Engadget Review WITH GUTS PICS!

[supasta]

http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/12/h...-tivo-series3/

[stopper10]

Good review....

important information from Engadget review:

On sale TODAY at tivo web site, available later this week at Best buy, Circuit city, frys, and ultimate electronics
"good luck with that decision"

What to do, what to do. Order from tivo web site and wait on shipping? Or wait and buy from Best Buy ASAP. HMMMMM......

[doormat]

You think for $800 (and that they're selling the box to BB, CC, etc for $500) TiVo would give us free 2 or 3 day shipping so we'd have it by Friday. Or pay for Saturday delivery. Something so people didnt have to wait until Monday.

[davezatz]

We're uploading videos now, including the kickass THX animation. You won't want to miss it. It gives me shivers everytime I hear it.
http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/12/v...es3-in-action/

[bkdtv]

davezatz,

Do you by chance have high res photos of the Series3 internals? If so, could you list the part numbers you see?

Some would like to know whether this product features 2005 technology or 2006 technology under the hood.

Please also comment on the responsiveness of the unit. Is there any UI lag whatsoever?

[davezatz]

I don't have any higher res pics. My camera isn't very good and neither is the photographer. If you tell me what you're looking for, I can check.

The UI is not as sprightly as a 6412, but it's also not anywhere near as slow as my Humax burner. I wouldn't say there is lag, but it's not super swift. It's fine, though I would prefer faster.

[Arcady]

This was the first review I've seen that confirmed MRV is missing.

Yuck.

[bkdtv]

Look for any part with a BCM or BCRM on it. The main Broadcom processor is almost certainly under that large silver heatsink, but it's possible that the supporting chip component will give us a hint as what they are using.

Can you confirm that the internal drive is SATA? Perhaps quote the model number of the hard drive?

And how about the make and part number on those memory chips? The speed and amount of memory could tell us what video processor they are using.

[doormat]

Dave, thanks for that THX video. AWESOME. Grr... holding out for four months is going to be hard.

[davezatz]

The hard drive actually says Serial ATA on it, so I think we've got that covered. I'm not prying up the heatsink, but the visible Broadcom chip is BCM7411KPB0,HN0615,P40,779828,N3. What I think are the memory chips say 0622,4-2,46V16M16. I don't have my glasses and the lights are dim, so tha's the best we're doing tonight.

[dswallow]

Originally Posted by davezatz

but the visible Broadcom chip is BCM7411KPB0,HN0615,P40,779828,N3.

http://www.broadcom.com/products/Cab...essors/BCM7411
http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/7411-PB05-R.pdf

[Maxx_75]

Sweet ! I don't know what to do....... the wife will kill me if I spend $ 1100 on this.

[bpurcell]

Dave, any cool Shanan videos on it?

[davezatz]

Funny you should mention Shanan videos...

If I manage to wake up in the morning, you might want to check my site.

[George Cifranci]

Originally Posted by doormat

Dave, thanks for that THX video. AWESOME. Grr... holding out for four months is going to be hard.

Yeah the THX logo is cool but does anyone else think they really cheaped out on the TiVo startup animation? Especially considering how elaborate the Series 1 and Series 2 startup videos were. Granted after you watch them once or twice who cares, but still. I was hoping for some clever HD TiVo startup animation.

[bkdtv]

From what you've said, I am very very disappointed.

The BCM7411KPB0 is the older version of the MPEG-4/VC-1 add-on designed to add MPEG-4 and VC-1 capability to older hardware designs based on Broadcom video processors from 2004. Sadly, it looks like the Series3 has the exact same cpu and video processor as the discontinued DirecTivo HR10.

From what you've indicated, the Series3 does not even include the newer version of the 7411 (7411D), which improves AVC and VC-1 decoding performance. The original version of the 7411 had some issues with VC-1 (WM9) HD playback quality.

Broadcom's newer video processors offer significantly improved video decoding, de-interlace, and scaling performance. Broadcom's newest solution -- released January 2006 -- doubled processor performance and improved 2D/3D display performance -- so it is really unfortunate that Tivo elected to use relatively old technology in the Series3.

Use of the older chipset also limits Tivo's ability to improve the interface design and graphics on the Series3. Perhaps more importantly, it limits Tivo's ability to expand the functionality of the product in the future; this processor is sufficient for today's Tivo software (but not at blazing speed), but doesn't provide much (if any) headroom for the future. You can say goodbye to most Java-based interactive applications (online stores, etc), because the Series3 won't have the necessary processing power to support them.

Paraphrasing an associate of mine at Broadcom -- "the BCM7038 is great for traditional dvr applications, but if you want a dvr or media center that is going to support the kinds of applications consumers are going to want in a year or two, you would be much better off with the BCM7400."

I figured that at the very least, Tivo would create a product based on Broadcom's 2005 design (BCM7401). The BCM7038 is not a solution for a videophile-type product. It is a solution for a low-end design. The performance of its HD/SD scaling and deinterlace is indicative of that. It's the same chip you find in Comcast's Motorola 6412 DVRs.

That's right guys -- it looks like the core design of the Series3 is very similar to the Motorola 641x provided by Comcast and Cox. In the past, it was generally assumed that the Series3 would be superior in every respect to the DVRs supplied by the cable company -- but with the exception of MPEG-4 support, it looks like the Series3 will have very little advantage over the Motorola DVRs with the upcoming Tivo software upgrade.

[BriGuy20]

:: Jumps up and down like a little schoolgirl ::

AHWMIGAWD!! AHWMIGAWD!! AHWMIGAWND!!!!

With this and Apple on the SAME DAY, I think I just might well have a nerdgasm.

[George Cifranci]

Originally Posted by bkdtv

That's right guys -- it looks like the core design of the Series3 is very similar to the Motorola 641x provided by Comcast and Cox. In the past, it was generally assumed that the Series3 would be superior in every respect to the DVRs supplied by the cable company -- but with the exception of MPEG-4 support, it looks like the Series3 will have very little advantage over the Motorola DVRs with the upcoming Tivo software upgrade.

1. Is it a TiVo with it's legendary ease of use? CHECK

2. Does it record HD? CHECK

3. Can it record two channels at once? CHECK

4. Can I expand the recording space? CHECK

5. Will it allow me to record the 2 HD OTA channels (ABC and FOX) that I can't get via TW cable because Sinclair Broadcasting are a bunch of dicks? CHECK

6. Does it allow me to dump my piece of crap Time Warner SA 8300HD DVR? CHECK

That's all I need from the S3.

[megazone]

Originally Posted by bkdtv

Do you by chance have high res photos of the Series3 internals? If so, could you list the part numbers you see?

I do. They'll be posted later this morning. I have 196 photos to post - inside, outside, screens, etc.

CPU/decoder is 7411, encoders (for analog) are 7042.

[AgentSmith]

All the Best Buys in my area (which is in the middle of nowhere, essentially) are showing in-stock availability NOW. See the "Best Buy Page Up" thread for linky.

[vman41]

Originally Posted by bkdtv

Broadcom's newer video processors offer significantly improved video decoding, de-interlace, and scaling performance. Broadcom's newest solution -- released January 2006 -- doubled processor performance and improved 2D/3D display performance -- so it is really unfortunate that Tivo elected to use relatively old technology in the Series3.

I imagine it wasn't old technology when they started. You really think that a box designed around a chip released 9 months ago could be shipping today?

[bkdtv]

CPU/decoder is 7411

The 7411 doesn't have a MIPS CPU. It doesn't have dvr capability. The 7411 is an add-on chip. It won't work alone -- it requires a primary cpu/decoder with dvr functions like the 7038.

I imagine it wasn't old technology when they started. You really think that a box designed around a chip released 9 months ago could be shipping today?

Well, I'm sure Tivo -- as one of Broadcom's larger customers -- could have procured samples prior to that point. The BCM7038 solution was designed back in 2004 and replaced in August/September 2005 with the BCM7401. The newest 7400 began shipping in January.

[davezatz]

Originally Posted by bkdtv

The BCM7411KPB0 is the older version of the MPEG-4/VC-1 add-on designed

First off, the S3 has been in development for quite awhile so it's not realistic to expect last week's chip in the unit. Secondly, the TiVo experience is oh-so-much more than the chip they use.

Originally Posted by George Cifranci

Yeah the THX logo is cool but does anyone else think they really cheaped out on the TiVo startup animation? Especially considering how elaborate the Series 1 and Series 2 startup videos were. Granted after you watch them once or twice who cares, but still. I was hoping for some clever HD TiVo startup animation.

TiVo PR tells me this was a very deliberate decision given the product and the market. I think it's both tasteful, fun, and impressive.

[megazone]

It is understated, but I do miss the whimsy of the other animations. I was hoping for something like a grainy TiVo Dude who jumps to the S3 and becomes clear and sharp - maybe starting out B&W and evolving through color, then High Def. :-)

But I like having the THX sound on demand to blast. ;-)

[davezatz]

Originally Posted by davezatz

Funny you should mention Shanan videos...
If I manage to wake up in the morning, you might want to check my site.

The video is now released to the public:
http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2006-09/...al-video-airs/



Feel free to digg Shanan (we already do):
http://digg.com/tech_news/TiVo_relea...motional_video

[vstone]

Originally Posted by George Cifranci

Yeah the THX logo is cool but does anyone else think they really cheaped out on the TiVo startup animation? Especially considering how elaborate the Series 1 and Series 2 startup videos were. Granted after you watch them once or twice who cares, but still. I was hoping for some clever HD TiVo startup animation.

Better startup screen in HD or more space for my HD recordings? Who needs a startup screen. Windows still uses a startup screen that is stretched, introducing aliasing.

[jfh3]

Originally Posted by bkdtv

I figured that at the very least, Tivo would create a product based on Broadcom's 2005 design (BCM7401). The BCM7038 is not a solution for a videophile-type product. It is a solution for a low-end design. The performance of its HD/SD scaling and deinterlace is indicative of that. It's the same chip you find in Comcast's Motorola 6412 DVRs.

That's right guys -- it looks like the core design of the Series3 is very similar to the Motorola 641x provided by Comcast and Cox. In the past, it was generally assumed that the Series3 would be superior in every respect to the DVRs supplied by the cable company -- but with the exception of MPEG-4 support, it looks like the Series3 will have very little advantage over the Motorola DVRs with the upcoming Tivo software upgrade.

Nuts. Maybe I'll only get one for now.

So much for state-of-the-art DVR.

[davezatz]

Just heard from David Pogue of the NYTimes - his review should be up "very soon."

[bpurcell]

Originally Posted by davezatz

The video is now released to the public:
http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2006-09/...al-video-airs/

Just to let you know, that was the video shown on Teleworld.