 100% true. It's very finicky for sure

It works fine on my recorder, but it is extremely sensitive to the network condition. (MTU size, error conditions on the link, etc.)

e.g. If you temporarily disconnect the network cable for example, it will not work again until you reboot the machine.

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Old 11-08-2014, 12:21 PM   #8
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Why is D* so afraid to port the TiVo GUI to their Gene box?
It can't be that they think that they would loose customers.

I think that they would see a huge amount of subscribers change over to the Gene with the TiVo GUI.

I am not sure, but guessing that after TiVo generates the TiVo port for the Gene box, it could be downloaded to the DVR like any other software upgrade.
The subscriber could just goes on line, input their box ID and request the TiVo GUI and it would be downloaded.
All the sub would have to do is reboot the Gene, and they would have the new GUI.

If D* doesn't want to pay the per box fee, and that is keeping them from porting the TiVo GUI, I wouldn't mind paying it.
I'm guessing that D* just doesn't want to admit that their GUI is not as popular as the TiVo GUI.
Look at D* commercials, they are touting the fact that they have a DVR with TiVo!!
They " Talk the Talk, so why doesn't D* "Walk the Walk"!

The Commercial Touting the TiVo DVR is just a ploy to get the potential customer to call in, then the rep talks them into getting the Gene.
This is called "Bait and Switch"!

D*, Port the Gene with the TiVo GUI, and see your Sub base expand.

Why don't you do a survey of your sub's with your GUI and see how many would upgrade to the TiVo GUI.
Would you be afraid to find out how many would jump at the chance to switch to the TiVo GUI?

Perhaps this forum could do a poll on how many Gene Sub's wouldn't mind paying the fee to switch to the TiVo GUI for the Gene like the current owners of the THR22 are paying now.

Why is D* so stubborn about not wanting the TiVo GUI in their top end box.
They wouldn't loose $$ over it, in fact they might just pick up more subs buy changing over.
It can't be that they think that it wouldn't be good for the corporation.

All I can think of is the bias of a few corporation executives that don't like TiVo.

If they think that it is a problem of hackers, show me one thread that they talk about the THR22 being hacked.
No one has been able to hack the hard drive to copy it to a larger drive and keep their recorded movies.

With expanding technology, the next DVR could have an embedded sold state hard drive on the main board, that would be the end of any chance of hacking the DVR.
Just hope when that happens it would be a minimum of a 1TB drive.

Well, will get off of my soap box now.
I hope that I gave D* something to think about.
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Last edited by BOBCAT; 11-08-2014 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 11-09-2014, 09:09 AM   #9
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Simple answer, IMO. They don't need to port it over!

Think about it. Would you want to have to share revenue with someone else if you had something perfectly capable (and some would say, superior!).

I think the THR22 was a way of meeting obligations, at least on the part of TiVo. Yes, the D* interface was lousy for the longest time, but it developed into something that is really quite good.

TiVo's business model is based on equipment and software sales to cable and OTA customers. When I worked for a cable company and we supplied the TiVo Premier to customers (alongside our own DVR and for the same rental price), the monthly charge was only $13.95 to the customer, of which the company managing the TiVo got, IIRC, $4.43. That covered the cost of the machine as well as the subscription. So imagine how small the margins are on the THR!

It's simply not worth it to them to invest programmers' time to reinvent the wheel.

(BTW, it's LOSE, not LOOSE!)

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Old 11-09-2014, 09:36 AM   #10
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?????? PPV will not work?
Have yet to try. I would think very strongly of dumping my THR22 if true.

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Old 11-09-2014, 10:25 AM   #11
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As Sheffield Steve points out, it is possible to watch a VOD through the THR-22, but it is the exception rather than the rule. When you add in the lack of multi-room viewing, no support for mobile devices, and the overall age of the TiVo UI that was ported, you have to really want to have both TiVo and DirecTV to accept the THR-22. If you want DirecTV, the better option is the Genie or the HR-24. If you want TiVo go with Cable (or FiOS if available).

I don't think anyone can, in good conscience, recommend the THR-22 to a new user...it is just too limited a device.

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Old 11-09-2014, 11:18 AM   #12
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PPV does work, as best as I can tell. It's anything that requires an Internet download that doesn't work.

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Old 11-09-2014, 11:51 AM   #13
bearbig
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We do like the TIVO gui. We had an earlier model of DTV TIVO, so much that we purchased a series 3 (?) HD TIVO for our otr channels. Using our antenna for OTR as we get lots more stations than DTV provides. We can get stations from Montreal!
So far we like our THR22 even though it's not "state of the art".

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Old 11-09-2014, 12:29 PM   #14
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If only D* didn't cripple the THR22 by not enabling the whole home feature.
If they would enable the firmware to work with that feature, I would add the Gene to my stable of THR22's.
They should have put a diagonal bar through the D* Cyclone logo on the front of the box, as that is the way they treat it.
Too Bad...

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Old 11-12-2014, 04:26 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyTheTiger View Post
Simple answer, IMO. They don't need to port it over!

Think about it. Would you want to have to share revenue with someone else if you had something perfectly capable (and some would say, superior!).

I think the THR22 was a way of meeting obligations, at least on the part of TiVo. Yes, the D* interface was lousy for the longest time, but it developed into something that is really quite good.

TiVo's business model is based on equipment and software sales to cable and OTA customers. When I worked for a cable company and we supplied the TiVo Premier to customers (alongside our own DVR and for the same rental price), the monthly charge was only $13.95 to the customer, of which the company managing the TiVo got, IIRC, $4.43. That covered the cost of the machine as well as the subscription. So imagine how small the margins are on the THR!

It's simply not worth it to them to invest programmers' time to reinvent the wheel.

(BTW, it's LOSE, not LOOSE!)
Yeah, and TiVo requires the cost of promotion and lots of other costs to be saddled on the provider NOT TiVo. This is why just about NO ONE wants to partner with TiVo: Alviso wants too much money for the pleasure! It was stipulated in the contract with DirecTV that TiVo could not sue for patent infringement, and now DircTV does just barley enough to avoid a breach of contract regarding its obligations (costs).

Comcast was a complete joke and big stall here and there and "Oh, I guess we'll add VOD support, now" to make it look like Comcast really wanted to partner with TiVo, but still not truly partnering with TiVo, and I think Comcast did partner just to avoid being sued as Tom Rogers had stated that anyone (MVPD) who was not interested in "talking to us" was going to get sued for patent infringement, and later that included those who did talk but said "no thanks, TiVo." Really, did all those companies TiVo sued really steal TiVo's patened technology? If they did, then one has to suppose that Comcast and RCN, and DirecTV, and the few other small fries who partnered with TiVo also stole TiVo tech. According to TiVo everyone who chose not to ink a deal with TiVo is guilty of stealing their technology.

But back to the point of the big partners never having sincere intentions regarding their partnering with TiVo. It's too bad because those partners really need some TiVo tech. Although, you are correct in saying that DirecTV had an ick EPG, and I'll ad that those in-house boxes were so bad DirecTV had to buy Replay TV for its patent portfolio to something with the ugly pigs they had and get some new features, and they did improve on it, but it still is no where near as fine looking as Dish's EPG with big clear logos. I expected more from DirecTV's HD EPG. They aren't as innovative as they used to be either, but both the Genie and Hopper products are at least equal or even superior to the latest TiVo's, so DirecTV they did make the far more economical choice that worked out well for them.

If TiVo did not require such many and high costs for its partners, we could have seen TiVo as an option, perhaps a premium one, but an option nonetheless at just about every MVPD, and then everyone could have their choice of, in the case of the MSO's, a greatly superior TiVo DVR.

It really doesn't matter much anymore and Tom Rogers is busy planning if not executing is "exit strategy" for TiVo come the day the patents die. Too bad the innovative founders of TiVo did not remain.


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Old 11-26-2014, 06:51 AM   #16
bearbig
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Update well it'strue rhat I can't search on demand using my THR22, but I can download movies! For the H**l of it I scheduled a movie that I found using "find programs" that was an on demand movie and I got it!

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Old 11-27-2014, 11:25 AM   #17
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That means there are at least two of us that can download content!

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Old 11-28-2014, 09:13 AM   #18
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would be nice for DTV to admit that with out the song and dance about needing the CCK! Would like to be able to browse foe movies!

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Old 01-14-2015, 06:55 AM   #19
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Update.
The last call I made to DTV regarding this issue said it may be a router setting. Wifey ( tech expert) went through router with a fine tooth comb and found everything in order. She could ping the TIVO from her laptop, and I can schedule recordings from my work desktop. This leads me to believe the TIVO can talk to DTV.
I'm wondering if my problem stems from the fact that I can't "see" the HD satellite(s) from my house. My account is for SD only, but the Ethernet content does not depend on the satellite, and the fact that I was able to download one movie.
Thanks
Bear

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Old 01-15-2015, 01:30 PM   #20
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One of the issues that I found that was preventing this from working was that the Ethernet packets were being fragmented by the router and that caused the connect to fail and drop packets.

The way to you to fix this (or your wife) is in the router DHCP settings, you need to set the MTU to a number under 1500 (start with 1436). What this does it to tell the TiVo to make the Ethernet packets 1436 byes long. These smaller packets are able to get to TiVo with being "fragmented" (i.e. Spilt into two)

Unfortunately setting the MTU for DHCP connections is not obvious, you actually have to add an option via a number. In this case it is option 26. So in the DHCP settings, add option 26 and give a value of 1436. Then you will have to reboot the TiVo at that point

Hope this makes sense!

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