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Old 10-12-2006, 07:09 AM   #151
jacksonian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB
We are all happy for you. However, this information has not caused my S3 to work any better in the credenza below my Panasonic 657UY. My case remains open with TiVo with no response.

- Rich
I wasn't trying to dismiss your problem. I'm just pointing out that this doesn't seem to be a universal issue. And the fact that mine isn't having any problems in a very similar situation might actually HELP you narrow down/troubleshoot your problem. But I'll let you figure it out yourself if you don't want any help. Good luck.
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Old 10-12-2006, 08:05 AM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian
I wasn't trying to dismiss your problem. I'm just pointing out that this doesn't seem to be a universal issue. And the fact that mine isn't having any problems in a very similar situation might actually HELP you narrow down/troubleshoot your problem. But I'll let you figure it out yourself if you don't want any help. Good luck.
Sorry, I did not mean to snipe. I do not think we can conclude anything but a design problem. I have six devices with IR receivers that work properly in the same environment. I have opened it twice added glad wrap and I still get ocassional double entry on numbers and missed remote keystrokes. It is much better, it was unusable as shipped.

I guess we get pissed off at TiVo for not responding in other ways. I think an acknowledgement of some kind like: "we are aware of the problem and working on a solution".

I can handle that issues like this can occur. Customer support is lacking.

BTW, I am a lucky 200. They sent me an email 2 weeks ago that I would be receiving a TiVo bag. Nice touch. Of course, I have not received the bag

- Rich
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Old 10-12-2006, 09:31 AM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian
I still have had zero problems with my S3 sitting on top of my A/V cabinet about 4 inches below my Pioneer 6070 plasma. So I'm unclear about the "design problem". You would think that this would be worst case scenario wouldn't you?

it depends on the backlight used in any one particular brand model of LCD. So I also suspect that the phosphors or coatings or glass(with whatever filtering properties) on any one particular model or brand of plasma matters. If you search the net, it's a widespread but not universal (as you have concluded yourself) problem.
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Old 10-12-2006, 09:42 AM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB
Sorry, I did not mean to snipe. I do not think we can conclude anything but a design problem. I have six devices with IR receivers that work properly in the same environment. I have opened it twice added glad wrap and I still get ocassional double entry on numbers and missed remote keystrokes. It is much better, it was unusable as shipped.

I guess we get pissed off at TiVo for not responding in other ways. I think an acknowledgement of some kind like: "we are aware of the problem and working on a solution".
No sweat. I just wonder if it's your particular S3 unit. It would be nice if you could compare another box, or better yet if we were close by, I could bring mine over and see if your TV gave my S3 problems or if your S3 would work with my TV. Just seems odd that it's not more universal. Seems like if it were your TV that none of your other IR devices would work either.
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Old 10-12-2006, 09:44 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelK
it depends on the backlight used in any one particular brand model of LCD. So I also suspect that the phosphors or coatings or glass(with whatever filtering properties) on any one particular model or brand of plasma matters. If you search the net, it's a widespread but not universal (as you have concluded yourself) problem.
Rich and I both have plasmas, not LCDs, so there are no backlights. And my particualr brand of plasma (Pioneer) even removed one of the glass filters a couple of years back, so I would think mine would be giving off even more interference than Rich's, but I could be very wrong about that.
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Old 10-12-2006, 09:59 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian
Rich and I both have plasmas, not LCDs, so there are no backlights. And my particualr brand of plasma (Pioneer) even removed one of the glass filters a couple of years back, so I would think mine would be giving off even more interference than Rich's, but I could be very wrong about that.

I saw you have a plasma an i know they have no backlight- that's why I said I think there are still variables with those too.

Not knocking anyone's plasma (I can't afford any of them-LOL)- but isn't yours (the pioneer) the big dog on the block? It would not be illogical that pioneer does something on their end with the phosphors or the glass to get rid of the problem so their customers never have to deal with it. If it's a $10 IR blocking coating in the glass then a top of the line company might be adding it but someone that is seleling more of a commodity type high vloume unit might not.

If people want to see- dig up a sony nightshot camcorder. Turn on night shot with the room pitch black, then fire up the TV with a BLACK screen. The whole frigging room will get lit up like fourth of July fireworks if you have a problem. It's very obvious when you see it with your own 2 eyes through the nightshot IR CCD's "eyes".

Apparently some IR receivers filter that IR noise out better than others- so thats why some devices right next to the tivo's work fine. So it could be that some tivo's have a IR pickup with slightly differnt characteristics and might help, but I would guess that in general they part(s) they speced are more susceptable to this type thing. I am no engineer but it sounds like the reciever can eitehr filter the the spectrum to just get the right wavelenght from the remote and ignore the rest or they use electronic filtering to raise thje threshold of what is considered "on"
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Old 10-12-2006, 10:44 AM   #157
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Another basic fix that worked well, at least for me, is to take a small piece of black electrical tape (or any opaque tape - black just looks best) and stick it at the FAR RIGHT of the faceplate, right next to the buttons on front. This brought my success from about 30% with a lot of double hits to 90% with no double hits.

There is no reason this should work since its nowhere near the sensor, but it worked on my moxi and it works on the tivo for some reason.

That said, I just shifted it a bit further back in my cabinet and now it gets about a 90% success rate without any tape. This is with a Panasonic TH-50PX60U plasma. Just an idea for those who don't want to open it up. It may only work in my particular setup.
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Old 10-12-2006, 01:27 PM   #158
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As I mentioned in a previous reply--

You don't have to open the box

Just block a portion, or all of the sensor--start with an external object and if that works, you can get a piece of opaque material to stick on the face plate--

I have a Panasonic plasma and it works for me--nothing else did.
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Old 10-13-2006, 04:00 AM   #159
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Here is a hot new accessory for the Series 3!!!!! And it's expensive too.

http://www.cir.com/parts/electape/electape.htm


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Old 10-13-2006, 06:40 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortspecialbus
Another basic fix that worked well, at least for me, is to take a small piece of black electrical tape (or any opaque tape - black just looks best) and stick it at the FAR RIGHT of the faceplate, right next to the buttons on front. This brought my success from about 30% with a lot of double hits to 90% with no double hits.

There is no reason this should work since its nowhere near the sensor, but it worked on my moxi and it works on the tivo for some reason.
The sensor is located on the far right next to the buttons. Shine a flashlight on it and you will see the circular hole.

- Rich
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Old 10-13-2006, 11:43 AM   #161
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Huh, how about that, eh? heh. I guess I just thought it was in the middle based on TiVo's instructions that I glanced over about setting the remote 1/2 switch about blocking the center of the thing.

Regardless, the fix still works, but now it makes some sense.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB
The sensor is located on the far right next to the buttons. Shine a flashlight on it and you will see the circular hole.

- Rich

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Old 10-13-2006, 12:32 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortspecialbus
Huh, how about that, eh? heh. I guess I just thought it was in the middle based on TiVo's instructions that I glanced over about setting the remote 1/2 switch about blocking the center of the thing.

Regardless, the fix still works, but now it makes some sense.
Yep. These are the things you learn when stuffing Press-N-Seal into your TiVo

- Rich
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Old 10-13-2006, 03:01 PM   #163
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RMA Unit doesn't fix the IR reception issue

Hello, bad news.

I received my RMA yesterday, the new TIVO has a manufactured date of
October 4th. Funny, it has yellow LED's whereas the original one has orange
LED's.

This unit is improved in terms of how often the remote control button
presses are recognized, but it still is unusable without the usual remedies.

I called customer support. They are very very careful in what is being said.
The agent denied that there is a fix available at the factory or in software,
or whether there ever would be one. He said that the engineering team is very
aware of and understands the issue, that it is an interference issue with
Infrared emissions from certain television monitors.

There is a dark cloud over at TIVO, they put me on hold when I asked reasonable
questions, came back with "I can only give you this official response".
They appear to be trying to decide what to acknowledge along with a
policy for customers, definitely very tight lipped. I suspect they are
uncertain whether to issue a recall offer or not. Those without problems
now will certainly be upset if they upgrade to a plasma/LCD monitor that
exhibits the interference. And clearly a simple fix is to use a different
IR sensor, my series2 sensor is immune. I'm guessing they don't want to
get a wave of returns if they can help it which may bite them in the end.

The agent did admit this is a nightmare for them. He started out
stand-offish, but opened up and became sympathetic as the discussion
progressed.
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Old 10-13-2006, 05:03 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelK
Not knocking anyone's plasma (I can't afford any of them-LOL)- but isn't yours (the pioneer) the big dog on the block? It would not be illogical that pioneer does something on their end with the phosphors or the glass to get rid of the problem so their customers never have to deal with it.
Unless it has changed (which is possible), Pioneer uses NEC plasma panels.

I have a Marantz plasma that uses the same NEC panels as its Pioneer Elite counterpart... and I'm experiencing IR problems.

It is possible that Pioneer has a special coating, but I doubt it.

Most likely, it seems that those were are not experiencing problems may be lucky do to either:

1. Environmental conditions (placement, ambient light, ambient interference, etc)
2. Random variation in S3 manufacturing (perhaps some "flaw" actually fixes the problem)
3. Random variation in manufacturing of their own display device
4. Some lucky combination of device settings that happens to allow things to work in light of 1-3

There's just too much randomality going on here.

I think it's a safe bet, however, to say that this is due to a design flaw in the S3.

I, like many others, have a ton of IR devices and the S3 is the only one that is affected.

I think I have around 14 different IR devices in that area... some of them were made as much as 10 years before plasma technology even existed in the consumer arena and they have no problems.
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Old 10-13-2006, 05:28 PM   #165
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There is no question that the flaw is in the sensor--

That the fault is in the S3, not in the plasma or the remote--

That it a problem that Tivo must address--either with a software fix or a hardware fix which might mean a recall from those who want an exchange.

and the sooner Tivo addresses the problem, the better.
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Old 10-13-2006, 06:08 PM   #166
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just to be clear- I'm not saying tivo isn't partly to blame, but clearly there are plenty of plasma's and LCD's out there that emit a bunch more IR than other sets. There wouldnt be the plethora of "plasma proof" Ir repeaders that exist if that werent' the case.

Obviously certain devices are immune even to the excess IR from these sets and I think it's a serious mistake on Tivo's part that they didn't include whatever parts are needed to make the S3 "plasma proof". Paricularly when some press and seal works- they should be able to add a 3 cent plastic "filter" or something to limit the background IR. I'm pretty amazed they never saw it in beta. THey seem to do widespreed beta testing even on new hardware so I dont know how they didn't ecounter at least one "bright" lcd or plasma before this. I guess it's possible they were just very unlucky....
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Old 10-13-2006, 06:10 PM   #167
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Refurbished Units warning

One other thing, I asked for clarification on RMA's after 1 month. TIVO stated
the policy is that an RMA that is issued after one month from date of delivery
will get a refurbished unit. Within one month is a new unit. Regardless
of the situation.

This makes the timeframe for a fix quite critical ... wait too long and get
a refurb, go to early (like me) and don't benefit from a fix.

The curse of the early adopter.
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Old 10-17-2006, 01:08 PM   #168
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here's an interference issue I haven't seen posted yet.

I have a 40" Sony Bravia LCD set and got my Series 3 hooked up last friday. I had absolutely no remote issues (or any issues for that matter) all weekend. Everything worked perfectly.

Then I come home from work yesterday and both my S3 remote and Harmony 880 are completely unresponsive on the S3. both work fine on the S2 in the same room. I get maybe 10% recognition when i aim the remotes directly at the IR sensor just a few feet away. nothing if I lean back.

I call TiVo Support and the guy walks me through the standard questions. I put a piece of yellow notebook paper over the sensor and the remote works fine, so we've determined it is a sensor intereference issue. But I explain that everything was working fine for days until now so it can't be the TV - I haven't made any adjustments or anything to it.

Then he asks me if I have a wireless mouse. And wouldn't you know it, not 10 minutes before I turned on the TV I got a prompt from my Microsoft wireless mouse that the batteries were critically low, but I hadn't changed them yet.

I popped new batteries into the mouse and the S3 responded normally as it had all weekend.

Is that crazy?

Is it possible that the mouse changed it's signal output when the batteries were low in order to maintain a connection and that change affected the S3?

Or do we think it was some other variable I'm unaware of (like the TV warming up) and the wireless mouse was a coincidence/red herring?

Thoughts?
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Old 10-17-2006, 01:15 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naclone
here's an interference issue I haven't seen posted yet.

I have a 40" Sony Bravia LCD set and got my Series 3 hooked up last friday. I had absolutely no remote issues (or any issues for that matter) all weekend. Everything worked perfectly.

Then I come home from work yesterday and both my S3 remote and Harmony 880 are completely unresponsive on the S3. both work fine on the S2 in the same room. I get maybe 10% recognition when i aim the remotes directly at the IR sensor just a few feet away. nothing if I lean back.

I call TiVo Support and the guy walks me through the standard questions. I put a piece of yellow notebook paper over the sensor and the remote works fine, so we've determined it is a sensor intereference issue. But I explain that everything was working fine for days until now so it can't be the TV - I haven't made any adjustments or anything to it.

Then he asks me if I have a wireless mouse. And wouldn't you know it, not 10 minutes before I turned on the TV I got a prompt from my Microsoft wireless mouse that the batteries were critically low, but I hadn't changed them yet.

I popped new batteries into the mouse and the S3 responded normally as it had all weekend.

Is that crazy?

Is it possible that the mouse changed it's signal output when the batteries were low in order to maintain a connection and that change affected the S3?

Or do we think it was some other variable I'm unaware of (like the TV warming up) and the wireless mouse was a coincidence/red herring?

Thoughts?
That's freaky. Never heard of RF interference causing a problem with IR. Is it a laser mouse? With the red led on the bottom?
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Old 10-17-2006, 01:18 PM   #170
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It's a laser mouse but uses bluetooth to communicate with the computer.

this is the model...

http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Opti...769531?ie=UTF8
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Old 10-17-2006, 01:27 PM   #171
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I suppose it's possible that the LED is causing some interference and the difference wasn't the low battery condition but the mouses position.
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Old 10-17-2006, 01:35 PM   #172
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does the bravia have any kind of setting to make the backlight variable based upon ambient lighting?
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Old 10-17-2006, 01:46 PM   #173
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I'm not sure. I think it may. I definitely have the ability to adjust the backlight but i'm not sure if it has an ambient light sensing function. I'll look into when I get home.

suffice to say the ambient light didn't change much if any during the period in question.
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Old 10-17-2006, 01:46 PM   #174
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the led probably started flashing rapidly signaling weak battery, sending more inteference than normal?
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Old 10-17-2006, 01:49 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slocko
the led probably started flashing rapidly signaling weak battery, sending more inteference than normal?
I'm really hoping this was it because I'd hate to have it resurface and have to start trouble shooting from scratch or go through the hassle of replacing the unit or opening it up to glad wrap it.
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Old 10-21-2006, 06:06 PM   #176
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IR Sensor Issue

Has anyone received an RMA that does not exhibit the IR sensor issue? Please post the date of manufacture if you did. DOM's from September 13th (orange LEDs) and October 4th (yellow LEDs) were both problematic for me.
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Old 10-22-2006, 10:17 AM   #177
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I just set up my Series 3, and am having the same IR issues. I also have a Harmony 880 and that has the same TIVO problems as the original remote. My other components work just fine.
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Old 10-22-2006, 11:12 PM   #178
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Is the IR problem with the S3 a Plasma or LCD issue? Also, does turning off any ambient light sensors on the display help?
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Old 10-23-2006, 07:40 AM   #179
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to summerize-

some plasmas and some lcd's cause it.

Seems certain models and/or brands are more likely to trigger the issue with the tivo's. Apparently some s3's are more sensative to IR interference than other components. Some report that their S2's or DVD players etc work fine while the S3 chokes. If I recal at least one person had better results with an exchanged S3. So MIGHT be some S3's are more susceptible than others (but maybe that guy just had a complete bum S3..)

With LCD's turning off ambient light sensors and than manually adjusting the backlight brightness can help in some instances.
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Old 10-23-2006, 02:46 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelK
to summerize-

some plasmas and some lcd's cause it.

Seems certain models and/or brands are more likely to trigger the issue with the tivo's. Apparently some s3's are more sensative to IR interference than other components. Some report that their S2's or DVD players etc work fine while the S3 chokes. If I recal at least one person had better results with an exchanged S3. So MIGHT be some S3's are more susceptible than others (but maybe that guy just had a complete bum S3..)

With LCD's turning off ambient light sensors and than manually adjusting the backlight brightness can help in some instances.
Thanks!
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