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Old 12-29-2008, 06:37 PM   #1381
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You can always go for the FIOS broadband now and fuss over the TV later - that's what I did. At least that will get the ONT infrastructure in place - you can add the TV and CableCARDS/STB later and cancel within 14 days if you're not happy. The good news is that you can use the existing cabling. The bad news is if you need to cancel dealing with Verizon billing is another nightmare in itself.

I understand the WAF - been there done that. I can say that, despite some rare PQ issues, I don't regret making the move from Cablevision for a nanosecond.
Good idea regarding the broadband, then TV installation, baby steps and all. I might just go that route.

I hear you about VZ's billing dept. We've had VZ Cell phones for a while now and are still trying to get them to change our home address...it's been over a year now. Sheesh!

Thanks for the tip(s)!
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Old 12-29-2008, 06:40 PM   #1382
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It's not weird. He's not on Fios. You're talking Fios, he's talking Comcast.
D'oh!
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Old 12-29-2008, 09:37 PM   #1383
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D'oh!
Double D'oh.

I assumed he was talking about Verizon, since that what I was responding about. I forgot that Rich didn't have FiOS yet.
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Old 12-30-2008, 06:34 AM   #1384
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Finally up and running with Fios, but only after a 9 hour installation! The installer was a very nice guy but completely inept and was in way over his head. He told me all he was given were two days of training. I was helping up the entire time. Other techs had to come and help him from time to time. He arrived at around 10 AM and we didn't even begin with the cable cards until around 6 PM! I could go on and on but I won't. The important thing is everything finally worked in the end, well sort of.

The cable card installation went well, although the tech had to call up again to inquire why one of my Tivo's were only picking up Verizon's local package only. I restarted the Tivo at the same time Verizon sent a hit to the cards. That Tivo started to work right after, so I'm not sure what exactly did it, but I'm not worrying. On a side note, the installer told me that in training they were taught about cablecards so quickly, because they said the odds of installing them were very slim. Of course, this guys first installation are cablecards! But I digress...

I originally asked for a Cat5 line but realized that what I thought was the ONT outside my building (which serviced about 20 apartments) was really more of a Super ONT. From that box outside, a direct fiber line would be brought into each apartment. From there, a separate ONT box along with battery backup would be installed. Apparently this is something pretty new to Fios, or at least in my area. I had both boxes installed on the top shelf of my hall closet. I had to hide them from view and minimize the amount of space they took up so my wife wouldn't kick me out of the house.

The only main issue that I ran into was trying to bridge the Actiontek. I walked through the entire setup from a thread on DSL Reports. My DLink wouldn't pick up an IP address. I was thinking maybe the range of IPs the DLink used were the same as the Actointek, messed around with the ranges, etc. It got to the point where I had to reset the Actiontek and start over, which I did, to no avail. Finally, I gave up, was going to just use the Actiontek. At that point, I couldn't even access the Actiontek to change settings. I called up Verizon where I was basically chastised for attempting to bridge the Actiontek. I had to wait two hours for the Actiontek to work because I attempted to use another device and pick up an IP. Ended up waiting until this morning, had to reset the router, but finally the Actiontek is working again. I really have no clue what's going on.

Big question, if I'm just using the net for Xbox Live, Netflix streaming, video chat, the occasional bit torrent transfer, will the Actiontek be ok? I keep reading about this NAT issue and I'm wondering if it really applies to me...
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Old 12-30-2008, 08:10 AM   #1385
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Ok, apparently the Xbox 360 and Fios have major issues. I have to find out how to bridge the Actiontek to my DLink...
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Old 12-30-2008, 08:48 AM   #1386
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Ok, apparently the Xbox 360 and Fios have major issues. I have to find out how to bridge the Actiontek to my DLink...
Errm, not for nothing, but I would caution you not to believe everything you read - unless you read it here, of course

I'm hanging an XBox, a Wii, 10 computers, 2 FIOS STBs and 4 TiVos off my Actiontec while running torrents out the wazoo and piggybacking a Linksys WRT300N. No real problems - I do reboot the Actiontec about once a week.

There's nothing special you need to do to piggyback your DLink off the Actiontec. Look back to page 45 of this thread for some details.

And relax.
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:28 AM   #1387
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I had to wait two hours for the Actiontek to work because I attempted to use another device and pick up an IP. Ended up waiting until this morning, had to reset the router, but finally the Actiontek is working again. I really have no clue what's going on.
While the Actiontek is a pretty crappy router (from a power user point of view), rocko is right, everything should work fine. My neighbor does bittorrent and xbox live with no problems with the Actiontek.

But that's not why I'm replying. The leases that the DHCP system that FIOS uses are ridiculous. Once the system hands out an IP on your connection it will not supply another until it times out or you get FIOS tech support to break the lease. Some agents know this and will do it as a troubleshooting step, some don't. You're better off requesting that they break the lease if you can't get the Actiontek to grab an IP.
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:32 AM   #1388
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Good idea regarding the broadband, then TV installation, baby steps and all. I might just go that route.

I hear you about VZ's billing dept. We've had VZ Cell phones for a while now and are still trying to get them to change our home address...it's been over a year now. Sheesh!

Thanks for the tip(s)!
I never had problems with Verizon for either traditional phone service, or when I had them for cellular service, but you sure hear a lot of people bitch about them on the forums. Definitely one of those your mileage may vary things.

One drawback to the idea of stepping in one service at a time is you give up some deep discounts on the services if you don't bundle, don't you?

I switched from a perfectly fine TWC TV/Internet combo to FIOS six weeks ago and couldn't be happier. My internet is twice fast (and pretty much really is in terms of download speeds) and the PQ on TV is far less compressed, plus I have three times as many channels in HD, and three times as many premium movie channels, FOR LESS MONEY.

Very very pleased, and absolutely no issues with the TiVO Series 3 install, even though my installer had never done one before. The only glitch of the day was they didn't have the S-Cards in stock at his local office when he rolled to my house, so he installed the ONT and internet while we waited for an installer from another area to hand deliver the two cards to my house. Now that's impressive.
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:41 AM   #1389
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No real problems - I do reboot the Actiontec about once a week.
From my point of view, THAT'S a real, and big, problem. I've been using routers in the house for over a decade; I've gone through a few different brands and models, but without exception, be it D-Link, Netgear, of Linksys, all of my routers would never require a reboot, even for a year at a time unless I wanted to change a setting or upgrade firmware that required a reboot.

If you're rebooting once per week for stability or some such reason, that seems like an unreasonably short up time for a consumer level device, which should pretty much be plug in and forget, just like any other consumer appliance.
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:44 AM   #1390
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From my point of view, THAT'S a real, and big, problem. I've been using routers in the house for over a decade; I've gone through a few different brands and models, but without exception, be it D-Link, Netgear, of Linksys, all of my routers would never require a reboot, even for a year at a time unless I wanted to change a setting or upgrade firmware that required a reboot.

If you're rebooting once per week for stability or some such reason, that seems like an unreasonably short up time for a consumer level device, which should pretty much be plug in and forget, just like any other consumer appliance.
I do it out of habit, not necessity. That comment was probably irrelevant for the purpose of this conversation.
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:52 AM   #1391
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I don't know why rocko is rebooting once a week, but I don't think I've ever had to in two years.

The only thing I'll criticize my Actiontec for is refusing to talk to my Eee PC wirelessly, but I'm not sure which device is at fault there.
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Old 12-30-2008, 10:05 AM   #1392
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IIRC, the actiontec router has an undersized NAT table. And once it is full it causes issues (requiring a reboot). This isn't a problem for normal web browsing, but some uses (such as torrents) will fill up the NAT table quickly.
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Old 12-30-2008, 10:09 AM   #1393
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One drawback to the idea of stepping in one service at a time is you give up some deep discounts on the services if you don't bundle, don't you?
Thanks for the advice and the positive VZ feedback. I thought about the bundling bit later...they offer phone/broadband/TV for $99 here (and a little more if you want faster broadband, HBO, etc.) All-in-all it would still be less than Comcast. So yes, I'm pretty sure if I just went with broadband the price wouldn't be as good. I'll probably dive in with both feet...soon.

What broadband speed did you end up with? If you had it to do again, would you go with a faster or slower connection? TIA!
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Old 12-30-2008, 11:14 AM   #1394
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Errm, not for nothing, but I would caution you not to believe everything you read - unless you read it here, of course

I'm hanging an XBox, a Wii, 10 computers, 2 FIOS STBs and 4 TiVos off my Actiontec while running torrents out the wazoo and piggybacking a Linksys WRT300N. No real problems - I do reboot the Actiontec about once a week.

There's nothing special you need to do to piggyback your DLink off the Actiontec. Look back to page 45 of this thread for some details.

And relax.
I ended up hardwiring my Xbox 360 to the Actiontech and it runs much better now.

I still want to bridge the Actiontec to my DLink. I think the DLink uses the same IP addresses at the Actiontec. To access the DLink I would use 192.168.0.1 while the Actiontec is 192.168.1.1. I think they both use the same number system for devices though. I tried to change them on my DLink but nothing seemed to work and then the entire Actiontec shut down on me!
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Old 12-30-2008, 11:17 AM   #1395
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Thanks for the advice and the positive VZ feedback. I thought about the bundling bit later...they offer phone/broadband/TV for $99 here (and a little more if you want faster broadband, HBO, etc.) All-in-all it would still be less than Comcast. So yes, I'm pretty sure if I just went with broadband the price wouldn't be as good. I'll probably dive in with both feet...soon.
Be careful to compare apples to apples and also make sure you factor in taxes. My cable and FIOS bills were pretty close once I included boxes, unlimited phone, cable cards, etc and got the cable co. to give me an aggressive quote and included tax. However I went for FIOS for the better picture and higher confidence in Verizon rather than Cox on phone service.

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Old 12-30-2008, 11:45 AM   #1396
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What broadband speed did you end up with? If you had it to do again, would you go with a faster or slower connection? TIA!
With Time Warner, I had the 10/2 service. FIOS I opted for the 20/5 service, which seemed like the best compromise on speed for torrents/downloads vs price. I'm considering doing more online backups of large amounts of data, and even 5 up is pretty intolerable for that, so I'm considering upping to the 20/20. Of course, if I could even remotely justify the huge premium for the 50 down service, I'd jump on it, but it's a $100/mo premium for that extra speed, and I just can't justify it. It would be sweet, though.

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Be careful to compare apples to apples and also make sure you factor in taxes. My cable and FIOS bills were pretty close once I included boxes, unlimited phone, cable cards, etc and got the cable co. to give me an aggressive quote and included tax. However I went for FIOS for the better picture and higher confidence in Verizon rather than Cox on phone service.
Good advice to make sure you're comparing comparable services. As stated earlier, my TV/Internet package, whether you include taxes or not, is less than Time Warner was on a dollar basis, and FIOS is giving me so much more for that (faster internet, better picture quality, and a ton more HD and premium movie channels).

It's pretty easy for the richsadams to run through the package pricing tool on FIOS website to get a comparison. Just make sure to take into account that every television will require a FIOS STB or DVR unless you have CableCard ready TiVos or TVs, and you'll have to account for that as Tim points out. My only gripe with FIOS' pricing is to get this good deal requires the 1 year contract with cancellation fee crap (similar to cellphone contracts), while Time Warner never required a contract. Since I don't plan on canceling, not a real concern, but another pricing consideration to consider when comparing.
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Old 12-30-2008, 12:08 PM   #1397
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I ended up hardwiring my Xbox 360 to the Actiontech and it runs much better now.

I still want to bridge the Actiontec to my DLink. I think the DLink uses the same IP addresses at the Actiontec. To access the DLink I would use 192.168.0.1 while the Actiontec is 192.168.1.1. I think they both use the same number system for devices though. I tried to change them on my DLink but nothing seemed to work and then the entire Actiontec shut down on me!
You should be able to set your DLink to something like:
IP address: 192.168.1.2
DNS: 192.168.1.1
Subnet: 255.255.255.0

Turn off DHCP on the DLink and you should be good to go. Remember to connect the DLink using a LAN port, not the WAN port. If you want to use the DLink for wireless access turn off the wireless on the Actiontec.
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Old 12-30-2008, 12:32 PM   #1398
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You should be able to set your DLink to something like:
IP address: 192.168.1.2
DNS: 192.168.1.1
Subnet: 255.255.255.0

Turn off DHCP on the DLink and you should be good to go. Remember to connect the DLink using a LAN port, not the WAN port. If you want to use the DLink for wireless access turn off the wireless on the Actiontec.
So connect LAN on the Actiontek to the Internet (Wan) port on the DLink?
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Old 12-30-2008, 12:54 PM   #1399
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So connect LAN on the Actiontek to the Internet (Wan) port on the DLink?
No. Connect LAN to LAN.
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Old 12-30-2008, 03:48 PM   #1400
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The leases that the DHCP system that FIOS uses are ridiculous. Once the system hands out an IP on your connection it will not supply another until it times out or you get FIOS tech support to break the lease. Some agents know this and will do it as a troubleshooting step, some don't. You're better off requesting that they break the lease if you can't get the Actiontek to grab an IP.
In my experience Verizon's system will honor a DHCP release. So if you accidentally grabbed an IP address with one router, going into its config and hitting DHCP release will cause their DHCP server to drop the lease. Then your other router will be able to get a new DHCP lease without involving Verizon tech support.
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Old 12-30-2008, 04:54 PM   #1401
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In my experience Verizon's system will honor a DHCP release. So if you accidentally grabbed an IP address with one router, going into its config and hitting DHCP release will cause their DHCP server to drop the lease. Then your other router will be able to get a new DHCP lease without involving Verizon tech support.
You can do a release but, in my experience, the following renew will get you the address you had before.
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Old 12-30-2008, 08:00 PM   #1402
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You can do a release but, in my experience, the following renew will get you the address you had before.
That shouldn't be a problem (if it's even the case) in the context of the issue of trying to switch from the Verizon provided router to your own. Doesn't matter what public ip address you get on the new router, as long as your recognized by Verizon's routers upstream.

Another option I didn't see anyone mention for the original person with the issue was you should be able to "clone" the MAC address of the Verizon provided router in your own router. Look around in your settings for that feature. Then any connection back to the network, Verizon will just think you're the router they provided to you.
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Old 12-30-2008, 08:20 PM   #1403
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In my experience Verizon's system will honor a DHCP release. So if you accidentally grabbed an IP address with one router, going into its config and hitting DHCP release will cause their DHCP server to drop the lease. Then your other router will be able to get a new DHCP lease without involving Verizon tech support.
Ah, yes. I have seen this but only in one specific situation. Only their CrAptiontek (I think I'll copyright that ) can do it.

I've had several different Linksys routers (all with DDWRT), and my laptop hooked up directly to the FIOS, none of them could do a release. That is to say, we could send the command, but trying to switch to another device, the new device would not be able to pull an IP.

When I have to troubleshoot with FIOS I put the CrAptiontek in as the primary router. When we're done and my internet is working again I can go in and do a release on the CrAptiontek and switch back to my Linksys. I've done that many times, and it does work.

I suppose it could be a minor bug in DDWRT.... but then that doesn't explain why XP can't release it.

Have you done the release with anything other than the CrAptiontek?
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Old 12-30-2008, 10:39 PM   #1404
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You should be able to set your DLink to something like:
IP address: 192.168.1.2
DNS: 192.168.1.1
Subnet: 255.255.255.0

Turn off DHCP on the DLink and you should be good to go. Remember to connect the DLink using a LAN port, not the WAN port. If you want to use the DLink for wireless access turn off the wireless on the Actiontec.
Ok, so I should redo the how to make the Actiontec a bridge via these instructions:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r176...network-bridge

Then change the IP address of my Dlink. I think the DNS and Subnet are the same. Do I then reboot both routers or just plug them together (via both LAN ports)? Do I plug my hardwire connections into the DLink then? I don't have to mess around with renew or release of IP addresses? I just don't want to have to call up Verizon again because my router locked me out again. That was not fun...

After what I did last time, I wish I had step by step instructions with accompanying graphics to match. LOL...
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Old 12-31-2008, 07:08 AM   #1405
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I find the easiest way to use my Actiontec and Dlink DGL4500 together is to have the Actiontec connected to the ONT. That way if there are ever any problems, it's already connected to the ONT since FIOS typically won't trobleshoot anything if you don't have the Actiontec connected.
Then connect the WAN port of the DLINK to a LAN port on the Actiontec.
Then assign a DMZ to the IP address that the Actiontec gives the DLINk. Mine is 192.168.1.2.
And then my 40 devices are all connected to my Dlink DGL4500. The only FIOS device connected to the Actiontec is my HD STB I use for HD VOD, but that is connected with MoCA over the coaxial cable.
My Dlink assigns IP addressess to everything but the FIOS STB. I've used an IP range of 221.214.xx.xxx for over 10 years, but it's also easier for me to remember.

I have zero problems this way. Never a need to reboot the Actiontec or the Dlink, even with three VUDU boxes using P2P constantly uploading 24/7. Zero problems gaming with my three Xbox 360s. Zero problems with my TiVos. Zero problems with me having over 1TB of traffic every month. No reboots needed. I get my full 50mbs down and 20mbs up. I've been using this setup for over a year now. Previously with a DGL4300. It has no problems.
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Old 12-31-2008, 08:14 AM   #1406
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Ok, so I should redo the how to make the Actiontec a bridge via these instructions:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r176...network-bridge

Then change the IP address of my Dlink. I think the DNS and Subnet are the same. Do I then reboot both routers or just plug them together (via both LAN ports)? Do I plug my hardwire connections into the DLink then? I don't have to mess around with renew or release of IP addresses? I just don't want to have to call up Verizon again because my router locked me out again. That was not fun...

After what I did last time, I wish I had step by step instructions with accompanying graphics to match. LOL...
I don't remember doing anything special to configure the Actiontec for bridge mode. I would ignore that DSLReports article for now.

Otherwise, I have it set up like Aaronwt. Instead of creating a DMZ on the DLink I just turn off the firewall - the firewall is turned on on the Actiontec. I also connect LAN port to LAN port - I found problems connecting to the DLink WAN port - but whatever works. Actually, now that I look at it again I have both the WAN port and a LAN port connected
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Old 12-31-2008, 09:09 AM   #1407
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I don't remember doing anything special to configure the Actiontec for bridge mode. I would ignore that DSLReports article for now.

Otherwise, I have it set up like Aaronwt. Instead of creating a DMZ on the DLink I just turn off the firewall - the firewall is turned on on the Actiontec. I also connect LAN port to LAN port - I found problems connecting to the DLink WAN port - but whatever works. Actually, now that I look at it again I have both the WAN port and a LAN port connected
So I don't have to configure the Actiontec at all? Just turn off the firewall on the Dlink and connect Lan to Lan? Wouldn't this still leave the small Nat table?
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Old 12-31-2008, 09:23 AM   #1408
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So I don't have to configure the Actiontec at all? Just turn off the firewall on the Dlink and connect Lan to Lan? Wouldn't this still leave the small Nat table?
Yes. If the Actiontec is doing the NAT/DHCP. But, give it a try. I'm pretty sure Actiontec has an updated firmware since all this talk of their NAT table issues. Perhaps they resolved it. I know many people who love the actiontec and have no problems with it.

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Old 12-31-2008, 10:14 AM   #1409
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Yes. If the Actiontec is doing the NAT/DHCP. But, give it a try. I'm pretty sure Actiontec has an updated firmware since all this talk of their NAT table issues. Perhaps they resolved it. I know many people who love the actiontec and have no problems with it.

BOb
I have yet to have any NAT problems. My only actiontec log entries are ip renewals. And my 3 VUDU boxes are running P2P 24/7. And even when I've used UTorrent and run it for several days straight, no problems. No need for a reboot.
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Old 12-31-2008, 01:46 PM   #1410
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Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
Thanks very much for the report...very encouraging!

How is your PQ? Are you seeing any issues?

Thanks again, enjoy and happy New Year!
Just an update to my earlier posts. After having FiOS a couple of days, I did notice the pixelation and audio dropouts, but only on ESPNHD with the TiVo.

I ordered the attenuator pack from Smarthome, and put a -20 attenuator on the TiVo coax. That dropped the signal strength and signal to noise ratio, and has solved that issue.

Very happy camper here. And I was able to disconnect Comcast right at the end of a billing period. Sweet.
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