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Old 11-30-2007, 05:47 PM   #4351
rlawson4
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Update on my TIVO HD

I have 2 S-Cards in my Tivo HD. On tuner one, I am not receiving several channels. I went through each one and made a list. Tuner 2 received them all. I don't know what to do. Thanks in Advance.
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Old 11-30-2007, 05:55 PM   #4352
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What does the conditional access screen for each card say?
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Old 11-30-2007, 06:42 PM   #4353
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Comcast charge adjustment in Seattle

Just passing along my experience with Seattle Comcast and a Series 3 box. I've been up and trouble free with my Series 3 since last July. I picked up the cable cards at the North Seattle office and handled getting them initialized over the phone with a Comcast CSR. I was looking over my bill today and noticed an extra 5.10 digital outlet charge on top of the $1.79 I expected for the second cable card. I called a CSR today and they quickly stopped the charge and credited me for the mistaken charges back to July. Relatively painless.

Best, Jay
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Old 11-30-2007, 07:12 PM   #4354
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I would not recommend unplugging your cableCARDs with the power on since it "can" change the DATA ID field. If that field changes, you will lose the pairing with Comcast. It is perfectly safe to remove the cards with the power off as long as they go back in the same slot. I know some have suggested that removing the cards while powered up is no different from removing them powered off, but I asked a lead technician from comcast about this and he said not to do it. He said he has personally seen the DATA ID field change.
The comcast rep is blowing smoke up your... It's perfectly safe to remove/reinsert the cards while the unit's powered up (of course, make sure you don't swap the cards around when you're doing this). There are only two ways the card generates a new data value:

1)The card card doesn't recognize the host as the last one it was installed in, or the host doesn't recognize the card as the last one that was installed in it. I.e. when you insert a card for the first time, the card remembers some info about the host, and the host remembers some info about the card. If either value changes, then the pairing is broken, and the card generates a new data value.

A corollary to this is a Clear and Delete Everything. This causes the S3 to "forget" about what card was installed, thus breaking the pairing.

2) The headend explicitly sends a message to the card, telling it to generate a new data value (on the headend, this is a "revalidation" hit, because after this hit is received, you'll have to validate the card again). I had this happen to me when I was trying to get my cards paired. They kept sending this hit, thus immediately obsoleting the data I had just given them a minute ago.

If you think about it from the card's point of view, the host power cycling is *exactly* the same as the card being removed and reinserted while the host is powered up. The card is powered up and running in steady state, then the card is not powered, then the card is re-powered, and goes through it's initialization.
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Old 12-01-2007, 02:06 AM   #4355
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I'm in Santa Clara, CA, and I just had my CableCard installed in my TivoHD today. To my surprise, the installation was a breeze! The tech was very knowledgeable and had obviously done a ton of these installations before. He was actually training a new hire and was explaining all the quirks of the Tivo install (how the Tivo HD needs one m-card, and S3 needs two s-cards, how it will inaccurately report an S-Card is inserted at first before showing M-Card, how an error message is actually a good thing and indicates the hit was successful). The appointment lasted about 20 minutes and I am now enjoying guide data and season passes to my shows in HD!

I'm currently paying $16/month for limited basic and the cablecard is supposedly free. I'm now tempted to add the HD package for $7 more per month to add ESPNHD, TNTHD, Discovery HD, etc... but was wondering if this even possible? Do I need a digital package before getting this?

BTW, I did have some trouble getting Comcast to actually give me a cablecard in the first place. Read here for the gory details. Basically the key was never mentioning "Tivo" when dealing with the Comcast CSRs.
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Old 12-01-2007, 02:49 AM   #4356
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I'm currently paying $16/month for limited basic and the cablecard is supposedly free. I'm now tempted to add the HD package for $7 more per month to add ESPNHD, TNTHD, Discovery HD, etc... but was wondering if this even possible? Do I need a digital package before getting this?
I believe the $7 is for the HD cable box rental (which you don't need), not the cost of the channels.
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Old 12-01-2007, 09:56 AM   #4357
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I have called Comcast at least 5x and appeared at the local billing office and they can't seem to get it straight. Comcast's website states "there is no charge for the first CableCARD that you use...if additional CableCARDS are needed for other devices installed on additional outlets, you will not be charged for the first cableCARD installed on this outlet." Periodically, they also send me a tri-fold insert with their channel lineup and prices. There, they state that the first cableCARD "per device" will be free.
In reality they charge me $1.50 for the card on the 2nd TIVO and (depending on the month) $5.95 for a digital a/o (which I don't have and which has a listed rate of $6.95/month).
As an attorney, my first thought was to sue them. Then I remembered to check the customer agreement - which requires arbitration. This dramtically increases the cost of litigation - effectively giving Comcast "the right to steal".

Attorney Bo - Detroit
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Old 12-01-2007, 11:00 AM   #4358
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I have called Comcast at least 5x and appeared at the local billing office and they can't seem to get it straight. Comcast's website states "there is no charge for the first CableCARD that you use...if additional CableCARDS are needed for other devices installed on additional outlets, you will not be charged for the first cableCARD installed on this outlet." Periodically, they also send me a tri-fold insert with their channel lineup and prices. There, they state that the first cableCARD "per device" will be free.
In reality they charge me $1.50 for the card on the 2nd TIVO and (depending on the month) $5.95 for a digital a/o (which I don't have and which has a listed rate of $6.95/month).
As an attorney, my first thought was to sue them. Then I remembered to check the customer agreement - which requires arbitration. This dramtically increases the cost of litigation - effectively giving Comcast "the right to steal".

Attorney Bo - Detroit
You haven't really given all the info needed to determine if what you describe is correct or not.

For a moment, let's ignore the difference between the first outlet and additional outlets.

Comcast charges a fee for each outlet requiring authorization. That additional outlet fee is usually about $6-$7.

With each additional outlet, you get either a digital receiver or a CableCARD. If you want a DVR, there's an additional fee for the DVR, typically another $4-$7.

If you have a CableCARD for that outlet and require a second CableCARD for the same outlet, there's an additional fee of about $1.50 for it.

Now back to the first outlet... it's actually included in each digital programming package, so there's no separate line item for an additional outlet fee for your first outlet.

So if you have only two TiVo's and no other receivers or DVRs from Comcast and require 2 CableCARDs for each, your bill would include:

Digital Programming Package Fee
Additional CableCARD for first TiVo
Additional Outlet fee for second TiVo
Additional CableCARD for second TiVo

If you only have a single CableCARD in one or both of your TiVo's, typically the M card that supports two streams simultaneously, then there wouldn't be the Additional CableCARD fee for those receivers, but there'd still be an Additional Outlet fee for the second TiVo.
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Old 12-01-2007, 10:34 PM   #4359
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Success in SF Bay Area

I just bought two Tivo HD's and had Comcast service activated. I requested that the installer bring M-Cards rather than S-Cards. The installer was friendly and competent. He said that he hadn't done a ton of CableCard installs but he had the process down. The installation went off without a hitch and so far everything is working. What a relief. Once I've received a bill I'll know whether there are any anomalies there.

I switched from DirecTV (still connected for the moment). In my brief experience to date I find that there is more variability in the quality of HD content than I experienced with DTV. Some HD content looks great, other content seems to be of noticeably lower (but still good) quality. I'm enjoying having a more modern release of the TiVo software than was available on my HR10-250's.
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Old 12-01-2007, 11:00 PM   #4360
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I finally got a "clean" Comcast bill -- one without any service call charges.

As far as I can tell, they're charging me a $5 HD fee for each of the three CableCARDs (2 single-stream and 1 multi-stream) and a $7.95 additional outlet fee per card for two of the cards. At the same time, they're crediting back $16.80 for not using digital converters or Comcast remotes. That breaks down to $4.20 per outlet -- that fee is specifically listed -- for FOUR outlets, which confuses me.
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Old 12-01-2007, 11:07 PM   #4361
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I really don't get why they will not let you just pick up the cable cards. ...I'm sure its a money thing, they want that $13.99 for the install fee.. ...
...
As someone who was able to pick up cards, I get what you are saying.. But to be honest, once they were unable to pair my cards they wanted to blame me or the equpiment rather than admit they didnt know what they were doing. At least when you have a truck roll there is nobody to blame. Doesnt mean it will work the first roll.. believe me... I know.
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Old 12-01-2007, 11:12 PM   #4362
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I finally got a "clean" Comcast bill -- one without any service call charges.

As far as I can tell, they're charging me a $5 HD fee for each of the three CableCARDs (2 single-stream and 1 multi-stream) and a $7.95 additional outlet fee per card for two of the cards. At the same time, they're crediting back $16.80 for not using digital converters or Comcast remotes. That breaks down to $4.20 per outlet -- that fee is specifically listed -- for FOUR outlets, which confuses me.
They've messed it up, big-time. Have fun straightening it out. I've still gotta write a letter from all the misconfigured account charges from my second Series3 install (not to mention the 3 missed appointments I was promised credit for). Everything was perfect the first time around, mostly because it was someone from corporate who'd fixed it the first time around. I'm not even going to bother trying to call and explain it over the phone. I just don't want to have to repeat myself to every CSR as I get escalated through their call centers.
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Old 12-02-2007, 07:59 AM   #4363
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At least when you have a truck roll there is nobody to blame. Doesnt mean it will work the first roll.. believe me... I know.

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Old 12-02-2007, 08:34 AM   #4364
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Just lost signal to CC 2 on my THD. Working great till this AM. Went thru guided setup and reboot without improvement. What can I do to avoid another painful truck roll
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Old 12-02-2007, 01:31 PM   #4365
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I am getting ready to place my orders for Cablecards. I have my new Tivo HD will replace the POS STB 6412. I know if need a cable card type M for this.

On my second TV I have a Sony SVR3000 along with the Comcast STD for standard def. Since this is a Panasonic TV with multiple inputs, will it be a problem either for Comcast/Tivo/Panasonic to have on 1 input the CableCard and second input the Tivo and STD from Comcast.

The purpose of this is to watch HD channels live. I have no plans to replace the Sony SVR3000 with a Tivo HD version.
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Old 12-02-2007, 06:40 PM   #4366
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Here in southern NH I will be getting my Comcast cards Wednesday, no charge for the first card, 2nd is $3.75

I tried the "two cards, one machine" routine, but it didn't work.

Looking at the other postings in this thread, I see that it seems to be area-specific.

Unfortunately I don't know anyone around here who's using a standalone TiVo with Comcast so I can't compare notes.

Big Al Mintaka
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Old 12-02-2007, 07:12 PM   #4367
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Here in southern NH I will be getting my Comcast cards Wednesday, no charge for the first card, 2nd is $3.75
If you have a TiVo HD, you only need one M-Card, thus no charge. If they do bring you two S-Cards or if you have an Series 3 which requires two cableCARDs, you will likely (read as should) be charged only $2.75 for (1) A/O (Additional Outlet.) I live south of you, in Boston, and my Father lives north of you near Keene. We both have Series 3's and we are both charged $2.75 per A/O after the first cableCARD.
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Old 12-03-2007, 08:20 AM   #4368
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Hi,
I'm new to the forum - sorry in advance if I replied to the wrong post... Anyway, I am in Atlanta and have Comcast. I just got a new TivoHD and I requested Comcast to come out and bring me a multistream (m-card). The Comcast rep I spoke to made note of the m-card request on my work order. So a Comcast tech came out and of course brought a single s-card instead of the m-card I requested. So, I let them do the install anyway and the tech told me to call back to have them come back out to bring the correct card that I requested. So, I call and speak to a Comcast customer-no-service representative who tells me they only have 1 type of card, i.e., no m-card. I believe she is lying to me so that I will have to pay more for the extra s-card to get dual tuner functionality. She also inquired whether or not the cablecard was going into a Tivo or not. I don't know why Comcast needs to know what the card is going into.

Anyway, are there any folks on here in the Atlanta market with Comcast m-cards? And, for the second trip out, any tips on how to make sure the Comcast tech brings an m-card? The tech I spoke to before told me he just brought what the warehouse gave him. I was thinking of requesting like 6 m-cards and then when the tech arrives, hopefully he will have at least 1 m-card and then I'll tell him I just need the one card. Thanks for any insight.
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Old 12-03-2007, 08:41 AM   #4369
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Anyway, I am in Atlanta and have Comcast. I just got a new TivoHD and I requested Comcast to come out and bring me a multistream (m-card).
It's all pretty much what they have available I would assume. I was told that there were no more S-Cards around where I live Comcast/NE. That may or may not be true. I guess the safest bet would be to always ask for two cards and if they bring one M-Card, you can easily get the bill adjusted since you will have proof only one card was installed. As you are probably aware, it's unlikely most of the installers and/or CSR's know the difference. So, just say "I want two cableCARDs for my TiVo."

EDIT: OBTW, I have a Series 3 which could have easily used S-Cards and I was given two M-Cards, which in the Series 3 act like S-Cards.
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Old 12-03-2007, 08:52 AM   #4370
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Comcast in NW Indiana told me they would install a M-Card and they bought out two S-Cards because they do not have M-Cards yet.

All worked fine until Sat when Card 1 went kaput and will not receive any channel over 276 on my line up, so now I am waiting for a Comcast rep to come out and repair the card
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Old 12-03-2007, 09:17 AM   #4371
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If you have a TiVo HD, you only need one M-Card, thus no charge. If they do bring you two S-Cards or if you have an Series 3 which requires two cableCARDs, you will likely (read as should) be charged only $2.75 for (1) A/O (Additional Outlet.) I live south of you, in Boston, and my Father lives north of you near Keene. We both have Series 3's and we are both charged $2.75 per A/O after the first cableCARD.
I'm also in Boston, and am scheduled to get cards for my new HD box delivered tomorrow. I asked for one M-card, but they said they don't have M-cards, that I would need to get two singles, with a $2.75 monthly charge for the second.

Is it true that Comcast in Boston don't have M-cards, or did I just get an ignorant sales rep?
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Old 12-03-2007, 09:31 AM   #4372
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Is it true that Comcast in Boston don't have M-cards, or did I just get an ignorant sales rep?
I can't speak for all of the Comcast/NE or even the Boston area as it may be specific to your local office's inventory. When I had mine installed, I was told there were no more S-cards. I'm in the Lowell area.
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Old 12-03-2007, 01:04 PM   #4373
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Had a visit from my friendly neighborhood Comcast subcontractor in the Boston commuter suburbs today to get my Tivo HD up and running. Said he'd done a few other Tivo boxes recently, but it didn't show. They sent him out with a handful of M-cards -- one of which had "F*CKED!" written on it in marker pen. I persuaded him not to try that one first.

Anyway, advanced services kept him on hold for about 40 minutes, but once they did their thing everything worked fine. With some effort, I convinced the tech that he really didn't need to install the second card and he had a CSR take the extra outlet charge off the account. Whether it stays off is another question, of course.

Not too painful.
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Old 12-03-2007, 03:03 PM   #4374
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You have the same question as me except for a different area: Does Comcast in Atlanta really not have M-cards? Or does it depend on who you speak to?
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Old 12-03-2007, 11:39 PM   #4375
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What services do I need to order before picking up my cable cards?

This is great news as I'll be going to the N. Seattle office to do the same route (hopefully). Couple of questions: I currently have extended basic cable which I watch on my non-HD TV. I'll be getting my HD TV tomorrow and Tivo HD next week.

Do I need to order the Comcast HD service before I pick up my cable cards? Do I need to order one of the Digital Packages to get HD channels?


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I will throw in my experience here, I live in NW Washington, north of Seattle.

I just purchased a Tivo-HD and transfered my lifetime subscription with the special that ended November 8th.

I called the Comcast 800# to schedule a cable card install. The person I spoke to on the phone said cable cards no longer need to be installed by Comcast. I could just run out to the office, pick them up and install them myself, or he would be happy to schedule a Comcast technician to install them for me, but the soonest they could come would be two weeks from now and there would be a charge for the installation.

So I said I think can handle it myself and went out the next day to get them.

The lady at the Comcast center said I would need two multi-stream cards, but was not sure if they were the blue or red cards.

Interesting the red cards say M-card and the Blue cards say S-card. To me that meant Multi-stream and Single-stream but I guess she could not figure that out and it took her ten minutes to find someone that knew this.

I was amazed in how cheap these things are. Here are the recent charges from my online statement.

TIVO SERIES 3-CABLE CARD $ 0.71
TIVO SERIES 3-CABLE CARD $ 0.71
LOCAL TAX $ 0.11
FRANCHISE FEE $ 0.06
STATE SALES TAX $ 0.12
Total $ 1.71

When the Tivo arrived I hooked it up and made sure it worked before I installed the cards. Reading the manual I noticed it said I only need ONE multi stream or TWO single stream cards, made sense to me.

So I just installed one card to the first slot. The Tivo jumped right to a screen that said "This screen was provided by your cable company" this screen had an 800# to call to activate the card. I called it and read off a couple numbers from the screen to them. Then the guy said he was activating it now, the screen changed to some "//failed//auth//" error message. So he did it again and said it should be working, try some channels. So I flipped through a few of the channels that needed to be authorized and sure enough it was working.

I tested the multi-stream part by making sure I could indeed record two channels at once with one M-Card.

Over all the entire process took about ten minutes and was pretty painless.

I will have to say Comcast has improved their customer support as many of my prior interactions with them have not gone so well.

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Old 12-04-2007, 06:17 AM   #4376
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This is great news as I'll be going to the N. Seattle office to do the same route (hopefully). Couple of questions: I currently have extended basic cable which I watch on my non-HD TV. I'll be getting my HD TV tomorrow and Tivo HD next week.

Do I need to order the Comcast HD service before I pick up my cable cards? Do I need to order one of the Digital Packages to get HD channels?
I'm curious about this as well, as I too will be going to the North Seattle office shortly...picked up a TiVo HD at the Shoreline Costco tonight (my first TiVo, after spending countless hours over the last few years tinkering with MythTV). Watching some Good Eats on it at the moment

Does one just walk into the customer service center and ask for a MultiStream cable card (and drop off their no-longer-needed Comcast STBs?) I lost all my HD channels when they screwed up my packages when I moved a couple months ago anyway, so I'm going to re-add those anyway.
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Old 12-04-2007, 09:49 AM   #4377
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Do I need to order the Comcast HD service before I pick up my cable cards? Do I need to order one of the Digital Packages to get HD channels?
You should receive all the clear QAM channels without adding any extra services to your account.

In fact you will receive the Seattle locals and all their sub channels in HD without a cable card.

You will have to have a cablecard to receive eveything else since the HD-Tivo does not have an analog tuner.

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Does one just walk into the customer service center and ask for a MultiStream cable card (and drop off their no-longer-needed Comcast STBs?) I lost all my HD channels when they screwed up my packages when I moved a couple months ago anyway, so I'm going to re-add those anyway.
Simply drop by the office and pick them up.
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Old 12-04-2007, 09:54 AM   #4378
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You will have to have a cablecard to receive eveything else since the HD-Tivo does not have an analog tuner.
The Series 3 and TiVo HD units both have analog tuners.
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Old 12-04-2007, 10:37 AM   #4379
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Help!!

Can anyone here help me with my CC predicament? Here's the scoop:
--Got my Tivo HD on Friday...hooked it up Saturday and did guided set-up sans CC's (appt scheduled for Monday night). Did guided set-up and also did a manual connect to Tivo service. It DL'ed version 9.2 that night.

--Comcast came out last night with an M-card that my box immediately recognized. He called it in and we waited around while the screen showed "Acquiring Channel Information." This screen was up for a long time. When it finally went away, I was getting only a gray screen on all channels above 25. He said I was only getting Basic 1 level of service, although I should be getting Digital Preferred. He called again and dispatch said they'd send another hit to the card, but that it woudl take a while. He told me that everything was linked correctly and in their system, so I should just wait a couple hours and that the "hit" would take care of the problem. I was skeptical, but it was 7:00, so he left.

--Woke up this morning and same story (I didn't expect anything else!). All I get is a gray screen. I called Comcast hoping to speak to someone knowledgeable about these things, but all I got was a guy who wanted to send out another tech--Thursday night. I asked if we could go through the initialization again, and he said no--only techs can do that. I did read the serial number back to him and he at least checked that and said it was inputted correctly. Didn't bother to check anything else--I told him I could give him lots of other information about the card's status: host ID, unit ID, Auth, etc...wanted none of it.

--Called Tivo and asked for Cablecard help, and they did take me through quite a few steps, but basically told me that the problem was on Comcast's end and that the card needed to be re-paired. It looks like it's communicating with the mothership (she said my Auth code of "MP" was a good thing, as was the fact that my OOB count was going up each time I re-entered that menu).

Anyone have any tips, hints, or advice for me? Is there something I can check on these CableCard Menus to pinpoint exactly what the problem is, so that I can either tell that information to Tivo or Comcast? Do I have a bad card? Did Comcast mess up the initialization? How can I get them to do it again without waiting two days for a tech roll-out?

Thanks for any and all help!!!

UPDATE: LONG--SKIP TO THE BOTTOM FOR ADVICE. Luckily, the tech I had out last night gave me his direct phone number so I could call this morning to let him know whether or not it was working. I called him at about 10 and let him know that it wasn't working and that Comcast CSR's were idiots and not at all helpful. He never called back, but to my surprise just showed up at my house around 11:30. He had brought another M-Card with him in case that was the problem. He fiddled around with a bunch of stuff, but basically we never got far. He admitted he had very little experience with these things, but was going to stick around until it was figured out. He called dispatch a couple times and verified that the card data was entered correctly on their end and also asked for more "hits" to be sent out. We played with a bunch of stuff together, with me googling stuff and looking through these forums for help for both of us. The Cable Card menus are seriously baffling--even he didn't know what most of them meant.

Anyway, after about and hour and a half and phone calls to numerous dispatachers AND his supervisor, he got on the line with a dispatcher who knew a bit more than the others and who was willing to work really hard with him. Basically, she told him that the M-cards had JUST started being used and that the other dispatchers probably had no clue what they even were. They checked a bunch of stuff on their end and my end and still couldn't figure stuff out. Finally, she asked if they could just re-check the pairing data to make sure it was right...my tech was reluctant, as he had read it back multiple times to the other dispatchers already, only to have them tell him it was all entered correctly on their end. Anyway, they went ahead and triple-checked the data entered on their end and found that INDEED, the original dispatcher last night had entered it incorrectly, SWAPPING the DATA field with the CARD ID. The other dispatchers he had talked to this morning were so clueless that they didn't even notice--they just saw that the numbers he was reading back were correct, not even noting that they were in the wrong data fields!!!

Anyway, now that the error was uncovered, it was time to fix it. Unfortunately, the dispatcher on the phone did not know how to overwrite this error, so she called her supervisor and got him in on a three-way call. This guy was SUPER knowledgeable--my tech later told me he is the "cable guru." I listened in on a lot of their conversation, and this guy knew absolutely EVERYTHING about CC's and Tivo. He knew every menu by heart and led my tech through exactly what to do, asking from time to time whether things had changed on our end after he did things on his end. FINALLY, someone who actually knew what the heck was going on! He knew what every data field meant, and knew right away that the card had never been properly paired with my account. He was finally able to swap the incorrect data fields on their end and then send a correct "hit" which actually made it to the card. He then had us restart the box, and VOILA, after seeing the "acquiring channel info" screen for about a minute, Tivo HD was now ALIVE!!! We tested a bunch of channels on both tuners and everything was in order. I thanked my tech profusely--I seriously don't think many of them would've lasted so long (about 3 hours total)--and told him to thank the "guru" on the other end.

Advice: --If things don't work right away, make sure the the tech checks and double checks that things were entered correctly on their end. Don't worry about being annoying--most dispatchers and CSR's are incompetent, I've found. If they say no, keep calling or doing online chats until you get someone who's willing to check everything--Card ID, Host ID, and Data field.

--Also, if a tech tries to leave your house saying, "Just give it an hour (or insert time here) and it'll work," DON'T BUY THAT and DON'T let him leave w/o giving you his direct # to call with updates. W/o getting that last night, I would've been screwed today, sitting here waiting for Comcast to roll another tech on Thursday--one who likely would've been clueless and far less willing to help than the guy I already had out.

--Finally, when things get really hairy (a couple hours in), INSIST on talking to (or having the tech talk to) THE MOST KNOWLEDGEABLE people available--whether they be dispatchers, supervisors, or executives. We went through so many incompetents before finally getting to someone who knew what they were doing and fixed the whole problem in literally 5 minutes.


Last edited by abeln2672 : 12-04-2007 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 12-04-2007, 10:43 AM   #4380
HottubJack
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4
Comcast Boca Raton

Newbie here.

My TiVo HD should arrive today and Comcast is coming to install 2 cable cards on Friday. I couldn't get them to understand the difference between using one M-card and two S-cards. CSR told me to sort it out with the installer. I'm going by the office today to see if I can talk them into giving me an M-card and cancelling the installation visit. Wish me luck.

My question here is that they insist on charging me $12.45 for the first card and $13.45 for the second card as if they were additional HD outlets. This is in addition to the normal charge of $2 for the second card. I couldn't convince the West Palm Beach office (up to the manager level) that this is not right. I said this is not done elsewhere to my knowledge and they replied "local policy".



Anyone have experience with this issue?

Last edited by HottubJack : 12-04-2007 at 11:33 AM. Reason: Clarification
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