Tivo and Cox

johnd7 · 08-25-2006, 10:04 AM

From the San Diego Union Tribune today:

Cox, Tivo to team up in select Markets

Cable firm hopes to lure customers
By Jennifer Davies
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

August 25, 2006

Cox Communications is joining with TiVo to offer a souped-up version of its popular digital video recorder service.

The service will be available in select markets at the beginning of next year and will be rolled out in additional Cox service areas throughout 2007. Cox wouldn't say when it would be available in San Diego.

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The deal announced yesterday is a boon for TiVo as it adds another high-profile customer in the wake of a recent victory in a patent dispute with Echo-Star Communications, which offers Dish satellite TV services.

TiVo also has a similar deal with Comcast, the largest U.S. cable company.

For Cox, it provides another service designed to encourage users to sign up for digital cable. Digital video recorder technology allows a subscriber to record a number of programs, store them and watch anytime in the future. It can also freeze live action and record two shows at once. DVRs only work with digital cable connections.

TiVo, the company that is credited with creating the DVR phenomenon, offers several features that many other DVRs do not. For instance, the service is known for its ability to pick out shows that subscribers might like based on their viewing habits.

TiVo also allows customers to use the Internet to program their DVR at the last minute from remote locations like a workplace computer. Other features include TiVo's Season Pass, which records every episode, except for reruns, of a customer's favorite show and the Wish List service, which allows a user to type in a subject such as midcentury modern architecture and have TiVo record any related programming. In addition, many consider TiVo to have a superior user interface.

Bruce McGregor, an analyst who covers digital home media for Current Analysis, a market research firm, said that as the industry's pioneer, TiVo has come up with many bells and whistles that regular DVRs do not have.

“TiVo has been able to develop next-generation services that are not just about taping shows,” he said.

Because of TiVo's cachet, Cox thinks the service will lure more customers.

“People really love TiVo and it certainly has a lot of brand identity,” said David Grabert, spokesman for Cox Communications.

Cox customers will not have to switch out their current boxes because TiVo will download its software to the current Cox DVR set-top boxes. Grabert also said that customers will have a choice between Cox's current DVR service and the TiVo service, which will cost between $3 and $5 more a month. Currently, Cox's DVR service is about $10 a month.

Grabert said the DVR service has proved to be one of Cox's most popular services.

“More and more people choose digital cable because you have to have it to have a digital video recorder,” he said.

Cox would not release the percentage of its 5.9 million customers who have DVR service. J.D. Power and Associates, however, estimated that 38 percent of all cable subscribers have DVR service and that 25 percent of satellite customers have it. About 24 percent of cable and satellite customers use TiVo as their DVR.

TiVo's sales have been hurt in recent years as cable and satellite companies have offered their own DVR services. By signing deals with Comcast and Cox as well as extending its current deal with DirecTV, TiVo is moving into a new phase of its business, said Michael Kelman, an analyst at Susquehanna Financial.

“This is definitely the way they'd like to transition the business. I almost see their stand-alone business as a bridge strategy until they can deploy this strategy further,” he said.

TiVo has also been further buoyed by the victory in its patent dispute with EchoStar, which has about 12.5 million customers. In April a federal jury found that EchoStar had infringed on TiVo's Time Warp patent, which enables such capabilities as pausing live television, slow motion and instant replays.

A federal judge last week ordered EchoStar to turn off more than 3 million of its DVRs and stop selling the service. EchoStar received a temporary injunction through an appeal to a higher court.

However, industry observers said the recent course of events would pressure other cable companies such as Time Warner into licensing deals. Mark Farrar, a spokesman for Time Warner Cable in San Diego, said the company currently has no plans to offer TiVo service.

Grabert said Cox didn't sign its deal with TiVo because of any concern that it was infringing on any patents.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/b...-1b25tivo.html

aztivo · 08-25-2006, 10:25 AM

good catch thanks for the info... hello is today Thursday

hockeyinsd · 08-25-2006, 10:38 AM

I love this news, if only that it might put pressure on TWC to get some kind of deal with Tivo. I have DISH w/ a series 2 tivo, but would switch to TWC for their HD offerings (FSW HD) if I could have the tivo interface. I would think that if both comcast and cox have tivo, time warner wouldn't be far behind. Here's to hoping!!!

ZeoTiVo · 08-25-2006, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnd7

“More and more people choose digital cable because you have to have it to have a digital video recorder,” he said.

Ironic that I have a DT TiVo because I did not want to pay for digital cable.
Maybe the DT TiVo was more of a strategic move than we thought.

johnd7 · 08-25-2006, 10:43 AM

This is going to make me hold off on being an early S3 adopter and put up with my Cox HD DVR for the next year or so to see if this becomes available in San Diego. Although the article did not mention if it would be HD DVR??

Jaysv · 08-25-2006, 11:01 AM

Naturally since Cox just sold my market to Cebridge now Suddenlink.

dt_dc · 08-25-2006, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnd7

This is going to make me hold off on being an early S3 adopter and put up with my Cox HD DVR for the next year or so to see if this becomes available in San Diego.

Cox San Diego uses Scientific Atlanta equipment ... the early Cox Tivo deployments are most likely going to be in markets with Motorola equipment ...

so ...

I wouldn't bet on Tivo being available for you from Cox in 2007. Maybe 2008 ...

johnd7 · 08-25-2006, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dt_dc

Cox San Diego uses Scientific Atlanta equipment ... the early Cox Tivo deployments are most likely going to be in markets with Motorola equipment ...

so ...

I wouldn't bet on Tivo being available for you from Cox in 2007. Maybe 2008 ...

That may well be, but its pure speculation, the article does not say anything about that. In fact they say that "Cox customers will not have to switch out their current boxes because TiVo will download its software to the current Cox DVR set-top boxes."

My point is that this makes it worth waiting a year, in which time I am sure we will know tons more about the Cox Tivo Service and how it is working and on what boxes etc.
Of course, the reports back from the S3 early adopters will also affect what I do.

classicX · 08-25-2006, 11:39 AM

What is the article about? I refuse to read such a long post.

Anyway, it sounds like good news for Tivo. Where does that leave us, the cable customers who have Scientific Atlanta DVRs? I think we'd eventually have to go trade our boxes for Motorolas, OR we could just get S3's, which will eventually have all of the Tivo "extras" that cable companies may not.

aztivo · 08-25-2006, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dt_dc

Cox San Diego uses Scientific Atlanta equipment ... the early Cox Tivo deployments are most likely going to be in markets with Motorola equipment ...

so ...

I wouldn't bet on Tivo being available for you from Cox in 2007. Maybe 2008 ...

where are you getting this information please post a link that says it will be in motorola box or Scientific boxes all I see is cox

Tico · 08-25-2006, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aztivo

where are you getting this information please post a link that says it will be in motorola box or Scientific boxes all I see is cox

There is no public link, However I work for Cox and it will only be Motorola boxes to start and maybe someday will be available for SA boxes...

Let's cross our fingers

dt_dc · 08-25-2006, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnd7

That may well be, but its pure speculation, the article does not say anything about that.

Sorry ... yes ... my post above is speculation (like this one on the Comcast deal was). I was going to note that ... but thought the 'most likely', 'wouldn't bet', and 'maybe' made that clear.

petew · 08-25-2006, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tico

There is no public link, However I work for Cox and it will only be Motorola boxes to start

This makes sense since the Comcast implementation is also on the Motorola Boxes.

classicX · 08-25-2006, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aztivo

where are you getting this information please post a link that says it will be in motorola box or Scientific boxes all I see is cox

This post will probably be deleted but

ROFL

ZeoTiVo · 08-25-2006, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnd7

That may well be, but its pure speculation, the article does not say anything about that. In fact they say that "Cox customers will not have to switch out their current boxes because TiVo will download its software to the current Cox DVR set-top boxes."

My point is that this makes it worth waiting a year, in which time I am sure we will know tons more about the Cox Tivo Service and how it is working and on what boxes etc.
Of course, the reports back from the S3 early adopters will also affect what I do.

- I have read a lot of DT-DC's posts and his "speculation" is pretty grounded in the reality/facts of the situation.

- as others made quick note of. The current TiVo port for Comcast is on Motoroalla boxes. No one has heard public mention of a TiVo port to a Scientific Atlantic box. If you expect to see TiVo on Cox equipment early next year it will need to be Motorolla as that port will be available.

Scientific Atlantic is not at all likely next year unless TiVo unwraps back room work - which is possible but unlikely since I think we would hear more about it in the press releases if TiVo thought they were clsoe. It seems much more likely they wrap up the major work on Motorolla and then have that team tackle Scientific Atlantic next - which will likely take a lot less time with the lessons learned from Motorolla port but still be 2008 before released

dt_dc · 08-29-2006, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dt_dc

the early Cox Tivo deployments are most likely going to be in markets with Motorola equipment

I dunno if this is a misprint or misinformation ... but ...

Quote:

Cox Joins Comcast in TiVo Guide Deal
(...)
Cox's digital set-top footprint is about 50/50 Motorola and Scientific Atlanta; SA's boxes are expected to lead the deployment.

http://www.cedmagazine.com/toc-xod/2006/20060829.html

I usually find CED Magazine 'reasonably' accurate ... but (obviously) given my comments above this would surprise me.

bkdtv · 08-29-2006, 12:36 PM

I would be very very surprised if that was true. I think CED got things mixed up.

It makes no sense, seeing how Comcast has been testing the Tivo software on the Motorola boxes for 6+ months, while they have not been testing on SA at all. I have not heard of trials for Tivo on SA anywhere.

Interesting that they quote a 50/50 mix for SA and Motorola boxes. As of the end of last year, it was closer to 60/40.

dt_dc · 08-29-2006, 12:38 PM

BTW, Tivo's SEC filing on the Cox deal is up ...

http://investor.tivo.com/EdgarDetail...0091&SID=06-00

Nothing I find too much of interest except:

Quote:

Cox will also pay us commissions on certain new subscribers who use the TiVo service as offered by Cox.

Not sure if that was part of the Comcast deal ... Tivo getting more for new subs who switch to Cox and sign up for the Tivo service.

bkdtv · 08-29-2006, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Cox has the right to terminate the agreement in the event we are the subject of certain change of control transactions involving any of certain specified companies.

davezatz · 08-29-2006, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dt_dc

Nothing I find too much of interest except:Not sure if that was part of the Comcast deal ... Tivo getting more for new subs who switch to Cox and sign up for the Tivo service.

I'm not sure either... I don't recall that, but I could have missed it and/or it wasn't documented. I seem to recall with Comcast they were getting development money up front or ongoing and then were going to use a similar model to DTV: a little money per subscriber. Does someone have a better memory than me (or want to look it up)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkdtv

Cox has the right to terminate the agreement in the event we are the subject of certain change of control transactions involving any of certain specified companies.

Wonder what those specified companies are? Comcast, DTV?

ZeoTiVo · 08-29-2006, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dt_dc

I dunno if this is a misprint or misinformation ... but ...I usually find CED Magazine 'reasonably' accurate ... but (obviously) given my comments above this would surprise me.

they also kept using the term TiVo guide data and navigational system. It did not sound like it was written by someone to whom technical innacuracy would jump out. Might just be parroting something else.

Oh well guess now we just have to say we do not know. I just can not fathom why TiVo would not be making a bigger deal out of having a port to both Motorolla and SA.

petew · 08-29-2006, 01:15 PM

The article also states:

Quote:

Meanwhile, over at Comcast, which is about 90 percent Motorola, work continues to get the TiVo system ready for widespread deployment, probably sometime in '07.

I thought the Comcast Tivo was planned for 2nd Half '06 right around the same time as S3.

BrandonRe · 08-29-2006, 01:42 PM

Does anyone know if the CoxTivo units will have network capabilities? My surrent Tivo does, and it would be nice to have this feature if I upgrade my Cox service to the Tivo unit.

ZeoTiVo · 08-29-2006, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrandonRe

Does anyone know if the CoxTivo units will have network capabilities? My surrent Tivo does, and it would be nice to have this feature if I upgrade my Cox service to the Tivo unit.

that is a big question for the Cable Company DVRs. First off - all features are controlled by the cable provider not TiVo. Second the hardware ahs to support it in some way of course. USB or ethernet.
I think it highly doubtful that the cable providers will wnat some way for shows to get off the box. HME apps might be a draw but they might work out a way to send that via the cable.

All in all I speculate the cable company DVRs will not be as feature rich as a Stand Alone box. I for one make heavy use of MRV and TiVoToGo so would not want to give those two things up - they are worth the price of buying my own DVR.

jfh3 · 08-29-2006, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrandonRe

Does anyone know if the CoxTivo units will have network capabilities? My surrent Tivo does, and it would be nice to have this feature if I upgrade my Cox service to the Tivo unit.

We don't even know what features the Comcast software will have and we've known about that for a year and a half.

megazone · 08-29-2006, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petew

The article also states: I thought the Comcast Tivo was planned for 2nd Half '06 right around the same time as S3.

So far all the stated info is that the ComcasTiVo will be out in late 2006.

dt_dc · 08-30-2006, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megazone

So far all the stated info is that the ComcasTiVo will be out in late 2006.

"Out", "available", whatever ... yes.

However, the article says "widespread deployment". Which, quite frankly, the way cable moves ... for something to reach "widespread deployment" in 2007 it should have been out and available in test markets in 2005 ...

petew · 08-30-2006, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dt_dc

"Which, quite frankly, the way cable moves ... for something to reach "widespread deployment" in 2007 it should have been out and available in test markets in 2005 ...

However unlike most cable products the Comcast Tivo is rumored to be a software download to the existing box so widespread deployment could be done in a month or two.

The different terms would also explain why the 2006 date has suddenly become early 2007. We may still see test deployments in the next month or two.

megazone · 08-30-2006, 06:45 PM

Well, from their con call today, Comcast is looking at field trials 'by the end of 2006' and 'widespread deployment in early 2007'.

Icefluxx · 09-04-2006, 01:51 AM

Hello all.
Ok, now ive played around with dvrs for pcs and such, but i just moved to San Diego, and lo and behold, i get cable and i find a harddrive in the box. Apparently you can record up to fifty hours of shows.

So, its a dvr. it came new with a new remote, coax cables, splitters from the ups man. I had to install it all myself.

Ive never been into tivo but im here cuz i was looking for ways to get shows off the cable hdd on to my pc but kept getting tivo refrences. So im not sure if this cox box is like a tivo, and should i use the tutorials here as id do with the cox dvr.

Anyhow, i thought id just post and tell u guys that yeah, Cox is doing it out here. And from what ive heard, my wifes cousin has had it for a while.