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Old 09-27-2006, 12:30 PM   #31
Bodshal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bierboy
The only way to upgrade the S3 at this point in time is replacing the stock drive. There's no way to add an internal drive (as there is in the S2). And the eSATA port is inactive right now.
Having said that, I'm pondering using one of those external arrays that presents on a single SATA connection and hooking it up to the internal SATA connector of the S3. Just for the hell of it. That would get you more than one drive on the thing, but with a cable hanging out the back.

Chris.
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Old 09-27-2006, 02:16 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB
Better performance with not much cost in heat and noise.

I will upgrade with DD so I wont lose my files.
"Performance" is not really an issue for TiVo. DD or not, you can upgrade drive A only once.
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Old 09-27-2006, 02:29 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c3
"Performance" is not really an issue for TiVo. DD or not, you can upgrade drive A only once.
I am not worried about the performance of the upgrade but of the drives when in operation.

Why can you upgrade the A drive only once?
Why can't you upgrade to a 500 now then do a DD copy later on to
a larger capacity?

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Old 09-27-2006, 02:44 PM   #34
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Performance is not an issue "in operation".

You can have 3 pairs of MFS partitions per drive. Factory drive already has 2 pairs. When you upgrade to 500GB, you add 1 pair, so it's "full".
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Old 09-27-2006, 02:49 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c3
Performance is not an issue "in operation".

You can have 3 pairs of MFS partitions per drive. Factory drive already has 2 pairs. When you upgrade to 500GB, you add 1 pair, so it's "full".
So, if I upgrade with a DD copy followed my a
'mfstool add -x /dev/sda -r 4' I have the larger allocation units.

Now a subsequent DD and MFSTool -r 4 will not expand the existing partitions?

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Old 09-27-2006, 02:56 PM   #36
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There is no existing tool for partition expansion. You can only add partitions.
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Old 09-27-2006, 02:59 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c3
There is no existing tool for partition expansion. You can only add partitions.
OK. So to expand this unit, I will need to lose my programs. Hmmm.

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Old 09-27-2006, 03:43 PM   #38
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This discussion leads neatly into a potential problem down the road. If the eSATA port is enabled and is setup per current TiVo 2nd drives, people who already upgraded the internal drive will hit this problem if they try to add an external drive - they'll need to start from a virgin image, or a backup from before the upgrade.

Moral: Keep the original drive (or its image) intact.

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Old 09-27-2006, 03:59 PM   #39
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We don't know how external drive works yet, but most likely that is independent of the internal drive size. The limitation (so far) is 3 MFS pairs per drive, not per TiVo.
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Old 09-27-2006, 07:24 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c3
Performance is not an issue "in operation".

You can have 3 pairs of MFS partitions per drive. Factory drive already has 2 pairs. When you upgrade to 500GB, you add 1 pair, so it's "full".
Ah ha ... now the messages I saw after mfstool add make sense ...
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Old 09-27-2006, 08:24 PM   #41
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Ok, my upgraded Weaknees S3 (500GB) arrived today. Although Comcast won't arrive with the cards until Monday, I connected it to the internet and downloaded the guide info.

I'll admit I never heard the drive on my S2 Tivo. But, my S3 is a little noisy when processing the the guide info, but overall it's not a deal breaker. If you're right next to the upgraded TIVO, it's perfectly silent, and your S3 is doing something very disk intensive (ie processing guide info) then you'll hear the drive. Otherwise, you won't even notice it.

I'm keeping my upgraded Weaknees S3. I can't wait until Comcast arrives with the cards!
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Old 09-28-2006, 01:46 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodshal
Having said that, I'm pondering using one of those external arrays that presents on a single SATA connection and hooking it up to the internal SATA connector of the S3. Just for the hell of it. That would get you more than one drive on the thing, but with a cable hanging out the back.

Chris.
Chris,

Is there such a thing? I'm thinking of a drive array that I could put 4 750GB HD's in it, and one SATA cable coming off of it to the TiVo. Yes, it would have to be housed outside of the TiVo, and yes, it would make a ton of noise. But, is it possible?

Do these things exist for computers? I looked, and all I could find were arrays that still needed 1 sata cable per drive installed.
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Old 09-28-2006, 02:34 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crabbon
Do these things exist for computers? I looked, and all I could find were arrays that still needed 1 sata cable per drive installed.
http://www.lacie.com/products/range.htm?id=10033

Two Big, Biggest S1S, and Biggest S2S.
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Old 09-28-2006, 10:13 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c3
http://www.lacie.com/products/range.htm?id=10033

Two Big, Biggest S1S, and Biggest S2S.
But I believe those won't work, because you have to add in the PCI-express card, which has multi sata cables, not just one.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 09-28-2006, 10:39 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crabbon
But I believe those won't work, because you have to add in the PCI-express card, which has multi sata cables, not just one.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
I ordered one of these..

Thecus N2050UD
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16822102002

I haven't received it yet, but I believe the pci card is just used in case your PC doesn't have an eSata port on it.

I plan to someday use it with an S3. It would be interesting to see if it could be used to replace the internal drive by running the sata cable out of the box somehow. Is the internal sata connector and an eSata connector compatible?

I'll understand how it works better when it arrives tomorrow.
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Old 09-28-2006, 10:41 PM   #46
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500GB drives reviewed and noise comparisons:

http://techreport.com/reviews/2006q3.../index.x?pg=13
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Old 09-28-2006, 10:42 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crabbon
But I believe those won't work, because you have to add in the PCI-express card, which has multi sata cables, not just one.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
All of the boxes I mentioned have a single SATA cable going to the host. As far as the host is concerned, it's just one big hard drive.
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Old 09-28-2006, 10:46 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_burns
Is the internal sata connector and an eSata connector compatible?
Internal and external SATA connectors are different, so you need an adapter. Don't know if the chip has different electrical settings for different cable lengths.
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Old 09-29-2006, 10:51 AM   #49
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Really good information. I'm out of the loop on hardware for a year, and all these new devices show up

The next question: Is there an internal to external sata converter?
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Old 09-29-2006, 10:56 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crabbon
Really good information. I'm out of the loop on hardware for a year, and all these new devices show up

The next question: Is there an internal to external sata converter?
I did a quick search of the web, and came up with one of these:

http://www.satagear.com/SATA-KB-116_...nal_Cable.html

I know the there may not be a pci external slot on the TivoS3, but if you remove the metal bracket, I wonder if it would work???
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Old 09-29-2006, 09:18 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crabbon
I did a quick search of the web, and came up with one of these:

http://www.satagear.com/SATA-KB-116_...nal_Cable.html

I know the there may not be a pci external slot on the TivoS3, but if you remove the metal bracket, I wonder if it would work???
On the README First pamphlet that came with my new Thecus N2050 it states:

"Do not attach an N2050 to a motherboard through a SATA to eSATA adapter bracket."

Doesn't say why not though, but I'm not sure I want to find out.
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Old 09-29-2006, 09:38 PM   #52
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External SATA is supposed to handle longer cable. Other than that, there is really no difference between the two. Just keep the cable short.
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Old 09-29-2006, 10:32 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joewmaki
Seagate 750GB drive - 5 yr. warranty
WD 500GB drive - 1 yr warranty

Actually i believe WD is 5 years from date of manufacture for RE

WD5000KS comes with 3 years and has AAM enabled from the factory. (hdparm -I reports aam is 128 or "quite" setting)
(I believe the ks is from teh SE class)

Last edited by MichaelK : 09-29-2006 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 09-29-2006, 10:40 PM   #54
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Seagate now has a 750gb hard drive especially for DVR's. It is a different model then the ones sold at BB or CC for computers. Suppose to be alot quieter.

In February Seagate will be releaseing a 1.2TB Hard Sata hard drive.

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Old 09-29-2006, 10:41 PM   #55
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WD: 1 year retail with $15 additional for 3 years, 3 years OEM, 5 years enterprise
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Old 09-29-2006, 10:52 PM   #56
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I just completed an upgrade to a WD5000KS drive. During the DD copy it was clear that the 500 was about 1/2 as loud as the stock 250 drive.


Worked like a charm.

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Old 09-29-2006, 10:57 PM   #57
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DD is just sequential access. There shouldn't be much (if any) seek noise, even for Seagate. You need random access to check/compare the seek noise.
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Old 10-10-2006, 03:00 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c3
All of the [Lacie] boxes I mentioned have a single SATA cable going to the host. As far as the host is concerned, it's just one big hard drive.
c3, the docs on the Two Big and Biggest S2S imply the need for a SATA II port multiplier card such as the one they provide (allows all drives on a single cable). So, it is unlikely to work even with an eSATA to SATA cable adapter to the internal port.

I am starting to wonder now if there is even any multi-drive external RAID systems that don't require SATA II port multiplier functionality. I am now thinking that the only way to get a connection is with a single drive which defeats the value of connecting to the the internal SATA Port.

Anyone thinking of experimenting with an external boot drive system should discuss it with the upper-tier tech support (or at least someone who understands what you are trying to do) at the manufacturer before investing any time or money.
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Old 10-10-2006, 03:04 PM   #59
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c3, the docs on the Two Big and Biggest S2S imply the need for a SATA II port multiplier card such as the one they provide (allows all drives on a single cable).
No, the card simply provides one or two eSATA ports for the PC. The box itself has a single eSATA port.

BTW, there is no device (that I'm aware of) that takes multiple SATA ports from the host and merge them into a single SATA port going out. Such device doesn't really make much sense.
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Last edited by c3 : 10-10-2006 at 03:10 PM.
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Old 10-10-2006, 03:07 PM   #60
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(jlib, para 2, don't you mean .... 'external SATA port"?)

And why is it bad if you could only connect one? Get a large one inside, a large one outside, and you'd be set (assuming the external one is subject to the mfstools' partitiion max-out limitation, of course, seeing as TiVo themselves will write the code for it!)
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