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Old 09-06-2006, 12:38 PM   #1
goony
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Future availability of PATA/IDE drives for upgrades/repairs?

There are a few of us that will probably keep our standard-def (SD) Tivos/DTivos for a while... I have 4 DTivos with full 'network enhancements' that I am very happy with.

I've been watching my favorite PC parts website (http://www.newegg.com) and, of course, SATA (Serial ATA) drives are frequently featured and are on sale.

In a few years, IDE/PATA drives will be in the minority and we'll probably have to pay higher prices to upgrade or fix failed drives in our old crusty Tivo/DTivos that were made with an IDE/PATA controller. I want to prepare a strategy now to be able to use SATA drives in my boxes.

I was curious if anyone had tried running an SATA drive in a Tivo/DTivo using a converter card like this one, (home page at http://www.kinamax.com) and if so, how did it work out? NewEgg has them for $9.99 + shipping, FYI.

If you try this, you will also need to get a power adapter cable that will let you run an SATA drive from a IDE/PATA power connector.
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Old 09-06-2006, 12:56 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by goony
...
I was curious if anyone had tried running an SATA drive in a Tivo/DTivo using a converter card like this one, (home page at http://www.kinamax.com) and if so, how did it work out? NewEgg has them for $9.99 + shipping, FYI.
Here's one guy that did it to attach to a SATA raid array. photos.

Last edited by JamieP : 09-06-2006 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 09-07-2006, 01:31 AM   #3
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PATA/IDE drives will likely be available long after our current Tivos have died or become obsolete.
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Old 09-07-2006, 07:39 AM   #4
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I agree. Many people still use PATA drives in their SATA-compatible PCs. There are lots of PC owners that don't upgrade their PCs to the latest and greatest technology just because the industry thinks it's a good idea to make a change. PATA drives will be avilable for many years to come.
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Old 09-08-2006, 11:52 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by litzdog911
PATA/IDE drives will likely be available long after our current Tivos have died or become obsolete.
That's good to hear - I was under the impression that the hard drive world was eager to say "good bye" to the parallel drives, or at least charge a fortune for them compared to the newer SATA drives.
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Old 09-08-2006, 11:55 AM   #6
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That's good to hear - I was under the impression that the hard drive world was eager to say "good bye" to the parallel drives, or at least charge a fortune for them compared to the newer SATA drives.
Agreed. Otherwise I might have to stockpile some PATAs in my basement (if I had a basement).
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Old 09-08-2006, 12:07 PM   #7
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I think we are still years away from becoming concerned about the demise of PATA hard drives.
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Old 11-11-2007, 05:35 PM   #8
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I think we are still years away from becoming concerned about the demise of PATA hard drives.
Heh, or at least one year...

I know that PATA drives are still available as I just bought a Western Digital 500GB PATA drive ( WD5000AAJB ) to replace my dead Maxtor drive in my Pioneer DVD Tivo.

While shopping, I noticed a couple of things:
1. SATA drives are now cheaper than PATA drives. I view this as the tipping point for the demise of PATA replacement parts. PATA will get progressively more expensive while SATA drives will continue to offer progressively lower price per gigabyte.
2. The newest drive mechanisms aren't being released for the PATA interface, only the SATA interface. I found one 750GB PATA drive, but for the most part, 500GB is the top end for PATA. Even among manufacturers, Seagate and Western Digital seem to be the only folks making PATA anymore.
3. It was darned hard to find a place selling the Western Digital PATA drive. Newegg is sold out and only has the Seagates. I'm biased against Seagate because I want to turn acoustic management on and I still have my worries about the level of quietness of Seagate drives. BTW, as an aside, is the DB35 any quieter than their desktop drives?

Anyway, as this was my *second* replacement drive for my Pioneer, I was trying to figure out if I should try to mitigate against the future availability and pricing of 500GB PATA drives by getting one or two and, say, using them in my NAS device or something so I'll have them for my next drive failure.
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Old 11-12-2007, 09:45 AM   #9
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I wouldn't worry. They still sell 3.5" floppies after all.
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Old 11-12-2007, 10:52 AM   #10
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You can probably use SATA to IDE adapters too. I heard they will work with TiVo.
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Old 11-12-2007, 10:44 PM   #11
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SATA and PATA aren't actually terribly different from each other - they're basically different physical interfaces. That's why there's PATA to SATA (and vice-versa) adapters out there - all that's really done is change the physical interface from one to the other. They're fairly cheap adapters too - and sites like ptvupgrade sell them. The physical signalling is different, but the logical layer remains pretty much the same. The early SATA drives just had a chip in them, and quite likely, PATA drives will have a chip that takes the SATA native interface into a PATA one.

They will also be around as a lot of embedded processors don't have SATA interfaces, but PATA ones instead (think iPods and other portable media players), and the embedded processor market is a much slower moving one (mostly because embedded operating systems - not ones like Linux, but think VxWorks and the like - don't incorporate new technology all that rapidly). (Think - only the past couple of years has USB host interfaces been popular additions to embedded processors, and most are still USB 1.1, while PCs have had them for nearly 10 years now).

(In fact, SATA has a few deficiencies in its physical interface that can cause issues, hence the longevity of the PATA interface, especially in the enterprise area).
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Old 11-15-2007, 10:44 AM   #12
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good through 2009, at least...

Seagate made an official announcement to mitigate some concerns floating around about this a couple of months ago. Nothing to worry about for some time...
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Old 11-15-2007, 02:28 PM   #13
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Hmmm,

I bought a WD 500GB drive about three weeks ago and upgraded one of my DT's. I went back to buy the same drive at newegg to do the same for my other DT and the biggest drives they have offered by WD are 320gb.
There are plenty of Seagate drives, but it's obvious why

I wonder if there is a shortage right now on WD 500GB drives? I have looked at other places and they all seem to be 'Out of Stock'.


Z
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Old 11-15-2007, 04:40 PM   #14
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Hmmm,

I bought a WD 500GB drive about three weeks ago and upgraded one of my DT's. I went back to buy the same drive at newegg to do the same for my other DT and the biggest drives they have offered by WD are 320gb.
There are plenty of Seagate drives, but it's obvious why

I wonder if there is a shortage right now on WD 500GB drives? I have looked at other places and they all seem to be 'Out of Stock'.


Z
I sent an Email to Newegg and am awaiting their response ( not yet 1 day waiting). I asked if they were discontinuing the drives as ZIPZOOMFLY has done (they stated that they believed that all demand was going to SATA II) you can always try www.thenerds.net who also carry Seagate DB35 drives. I will post when I get a reply from Newegg, if I do not post you will know their customer support is non-responsive.
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Old 11-15-2007, 04:52 PM   #15
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Canned response from Newegg

"We thank you for your prompt attention. However, please kindly note that every product we carry is listed on our website, pricing and availability posted in real time. Please check all prices and availability at www.newegg.com for our most up-to-date status. When an item is out of stock, we usually provide an ETA on our website. Unfortunately if we do not have a date provided then the ETA is undetermined. We do provide an Auto Notify link for out of stock items. By utilizing this feature an email would be sent once the item is made available again on our website. Please kindly note that any item that is removed from our website usually will be out of stock for longer than 2 weeks."

Newegg failed to answer question about whether or not the Items were discontinued and why auto-notify had been discontinued. Either they have bad relations with their suppliers or bad customer support to emailed questions.
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Old 11-15-2007, 06:11 PM   #16
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You can find plenty of WD drives here
http://www.thenerds.net/WESTERN_DIGI...D5000AAJB.html
a little more expensive but plenty of stock, they also carry DB35 Seagate drives for DVR's
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Old 11-15-2007, 08:27 PM   #17
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Nice work Travis,

Yep more expensive, I bought my Western Digital Caviar SE WD5000AAJB 500GB for 99 bucks at Newegg. The total was $104 with shipping.

That is still a pretty decent price, $124, $135ish with shipping since Newegg doesn't seem to carry them anymore. I received the same email response from them as well. Just a blanket email to shut most people up.

Z
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Old 11-15-2007, 09:50 PM   #18
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Coupon code for thenerds.net:
$5 off of $100 (affgoo2*)
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Old 11-15-2007, 10:07 PM   #19
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Nice work Travis,

Yep more expensive, I bought my Western Digital Caviar SE WD5000AAJB 500GB for 99 bucks at Newegg. The total was $104 with shipping.

That is still a pretty decent price, $124, $135ish with shipping since Newegg doesn't seem to carry them anymore. I received the same email response from them as well. Just a blanket email to shut most people up.

Z

How was your drive shipped?

Last time I got few drive from Newegg, they were wrapped in bubble wraps by twos and shipped in a box full of peanut shells. Problem with that is drives sink down to the bottom w/ little protection and gets banged around.

Drives were DOA on two separate occasions.
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Old 11-15-2007, 10:17 PM   #20
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Yes Spike2k5 Newegg does have shipping problems especially from their New Jersey warehouse. I use to purchase from ZipZoomFly but they have stopped ordering parallel IDE ATA100 drives because they are shifting to entirely to SATA & SATA II drives ( so I was informed by their customer support) hence due to Inventory issues as well as customer support issues I am now suggesting ordering from thenerds.net
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Old 11-15-2007, 10:34 PM   #21
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I had a Seagate 320 GB SATA drive sitting around. I ordered a SATA to IDE Mini Vertical Bridge adapter and used that drive in my Pioneer 810 H Upgrade http://www.cooldrives.com/satoidecofor.html. It worked great
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Old 11-16-2007, 06:57 AM   #22
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Hey Spike,

Yep that is how I have received all of my Western Digital drives I have ordered from them. I have been lucky; you can read the reviews to see how many people get DOA drives. Not just from Newegg but other sites as well.
The first one is in my computer, 2 years old still going, another one in an external enclosure, one in my S2 ST Tivo and one in my DT. I have been very lucky. It's a crap shoot with OEM drives from most places. They are not going to spend the extra money on packaging, that is what a retail version gives you.
So I consider myself lucky that I have had zero issues so far with any of the drives I have ordered online. Keeping my fingers crossed for the next one.

I live in Florida; they ship most of my items from their Tennessee warehouse, so maybe that helps a little.

Pcar1947,

That is the first I have heard of someone using that in a Tivo. Very glad to hear that it is working. Did you have to update firmware or do anything different other than just plugging it in?

Z
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Old 11-16-2007, 02:22 PM   #23
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Good Price on Maxtor 500 GB at TigerDirect
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...7558&CatId=525

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Old 11-16-2007, 08:20 PM   #24
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travis,

Maxtor, are you insane?

Z
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Old 11-16-2007, 09:17 PM   #25
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Maybe, but this is my third 500 GB Maxtor the first two are quiet and work great Besides didn't your Mother teach you it is not polite to make fun of the mentally retarded.
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Old 11-17-2007, 05:37 AM   #26
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@rbtravis:

I googled for SE WD5000AAJB, and the link for newegg said this (small print) at the top:

"We apologize for the inconvenience, but the item you are looking for has been deactivated. Here are some similar products that you may wish to consider:"

"Deactivated" is certainly a stronger term than "Out of Stock;" it would be nice if they could make a canned email to cover that case...
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And thanks to all for the reassuring thread.

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Old 11-17-2007, 08:07 AM   #27
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@rbtravis:

I googled for SE WD5000AAJB, and the link for newegg said this (small print) at the top:

"We apologize for the inconvenience, but the item you are looking for has been deactivated. Here are some similar products that you may wish to consider:"

"Deactivated" is certainly a stronger term than "Out of Stock;" it would be nice if they could make a canned email to cover that case...
___

And thanks to all for the reassuring thread.

Ken
The replacement drives are still available at quality Etailors such as TigerDirect and TheNerds.net. (Zipzoomfly and Newegg it looks like they are abandoning the Market) it is their money and what they want to spend money on. They are like the thundering herd all rushing to sell something you don't want at twice the price. Best Buy has the proper drive for the S3 TiVo only at the tremendous bargain of twice the going price. (not for me thank you) There are still good bargains out there you just have to look for them. You can still go to Spike2k5's site www.mfslive.org and get the software for marrying drives for Free. Just keep posting sites with good prices. We have to abandon Etailors who have abandoned us. Although I only have RCA Directv TiVos, Here is what Western Digital and BestBuy view as what is the future for TiVo drives:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1185271084416

Search for best prices here:
http://www.pricespider.com/index.aspx

Good Luck
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Old 01-19-2009, 01:12 PM   #28
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I think we are still years away from becoming concerned about the demise of PATA hard drives.
OK - it's now been years since this post!

I am starting to worry though. Between my own and my kids lifetime TiVo's, I have 6 series 2's. I have a couple of old 40 gig and 1 300 gig PATA drive in the cabinet.

I see places like Surplus Computers sell 200 gig PATA drives for $35 or so...should we stock up a few for future replacements? Or am I worrying over nothing? Do SATA to EIDE crossovers work?

Anyone have any thoughts? Thanks.
Jim
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Old 01-19-2009, 02:20 PM   #29
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Do SATA to EIDE crossovers work?
Most of the time they do work. If you troll the boards enough you will see that people are already using them. I personally remember reading about at least 3-4 S1 using them in the UK forum.
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Old 01-19-2009, 03:43 PM   #30
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Seagate DB35 160GB drives should still be in production through the end of this year (unless something changes). Higher capacity Seagate DB35 drives have been discontinued and are no longer available from our distributors.

I've not heard anything about Western Digital PATA drives becoming unavailable, but if it hasn't been announced, it is probably just a matter of time.

As it turns out, PATA/SATA adapters do work fine (not all of them do, but most do and we offer one for < $20) in all the Series2 units we've tested out (except for the TCD130, from what I recall) but they will not work in Series1 units.

Lou
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