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Old 12-10-2008, 07:04 AM   #1291
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First off, I want to use my own router and forego the Actiontec router that Verizon provides. So my understanding is that I will need to request that Verizon reconfigures the ONT to pass data through the ethernet interface instead of the MoCA (coax) interface, which is apparently the default. Once I've done that, I can set aside the Actiontec router and hook up the ONT's ethernet interface to the WAN port of pretty much any modern router I choose and, at least for internet connectivity, it should "just work". Is that correct? And if all I wanted was internet and didn't care to have TV, I would be done, right?
Yes, exactly. The ONT hand-off is an RJ45 ethernet jack using DHCP. Any router that can act as a DHCP client will work (and that's almost any router I can think of).

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So now let's throw TV into the mix. For TV, I would normally require both a video signal as well as a data signal. The latter would be for features such as guide data, on-demand, and PPV, which would all be encapsulated in an STB. However, I don't plan on getting any Verizon STB's and instead will be feeding all TV signals to either an S3 or a THD. Given that, do I have to worry about supplying a data signal? I would think I would just be able to connect the ONT's MoCA interface to a coax splitter and from there, feed individual coax lines to my various S3 and THD units throughout the house.
Again exactly correct.

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So in summary, what I want to do is provide FiOS internet and TV to my house, with the caveats that I want to provide my own router and I don't believe that I require data for TV. Given that, I believe the key is simply to ensure that Verizon re-configures the ONT to pass data through its ethernet interface instead of its MoCA interface. After that, I simply connect my own router to the ONT's ethernet interface and I connect my S3's/THD's to the ONT's MoCA interface. Does that sound right? Is it really that simple?
Yep, its that simple...that's how I am running: Cisco ASA as my border device (connected to ONT), using Tivo HD (no VZ STB's)

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Second, do I have any choice over where Verizon will install the ONT (and accompanying BBU)? Ideally, I'd like it installed in the house close to my structured wiring centre, but much of what I've read seems to indicate that it needs to be installed outside of the house so that Verizon techs can gain access to it whenever they want.
I've read that if you have pre-drilled the required (large) hole from the outside to the inside for the fiber cable/connector, that its a much easier sell to get the VZ installer to put it inside. Some people have had no problem getting installed inside, in other cases they have protested they won't have access unless someone is home; seems to be a YMMV. If you have everything ready, including space for them to install their stuff inside I would imagine it will be smooth sailing.

In terms of switching from MoCA to ethernet - its best to just let the installer hook it up with MoCA and the Actiontec router and then once everything is tested/working make the switch yourself (after they have left). Keep in mind that if you ever have problems you may have to put the Actiontec back for VZ for troubleshooting purposes.
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Old 12-10-2008, 07:29 AM   #1292
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You can also just use the FIOS ActionTec or new Westell modem they are using. And then just connect you own router to one of the ports on the FIOS router and set up a DMZ on that port. That way if there are any problems you don't have to mess around with reconnecting the FIOS supplied router since FIOS typically will not trouble shoot anything when their router is not connected.
This is how I have my FIOS connection setup with my DLINK DGL4500 router and previously with my DGL4300 router. I have had no problems doing it this way. And on the couple of occasions when there was a problem with the ONT. They were able to trouble shoot it right away since I had my ActionTec already connected to the ONT.
I've had it connected this way for over a year now.For the first few months of service I had my own router connected to the ONT and there were a few times that there were problems. But they would not look at anything until I connected the Actiontec directly to the ONT which was a pain to do. So since then I just leave the Actiontec connected to the ONT with my router on a DMZ. This setup has worked perfectly. And I download around 1TB every month. No problems and no need to ever reboot any of the routers.
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Old 12-17-2008, 07:52 PM   #1293
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Question TivoHD and Fios STB connection

I just made the switch from Comcast to FIOS. The install went well, even tho it was the tech's first adventure with a Tivo setup.

my question: is it possible to split the signal from a FIOS STB into a Tivo HD and the TV and get the same functionality I had with the Comcast setup? (there were no boxes or cablecards on this unit)

Or, should I exchange the STB for a cablecard? Hopefully an Multistream card.

Our S3 does have 2 cable cards - we had been transferring HD shows between the THD and the S3 - we can still do that. I'm trying to get rid of a remote or three.

Thanks,

Don
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Old 12-17-2008, 07:59 PM   #1294
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my question: is it possible to split the signal from a FIOS STB into a Tivo HD and the TV and get the same functionality I had with the Comcast setup? (there were no boxes or cablecards on this unit)
No, the S3 units will only record from an RF signal (NTSC or ATSC). No set top box outputs ATSC and the old channel 3 RF would look terrible. But why would you want to still bother using a FIOS STB? With cablecards you've no need for an STB at all (excepting video on demand).
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:52 AM   #1295
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my question: is it possible to split the signal from a FIOS STB into a Tivo HD and the TV and get the same functionality I had with the Comcast setup? (there were no boxes or cablecards on this unit)
You can't put a FIOS STB in front of the TiVo, like wkearney99 said, the TiVoHD needs the RF signal not the output of another STB.


If you do want to use a FIOS STB in addition to your TiVo, presumably for PPV or On Demand programmming here how you could do that. Split the FIOS coax between the wall and the TiVoHD. Then run the output of the splitter to both the TiVoHD and to a FIOS STB. Then hook each box up to different inputs on your TV.

When you want to use the FIOS STB or TiVoHD you'd switch to the appropriate input on the TV.

(This setup doesn't bother the TiVoHD. It still has an unaltered RF feed from FIOS and can record scheduled items no matter what you're doing with the FIOS STB)
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:05 AM   #1296
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Jonathan's right on the mark with that advice.

Bear in mind, the series 3 Tivos (S3 and TivoHD) will not record from anything other than an RF signal. They will not record from composite, component, svideo or HDMI. They can record manually from an RF channel. If you can convert a signal to RF then you could set up a manual recording on from that on an S3. But unless you've got really deep pockets there aren't any inexpensive ATSC modulators so you're stuck with old-school NTSC RF (aka channel 3).

Personally I'd really like to see an ATSC modulator at a sub-$100 price point. Nothing like that on the market yet.
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Old 12-22-2008, 09:30 AM   #1297
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Quick question. I'm about to switch to Fios from Time Warner Cable in NYC. As far as the internet is concerned, can I just use their router, turn off the wireless and use my own wireless N router by plugging it into one of the ports on the Verizon router? I keep reading conflicting reports about running a dedicated Cat 5 line and such. There is cable wiring within my walls so if I can use my existing cable without having visible wires around my house, I'd be much happier.

Secondly, since I have cablecards from Time Warner Cable in my two Tivo Series 3's right now, is there anything I should do to get the Tivo's ready for Verizon? Will I lose whatever shows I already have saved? Just wondering if I need to watch everything in the next week or copy it over to my Mac.
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Old 12-22-2008, 09:58 AM   #1298
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Quick question. I'm about to switch to Fios from Time Warner Cable in NYC. As far as the internet is concerned, can I just use their router, turn off the wireless and use my own wireless N router by plugging it into one of the ports on the Verizon router? I keep reading conflicting reports about running a dedicated Cat 5 line and such. There is cable wiring within my walls so if I can use my existing cable without having visible wires around my house, I'd be much happier.

Secondly, since I have cablecards from Time Warner Cable in my two Tivo Series 3's right now, is there anything I should do to get the Tivo's ready for Verizon? Will I lose whatever shows I already have saved? Just wondering if I need to watch everything in the next week or copy it over to my Mac.
I've got this change coming up too. Can I add that I'd like to know if I just rerun Guided Setup and the existing Season Passes will automagically map over to FIOS?

Thanks!

-=Tim=-
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Old 12-22-2008, 10:01 AM   #1299
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I've got this change coming up too. Can I add that I'd like to know if I just rerun Guided Setup and the existing Season Passes will automagically map over to FIOS?

Thanks!

-=Tim=-
I'm moving from Comcast to Fios on Wednesday, and have the same questions as Timber and SirWells.

I've already backed up all the shows on my S3 to my Mac just in case.
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Old 12-22-2008, 10:58 AM   #1300
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You should not loose your shows. You will have to re-run guided setup with the new cards, but that will not affect previously recorded material.

The season passes should map over to fios, just give it a few hours....
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Old 12-22-2008, 11:00 AM   #1301
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No, you will not lose anything. Yes, the TiVo will attempt to remap your season passes to the new channels. (But check them manually, because they could end up moved from HD to SD, for one thing.)
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Old 12-22-2008, 11:01 AM   #1302
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Sir Wells

As far as the wireless internet stuff goes, I don't know, but I would suggest you check out dslreports forum, they are very knowledgeable about that type stuff there.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/vzfiber
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Old 12-22-2008, 11:01 AM   #1303
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Quick question. I'm about to switch to Fios from Time Warner Cable in NYC. As far as the internet is concerned, can I just use their router, turn off the wireless and use my own wireless N router by plugging it into one of the ports on the Verizon router? I keep reading conflicting reports about running a dedicated Cat 5 line and such. There is cable wiring within my walls so if I can use my existing cable without having visible wires around my house, I'd be much happier.
This is exactly how I have mine set up and it works great.
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Old 12-22-2008, 11:48 AM   #1304
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Quick question. I'm about to switch to Fios from Time Warner Cable in NYC. As far as the internet is concerned, can I just use their router, turn off the wireless and use my own wireless N router by plugging it into one of the ports on the Verizon router? I keep reading conflicting reports about running a dedicated Cat 5 line and such. There is cable wiring within my walls so if I can use my existing cable without having visible wires around my house, I'd be much happier.
The simplest solution would be to just use their router for both. But you can use yours and disable just wifi on the verizon unit. However, you will probably need to reconfigure your router so that it behaves as an 'access point' instead of a full router. This way you won't have one router behind the other, which raises hassles for some things. Make sure your router can be configured as an access point (most can, but some cannot). What make/model is it?

You can run a line from the fiber ONT to the verizon router using EITHER coax or CAT5. If you're using Verizon set top boxes, AT ALL, you'll need to have coax to the Verizon router.

There are ways to avoid using the verizon router entirely but that's well beyond the scope of a Tivo forum. The suggestion to read dslreports.com is a good one, as they cover doing just that, and more.

You may or may not need to replace the in-house wiring depending on what was used and what condition it's in. If it's marginal (or unknown) then the FIOS setup includes wiring install, have them put new stuff in place of (or alongside) what's there now.
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Old 12-22-2008, 11:59 AM   #1305
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The simplest solution would be to just use their router for both. ....
In my case, I have an Apple Time Capsule and wireless-N network. I don't want to use the Fios wireless G wifi and slow Time Machine backups to the Time Capsule to a crawl.

It's encouraging to hear that it can be done, and I'll post my experience with the install later this week.
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Old 12-22-2008, 12:23 PM   #1306
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It seems it may be easier to just use my coax cabling and using the Actiontek router with my Dlink N router. If they can run a dedicated Cat5 line, I'd give that a shot. I'm never going to use Verizon set top boxes as I'll be using by Tivos.

Glad to hear I won't lose all my shows and that the season passes will actually transfer. My Tivo continues to amaze me!

Thank you for all your help everyone!
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Old 12-22-2008, 04:24 PM   #1307
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FIOS and the Tivo series 3

I have FIOS HD and of course the Motorola HD DVR is absolute junk (at $19.99 rental no less), along with the regular DVR. I want to ditch the Motorola junk and upgrade.

I need a higher capacity hard drive and the Tivo series 3 seems to be popular around these parts.

Any pro or con comments, or common complaints, on integrating the Tivo DVR's into the FIOS system, is appreciated, and Verizon said they will mail the cards out.

Also, has anyone been able to use the DTV branded Hughes DVR's with Verizon cable cards?

Thanks.
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Old 12-22-2008, 08:17 PM   #1308
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By DTV I'm guessing you mean DirecTV. Those units will not work with anything other than DirecTV service. Their card slot is not the same as a CableCard slot. Nothing can be done to make a DirecTV unit work with anything other than DirecTV.

Yes, the FIOS motorola stuff is utter garbage.

Read the thread here for various Tivo with FIOS observations, no point in everyone rehashing it when you can just go re-read it.

As for the drive upgrades, there are likewise other threads here that cover it. I pulled the drive out of my TivoHD and replaced it with a 750GB unit, works great if a little louder than the factory drive. But, again, read the other threads on this.
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Old 12-23-2008, 06:02 AM   #1309
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In my case, I have an Apple Time Capsule and wireless-N network. I don't want to use the Fios wireless G wifi and slow Time Machine backups to the Time Capsule to a crawl.

It's encouraging to hear that it can be done, and I'll post my experience with the install later this week.
Many folks, myself included, use their wireless-N routers instead of the Actiontec. Like suggested you should turn off the firewall on your router and disable the DHCP server. One other tip is to connect your router using a LAN port instead of the WAN port.
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Old 12-23-2008, 06:48 AM   #1310
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By DTV I'm guessing you mean DirecTV. Those units will not work with anything other than DirecTV service. Their card slot is not the same as a CableCard slot. Nothing can be done to make a DirecTV unit work with anything other than DirecTV.

Yes, the FIOS motorola stuff is utter garbage.

Read the thread here for various Tivo with FIOS observations, no point in everyone rehashing it when you can just go re-read it.

As for the drive upgrades, there are likewise other threads here that cover it. I pulled the drive out of my TivoHD and replaced it with a 750GB unit, works great if a little louder than the factory drive. But, again, read the other threads on this.
Thanks for the response. I did re-read back to page 34, but was hoping for more current info. Either way, it does sound fairly straight forward with very few known issues with the series 3.
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Old 12-23-2008, 07:36 AM   #1311
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The simplest solution would be to just use their router for both. But you can use yours and disable just wifi on the verizon unit. However, you will probably need to reconfigure your router so that it behaves as an 'access point' instead of a full router. This way you won't have one router behind the other, which raises hassles for some things. Make sure your router can be configured as an access point (most can, but some cannot). What make/model is it?

You can run a line from the fiber ONT to the verizon router using EITHER coax or CAT5. If you're using Verizon set top boxes, AT ALL, you'll need to have coax to the Verizon router.

There are ways to avoid using the verizon router entirely but that's well beyond the scope of a Tivo forum. The suggestion to read dslreports.com is a good one, as they cover doing just that, and more.

You may or may not need to replace the in-house wiring depending on what was used and what condition it's in. If it's marginal (or unknown) then the FIOS setup includes wiring install, have them put new stuff in place of (or alongside) what's there now.
One router behind another causes no hassles as long as you don't try to use the same IP address range. I've been using 221.214.xx for 10 years as an IP address range for my own network. Nothing is going to conflict with that so it doesn't cause any problems. I have 40 devices on my network with no problems by having my Dlink DGL4500 connected to a DMZ port on the Actiontec.

Also even if you do use the Actionec with your own router behind it, still try to get an Ethernet connection from the ONT to the Actiontec. That way, if there are ever any problems with the Actiontec, you can still put your own router in there and be up and running instead of waiting for them to send a replacement. But for me my Actiontec has been fine for the 16 months I've had FIOS.
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:39 AM   #1312
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One router behind another causes no hassles as long as you don't try to use the same IP address range. I've been using 221.214.xx for 10 years as an IP address range for my own network. Nothing is going to conflict with that so it doesn't cause any problems. I have 40 devices on my network with no problems by having my Dlink DGL4500 connected to a DMZ port on the Actiontec.

Also even if you do use the Actionec with your own router behind it, still try to get an Ethernet connection from the ONT to the Actiontec. That way, if there are ever any problems with the Actiontec, you can still put your own router in there and be up and running instead of waiting for them to send a replacement. But for me my Actiontec has been fine for the 16 months I've had FIOS.
I read some posts on DSL Reports and some on here about the configuration you'd have to do on the Actiontek router in order to use your own router in conjunction with it. Some seem more detailed than others, what is it that a really need to do? Just turn off the wireless on the Actiontek? Do I need to do anything on my own DLink router? I just want wireless N...
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:47 AM   #1313
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Cat5 from ONT to Airport Extreme. Cable from LAN on APE to LAN on AT. In other words, I've got my N router in front of the AT which I use for TV only. Turn off obtain IP on the AT as well as the wireless and you're good to go. Takes less than 3 minutes.

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Old 12-23-2008, 09:59 AM   #1314
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One router behind another causes no hassles as long as you don't try to use the same IP address range.
My comment was directed toward the hassles of being behind a dual set of NAT addresses. It's a hassle that's easily avoided by using your router as an access point. If you use double NAT networks then you end up with some firewall and port forwarding hassles. Those can be 'worked around' but why bother? There's more to the hassles but that's a discussion best left to other web forums like dslreports.

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I've been using 221.214.xx for 10 years as an IP address range for my own network. Nothing is going to conflict with that so it doesn't cause any problems.
Why are you bothering with a public address range that's already allocated to APNIC? Why not just use one of the established private network numbering ranges? 192.168.x.x, 10.x.x.x and 172.16-31.x.x are specifically set aside for use as private networks. Using one of those ranges seems like it'd make a lot more sense.

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Also even if you do use the Actionec with your own router behind it, still try to get an Ethernet connection from the ONT to the Actiontec.
I believe it's one or the other, coax MOCA or cat5 ethernet, for an active connection. You don't really ever 'have to' use coax from the ONT. The only time you need coax is if you're going to use Verizon set top boxes. Even then you can still add the set top boxes later and still stay with CAT5 to the ONT. You'd just have to use the Actiontec (or some NIM100 units) to bridge the traffic from coax back to cat5.
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Old 12-23-2008, 10:04 AM   #1315
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I read some posts on DSL Reports and some on here about the configuration you'd have to do on the Actiontek router in order to use your own router in conjunction with it. Some seem more detailed than others, what is it that a really need to do? Just turn off the wireless on the Actiontek? Do I need to do anything on my own DLink router? I just want wireless N...
You can reconfigure the actiontec to act as a bridge. And then use your own router for handling all IP traffic. As for your D-link, which model is it? If it can be configured to behave as just an access point then you'd probably want to use that. That way all it does it provide a wireless connection to the actiontec network. It that works, and fulfills your needs then you're all set. But there are some situations where custom firewall settings might be needed. If you're only doing simple browsing, gaming and the like then you'd be fine with the d-link as an access point. But if you've got that thing configured for VPN, port forwarding to servers and that sort of stuff then perhaps not.

During the initial setup phase you may want to stick with just the verizon gear. Once that's proven to work then integrate the d-link. That way if you have to deal with verizon support you'll have a basic setup they know how to deal with. Start adding other stuff and the support people won't be of any help (as if they were anyway). Get it working first.
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Old 12-23-2008, 10:10 AM   #1316
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Cat5 from ONT to Airport Extreme. Cable from LAN on APE to WAN on AT. In other words, I've got my N router in front of the AT which I use for TV only. Turn off obtain IP on the AT as well as the wireless and you're good to go. Takes less than 3 minutes.
The thing you have to be careful about is dealing with bandwidth for the set top boxes. The actiontec, apparently, does a better job of managing bandwidth so the set top boxes get enough bandwidth for VoD and other IP services. When you use your own router FIRST you may run into some problems with that. Just keep that in mind. Some consumer-grade routers are not capable of keeping up with some of the faster speeds. But at the same time the actiontec sucks at handling a lot of simultaneous sessions.
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Old 12-23-2008, 10:19 AM   #1317
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Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post
You can reconfigure the actiontec to act as a bridge. And then use your own router for handling all IP traffic. As for your D-link, which model is it? If it can be configured to behave as just an access point then you'd probably want to use that. That way all it does it provide a wireless connection to the actiontec network. It that works, and fulfills your needs then you're all set. But there are some situations where custom firewall settings might be needed. If you're only doing simple browsing, gaming and the like then you'd be fine with the d-link as an access point. But if you've got that thing configured for VPN, port forwarding to servers and that sort of stuff then perhaps not.

During the initial setup phase you may want to stick with just the verizon gear. Once that's proven to work then integrate the d-link. That way if you have to deal with verizon support you'll have a basic setup they know how to deal with. Start adding other stuff and the support people won't be of any help (as if they were anyway). Get it working first.
I have the D-Link DIR-655 Extreme N Wireless Router. I'd like everything to run from the D-Link, as it would be as close to my current setup. I use a cable modem from Time Warner Cable that goes directly into my D-Link router. I guess running the coax to the Actiontek and then running my D-Link would be pretty similar to the setup I have now. The Actiontek would take the place of the cable modem and my D-Link would handle everything else.

So what would I need to do to make sure the D-Link does everything and the Actiontek serves only to take the coax signal to my D-Link?
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Old 12-23-2008, 11:39 AM   #1318
richsadams
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
One router behind another causes no hassles as long as you don't try to use the same IP address range. I've been using 221.214.xx for 10 years as an IP address range for my own network. Nothing is going to conflict with that so it doesn't cause any problems. I have 40 devices on my network with no problems by having my Dlink DGL4500 connected to a DMZ port on the Actiontec.

Also even if you do use the Actionec with your own router behind it, still try to get an Ethernet connection from the ONT to the Actiontec. That way, if there are ever any problems with the Actiontec, you can still put your own router in there and be up and running instead of waiting for them to send a replacement. But for me my Actiontec has been fine for the 16 months I've had FIOS.
I'm glad this came up...and I guess I'm with SirWells post above. Only knowing enough to be dangerous, I'm going to ask a dumb question before we jump to FIOS.

IIRC there are a number of folks here using their own routers. I have a D-Link DIR-655 Xtreme N router with three D-Link DGS-2205 gigbit switches behind it and couldn't be happier with everything. Everything I have uses Ethernet with the exception of one laptop we like to carry around the house and my cell phone while I'm home so using 802.11n with it's strong signal strength is desirable.

So my question is: is there an advantage to using VZ's Actiontec router over your own (or is it necessary in the FIOS setup - sounds like it is)? TIA!

Last edited by richsadams : 12-23-2008 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 12-23-2008, 12:02 PM   #1319
webin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams View Post
So my question is: is there an advantage to using VZ's Actiontec router over your own (or is it necessary in the FIOS setup - sounds like it is)? TIA!
If you are keeping any verizon set top boxes, the actiontec is supposedly needed for VOD, the STB's on-screen guide, and the silly widgets they offer. If you are using only tivo's, any router will do ya.
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Old 12-23-2008, 12:15 PM   #1320
justlen
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Join Date: Dec 2006
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Out here in Seattle I made the switch from Comcast to FIOS a few months ago:

-I had the tech connect the Westell to the ONT via Ethernet.
-CableCard setup went flawless.
-Re-ran Guided Setup and all my Season Passes reconfigured

After the Tech left I disconnected the Westell and connected my Airport Extreme. It wouldn't connect until I called tech support and had them release the Westell MAC address from the DHCP pool. Then the Airport connected and worked.

After a bit of time I ran some speed tests and realized I wasn't getting the speeds I had signed up for. I swapped the routers, did the whole DHCP thing with Tech support and BAM I was flying.

So there is something to be said for the Westell.
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