Another TiVo to be released in January?

dtobey · 10-05-2006, 04:52 PM

Okay, I wasn't sure what thread to file this under because it falls under Series 3 and cablecards, etc. etc. I apologize if this has been addressed, but due to the complexity of this question, I didn't find this exact issue listed.

Anyhow, I was just told by Comcast that there is a new TiVo coming out in a few months(he actually mentioned January at one point) that will support a new version of cablecards that will support cable company features, like Comcast's On Demand.

Sooooooo.... I guess the Series 3 units don't support Comcast On Demand because the cable card doesn't support "two-way" communications, which is required for interactivity with the cable provider.

Okay, I'll accept that explanation.

HOWEVER, it gets complex when you add to the mix that I'm a current Series 2 owner with a lifetime subscription. I plan to upgrade to Series 3 and transfer my lifetime membership to the new unit... .but this offer expires at the end of the year. See where I'm going with this? They get people to buy the current model before the end of the year, then they introduce the newer more compelling model a few weeks later???? But I would want the newer model and the lifetime subscription. What gives?

Okay, so the conversation went like this. I asked about cablecards and the new Tivo Series 3. (I've been doing my reading, so I know a little about the situation). The first thing he did was try to tell me about the digital cable boxes they offer, including their DVR, and the corresponding prices. So I asked him about the cablecards and he said, and I quote, "the Tivo box does not work with the cable cards we offer". I asked him to repeat it so I could write it down. He changed his story. He said that the current model out there on the market doesn't support the cablecards. I said it does. He said, well, there is a Tivo model coming out in a few months that supports new cablecards, and that Comcast was working with Tivo, and that they would be available at Best Buy. He mentioned Best Buy so much in this conversation, I think he must be working for them. And the new Tivo, "not yet in the market" would be out in January and would support cable company offerings such as on demand, and the current one doesn't do that. It would also allow you to record three channels while watching a fourth!

So, I called Tivo, and they said they didn't know anything about it. I didn't expect any other answer, but I just wanted to check.

So, now I'm confused about what to do.

I apologize if it's already been covered, but I couldn't find this specific issue, so I had to type it all out while it was fresh in my mind.

Does anyone know about this? If so, I'd love to see the thread about this issue.

s2kdave · 10-05-2006, 04:56 PM

I'm sure that guy is just talking about the Series3 that is currently out, but he didn't know it was out yet.

David

SullyND · 10-05-2006, 04:57 PM

TiVo has a deal with Comcast which will allow them to download the TiVo OS to their existing Motorola DVRs. It is anticipated that it will be released in early 2007 and support cable features such as VOD and PPV. The Rep was likely confusing it with the S3.

davecramer74 · 10-05-2006, 05:01 PM

ya they are talking about comcast new recievers. They will have tivo on them. My understanding is that current recievers will be updated as well. The cable cards he is referring to is the new ones coming out, which like you said are 2 way. My understanding is that the series3 wont support them. Comcast does not have to provide them access to their proprietary stuff, aka VOD, PPV and interactive guide. All they have to do is provide programming capabilities. My guess would be, comcast will keep it that way so people use their DVR's and not competitors for the simple fact that they can say "with ours you can get this" "with theirs you can not". you'd have to ask one of the tivo junkies here to get a more factual answer. Im just going by what i would do if i was comcast. Obviuosly, they need to keep some kind of advantage i would think.

davecramer74 · 10-05-2006, 05:17 PM

ya i just called comcast, they told me their new tivo recievers will be out right around january. Give or take a couple weeks. From the arcticle i just read, looks like its just a software upgrade for the current recievers not an actual new reciever. My guess is you'd pay 12.99 or something a month instead of the 9.99 for their current offerings. or whatever tivo charges.

bkdtv · 10-05-2006, 06:00 PM

Comcast isn't releasing new Tivo DVRs, they are releasing the Tivo software upgrade for their existing DVRs. The Tivo software upgrade is expected to cost an extra $3/mo to $5/mo premium.

The DVRs will still be limited to 120-160Gb of storage for 12-20 hours of HDTV recording capacity.

geekmedic · 10-05-2006, 06:10 PM

What features are available on the Comcast DVR? Dual-tuning/recording, etc.?

In other words, I'm curious what to tell my friends when they ask why I have a Series 3 and not a Comcast DVR with TiVo software. Of course, I'm just a die hard TiVo fan, but I gotta give them some real reasons!

shady · 10-05-2006, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geekmedic

What features are available on the Comcast DVR? Dual-tuning/recording, etc.?

In other words, I'm curious what to tell my friends when they ask why I have a Series 3 and not a Comcast DVR with TiVo software. Of course, I'm just a die hard TiVo fan, but I gotta give them some real reasons!

Number 1 reason. The Series 3 is available today, the Comcast TiVo software isn't!

Dan203 · 10-05-2006, 07:07 PM

Also, as bkdtv pointed out, the comcast unit is stuck with a 120GB or 160GB hard drive while the TiVo has a 250GB drive out of the box and an eSATA port for future expansion.

Dan

gwsat · 10-05-2006, 09:00 PM

Trying to decide whether to buy any new piece of HT gear immediately or wait for something else to be released is always a close call. Nevertheless, if I were in a Comcast market where they are saying they will be issuing their HD DVRs with TiVo software in January (I am not, alas), I would wait. If the estimates given here that the cost of such boxes will only be an extra 3 to 5 dollars a month and that they will be available in three months, I would not consider paying $800 for an S3 plus a bunch more for TiVo service.

HDTiVo · 10-05-2006, 09:37 PM

January is a little bit aggressive.

Gregor · 10-05-2006, 09:53 PM

Plus as an added benefit if you have a Motorola 6412, it makes a really really nice space heater.

Damn, does that sucker put out some heat! I'm tempted to try making grilled cheese on it.

gastrof · 10-05-2006, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregor

Plus as an added benefit if you have a Motorola 6412, it makes a really really nice space heater.

Damn, does that sucker put out some heat! I'm tempted to try making grilled cheese on it.

You really should start with just toast. Then if it works well, try the cheese.

Stormspace · 10-06-2006, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan203

Also, as bkdtv pointed out, the comcast unit is stuck with a 120GB or 160GB hard drive while the TiVo has a 250GB drive out of the box and an eSATA port for future expansion.

Dan

Ahh ummm. The E-Sata port isn't working and there's no guarantee it ever will, so you can't use that in a comparison. Say the drive is upgradable as that's the truth.

moneytrain8 · 10-06-2006, 08:45 AM

A friend of mine who is a Comcast CSR said that Comcast is in no rush to put out the "TiVo" update because people are already buying the Comcast DVR service as it is.

Hopefully, she's mistaken, because even though I have TiVo and Comcast DVR (HD), I can't STAND the Comcast DVR interface/software. But it's the dilemma of recording "Lost" or "24" in high def (much more fun to watch) or in SD on the TiVo...

davecramer74 · 10-06-2006, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Also, as bkdtv pointed out, the comcast unit is stuck with a 120GB or 160GB hard drive while the TiVo has a 250GB drive out of the box and an eSATA port for future expansion.

ya, but another 100gigs isnt worth 800 bones at this point. At least for me. Ill wait for the s3 to drop down before ill consider moving to it.

Maeglin · 10-06-2006, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormspace

Ahh ummm. The E-Sata port isn't working and there's no guarantee it ever will, so you can't use that in a comparison. Say the drive is upgradable as that's the truth.

Ahh ummm... look again. According to Pony, enabling the eSATA port is apparently part of the November software update.

Stormspace · 10-06-2006, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maeglin

Ahh ummm... look again. According to Pony, enabling the eSATA port is apparently part of the November software update.

Yeah, and Mac support is coming soon too.

I'll believe it when I see it.

In the same thread...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megazone

eSATA is 'future' - no commitment for 'November', I don't know where that came from. They will not give out an date beyond 'future'. It was not included in the launch strictly as a development schedule measure, it wasn't felt to be a critical feature for product launch. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Cable Labs.

Maeglin · 10-06-2006, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormspace

Yeah, and Mac support is coming soon too.

Mac support is there... you just have to look elsewhere for it. You may get held up when TTG arrives (in whatever form it may take) as far as converting the video files, but everything else it seems there is a solution for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormspace

I'll believe it when I see it.

Judging by the rest of the thread, as long as it happens they can take their time... better to get it done right (no problems due to external drive failures, etc.) instead of fast, though if it happens quickly I wont complain

At least it's not CableLabs causing the delay on that issue. Also, compared to support for CC 2.0, the hardware is there.

shady · 10-06-2006, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maeglin

Ahh ummm... look again. According to Pony, enabling the eSATA port is apparently part of the November software update.

ummm. That thread has Pony saying they are waiting for cablelabs approval before they enable the eSATA port. Nothing about November. (I didn't watch the mp4 clip, but I did read Pony's response later in the thread)

ZeoTiVo · 10-06-2006, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moneytrain8

A friend of mine who is a Comcast CSR said that Comcast is in no rush to put out the "TiVo" update because people are already buying the Comcast DVR service as it is.

well all that means is they do not have an immediate gap in their offerings and thus no real revenue loss as a result. means they can stay on their 2007 deployment schedule and if problems come up they have some room to change the schedule. That being said, I am sure the TiVo update will come out somewhere in January, adn then slowly become available in more locations as things progress and no problems crop up.

the Comcast DVR will be able to do VOD and PPV as they can make use of the proprietary setup to employ the DOCIS modem and so forth. If the Comcast DVR does not use cable cards now it will not require cable cards just because of TiVo software.

tough call for a Comcast customer as the TiVo update may not happen for 12 more months where they happen to live, who knows.

ZeoTiVo · 10-06-2006, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shady

ummm. That thread has Pony saying they are waiting for cablelabs approval before they enable the eSATA port. Nothing about November. (I didn't watch the mp4 clip, but I did read Pony's response later in the thread)

yes, that was a change from earlier information we had. no wonder the Cable companies are not excited about using Cable Cards. sheesh.

Dan203 · 10-06-2006, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormspace

Ahh ummm. The E-Sata port isn't working and there's no guarantee it ever will, so you can't use that in a comparison. Say the drive is upgradable as that's the truth.

Since we're comparing a product that's available now to one that's not even released yet, that seems like kind of a hypocritical statement. Personally I'd be willing to bet that the eSATA port on the S3 will be activated before the Comcast TiVo software is released. But either way it's still just speculation.

Dan

stoli412 · 10-06-2006, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo

the Comcast DVR will be able to do VOD and PPV as they can make use of the proprietary setup to employ the DOCIS modem and so forth. If the Comcast DVR does not use cable cards now it will not require cable cards just because of TiVo software.

While this is true, I wonder what will happen if/when the integration ban goes into effect in July. Have Comcast/TiVo taken this into account when developing the TiVo software (i.e. will it run on OCAP/CableCard boxes and still have the VOD and PPV)?

Stormspace · 10-06-2006, 12:01 PM

Any TiVo update on the Comcast boxes are likely not going to have any features currently offered on TiVo boxes outside of basic recording and scheduling, the drive wiull not be upgradable, and all the little things TiVo is "promising" will never be available for certain.

Maeglin · 10-06-2006, 12:07 PM

I'd hardly call what's missing (and isn't guaranteed for November) "little things". If they were that, then half of the complications (and discussions) over their being enabled would not exist.

Dan203 · 10-06-2006, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoli412

While this is true, I wonder what will happen if/when the integration ban goes into effect in July. Have Comcast/TiVo taken this into account when developing the TiVo software (i.e. will it run on OCAP/CableCard boxes and still have the VOD and PPV)?

There are boxes available that use proprietary software but use CableCARDs for authorization. As bkdtv has pointed out to us in the past the integration ban only covers the authorization side of programming. The cable companies are still free to use proprietary hardware and software for everything else, including the bidirectional communication stuff.

Alos there is a comcast engineer over on the main AVS forum who is part of the current TiVo testing and knows a lot about the technical details of the program. And he has said that the TiVo software is not OCAP. So it's only going to run on the proprietary hardware that it was designed for.

Dan

nycgeoff · 10-06-2006, 12:42 PM

In this situation, isn't the OP leaving money on the table by *not* getting the lifetime transfer? It seems to me that the most economically rational choice would be:

1. Get the S3, transfer the lifetime
2. Use the S3 until the comcast/tivo option comes out
3. eBay the S3

It would seem to me that as long as there are no dents/scratches, the OP could recover most of his investment...

Stormspace · 10-06-2006, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maeglin

I'd hardly call what's missing (and isn't guaranteed for November) "little things". If they were that, then half of the complications (and discussions) over their being enabled would not exist.

That was a little bit tongue in cheek.

Still, any comcast implementation will not have all the extras TiVo still hasn't delivered on with the S3.

stoli412 · 10-06-2006, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan203

There are boxes available that use proprietary software but use CableCARDs for authorization. As bkdtv has pointed out to us in the past the integration ban only covers the authorization side of programming. The cable companies are still free to use proprietary hardware and software for everything else, including the bidirectional communication stuff.

Alos there is a comcast engineer over on the main AVS forum who is part of the current TiVo testing and knows a lot about the technical details of the program. And he has said that the TiVo software is not OCAP. So it's only going to run on the proprietary hardware that it was designed for.

Dan

Thanks for explaining that Dan. I should have realized that OCAP and the integration ban are 2 completely separate things. Comcast is quite clever by not making the TiVo software OCAP-compliant: customers who want it still have to rent the box. Then again, it probably would be next to impossible to make the TiVo software OCAP-compliant, so they're just clever by circumstance.