Series 3 & Cable STB

curuxu · 09-08-2006, 05:58 PM

I've been reading through some of the threads in this forum that discuss the fact that the new S3 apparently will only work with CableCards but not with regular cable STBs. However, this morning I saw a reference to a TIVO ad on the Endgadget blog that says:

"The Tivo Series 3 will give your current digital cable customers the best of both worlds with VOD capabilities through their current cable box and all the great benefits of Tivo in HD"

What's the deal?

Thanks,

curuxu

bkdtv · 09-08-2006, 06:02 PM

That advertisement was aimed toward cable companies, not consumers. It was published in a trade publication that cable co industry employees subscribe to...

The Tivo Series3 replaces your cable box. It can do everything your cable box does except support VOD. If you want to access SD VOD, you'll have to keep your cable box.

Note while the Series3 doesn't support your cable company's VOD, it does support Internet services -- like Internet radio and potentially even streaming HDTV -- that your cable box doesn't.

curuxu · 09-08-2006, 06:07 PM

I don't understand why they're saying that you can have the best of both worlds then. Can you keep the cable box for VOD and On Demand and have a TIVO S3 hooked up at the same time? I for one wouldn't want to give up my VOD and OnDemand services. If that were to be the case, I would certainly pass on the S3 until it offered support for CableCard 2.0.

sommerfeld · 09-08-2006, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curuxu

Can you keep the cable box for VOD and On Demand and have a TIVO S3 hooked up at the same time?

Yes, that's what coax splitters and multiple inputs on your TV and/or receiver are there for...

curuxu · 09-08-2006, 06:11 PM

That's a different story but I guess that would make the S3 hook up a lot more expensive, having to pay for a STB, two cable cards and TIVO service plus the upfront cost of the S3 unit itself... I'm still undecided. I think if definitely makes senses to wait for TIVO to come up with an S3 that supports CableCard 2.0. Thoughts?

bkdtv · 09-08-2006, 06:13 PM

Quote:

I think if definitely makes senses to wait for TIVO to come up with an S3 that supports CableCard 2.0. Thoughts?

The CableCard 2.0 standard doesn't exist yet. A Series4 Tivo with CC2.0 support is probably 2-3 years away.

With the Tivo recording everything, I personally don't see much need for On Demand, which tends to be poor to mediocre quality SD anyway. I want HDTV.

jsmeeker · 09-08-2006, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curuxu

That's a different story but I guess that would make the S3 hook up a lot more expensive, having to pay for a STB, two cable cards and TIVO service plus the upfront cost of the S3 unit itself... I'm still undecided. I think if definitely makes senses to wait for TIVO to come up with an S3 that supports CableCard 2.0. Thoughts?

A Series 3 TiVo PLUS a Cable Box is how I always envisioned my setup to be.

Extra cost? If I can get a multi-stream CableCARD, my only additional expense on my cable TV bill is that single CableCARD.

But yes, a TiVo Series 3 that could actually do the cable company VOD and PPV stuff would be the most ideal.

Gregor · 09-08-2006, 06:54 PM

I'm going to keep my HD cable box, at least for a month or two, until I figure out how much I really use VOD. I watch it occaisonally but I've started keeping track to see if it's worth the money.

curuxu · 09-08-2006, 07:12 PM

Does anybody know if the new S3 units could eventually be upgraded to work with the new CableCard 2.0 standards?

Gregor · 09-08-2006, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curuxu

Does anybody know if the new S3 units could eventually be upgraded to work with the new CableCard 2.0 standards?

Nobody knows for sure, but since new CC2.0 standard hasn't been finalized, it's assumed that the S3 won't have the hardware to deal with it. Only time will tell.

classicsat · 09-09-2006, 03:13 PM

The "current" S3 can very likely use a CC2.0 card in unidirectional mode. I believe one couldmake add-on hardware for bi-directional, but I don't expect it to happen.

jmoak · 09-09-2006, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicsat

The "current" S3 can very likely use a CC2.0 card in unidirectional mode. I believe one couldmake add-on hardware for bi-directional, but I don't expect it to happen.

Add-on hardware? It's not needed, right?

The series 3 has ethernet built in and most cable companies now offer internet access via docsis cable modems, so why can't a series 3 just use the cable intranet for the return channel instead of needing a built-in, return path "oob" modem?

The newest cable stb's are doing it, why not tivo?

If the series 3 does not already have docsis support built in the subscriber would have to have cable modem service, but that was obvious, eh?

megazone · 09-10-2006, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmoak

Add-on hardware? It's not needed, right?

The series 3 has ethernet built in and most cable companies now offer internet access via docsis cable modems, so why can't a series 3 just use the cable intranet for the return channel instead of needing a built-in, return path "oob" modem?

CC2.0 requires direct upstream communication over the cable and not a standard network connection. At least the current proposal. CC2.0 also requires FireWire on the host device to be certified, so the S3 wouldn't be qualified.

jmoak · 09-10-2006, 11:03 AM

CC2 dictates return path origination on the client side (even though both a docsis modem and an internal oob modulator communicate back to the headend for control and entitlement messages via the same return path demod, as in moto's RPD1000/2000), AND insists that any device cc2 compliant must have a iee 1394 port?

wow, i did not know that.

As hard as it is for me to grasp the reasons behind the first part (no need to explain, really

), the firewire part of it just makes no sense.

You'd think that cable companies via the open cable standards would try to make it as easy as possible for ce manufacturer's boxes to access ppv and vod on their systems. That's possibly a big hunk of revenue they're cutting themselves out of.

Or are they potentially turning down revenue to try to lure subs into renting their stb's? You know, the old stifle innovation, competition and subscriber satisfaction for the sake of system dominance.

Well, at least I can still put up an antenna for hd, eh?

kdmorse · 09-10-2006, 03:52 PM

You'd think that cable companies via the open cable standards would try to make it as easy as possible for ce manufacturer's boxes to access ppv and vod on their systems.

Unfortunatly no. Cable Companies are doing everything in their power to prevent open integration with third partty systems. They want to own the entire setup from end to end, includeing the STBs. They all envy Dish and DirecTV for having accomplished this goal (mostly). If they had their way, there would be no CC standard, and no means by which their signal could be decoded other than the box they provide.

Hense all the foot-dragging on CC2.0, etc....

-Ken

Diddle · 07-28-2008, 11:57 PM

Yeah, I'm digging up this old thread because I have a question pertaining to its contents (see? I search!) and didn't want to start a new thread because it's mostly relevant...

I've currently got a S2 on analog cable but I'm in the middle of renovations and will be moving to an HD setup. I've considered the TivoHD but here's my problem... I'm in Canada (Vancouver) and we don't have CableCards in order to get the digital service. When I spoke with a technician at Shaw Cable today, he seemed to think that I could just get a digital terminal and use that between the wall and my Tivo box to switch stations.

My initial thought with that was that I would immediately lose the dual-tuner functionality of the Tivo box (never mind the fact that I'd have to rent the digital tuner from my cable co.), but I also noticed in photos of the Tivo HD unit that there isn't a control connection (for DE-9) like the S2 has.

So break it down for me, HD gurus, would I be a fool to invest in a Tivo HD or is there a work-around for those of us without CableCard support?

jrm01 · 07-29-2008, 07:44 AM

Why would TiVo HD need an external digital tuner given the fact is has two of them built in? Also, how would you connect the digital tuner to the TiVo HD given that it does not have AV inputs?

The lack of cablecards does not cause a tuning problem. The digital channels are there and TiVo can tune them. It just can't un-encrypt them without the cablecards. It also can't map the channel numbers correctly without the cablecards.

Doesn't sound like your friendly CSR understands TiVo too well.

classicsat · 07-29-2008, 09:00 AM

Unless you are going to use it to tune digital OTA from across the border, you would be a fool getting an HD TiVo in Canada.

The only way to have TiVo in Canada, is to record either analog cable or antenna, or from your provider's box, which means a Series 2 of some sort; an older Single tuner for antenna, a Series 2 DT for cable or any provider with box.

Diddle · 07-29-2008, 10:10 AM

Thanks for the quick replies guys - that's pretty much what I figured. Basically Canadian cable companies are laying down the hate on their customers and Tivo isn't sending any love our way in the HD variety.