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Old 11-21-2007, 09:40 PM   #721
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The advantage is that when supported, you only need one cable card and therefore cut your cable bill by a few bucks a month.

Phase 1: M-card fully supported instead of 2 S-cards
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
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Old 11-22-2007, 10:06 AM   #722
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So is there any plan to make M-Cards where we could have two in the two slots we have in our boxes, record up to 4 shows? Or is that just a pipe dream?
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Old 11-22-2007, 10:32 AM   #723
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That would be a pipe dream at the moment. While it would be possible, more tuners would have to be placed in the box for it to work and I don't see a huge mass market appeal for 4 tuner boxes.
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Old 11-22-2007, 01:16 PM   #724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tivowiz View Post
I do have a couple of issues, I don't get 3 of the "new" HD channels & about 10 channels exhibit breakups/pixelation.

...

BTW - I'm in Williamsburg, VA..

If by 'the new' HD channels you're refering to TBS, Discovery, History, and HGTV then you won't get them. They are not included in the cablecard channel map. In the Hampton Roads area Switched Digital Video is going to be launching soon (I don't have an exact date, just soon.), and those are going to be among the first channels to be delivered by SDV. Last I heard TiVo is working on either a breakout box or a return via ethernet system (though I don't remember where I heard that) but until there is a two way link from the node to the TiVo those channels will not be avalible.

As for the channels that are tiling, I would be interested to know which channels they are as their might be some connection to a situation I ran into about a week ago with a S3 and THD.
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Old 11-22-2007, 03:54 PM   #725
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It's four channels for me now, TBS, History, HGTV & HD Theater - I get Discovery HD fine. The tiling channels are 203-207, 212, 240,241, 259 & 712. Checking the signal with the Tivo on those shows that it fluctuates rapidly from 70-85.

Ouch on the SDV, I realize that Cox needs to move to it, but, I doubt that Tivo will have anything until mid 2008 (if then), although they could surprise us.

Can I assume that any additional HD's will fall into this category as well?

Thanks for the info...

Last edited by tivowiz : 11-22-2007 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 11-22-2007, 04:56 PM   #726
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Originally Posted by tivowiz View Post
It's four channels for me now, TBS, History, HGTV & HF Theater - I get Discovery HD fine. The tiling channels are 203-207, 212, 240,241, 259 & 712. Checking the signal with the Tivo on those shows that it fluctuates rapidly from 70-85.

Ouch on the SDV, I realize that Cox needs to move to it, bt, I doubt that Tivo will have anything until mid 2008 (if then), although they could surprise us.

Can I assume that any additional HD's will fall into this category as well?

Thanks for the info...
Discovery HD seems to have just taken the slot on the channel map that HD Theater had, so that makes sense, the others are all in new places. The channels you're getting tiling on are almost all on the same carrier which falls inline with broadcast channel 39 which seems to be a religious channel, and the rest are part of a carrier that is inline with WTVZ's (broadcast ch33) broadcast digital channel; 233 and 766 are also in that area but since WTVZ (to my knowlage) doesn't seem to be using the whole channel it would make sense that your troubles wouldn't be on all of the cable channels it overlaps with.

I would suggest having a tech come out and check for possible ingress (broadcast signal bleeding into the cable system) at your home; specificly on the outlet that is feeding the TiVo. I'm not sure just how forgiving the tuner and decoder in the TiVo is so it may well show a problem on channels that the Cox supplied converter would not.

I can't speak to all new HD channels being in the same boat or not, or even new non HD channels (or current for that matter) as that information has not trickled down to me yet, but I will say that it would not supprise me.


You're very welcome... I'll answer any question I can *ducks the pending flood*
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Old 11-22-2007, 07:36 PM   #727
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I don't completly understand "channel mapping", but, isn't it the job of the cablecards to handle that part? Is it because the Tivo can't do upstream messaging that it doesn't work with those channels?

The ingress piece makes sense - especially since I have an antenna connected to the Tivo as well.

The Tivo is most likely going back, if it is having problems receiving channels now, I can't imagine what it will be like in a few months (unless the "tuning resolver" comes out soon). As much as I love the Tivo experience (bought my 1st one in 2000), one of the reasons I bought it was to simplify our life, right now it's not simplified anything for me

PS - I don't know if you are at liberty to say or not, but, I heard that there are more HD channels to come in the next month - any truth to that rumor?

Thanks again...
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Old 11-22-2007, 08:24 PM   #728
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Cox in Rhode Island does have M cards, but I haven't been able to get them to install one in a Tivo. I know they are available because they are loaded in the back of the new Moto DCH3416 boxes they are using now. When I've called and scheduled installs, they claim to only have single stream cards available.

jcmitch

http://broadband.motorola.com/busine...416_settop.asp
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Old 11-22-2007, 08:46 PM   #729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmitch View Post
Cox in Rhode Island does have M cards, but I haven't been able to get them to install one in a Tivo. I know they are available because they are loaded in the back of the new Moto DCH3416 boxes they are using now. When I've called and scheduled installs, they claim to only have single stream cards available.

jcmitch

http://broadband.motorola.com/busine...416_settop.asp
Hmm, let me know if you ever successful. I would assume that I would save $2 a month by going to a single card.
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:39 AM   #730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tivowiz View Post
I don't completly understand "channel mapping", but, isn't it the job of the cablecards to handle that part? Is it because the Tivo can't do upstream messaging that it doesn't work with those channels?
The short version is the system that tells the converter (or consumer device with a cablecard) what channels are where uses what is called a channel map. There is a map for Cox converters and one for cablecards. The reason that the new channels aren't coming in on cablecards is that those channels do not appear on the map for cards. Rather than allow the new channels to be tuned on one way cable card devices just to take them away when SDV is launched they are just not providing those channels to begin with.

And yes, the reason SDV doesn't work with consumer cablecard devices is that so far none support upstream communications.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tivowiz View Post
PS - I don't know if you are at liberty to say or not, but, I heard that there are more HD channels to come in the next month - any truth to that rumor?
The last of the channels that I knew about were the ones that were just launched, but I know that more will be coming in the next few months, I just don't know when.
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Old 11-23-2007, 07:07 AM   #731
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Thanks for the update - you've save some Cox CSR's and myself from wasting any more time trying to fix this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfranklin View Post
The short version is the system that tells the converter (or consumer device with a cablecard) what channels are where uses what is called a channel map. There is a map for Cox converters and one for cablecards. The reason that the new channels aren't coming in on cablecards is that those channels do not appear on the map for cards. Rather than allow the new channels to be tuned on one way cable card devices just to take them away when SDV is launched they are just not providing those channels to begin with.

And yes, the reason SDV doesn't work with consumer cablecard devices is that so far none support upstream communications.



The last of the channels that I knew about were the ones that were just launched, but I know that more will be coming in the next few months, I just don't know when.

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Old 11-23-2007, 12:21 PM   #732
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So if what I'm reading here is right, I can get M-Cards, but I'd still need two of them because I have a Series 3 HD box?

http://tivosupport2.instancy.com/Lau...5-4bfde6a851e4
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Old 11-23-2007, 04:37 PM   #733
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Quote:
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So if what I'm reading here is right, I can get M-Cards, but I'd still need two of them because I have a Series 3 HD box?

http://tivosupport2.instancy.com/Lau...5-4bfde6a851e4
That is correct - the Series 3 cannot currently handle muliple streams on an M-Card, so, you will need 2 of them.
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Old 11-24-2007, 03:57 AM   #734
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Any Current San Diego Mstream installs

Hi

I'm about to order a TIVO HD and would like to know if COX is currently installing single Mstream cards and if anyone is having issues with current installs??

Thanks.
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Old 11-24-2007, 07:35 AM   #735
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According to this article, Cox is only planning on going to SDV in 3 markets in 2008. Is Hampton Roads one of the markets?
Quote:
Switched digital video, meanwhile, has been launched in two systems, and a third will be added in 2008. Switched digital video’s biggest attraction is the fact that it can offer virtually unlimited channel capacity, given it delivers into the home only the channels being viewed, rather than the entire channel lineup.

“We have taken a tack with switched digital video of a look see,” Bowick said. With the three launched markets planned “we will see how it goes.”
The last thing I want to do is "shoot the messenger", as, I really do appreciate the information posted by jfranklin - any information, no matter how bad it is, is better than knowing nothing.

From reading other postings on AVSforum.com, it seems that people with TivoHD's that had cablecards installed earlier are getting the channel maps for all the HD channels. So, it's only the new customers that are not getting them. Obviously, this is hardly "fair", however, one wonders how long it may be for SDV to be rolled out in Hampton Roads. If it's a year down the road, it seems that not giving these channels to new cusotmers is hardly good customer support.

One other thing - it would seem to be in the best interest of Cox & it's customers to make sure that all the CSR's at Cox are aware of this, including the Tech's in the field, and, people at the various Cox "stores". I wasted a considerable amount of time trying to "fix" my TivoS3 to get the 4 channels that it seems it cannot receive.
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Old 11-24-2007, 10:38 AM   #736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tivowiz View Post
According to this article, Cox is only planning on going to SDV in 3 markets in 2008. Is Hampton Roads one of the markets?


The last thing I want to do is "shoot the messenger", as, I really do appreciate the information posted by jfranklin - any information, no matter how bad it is, is better than knowing nothing.

From reading other postings on AVSforum.com, it seems that people with TivoHD's that had cablecards installed earlier are getting the channel maps for all the HD channels. So, it's only the new customers that are not getting them. Obviously, this is hardly "fair", however, one wonders how long it may be for SDV to be rolled out in Hampton Roads. If it's a year down the road, it seems that not giving these channels to new cusotmers is hardly good customer support.

One other thing - it would seem to be in the best interest of Cox & it's customers to make sure that all the CSR's at Cox are aware of this, including the Tech's in the field, and, people at the various Cox "stores". I wasted a considerable amount of time trying to "fix" my TivoS3 to get the 4 channels that it seems it cannot receive.
The 3 markets are:
Fairfax VA, Phoenix AZ, Orange County CA
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6470803.html
Quote:
In Northern Virginia, where Cox has about 240,000 subscribers, the SDV system will go live systemwide in about 30 days, according to Kelso. Later this year, Cox plans to roll out the system in its Phoenix and Orange County, Calif., systems.
I don't think it's safe to assume only Orange County market will be deployed in 2008.

Another side effect of SDV deployment is digital simulcast channels will also be switched which means CableCard customers will revert back to analog versions of the channels:
http://www.cable360.net/ct/deploymen...ies/15098.html
Quote:
Cox plans on switching its digital simulcast channels in a number of its systems.
Here in Orange County CableCard customers are already being denied any new HD channel additions in preparation for SDV (they don't want to give us new channels now only to take them away in a few months when SDV rollout begins). I was told by a CSR any new SD or HD digital channel additions from now on will be under SDV umbrella and not available to UDCP CableCard customers.
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Last edited by moyekj : 11-24-2007 at 10:49 AM.
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Old 11-24-2007, 11:07 AM   #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tivowiz View Post
According to this article, Cox is only planning on going to SDV in 3 markets in 2008. Is Hampton Roads one of the markets?


The last thing I want to do is "shoot the messenger", as, I really do appreciate the information posted by jfranklin - any information, no matter how bad it is, is better than knowing nothing.
From what I know of the upgrade plans that article seems to be accurate. As for the three markets the message from moyekj seems to be right, but as I understand it Hampton Roads is getting SDV (at least in a few cities) in 2008. I admit, though, that it's been like pulling teeth on a croc to get the information that I do have. Most don't know what I'm talking about, and half of those that do don't actually understand it. If I do come up with any more detailed info that I can release I'll let you know.
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Old 11-24-2007, 11:47 AM   #738
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Thanks again for the info, keep "pulling those teeth".
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Old 11-24-2007, 11:50 AM   #739
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Jfranklin...
Thanks for all the info about COX and SDV. I live in OC Ca and have the channel mapping problem now. I had a Tech come out a he told me that the new HD channels are
not going to work with Cable Cards. Anybody have any info from Tivo??????
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Old 11-25-2007, 08:29 PM   #740
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MCards

Quote:
Originally Posted by marspinball View Post
Hi

I'm about to order a TIVO HD and would like to know if COX is currently installing single Mstream cards and if anyone is having issues with current installs??

Thanks.
I currently have an SA Mcard in my TivoHd. Its losing the Cox HD and regular Digital Channels. It works for all analog channels and local HD channels. Reboots don't help. Does anyone have any ideas?
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Old 11-25-2007, 11:45 PM   #741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj View Post
The 3 markets are:
Fairfax VA, Phoenix AZ, Orange County CA
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6470803.html
Hmmm, does this mean that the Tivo HD or S3 is not going to work in Phoenix in the near future when the SDV is implemented.

Seems a lot of folks are from Phoenix in this thread and they are going to be mighty put out.

At this point and after reading the last 10 pages of this thread it seems like waiting for Cox and the Tivo Software in the 8300HD is the better and cheaper path.

Or am I wrong?

Perry
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Old 11-25-2007, 11:52 PM   #742
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Hmmm, does this mean that the Tivo HD or S3 is not going to work in Phoenix in the near future when the SDV is implemented.

Seems a lot of folks are from Phoenix in this thread and they are going to be mighty put out.

At this point and after reading the last 10 pages of this thread it seems like waiting for Cox and the Tivo Software in the 8300HD is the better and cheaper path.

Or am I wrong?

Perry
Probably the most sensible thing to do at this point is to wait and see if the phantom "tuning resolver" ever materializes. I wouldn't hold your breath on getting Tivo software on the SA 8300HD any time soon. The Tivo release on Comcast Motorola platform is still not available to customers in the rollout markets and Cox/Tivo will be at least 6 months after Comcast/Tivo rollout begins in earnest, and that's probably on the Moto platform. So being conservative I would expect at least 1 more year for SA 8300/Tivo/Cox solution if all goes well... In the meantime it's looking like 2008 will be the year that SDV really becomes widespread and the pressure will really be on Tivo to get the "tuning resolver" out. Problem is they need the co-operation from cable to get it built and tested and I don't see cable companies going out of their way to help.
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Old 11-26-2007, 12:14 PM   #743
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We have Cox OKC. We ran into the "local HD and limited basic channels only" for 2 months. For the first month, rebooting the Tivo once a week fixed the problem. After ~30 days, it no longer worked. A tech came out and made a phone call, magically fixing the problem. At that point they claimed that the Cox computer system was trying to pair with our tv instead of the Tivo. 30 days later, we had the same problem. After 2 phone calls to Cox I was told that every time there is a firmware upgrade to the cable card it requires a signal refresh and that I can have that done through their automated system.
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Old 11-29-2007, 01:25 PM   #744
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New TiVo HD in Phoenix, AZ area

I got a new TiVo HD on the lifetime transfer deal. I tore into the entertainment center the other day to set it up, ran through guided setup, and ended up with just all the analog cable channels. I don't have an OTA antenna, as I'm just hooked to Cox cable, and I have not called Cox yet to come install a cable card. I wanted to be sure everything was all working correctly first.

So, as I was playing around with the new TiVo HD, I went into the channel setup menu and, nievely, clicked Channel Scan to see if it could find any clear QAM digital channels on cable. (Yes, now I know that this is for finding OTA digital signals, but I'm new to series 3 TiVos.) So it found a whole bunch of channels, all with a dash '-' in the number. For example, there's 8-2, 15-1, 15-2 (I think that's right, I'm not in front of the TiVo HD at the moment), and then a whole ton of them in the 60s and 70s (e.g. 68-1,68-2,...,68-18,...). If I tune to 8-2, 15-1, or 15-2, I get clear signals (interestingly enough, the TiVo HD says it's getting the signal over cable, even though channel numbers with a dash are OTA style channel designations). Note also that I only got digital channels for 8 and 15, and not for any of the other local channels (3, 5, 10, 12, ...). However, if I tune to any of the higher numbered "digital" channels that it found, (e.g. 68-x), the TiVo HD says it locks on a digital signal, but the screen is otherwise blank. And if I just manually select a channel that it didn't find, using the channel numbers I know are valid on my old SA cable box (e.g. 102), I get nothing. Nor with any of the channels in the 700s, some of which are supposed to be the HD broadcasts of some of the locals (I think).

I know I'm a newbie to all of this, so please help...

Questions:

1. Without an OTA antenna, why did the channel scan find anything at all?

2. Why for the channels it did find, which all use an OTA style number with a dash, does it indicate that these are channels it's receiving over cable?

3. Why did it find digital channels for only some of my local stations, and not others?

4. Why did it find so many in the 60s and 70s (e.g. 68-1, 68-2, ...)?

5. For the channels in the 60s and 70s, why does it say it's receiving a signal, yet I get no picture?

6. Are there any digital channels (SD or HD) on the Cox system in Phoenix that are clear-QAM (no cable card needed) that I should be able to receive before I get a cable card installed?

7. If the answer to #5 is yes, how do I get access to these channels?

8. When I went though guided setup on my old S1 TiVo, telling it I had an SA digital cable box, it then provided me with the complete lineup of channels, including all those I didn't subscribe to, and then I just had to go into "Channels you receive" and select those I get. But with the TiVo HD, unless I did something wrong during guided setup, it only gave me the analog channels in the list, and NONE of the digital channels (those over 100). Am I missing something here?

9. Does all this magically work itself out once I get a cable card?

10. Once a cable card is installed, will the channel numbers match that on the cable box that feeds my S1?

Basically, I'm very confused on how all this digital channel stuff works when it comes to the TiVo HD. I want to make sure everything is right and working before I have to pay Cox to roll a truck to do the cable card install (which, by the way, I think is absolutely rediculous, but that's a different rant altogether).

Can someone else who is more of a TiVo HD "expert" in the Phoenix area give me a little guidance?

TIA

- Jay
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Old 11-29-2007, 01:42 PM   #745
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They are Qam channels in the clear(Nonencrypted) The channel nubmbers will be fixed when the cable cards are installed. How much is Phoenix charging for the install? Omaha charges $30. That plus the fact I like to watch music choice on demand are the only things keeping me with the motorola dvr.
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Old 11-29-2007, 03:28 PM   #746
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Problems receiving channel 227 Ovation?

Edit: Well I found my own answer, turns out someone else found out this is one of the channels that went SDV...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...&&#post5468367

Oh well.

-----


I have Tivo HD with Cox multistream cable card. I have never been able to receive channel 227 Ovation even though I am supposed to get it. Cox can't find anything wrong. Do other people have channels they can't see for no apparent reason? I am on Cox in Fairfax county Virginia.

I have also had to have them 're-signal' the cable card, I stopped being able to receive any digital channels (except HD locals). Even this didn't bring channel 227 to work though.
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Old 11-29-2007, 05:57 PM   #747
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It's also possible that those "channels" are On-Demand as well as other QAM broadcast channels. Try going through them at nite & see if there is anything on them - it's fun to watch - you'll see people fastforwarding, pausing, etc on them. If you have patience, you can watch a movie "for free".
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Old 12-02-2007, 03:08 PM   #748
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Successful install in Phoenix

Ok, as a 'thank you' to everyone for all the help here, I wanted to post my successful experience here with Cox outside of Phoenix, and possibly what made it successful.

Before he got here:
* I installed the Tivo HD using the basic/extended cable that we'd used for years. For the record, I used a signal amplifier from Philips that was rated for 'digital cable' to split the signal, so I could also run it to the TV directly. I did the guided setup. As others have reported, Tivo HD worked, but did not get any HD stuff unless tuned manually, and even then didn't record. My best bet while waiting for the cablecard install (a week later, due to biz travel) was to just watch TV directly, which DID find the HD channels (a few were convenient, such as 12.1 for the HD version of 12, but the HD version of 5 was 106.2. Ya, explain THAT to your wife.) "Good thing we got Tivo HD to make that all better, honey."

* I forced updates on the Tivo so it would have the latest software. That took a while, and involved a few restarts. I can see how doing this DURING a cablecard install would be a real bummer. Fortunately, I had a week.

* I read the Tivo pages on the subject, including the troubleshooting ones, and the FAQ here that pointed to them. CRITICAL STEP. I also had the Tivo articles (the more in-depth install and the troubleshooting ones, see the CableCARD FAQ) PRINTED so I could show them to him easily.

* I set my expectations appropriately low. It probably wouldn't work. The guy wouldn't know anything.

The install itself

* He arrived on time. Friendly guy. "Ever done this before?" "I've done one other cablecard. I hear Tivo's are hard." "Gotcha, we'll do it together. Here, I printed out..." He was -relieved-, I think, that I knew so much, and we took an attitude of "let's figure it out together."

* "You need 2 cards, right?" "Well, it depends, did you bring Mcards?" He didn't know, so I went with "it's ok, the Tivo will tell us." (For the record, he brought 2 cards, both Mcards.) We inserted the first card, after recording the serial # off the back. The Tivo found it (give it a minute) and pointed out it's an Mcard. Yay me! Cheaper. He did go out of his way to ensure we only needed the one, he was definitely a good guy and wanted to do the right thing.

* Next step. WAIT. DON'T choose configure cable card 1. Just WAIT. Eventually you get the gray-bordered screen with the info he needs to call it in.

* As he radioed (ok, Nextel-ed) in to start that process, the screen flashed back to some other green Tivo screen. AACK. If this happens? WAIT. dont' choose anything. Just WAIT. Eventually we got another gray-bordered screen showing FIRMWARE UPGRADE. "Oh, yes, the internet stuff said this might happen. Let's just wait a bit." He was very content to wait, as long as it upped the chance it would work.

* Eventually, it fluttered through a few other green tivo-background-y screens, then eventually, got the gray-bordered screen with the card info again. Again, just WAITED. I suspect issues arise when people try to DO too much. NOW, he called it in to activate the card.

* THEN, I hit clear (note, the first time i've hit a key in about 15 minutes) and we did the test channels thing. Most worked, except for the high-numbered HD stuff. That is, I could get NBC HD (712) but not Discovery HD (723). So, reading through the stuff, this was likely either because:
- SA cards just take a while to get all their auth keys
- Tivo was somehow confused (unlikely, but hey)
- The auth wasn't right.
Since I needed it to work before he left, I went with "well, there's this step that says if we get a gray screen and "to be announced," that we need to re-do Guided Setup. (Which, I was planning to do later, but hey.) So I did that, all while he watched. It took about 15 minutes to download all the info. Also, he was not entirely clear about which channels I was supposed to get, so that took a few minutes (we figured out they gave me a couple months free of the "Movie" tier, as it turns out.) After the guided setup - voila! 723 worked.

You could SEE the relief on his face. "Hey, do you want to take these print outs with you?" "Could I, that'd be great!" (He had another install, though we weren't sure it was in a tivo.)

So - as to that last part - I suspect the card just needed the 15 minutes to get all the channel keys, and that the guided setup made no difference to that part, but it was sure reassuring to see EVERYTHING work before he left.

Total time: 40 minutes.

Now I'm going through the Season Pass Manager and 'upgrading' all the shows to HD. Oh, and I strongly recommend the expansion hard drive. After a week, we have 95 Tivo Suggestions.

Hope this helps...
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Old 12-03-2007, 04:34 PM   #749
will592
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 25
Hey Nightowl33,

Sounds like your experience was a lot like mine here in Phoenix. Can you tell me if you've had any problems yet with the 'gray screen' on cable card channels?
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Old 12-03-2007, 07:08 PM   #750
tim4umd
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4
Cox Las Vegas Cable Cards Mcard Tivo Hd

Just had my install completed today(12/3/2007)! Went great! Cox Las Vegas Cable said they only had Cable Card and not MCard when i set up my appointment. When they showed up they had MCard. So thats good a savings of $2 per box and the digital gateway fee per card. I have 2 boxes I had installed. Cost per box for install was $50. but now I pay less per month thanks to not having a cable box They installer said I would not get HBO, so I feared SDV or switched digital video. BUT i get all my channels. NO PPV or InDemand but hey. that is over rated anyways. I wanna watch my stuff on the day it premieres, not the day after. If any one has any questions feel free to post a reply to my message and I will reply
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