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Old 09-19-2009, 03:39 PM   #1771
richsadams
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Originally Posted by Code7135 View Post
Thanks Rich. (I was hopping you would reply.)

When a supervisor came over yesterday, he replaced my TiVo with their DVR and got all channels on his box. So he concluded that their programming is getting down my cable. But no luck with the TiVo.

He said he will gather more info and return again today. Thus far they have not blamed the TiVo (except to mention that TiVo does not supply full specs as to what the system input levels should be).

These techs have been willing to spend a lot of time on this, and have a very positive attitude, so I have no complaints there. But I guess my system is becoming a training exercise for them, since VIOS just came to this area.
Thanks again for your help. -Bob
That's interesting. It could indeed then be cable cards. There are horror stories around here where as many as a dozen were tried before the techs came up with two that would actually work...but that was with other cableco's. AFAIK there haven't been any posts about VZ cable cards being problematic.

It still seems unusual that your TiVo would be having any issues with a particular bandwidth and more likely something they're doing at the head end. I'm unfamiliar with the VZ boxes. Did they use the same cable cards in both? Based on other posts the Motorola boxes they use have enough architectural differences that it's sort of apples and oranges when comparing them to TiVo, but I'm wondering if they tried the exact same cards in both their DVR as well as your TiVo.

bkdtv's suggestion is a good one and worth a try. One other idea is to have a three-way call with TiVo. There are a number of posts where TiVo, the cableco and the owners have been able to spend some time on the phone together to resolve any problems. Again, I've never heard of anyone having to do that with FIOS, so you may be a pioneer!

In any case, best of luck and let us know how they resolve things for you.
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Old 09-19-2009, 03:45 PM   #1772
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I concur. It's most likely a combination of CableCARD authorization and account (package) configuration. Calling the Fiber Solutions Center (888-553-1555) should be the thing to do - an actual truck roll should be unnecessary.

http://www22.verizon.com/Residential...sOne/85220.htm
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Old 09-19-2009, 03:51 PM   #1773
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Hi Rich

That was a stickler. The VZ box did not use cable cards, but was a direct cable input. So it is a different architecture with no ready way to verify the cards (unless the cards are hidden inside).

Thus far VIOS has only used two M cards. When comcast tried to set it up with two S cards a few years ago, they could only get one channel working. Hence we only tried the M cards this time. If all else fails, maybe I will ask them to try S cards this time?

Thanks for your suggestions and help. I will let you know how it ends.
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Old 09-19-2009, 04:08 PM   #1774
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Hi Rich

That was a stickler. The VZ box did not use cable cards, but was a direct cable input. So it is a different architecture with no ready way to verify the cards (unless the cards are hidden inside).

Thus far VIOS has only used two M cards. When comcast tried to set it up with two S cards a few years ago, they could only get one channel working. Hence we only tried the M cards this time. If all else fails, maybe I will ask them to try S cards this time?

Thanks for your suggestions and help. I will let you know how it ends.
-Bob
IIRC someone posted that the VZ DVR's have a cable card inside.

I don't think VZ carries anything but "M" cards anymore, but you might get lucky. (Still think it has more to do with what they're doing at a higher level, but you never know.)

Thanks for keeping us up to date.
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Old 09-19-2009, 08:17 PM   #1775
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Another thing to try

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Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
IIRC someone posted that the VZ DVR's have a cable card inside.

I don't think VZ carries anything but "M" cards anymore, but you might get lucky. (Still think it has more to do with what they're doing at a higher level, but you never know.)

Thanks for keeping us up to date.
Rich,

VZ has two generations of boxes (plus the DTA's) in use. The 6xxx are grandfathered, waiver period boxes w/o cablecards. The 7xxx use M cards folks have pulled (against advice) and had them work in TiVos since VZ doesn't pair cards to equipment.

OP,

There are plenty of folks in Maryland who have successfully received all channels (I'm on the Howard/AA county system, but know folks in Montgomery who have it working as well). Which system are you on?

Have you tried posting on the VZ Direct forum at DLSR(http://www.dslreports.com/forum/vzdirect)? They only work Monday-Friday, but generally have been able to resolve issues that phone calls haven't. We had a problem on two QAMs at our Central Office and couldn't get the folks at the FSC to understand. It was fixed by "VZGustavo" in a few days.

Mark
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Old 09-20-2009, 01:18 AM   #1776
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Rich,VZ has two generations of boxes (plus the DTA's) in use. The 6xxx are grandfathered, waiver period boxes w/o cablecards. The 7xxx use M cards folks have pulled (against advice) and had them work in TiVos since VZ doesn't pair cards to equipment.
Ah, got it.
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Old 09-20-2009, 10:51 AM   #1777
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Mark -
Thanks for the link. I will try them if the next tech visit doesn't resolve this.I am down in Charles County. I think it is a relatively new area for VIOS.
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Old 09-20-2009, 11:09 AM   #1778
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It's "Fios", not "Vios".
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Old 09-20-2009, 11:13 AM   #1779
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It's "Fios", not "Vios".
I think the OP is trying to combine Verizon w/FIOS...VIOS. But you're right...for the folks here, FIOS s/b used so as not to confuse things.
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Old 09-20-2009, 01:56 PM   #1780
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I think the OP is trying to combine Verizon w/FIOS...VIOS.
Oh, I assumed that too. I just find it really annoying, and an unjustifiable acronym.
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Old 09-20-2009, 04:49 PM   #1781
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Sorry. I'm not that cleaver. (Also not a good speller or typist.)
Just a typo (and the "F" and "V" keys are close together when I am also holding down the caps key).

Thanks again for your help.
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Old 09-21-2009, 05:08 AM   #1782
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When a supervisor came over yesterday, he replaced my TiVo with their DVR and got all channels on his box. So he concluded that their programming is getting down my cable. But no luck with the TiVo.
One interesting test would be to take one of the newer Verizon DVRs (that are required to use CableCARDs) and first make sure it works as delivered. Then swap TiVo cards <--> Verizon DVR cards and see whether the problem follows the cards or not.
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Old 09-21-2009, 10:19 AM   #1783
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Thus far VIOS has only used two M cards. When comcast tried to set it up with two S cards a few years ago, they could only get one channel working. Hence we only tried the M cards this time. If all else fails, maybe I will ask them to try S cards this time?
Note if you have the older Series3 model, two CableCards (regardless of type) are always needed to support both tuners. Only the newer TivoHD support both tuners with a single M-CARD (must be in far right slot).

Quote:
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One interesting test would be to take one of the newer Verizon DVRs (that are required to use CableCARDs) and first make sure it works as delivered. Then swap TiVo cards <--> Verizon DVR cards and see whether the problem follows the cards or not.
I've been told the M-CARDs in the Motorola DVRs are paired, so that may not work. Have you confirmed otherwise?
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Old 09-21-2009, 10:46 AM   #1784
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Thanks Rich. (I was hopping you would reply.)

When a supervisor came over yesterday, he replaced my TiVo with their DVR and got all channels on his box. So he concluded that their programming is getting down my cable. But no luck with the TiVo.
Probably not the issue, but it did bite me when I first got my TiVoHD. Did you sanity-check that their DVR and your TiVo agree on the channel number for the missing channels?
(Ie, if you can't receive National Geographic on the TiVo but can on the FIOS box, are they tuned to the same channel number)


I happened to get my TiVoHD installed the same day FIOS did an unannounced line-up change which meant that the channels weren't where TiVo though they were. I thought it was a cable-card problem when it was really a line-up problem. (And when I figured it out I had to cancel the follow-up truck role they'd scheduled to bring out some replacement cable cards)
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Old 09-21-2009, 11:02 AM   #1785
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Probably not the issue, but it did bite me when I first got my TiVoHD. Did you sanity that their DVR and your TiVo agree on the channel number for the missing channels?
(Ie, if you can't receive National Geographic on the TiVo but can on the FIOS box, are they tuned to the same channel number)

I happened to get my TiVoHD installed the same day FIOS did an unannounced line-up change which meant that the channels weren't where TiVo though they were. I thought it was a cable-card problem when it was really a line-up problem. (And when I figured it out I had to cancel the follow-up truck role they'd scheduled to bring out some replacement cable cards)
Hadn't considered that one.
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Old 09-21-2009, 05:56 PM   #1786
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I've been told the M-CARDs in the Motorola DVRs are paired, so that may not work. Have you confirmed otherwise?
I don't have a Verizon DVR so I can't check. But if Motorola/Verizon/Comcast et al were smart they would put some sort of seal over the M-CARDs so they would know if you disturbed them.

Of course all the "company" DVRs violate the spirit if not the letter of the FCC regulations by coming from the factory with CableCARDs pre-installed. In addition, I'd bet that it's company policy to never de-mate the cards from the DVR. Is it still "separable" security if it comes mated and it's never separated?
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Old 09-21-2009, 07:23 PM   #1787
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I have Verizon Fios HD and my 3 TivoHDs work fine. I am using single cable cards. One is acting up now, but I don't think that is Verizon's issue.

Brad
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Old 09-21-2009, 10:48 PM   #1788
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It's covered and sealed, but...

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I don't have a Verizon DVR so I can't check. But if Motorola/Verizon/Comcast et al were smart they would put some sort of seal over the M-CARDs so they would know if you disturbed them.
I have a 7100 HD box (but not a FIOS DVR) although the case is the same. The card is under a plate with a foil seal. That hasn't stopped some people at BBR, who claim to have pulled it and found it worked.

You're right though, the card in these boxes isn't activated per se. They must be cross referenced in their inventory system. The activation process goes by the box number.
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:28 AM   #1789
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[quote=bkdtv;4363741]Verizon FiOS fully supports the Series3. (You don't get VOD/PPV, obviously.)

Not getting VOD or PPV = Verizon FiOS DOESN'T fully support the Series3.
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:34 AM   #1790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv View Post
Verizon FiOS fully supports the Series3. (You don't get VOD/PPV, obviously.)
Not getting VOD or PPV = Verizon FiOS DOESN'T fully support the Series3.
Hunh? Not sure what you are saying here. The S3 can't do VOD or PPV, so what is there to support?
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:38 AM   #1791
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Hunh? Not sure what you are saying here. The S3 can't do VOD or PPV, so what is there to support?
Exactly. No TiVo supports VOD or PPV. (Although you can call VZ or any cableco and order PPV events.)
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:54 AM   #1792
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Thumbs up FIOS Installation issue - RESOLVED

The issue I was having with FIOS not being able to find a block of channels was finally resolved! The Verizon folks spent a lot of time and effort on this, but it finally turned out to be something easily corrected (as you folks expected).

As understood by me from their explanation, the card reset involves them running a procedure in their office that has two parts: (Step 1) Initialization of the card, followed after a brief pause by (Step 2) downloading the channel information. The Series 3 TiVo that I have needs some additional time between these two steps. By breaking the procedure and allowing additional time between the steps, the reset worked correctly and my system now receives everything it should.

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions in this forum. It was comforting to know that I had this forum to fall back on.

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Old 09-24-2009, 12:44 PM   #1793
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The issue I was having with FIOS not being able to find a block of channels was finally resolved! The Verizon folks spent a lot of time and effort on this, but it finally turned out to be something easily corrected (as you folks expected).
Phew! Congrats Bob. Thanks for reporting the detailed info...it may help someone else in the future. Enjoy!
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Old 10-26-2009, 03:35 PM   #1794
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Attenuators didn't fix our problem, it was the WD Expander

We went down the road for weeks with Tivo and Verizon trying the attenuators and worrying about signal strength. The reality was that pulling the DVR Expander out of our TivoHD fixed all of our pixelation and rebooting problems. Why hasn't Tivo figured this out with their help desk scripts?
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Old 10-26-2009, 04:08 PM   #1795
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We went down the road for weeks with Tivo and Verizon trying the attenuators and worrying about signal strength. The reality was that pulling the DVR Expander out of our TivoHD fixed all of our pixelation and rebooting problems. Why hasn't Tivo figured this out with their help desk scripts?
Per numerous posts on this forum, the problems with FIOS were taken care of back in July with the release of v11.0d. Everyone (on this thread, others as well as the main thread on the subject) was told to remove any attenuation at that time. IIRC that's what TiVo was telling folks as well.

There are also numerous posts on the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ discussing problems with the WD My DVR Expanders and how to diagnose the issues and/or remove them.

If anyone at TiVo was instructing you to do anything different recently, you're right, whoever you talked to wasn't up to speed. You can usually depend on folks here to help out whenever there's a problem...of course you sometimes get what you pay for.

In any case, it's good to hear that you've figured things out. It's quite possible that the hard drive in the WD My DVR Expander enclosure is still good. More here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...44#post7553444

Quote:
Quite a few recent reports have indicated that the WD My DVR Expanders are failing because something is going south in the enclosure, not with the actual hard drive itself. Several folks have had success by removing the hard drive from the enclosure and installing it in a new one (such as the recommended Antec MX-1). Once re-connected life is good again. Something to keep in mind.


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Old 10-26-2009, 04:17 PM   #1796
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I now see that 11.0d solved the problems. The Community got me to pull the Expander out finally. It's just that when I searched Fios on the board most of the results were attenuator focused. The problems started back in the Spring.

I saw that regarding the drive. I've now disassociated the Expander from the Tivo HD and lost all of the shows. If I pull the drive from the Expander and put it in a 3rd party enclosure will Tivo accept it? Or, do I need to first plug the Expander back in and then turn off the Tivo and stuff the drive into a 3rd party enclosure?

This Tivo is thousands of miles away at a family member's home so I might just go the route of buying a new 1 TB expander from them and an SIIG cable. Is the 1 TB Expander proving to be more reliable than the 500 GB? Has WD made any more to changing out the faulty components of the older 500 GB units? I bought the first 500 GB Expander when they first came to market.
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Old 10-26-2009, 04:44 PM   #1797
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I now see that 11.0d solved the problems. The Community got me to pull the Expander out finally. It's just that when I searched Fios on the board most of the results were attenuator focused. The problems started back in the Spring.

I saw that regarding the drive. I've now disassociated the Expander from the Tivo HD and lost all of the shows. If I pull the drive from the Expander and put it in a 3rd party enclosure will Tivo accept it? Or, do I need to first plug the Expander back in and then turn off the Tivo and stuff the drive into a 3rd party enclosure?

This Tivo is thousands of miles away at a family member's home so I might just go the route of buying a new 1 TB expander from them and an SIIG cable. Is the 1 TB Expander proving to be more reliable than the 500 GB? Has WD made any more to changing out the faulty components of the older 500 GB units? I bought the first 500 GB Expander when they first came to market.
It looks like the 500GB My DVR Expanders are often failing at about 12 to 18 months (just outside of the 1 year warranty). Several people have had success with continuing to use the actual drive by placing it in a new enclosure (recommended enclosures can be found in the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ).

TiVo recognizes eSATA drives by the exact model number so it really doesn't matter what enclosure it's in. Placing the actual drive in a new enclosure could result in your drive being serviceable once again. Connecting the bare drive to a PC and running a diagnostic program like the free WD Lifeguard could tell you if the drive is okay or not.

Based on various posts about communications with WD, they don't seem very forthcoming about their products or if they've made any changes to them.

The WD 1TB My DVR Expander hasn't been out but a few months now so it's hard to say how the long-term reliability will be. AFAIK no one has reported any issues with them so far.
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Old 10-26-2009, 08:19 PM   #1798
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M-Cards 2 needed for old Series 3, 1 for New Series 3

Hi Everyone,

I am new to this site so please forgive the redundency on the questions. I currentl have V-Fios and their DVR. I am in the market to buy a Tivo. I've read that I need 2 m-cards if I have an old series 3 tivo, and only 1 m-card if new series 3. I am current looking at 2 TIVO boxes to buy. One is a ser.3 model number TCD648250B Lifetime 179 HD Hrs 1TB WD Ext, and the other is the TCD652160 with an internal expanded memory, and comparable offerings. I come to understand the TCD648250B is a better box, or is it(?), but what is also important to me is the number of m-cards required, since I will be spending good money on either. How many m-cards is required in the two models?

I would appreciate any advise.

Thank you all.

Norm
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Old 10-26-2009, 08:47 PM   #1799
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Hi Everyone,

I am new to this site so please forgive the redundency on the questions. I currentl have V-Fios and their DVR. I am in the market to buy a Tivo. I've read that I need 2 m-cards if I have an old series 3 tivo, and only 1 m-card if new series 3. I am current looking at 2 TIVO boxes to buy. One is a ser.3 model number TCD648250B Lifetime 179 HD Hrs 1TB WD Ext, and the other is the TCD652160 with an internal expanded memory, and comparable offerings. I come to understand the TCD648250B is a better box, or is it(?), but what is also important to me is the number of m-cards required, since I will be spending good money on either. How many m-cards is required in the two models?

I would appreciate any advise.

Thank you all.

Norm
Welcome to the forum. Although all of the TiVo Hi-def boxes are part of the Series 3 family, here is how they are referred to on the forum:


TiVo Series3 (TCD648250B - the "original" HD TiVo)


TiVo HD (TCD652160)


TiVo HDXL (TCD658000)

The differences between the three models can be found on these two threads:

TiVo Series3 : http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=315791

TiVo HD/HDXL: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=419994

The original Series3 requires two cable cards (either "S", single-stream or "M" multi-stream) to operate both tuners. TiVo HD and HDXL's only require one "M" cable card. Cable cards are part of VZ FIOS service charges. I think our first one is free and the other two are $3.49 ea./month.

Each unit has pluses and minuses. We have both and can recommend either. If I were to buy another one I'd probably opt for another of the original Series3 models.

All of our TiVo's work very well w/FIOS. There are two things that are different from the VZ DVR. No VOD. Pay-per-view is not available via a TiVo menu but you can order it on line or call VZ and schedule a show and set TiVo to record it by setting up a manual recording. We don't miss VOD because we have access to streaming Amazon VOD, Netflix and now Blockbuster videos...plus all of the rest of the various broadband features if you have it hooked up to your network.

You can visit the TiVo Series3 HDTV DVR thread for more information on all things TiVo:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...splay.php?f=51
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Old 10-26-2009, 10:16 PM   #1800
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Rich - Can you clarify

Thanks Rich for the picture definition and the other relevant threads on this site. Can I ask for a clarification on the comment: "I think our first one is free and the other two are $3.49 ea./month." Which one is free and which two are $3.49? Or are you saying the first card, regardless of "S" or "M" is free and the second one is $3.40. I'm inclined to buy the series 3, but would like to pay monthly 1 x $3.49 instead of 2 x $3.49. Also, it appears on this site the installation is a crap shoot regarding service charges. Some have been dinged hard while others thought they were going to pay but end up getting a free service call.

Thanks again.
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