HR10-250 vs. TiVo Series 3

MickeS · 09-12-2006, 09:08 PM

So I happened to walk into Circuit City this evening, and for the first time I looked at the DirecTV offerings.

Turns out I could get (lease) a HR10-250 for $20 if I sign up for a 2 year committment ($50+tax per month incl HD channels).

This is pretty tempting. I sortaknow the differences between HR20 and HR10, but what are the differences between the HR10 and the Series 3, except the networking stuff?

I wasn't going to get digital cable, so in reality I will probably end up paying more for the HR10 over 2 years, than I would even if I bought the Series 3 today.

Are there any big advantages to the HR10 and/or DirecTVs programing, over what we know about the Series 3?

bkdtv · 09-12-2006, 09:56 PM

MickeS,

The DirecTivo HR10 is on clearance because it is discontinued. DirecTV is phasing out Directivos and replacing them with new DVRs using their own software. By doing this, they gain total control over the interface and also avoid paying Tivo 20% of their DVR revenue (DirecTV pays Tivo $1/mo of their $5/mo DVR fee for every DirecTivo).

The main limitation of the DirecTV HR10 is that it doesn't support MPEG-4, and DirecTV is migrating all of its HD channels to MPEG-4 over the next several years. DirecTV offers local HD channels on satellite, but they are already in MPEG-4 so you can't get them with the HR10.

As far as advantages of the Series3 over the HR10, they include: support for MPEG-4 and WM9; support for external SATA hard drive expansion (with software update) for virtually unlimited storage capacity; improved graphics with HD menus; improved performance and responsiveness; more interface and video output options; and a much newer version of the Tivo software with more usability enhancements (like folders).

The Series3 also has the advantage in HDTV picture quality. DirecTV downconverts its high-definition from 1920x1080 to 1280x1080. This is often referred to as "HDTV Lite." You may not see a difference on a 30" HDTV, but it's pretty obvious on larger screens, and very obvious on the latest 1080p models which are quickly becoming the standard. Some cable companies do add extra compression on their HD signals, but none does it to the extent of DirecTV and Dish Network.

bdraw · 09-12-2006, 09:58 PM

We will know more after we all have a chance to use the Series 3.
But the series 3 has more features, some we will have to wait for.

the question is more about cable vs Sat. Until today if you wanted to record HD with a TiVo you only had one choice. If you can't get OTA locals you could only record the few sat channels. Rain fade etc(don't even refute rain fade with me, I missed 30 mins of the FSU vs UM game last week because of it).

I have a HR10-250 now and have a Series3 on the way, I will have lots of comparisons to make.

MickeS · 09-12-2006, 10:50 PM

bdraw, I'd be interested in your comparisons!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkdtv

The main limitation of the DirecTV HR10 is that it doesn't support MPEG-4, and DirecTV is migrating all of its HD channels to MPEG-4 over the next several years. DirecTV offers local HD channels on satellite, but they are already in MPEG-4 so you can't get them with the HR10.

Thanks, I knew about the MPEG-4 thing, and I was going to get local HD channels OTA anduse the HR10 as tuner. Is that possible?

The committment is 2 years - will DirecTV migrate a lot of HD channels to MPEG-4 during that time? If so, that'd be a pretty big reason not to get this...

Thanks for the compression information. Since my TV does 1920*1080, it would be nice to take advantage of that resolution. But OTA recorded by the HR10 would still be shown in full resolution, correct?

Ereth · 09-12-2006, 11:37 PM

$20? Darn, that might be worth doing to supplement the one I have now!

btwyx · 09-13-2006, 12:06 AM

The MPEG-4 thing is why I'm getting an S3, and my HR10-250 is probably going away. Its not only HD local channels that will be MPEG-4, new national HD channel will probably be MPEG-4 and the existing ones may be converted.

Basically there's no HD future for the HR10-250.

One channel that I couldn't get currently is my local sports net in HD. Its on the sat now I've heard.

MickeS · 09-13-2006, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ereth

$20? Darn, that might be worth doing to supplement the one I have now!

Apparently it's only for new subscribers.

btwyx, that's a pretty bleak picture you're painting there... since HD is the only reason I would have to get it, it would be pretty crappy to be locked into a 2-year agreement if they took that away.

seattlewendell · 09-13-2006, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickeS

Apparently it's only for new subscribers.

btwyx, that's a pretty bleak picture you're painting there... since HD is the only reason I would have to get it, it would be pretty crappy to be locked into a 2-year agreement if they took that away.

DirecTV still has millions of boxes in the field that can't get MPEG 4. If you are planning on keeping this box for 2-3 years your OK. They will not shut down the MPEG 2 signals by then. Think about it if they have you commited for X number of years and they decide to shut down the signals your boxes receives.....guess whos getting a new box free of charge. They can't force you honor your commitment without giving you a box the works with their new signals.

bidger · 09-13-2006, 12:31 PM

My personal viewpoint on S3 vs. HR10-250:

I have Lifetime with SA TiVo and D*, so I'll start with that point of reference.

HR10-250:

1) Picked up a year ago during the $299-$100 rebate special.

2) Cost to transfer Lifetime: $0.

3) Works with D* and ATSC signal only.

4) Prognosis for the future: as has already been stated, the future of D*-HD is MPEG-4, but if I can get another 2 years use out of it, I'll be happy.

5) If it should sh*t a brick, I think D* will give me another HD DVR for free or a small fee since it's my programming $ they're really after.

S3:

1) $799 MSRP, and I'm not gonna got nuts over that. It's new technology for TiVo and I know they have to try to recoup their production and development costs. But, I can also understand why some would shy away because they can lease a HD DVR from cable.

2) Lifetime: $199 transfer fee and I have to buy from TiVo.com, which eliminates any chance of a discount.

3) Works with cable and ATSC only. We enter the dicey situation of Cable Card, if were to switch from D*. Add to that it's Time-Warner in my area and SDV possibility and they come off as hostile to TiVo.

4) Prognosis for the future: I'm sure the S3 is a great machine, but it's still 3rd party and that makes them prone to cable. Even if I were to go HD OTA only there's only one station doing broadcast in my area right now and maybe 2 more in future. Plus, I could use the D* DVR for that.

5) If the S3 fails, anything beyond HdD failure, I'm fairly certain I'd be paying up the wazoo to fix it, provided TiVo doesn't offer an extended warranty, which I wouldn't be thrilled about having to pay.

Well, that's how it adds up for me, but I know that's not the same situation for everyone. For some, TiVo will be the priority and they have, or will soon, order the S3. I'm not completely ruling it out. Hey, if my numbers roll right on Lotto tonight, I'll order tomorrow!

btwyx · 09-13-2006, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickeS

btwyx, that's a pretty bleak picture you're painting there...

Considering that when I got Satellite I thought the Cable company was a worse to do business with that Satan, and now I'm contempating actually going to get there service again. D* must have done something pretty dramatic in the meantime. I've told D* several time their actions are the only thing which could make cable palatable again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seattlewendell

DirecTV still has millions of boxes in the field that can't get MPEG 4. If you are planning on keeping this box for 2-3 years your OK. They will not shut down the MPEG 2 signals by then.

Are those millions of HD or SD boxes? The SD is not going to be affected, its the HD that's going MPEG-4. There's a much smaler number of HD boxes, swapping SD would be impractical, swapping HD is a much more tractable idea, and its easier the quicker they do it. D* has a pretty aggressive schedule to swap all HD equipment for MPEG-4 capable stuff, which means no TiVo.

With TiVo your HD service with D* is also never going to expand. When I got the HR10-250, it could receive all D* programming, and they were promising a big expansion of HD. In the intervening 2.5 years the big expansion has been 2 more national (MPEG-2) HD channels and everything else is going to be MPEG-4, and not compatible.

You have to give up one of:

a. TiVo
b. HD
c. D*

With that choice I'm choosing c, which means I have to do business with cable again, however unpalatable that is. Its a good job this was announced in January, I've had 8 months to get used to the idea, and now I can contemplate talking to Comcast without feeling sick.

MickeS · 09-13-2006, 01:05 PM

Thanks for all the input. I must say though that bidger's comparison is in line with what I've been thinking, except I was going to drop cable down to just basic ($10/month) since I rarely watch anything but network TV and shows I download off the internet.

In that case, after two years I will have paid about the same for the HR10 lease as I have for the Series 3 with transferred lifetime... and I would think the Series 3 will be worth something still.

Decisions, decisions...