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Old 11-13-2011, 11:09 AM   #5461
bobrt6676
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TWC cablecard pricing

Wow, some good news from TWC. I opened my TWC bill to find the cost of my CC's went from 2.50 to 2.00. I dropped my TWC DVR(daughter moved out) and HBO/Showtime and cut 30+ off my bill. Now I have 2-THD's and 1-PremiereXL and NO TWC boxes. YEA!
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Old 11-13-2011, 06:58 PM   #5462
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Update on my FCC complaint. 3 days ago, which is over a month after I filed the complaint, I received written correspondence from the FCC advising me they had received my emailed complaint. Gee, thanks FCC. Our tax dollars at work.
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Old 11-14-2011, 08:54 AM   #5463
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Wrong channel lineup on TWC Charlotte

Sometime last week TWC Charlotte changed Hallmark Channel from 76 to 23. I have been waiting in vain for the Tivos to receive the message about the the change. So my Hallmark channel SP's record only the message that TWC has posted on 76. I have reported this to Tivo but they say it will take 5 to 7 days to respond.
Very unusual. I wonder what is going on and whether future channel lineup changes will cause the same problems.
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Old 11-15-2011, 03:21 AM   #5464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobrt6676
Wow, some good news from TWC. I opened my TWC bill to find the cost of my CC's went from 2.50 to 2.00.
Same here in Austin, effective December 1. Of course the cost of the actual cable service went up by five bucks per month, but that $0.50 drop in the CCard fee was a welcome surprise. You have to wonder if it was in response to a mandate from the FCC or other regulatory body - I find it hard to believe that TW would reduce a charge without being forced to.
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:38 PM   #5465
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My CARDS here in Buffalo, NY also went from $2.50 to $2.00. Whoopdie do.
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Old 11-30-2011, 05:56 PM   #5466
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Just got digital cable and ...

So I just got digital cable and I've got some promo deal for 40 dollars for 12 months. Well I asked about using my Tivo and I was told that using the tivo is a different pricing structure is this legal or did I just get someone who wanted me to stay with their HDTV converter ( I chose not to use their DVR)

in TWC Charlotte.

Thanks.
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Old 11-30-2011, 06:13 PM   #5467
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Probably true.

I was excluded from most bundled deals due to TiVo also.
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:27 AM   #5468
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This reminds me that about a year ago I tried to add a movie tier to my account here near Buffalo NY. It was whatever tier contains IFC. Per an email I got from TWC I coud add the tier for an additional $4.95 per month.

When I called and explained I had CableCARDs the CSR first had to put me on hold for 10 minutes to talk to a supervisor. When she came back she told me that the pricing I saw in the email didn't apply to CC customers and that it would actually cost me an additional $20 per month or something outrageous.

As I recall, the explanation had to do with the fact that CC customers didn't truly get their bundled package and thus were subject to a la carte pricing. Of course every bill I've received from them has "Watch and Surf" as the primary line item... I thought that was a bundle. What a crock.

I should try ordering this additional tier again just to see if things have changed.
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:45 AM   #5469
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I have CableCard and have added Choice/Variety/Movie tiers for $4.95 in the past. I have one tier included (required, actually) with my "Surf n View" package; the extras are $4.95/month.

They usually screw something up when I try to add/remove these tiers... so I don't make too many changes these days.
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Old 12-01-2011, 08:30 AM   #5470
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Shane - I'm in Buffalo also.

While it's true you don't officially qualify for bundles I also looked into adding the tier with IFC last year* and it was no where near $20. I think $7. That's about what I pay for some other tiers too.

Premium Movie Channels also cost the same as with a bundle or CCards.

If you really complain, there are things they can do. I complained about not being eligible for a cheaper Internet due to a bundle so instead they gave me Showtime for free (which I was already paying for) which ended up being the net effect of giving me the discounted Internet rate.

But, at the end of the day, you WILL pay more than bundled folks. It sucks.

Oh, and I do NOT have "Surf n View". I don't even know what that is.


* I only wanted IFC for Portlandia and instead I just got it from Amazon On Demand. I plan to do the same for season 2.
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Old 12-01-2011, 08:56 AM   #5471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwoody222 View Post
.......I was excluded from most bundled deals due to TiVo also.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaneF View Post
.......she told me that the pricing I saw in the email didn't apply to CC customers and that it would actually cost me an additional $20 per month or something outrageous.

As I recall, the explanation had to do with the fact that CC customers didn't truly get their bundled package ..........
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwoody222 View Post
.......it's true you don't officially qualify for bundles..........
I'm on a bundle in TWC SW Ohio. My bill says:
Quote:
1104-1203 DIGITAL DOUBLE BUNDLE-1
BUNDLE INCLUDES BASIC SERVICE, STANDARD SERVICE, DIGITAL
VARIETY PACKAGE, MUSIC CHOICE, ON SCREEN GUIDE, FREE ON
DEMAND AND ROAD RUNNER STANDARD WITH POWERBOOST
The first year or so of my digital service (starting july 2009) I was not on a bundle and was paying about $20 more than now. I never pushed for a bundle -- they just gave it to me. Go figure!

On a partially related subject: Has anyone received a BYOB discount from TWC? I've yet to hear of this happening. My application was refused because my bundle doesn't include a STB or DVR.
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Old 12-01-2011, 02:01 PM   #5472
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It's coming back to me now. I think the issue was that I have the Watch and Surf bundle (I think this is what it's called... it's digital cable with high speed internet, no phone service). The CSR said I really SHOULDN'T be getting the bundle price, and if she added the tier with IFC she'd have to totally re-do my account, putting everything at a la carte pricing, thus losing the bundle and upping my monthly bill by approx $20.

Sometimes I really wonder if the rules are just at the whim of the CSR you talk to, or more precisely, the CSR's interpretation of the rules. I mean, when I originally signed up for TWC the CSR was able to give me a bundle AND CableCARDs.. so it's not like their system prevents it. I should really call and try to do it again.
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Old 12-01-2011, 02:58 PM   #5473
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Yeah, as I said above, my bundle is called "Surf and View" and I have cable internet and TV only. I get one digital tier included, any additionals I add above that are $4.95. This is with one M Card in a TiVo Premiere.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:10 PM   #5474
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Right now, it is cheaper with Time Warner to get a DVR package and stick it in the closet - not offering bundles to cablecard customers is discriminatory and is a clear FCC violation. I really wish everyone would file an FCC complaint. That is probably the only way to get them to follow the rules.

google: FCC cablecard, know your rights

"Your operator must give you a discount on any packages that include the price of a set-top box if you choose to use your own CableCARD-enabled device. "

Note it does not say anywhere that operators can exclude you from all package pricing if you do not use their DVR

Last edited by jmelan : 12-04-2011 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 12-05-2011, 08:32 AM   #5475
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.........Note it does not say anywhere that operators can exclude you from all package pricing if you do not use their DVR
Good luck with that. The thought occurs to me that TWC may have some clever lawyers who have analyzed the FCC rulings.
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:02 AM   #5476
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Am thinking of going the Tivo route and dumping my TWC box. What have others experienced with installing the cable card and tuning adapter via TWC? I was told dropping their box for Tivo, would not effect my bundle price, other than not having to pay for thier DVR anymore, is that true with others experiences?
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:33 AM   #5477
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Quick question, as I haven't been following a long for a while. Does Time Warner in NYC still have to send someone out to install a card or can you pick one up and do it your self?
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:36 AM   #5478
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in Canton Oh. they sent the cable card along with the tuning adapter
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:45 AM   #5479
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This is my understanding, which could be wrong.

If you want a bundle that requires the rental of a STB but you don't want the STB, they can deny you the bundle since the conditions of the bundle require something you won't agree to.

(it's also sometimes limited by your local area and the ability of whichever CSR you get and their ability to enter custom orders... yes, some CSRs are dumber than others)

If you have a bundle that *includes* the cost of a STB that you are not using, as of this past August, they are required to refund you the cost of that box if you are using TiVo.

If you currently have a bundle - with a promotional time-period, and want to change any part of that agreement - such as dropping a DVR for a TiVo, they could block you since you agreed to a particular plan for a set amount of time.

Also, as of August, they are required to offer self-installs of CableCARDs.
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:07 AM   #5480
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Also, as of August, they are required to offer self-installs of CableCARDs.
Thanks. Gonna have to take a ride to the nearest office.
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Old 12-05-2011, 11:18 AM   #5481
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Quick question, as I haven't been following a long for a while. Does Time Warner in NYC still have to send someone out to install a card or can you pick one up and do it your self?
Experiences are many and varied.... just do a quick scan going back in time of this thread and the TWC Tuning Adapter thread to get the picture.
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Old 12-05-2011, 03:03 PM   #5482
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This is my understanding, which could be wrong.

If you want a bundle that requires the rental of a STB but you don't want the STB, they can deny you the bundle since the conditions of the bundle require something you won't agree to.

(it's also sometimes limited by your local area and the ability of whichever CSR you get and their ability to enter custom orders... yes, some CSRs are dumber than others)

If you have a bundle that *includes* the cost of a STB that you are not using, as of this past August, they are required to refund you the cost of that box if you are using TiVo.

If you currently have a bundle - with a promotional time-period, and want to change any part of that agreement - such as dropping a DVR for a TiVo, they could block you since you agreed to a particular plan for a set amount of time.

...
I understand what you are saying, and I think the cable company would agree with this sort of logic.

however, reading throught the full details of the FCC ruling, it is clear they went out of their way to oppose all of these scenarios, even saying that discounts must also be given for packages that include "free" DVRs.

"•Pay only for equipment you have. Your operator must give you a discount on any packages that include the price of a set-top box if you choose to use your own CableCARD-enabled device. FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(5)."

Not some packages, not only ones that do not include a DVR, does not say it excludes customers that already have a plan, not only if you also rent a STB in addition to your cablecard etc.

This is exactly why the FCC complaints link is given at the end of the info page.

What I don't understand is why Time Warner is willing to get cited by the FCC in order to make a little extra money on less than 1% of its subscribers. They will get away with it as well if enough complaints are not filed.

Last edited by jmelan : 12-05-2011 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 12-05-2011, 03:22 PM   #5483
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........Note it does not say anywhere that operators can exclude you from all package pricing if you do not use their DVR

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfl View Post
Good luck with that. The thought occurs to me that TWC may have some clever lawyers who have analyzed the FCC rulings.
Quote:
( 2 ) For any bundled offer combining service and an operator-supplied
navigation device into a single fee, including any bundled offer
providing a discount for the purchase of multiple services, such
provider shall make such offer available without discrimination to any
customer that owns a navigation device
, and, to the extent the customer
uses such navigation device in lieu of the operator-supplied equipment
included in that bundled offer, shall further offer such customer a
discount from such offer equal to an amount not less than the monthly
rental fee reasonably allocable to the lease of the operator-supplied
navigation device included with that offer
. For purposes of this
section, in determining what is "reasonably allocable," the Commission
will consider in its evaluation whether the allocation is consistent
with one or more of the following factors:
As above, the cable company cannot discriminate against a cablecard user because they do not use "operator-supplied equipment", seems rather clear to me.

Last edited by jmelan : 12-05-2011 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 12-05-2011, 03:31 PM   #5484
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Interesting discussion. I'm not seeing any credit on my bill, but I'm on a "price-lock guarantee" deal that prevents any increases for two years; I expect they would argue that it also prevents any /decreases/.
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Old 12-05-2011, 04:00 PM   #5485
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http://www.edwardswildman.com/files/...ndledCable.pdf

here is a nice analysis from a legal perspective, somewhat complex but in no way supporting what Time Warner is doing in my area.

main recommendation is that cable company should not bundle equipment into packages, however if they do, then the least amount offered to cablecard customers should be:

(normal cost of equipment)x(1-discount offered on bundle)

so for a total bundle price that includes a 10 percent discount over the individual components, with a cable box that normally costs 10, it would be ($10)x(1-0.1) = $9

they recommend against trying to claim that the DVR is given for free as part of the bundle as "Indeed, this would appear to be precisely the sort of “subsidized” offering that the FCC rule is intended to prevent."

Last edited by jmelan : 12-05-2011 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:13 AM   #5486
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Am thinking of going the Tivo route and dumping my TWC box. What have others experienced with installing the cable card and tuning adapter via TWC? I was told dropping their box for Tivo, would not effect my bundle price, other than not having to pay for thier DVR anymore, is that true with others experiences?
I have two Tivo's and still got a bundle price for phone, TV and Internet, the install is painful as most installers have trouble with the cable card and switched video adapters. Also just finding cable cards and switched video adapters is a pain. But to me it was worth it to not have the TWC DVR.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:27 AM   #5487
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Originally Posted by jmelan View Post
http://www.edwardswildman.com/files/...ndledCable.pdf

here is a nice analysis from a legal perspective, somewhat complex but in no way supporting what Time Warner is doing in my area.

main recommendation is that cable company should not bundle equipment into packages, however if they do, then the least amount offered to cablecard customers should be:

(normal cost of equipment)x(1-discount offered on bundle)

so for a total bundle price that includes a 10 percent discount over the individual components, with a cable box that normally costs 10, it would be ($10)x(1-0.1) = $9

they recommend against trying to claim that the DVR is given for free as part of the bundle as "Indeed, this would appear to be precisely the sort of “subsidized” offering that the FCC rule is intended to prevent."
The referenced "Client Advisory" is interesting and it probably does represent the intent of the regulations. However, intent doesn't completely determine how laws are actually implemented. I can picture TWC's lawyers reading this, laughing, and saying "well they're entitled to their opinion!". I suspect the law firm that published this is trolling for clients who want to bring actions against the cable cos on this issue.

The document mentions the Cable Co's "Rate Card". Have you seen or requested said card from your TWC provider?
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:37 AM   #5488
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I wish TWC,would just offer the ability to rent a tivo from them, if one would so choose
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:35 AM   #5489
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...probably does represent the intent of the regulations...The document mentions the Cable Co's "Rate Card". Have you seen or requested said card from your TWC provider?
the intention of the law is the law (as stated in the legal discussion), same as with the IRS and taxes, it is irrelevant if their lawyers are paid to argue otherwise, the FCC has defined the intention of the law and other cable companies have changed their policies to be in compliance.

The intention of the FCC is clearly stated here:
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2011...2011-16869.pdf

normal cost of equipment (rate card costs) is easy to find if you begin to sign up as a new customer and try to add additional DVR/cable boxes to your order. Otherwise you can just call up customer service and ask - they are happy to tell you.

To be honest, I am surprised at the defense of Time Warner here? aren't we all in support of consumer rights?

Time Warner's policies at this point in time are discriminatory to the cablecard community (exclusion from packages, equipment costs, subsidizing services, etc).

If everyone would work together in support of their rights, these issues would cease to exist. Time Warner has put up a BYOB discount application (because obviously they know they are supposed to) and not given it to anyone. Why not just file a complaint and support everyone here? It might not be resolved tomorrow, but it will never happen if we just sit here and take it.

I posted here to try and raise awareness of the law and the relevant details, so that the larger community could help effect change for the benefit of all.

http://www.fcc.gov/guides/cablecard-know-your-rights
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...-11-1373A1.pdf
http://www.hallikainen.com/FccRules/2012/76/1205/

http://www.fcc.gov/complaints

I am pursuing multiple paths to get my own situation resolved.
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:49 PM   #5490
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the intention of the law is the law (as stated in the legal discussion), same as with the IRS and taxes, it is irrelevant if their lawyers are paid to argue otherwise, the FCC has defined the intention of the law and other cable companies have changed their policies to be in compliance.
Yeah, well TWC hasn't always done what the other cos have done, and they've gotten away with it a lot.
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The intention of the FCC is clearly stated here:
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2011...2011-16869.pdf
Ultimately the intent of the law is argued out in legal proceedings. The intent of the framers of the law is subject to interpretation and the end result may not agree with your interpretation. i.e., what you perceive as the "clearly stated" intent of your linked reference.
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To be honest, I am surprised at the defense of Time Warner here? aren't we all in support of consumer rights?
What a joke. Take a casual scan of my posts in this and other threads on this forum and see if you think calling me a defender of TWC is fair. I'm in favor of realism, logic and rights for all parties, including consumers.
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Time Warner's policies at this point in time are discriminatory to the cablecard community (exclusion from packages, equipment costs, subsidizing services, etc).
Their policies have always attempted to discriminate against TiVo's because they are a PITA to them and cost them profits. The question is (1) whether they are violating laws and (2) whether they can be penalized or made to change their behavior. They have a long history of getting away with it so I wouldn't bet on things changing.
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Originally Posted by jmelan View Post
If everyone would work together in support of their rights, these issues would cease to exist. Time Warner has put up a BYOB discount application (because obviously they know they are supposed to) and not given it to anyone. Why not just file a complaint and support everyone here? It might not be resolved tomorrow, but it will never happen if we just sit here and take it.
I agree in principle. In fact if you'll check out this thread you'll find I have acted on this principle in the past:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=450967
I will file a complaint on this and we can hope for the best .... but it's naive to expect the best. That would be underestimating the cleverness of TWC's lawyers -- and overestimating the capabilities of the FCC. Remember, TiVo owners comprise about 0.5% of digital cable subscribers so "everyone" is not a huge political factor.
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Originally Posted by jmelan View Post
I posted here to try and raise awareness of the law and the relevant details, so that the larger community could help effect change for the benefit of all.
.....
Yeah, I know .... see my previous linked thread!
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