Manual Recordings Failing

[dnaman]

(Newbie Alert)

Philips HDR112.

I had set up some programs on "Manually record time/channel" to record a couple of programs regularly, M-F. This worked fine for a while (perhaps 2 weeks?) then it stopped recording the shows claiming it was "unable to record".

I've deleted all the programming and re-programmed and it seems to be working now and I'll see if it happens again. Meantime I wanted to check something:

I'm only using the TV as a glorified (and improved) VCR and I'm happy to program it manually. Because of this I don't have a TiVo account and don't have the phone line connected so that it can't make its regular call-home. Could this be what causes the programming to fail after a while? In other words, does it *need* to be allowed to make its regular call (even though there isn't a valid account)?

[JimSpence]

Check the recording history for more info on why it didn't record.

And, did you be any chance set those manual recordings to Keep Until You Delete?
Your hard drive may be full and unable to delete older shows if thay are set that way.

[Double-Tap]

Originally Posted by dnaman

(Newbie Alert)
Philips HDR112.
I'm only using the TV as a glorified (and improved) VCR and I'm happy to program it manually. Because of this I don't have a TiVo account and don't have the phone line connected so that it can't make its regular call-home. Could this be what causes the programming to fail after a while? In other words, does it *need* to be allowed to make its regular call (even though there isn't a valid account)?

How many hours can you record on your unit? Since you don't have an active account, I'd guess it would go through the normal routine of checking your account status, detect it as non-subscription and drop the line. I don't think a call would be productive without a subscription.

http://customersupport.tivo.com/know...ic/tv1218.htm?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=307044

[dnaman]

Originally Posted by JimSpence

Check the recording history for more info on why it didn't record.
And, did you be any chance set those manual recordings to Keep Until You Delete?
Your hard drive may be full and unable to delete older shows if thay are set that way.

All I could glean from the recording history was the standard screen saying "You don't have a valid account ...."

It's what made me question whether you need to let it call in occasionally

The HD is 160G (with the LBA48 Kernel) and I would have had at most about 10 hrs of saved programs on it. I did get a funny waring message when I did the LBA48 Kernel bit though (can't remember now what it said). After that though, it reported that it was done OK so I went ahead. Wonder if it's really seeing the whole drive.

[JimSpence]

What does the system info screen list for the number of hours available?

Also, did you have the recordings set to Keep Until You Delete?

You might want to redo the 160GB upgrade.

[wscannell]

What version is the software on the unit. 3.0 is the latest. When the unit calls in, it will synchronize the clock as the clocks do drift over time.

[mick66]

Originally Posted by dnaman

All I could glean from the recording history was the standard screen saying "You don't have a valid account ...."

The recording history is found at the top of the 'To Do List' screen and would not have any account information listed. It lists what didn't record and why, what won't record and why, and what's been deleted and when.

[dnaman]

Originally Posted by JimSpence

What does the system info screen list for the number of hours available?

Also, did you have the recordings set to Keep Until You Delete?

You might want to redo the 160GB upgrade.

- Hrs available: 54h 33m (best) ; 198h 30m (basic). I'm using medium quality.

- Yes, I have recordings set to Keep Until You Delete

I've deleted and re-set all the manual programs and I'm following it to see if it happens again. If it doesn't work this time, I intend to do as you suggest i.e. re-do the 160GB upgrade from scratch. This time though, I won't do the lba48 kernel replacement (at least not initially) .... it isn't buying me a great deal of room anyway.

[dnaman]

Originally Posted by wscannell

What version is the software on the unit. 3.0 is the latest. When the unit calls in, it will synchronize the clock as the clocks do drift over time.

Software is V 3.0

Useful to know about the clock sync although that wouldn't appear to be the problem in this case would it? It would just make the start/end times of the programs drift I would think.

[dnaman]

Originally Posted by mick66

The recording history is found at the top of the 'To Do List' screen and would not have any account information listed. It lists what didn't record and why, what won't record and why, and what's been deleted and when.

I might not have been too clear before.

I did look at the "Recording History" screen which told me that various recordings couldn't record. When I select one to determine the reason, I simply get a standard screen telling me that I don't have an active account and then some standard troubleshooting info such as: check that the phone line is connected;check that the cable is connected etc.

Nothing that seems to relate or tell me why it initially worked but then stopped (for all recordings).

[JimSpence]

Originally Posted by dnaman

- Hrs available: 54h 33m (best) ; 198h 30m (basic). I'm using medium quality.

- Yes, I have recordings set to Keep Until You Delete

I've deleted and re-set all the manual programs and I'm following it to see if it happens again. If it doesn't work this time, I intend to do as you suggest i.e. re-do the 160GB upgrade from scratch. This time though, I won't do the lba48 kernel replacement (at least not initially) .... it isn't buying me a great deal of room anyway.

With everything set as "Keep Until You Delete" the hard drive will fill up and the unit won't record anything else until you delete something.

[wscannell]

Originally Posted by dnaman

Useful to know about the clock sync although that wouldn't appear to be the problem in this case would it?

It is not the problem in this case, although you did ask whether the unit "needed" to call in. This was in answer to that question.

[wscannell]

It appears that your system has the right amount of recording space available. When you set thing to "save until I delete", the amount of available recording space tends to fill up faster than you might think. Your version of software should have no problems with manual recording. It is possible that the system had no more space left to record programs until you deleted the programming and entered new manual recordings.

[dnaman]

Originally Posted by JimSpence

With everything set as "Keep Until You Delete" the hard drive will fill up and the unit won't record anything else until you delete something.

Yes, I understand that, but as I said above, I had at most 10 hrs of programs saved:

(2 x 1/2-hr shows per day M-F for 2 weeks since original setup medium quality ... in fact I had viewed several of those and deleted them afterwards so that I had maybe 7 half-hour shows stored.

[dnaman]

Originally Posted by wscannell

It is not the problem in this case, although you did ask whether the unit "needed" to call in. This was in answer to that question.

Absolutely: I understood that and I do appreciate the response.

[dnaman]

Originally Posted by wscannell

It appears that your system has the right amount of recording space available. When you set thing to "save until I delete", the amount of available recording space tends to fill up faster than you might think. Your version of software should have no problems with manual recording. It is possible that the system had no more space left to record programs until you deleted the programming and entered new manual recordings.

See my response to Jim above.

[murgatroyd]

Double-check your manual recording.

What does the "Keep At Most" setting say?

If your manual recording is set to "Save Until I Delete" AND your "Keep at Most" setting is set to a specific number of episodes, then your TiVo won't record any more after it reaches your limit. You can either delete a recording (in which case it will record one more and then stop), or change your KAM to "All Episodes" (in which case it should record until you run out of space on the hard disk).

Hope this helps.

Jan

[dnaman]

Originally Posted by murgatroyd

Double-check your manual recording.

What does the "Keep At Most" setting say?

If your manual recording is set to "Save Until I Delete" AND your "Keep at Most" setting is set to a specific number of episodes, then your TiVo won't record any more after it reaches your limit. You can either delete a recording (in which case it will record one more and then stop), or change your KAM to "All Episodes" (in which case it should record until you run out of space on the hard disk).

Hope this helps.

Jan

This is interesting - and I think probably helps quite a lot.

I can't find a "Keep At Most" setting but I can find a "Keep At Least". Is this what you are referring to?

My manual recording is set to "Save Until I Delete" and my KAL is set to "Until Space Needed".

Now .... the interesting thing is that when I check the To-Do list, a recording set for Monday 17 July 2006 says it will be deleted on Wednesday 19 July 2006 !!
Something seriously screwy here .... unless, notwithstanding the reported disk space, the space on the drive actually appears very small. and it calculates that "Space Needed" will occur in 2 days.

I'm more and more inclined to think that the LBA48 update didn't work properly and that I should redo the whole drive from scratch (without the LBA48).

Before I do that, perhaps you could let me know if the "Keep At Least" setting that I found was what you meant by "Keep At Most".

[wscannell]

The "Keep at Most" option may have been added in a later version so you may not have it.
All recordings by default become candidates for deletion in 2 days. This does not mean that they will be deleted. It only means that they will be deleted when space is needed to record something else.

[murgatroyd]

Originally Posted by wscannell

The "Keep at Most" option may have been added in a later version so you may not have it.

Good point -- but the OP said above (post #9) that he has 3.0, so he should have a KAM option. He needs to go into the screen where you edit the Season Pass to see it. I don't think the 'change recording options' on an individual episode in the To Do list will show him that -- the options shown there will be the ones which apply to that individual episode.

Originally Posted by wscannell

All recordings by default become candidates for deletion in 2 days. This does not mean that they will be deleted. It only means that they will be deleted when space is needed to record something else.

Clarification: all recordings that were recorded at 'until space needed' expire in 2 days.

dnaman, when I go into my To Do List and look at my Manual Recordings and say "Change Recording Options" on one of the recordings, this is what I see:

• Record manual recording with these options
• Record Quality: (choices are Best/High/Medium/Basic)
• Keep at Most: (choices are 1/2/3/4/5/all episodes)
• Keep Until: (choices are space needed / until I delete) [default for 'space needed is 2 days]
• Start Recording: (On-time/1/2/3/4/5/10 minutes early)
• Stop Recording: (On-time/1/2/5/15/30minutes/1 hr/1.5 hrs/3 hrs longer)
• Don't change recording options

Hope this helps.

Jan

[murgatroyd]

So, what happened? Was the KAM setting the problem, or not?

Jan

[dnaman]

Originally Posted by murgatroyd

Clarification: all recordings that were recorded at 'until space needed' expire in 2 days.

I must be a bit thick because this is confusing me more . What does "expire in two days mean? They are deleted?
I interpreted 'until space needed' to mean that when the HD fills up (or gets close) the earliest recordings would be deleted at that point on an as needed basis to make more room. Which, given the size of the drive and my limited programming up to now, shouldn't have been a problem for a long time.

Originally Posted by murgatroyd

dnaman, when I go into my To Do List and look at my Manual Recordings and say "Change Recording Options" on one of the recordings, this is what I see:

• Record manual recording with these options
• Record Quality: (choices are Best/High/Medium/Basic)
• Keep at Most: (choices are 1/2/3/4/5/all episodes)
• Keep Until: (choices are space needed / until I delete) [default for 'space needed is 2 days]
• Start Recording: (On-time/1/2/3/4/5/10 minutes early)
• Stop Recording: (On-time/1/2/5/15/30minutes/1 hr/1.5 hrs/3 hrs longer)
• Don't change recording options

Jan

My software version (System Information > Messages and Setup) is listed as 3.0-01-1-000.

My To Do List > Manual Recordings > "Change Recording Options" is a bit different from yours:

• Record manual recording with these options
• Record Quality: (choices are Best/High/Medium/Basic)
• Keep at least: (choices are until space needed/1/2/3/4/5/6/7/until I delete)
• Start Recording: (On-time/1/2/3/4/5/10 minutes early)
• Stop Recording: (On-time/1/2/5/15/30minutes/1 hr/1.5 hrs/3 hrs longer)
• Don't change recording options

I don't have "Keep at Most" or "Keep Until" but instead have "Keep at Least" which seems to be a sort of combination of the two.

Right now I have it set to "until space needed" and so far no problem (but it's been only a few days since I wiped all the programming a set it up anew). As far as I know, this is the setting I was using when I had the original problem (not 100% sure)

[murgatroyd]

Originally Posted by dnaman

I must be a bit thick because this is confusing me more . What does "expire in two days mean? They are deleted?
I interpreted 'until space needed' to mean that when the HD fills up (or gets close) the earliest recordings would be deleted at that point on an as needed basis to make more room. Which, given the size of the drive and my limited programming up to now, shouldn't have been a problem for a long time.

The default time to keep a recording is 2 days, unless you tell TiVo otherwise. Season Passes set to 'until space needed' will set a 'keep until' date/time which is 2 days later. Unless you change it to be saved longer, after 24 hours the episode will show a yellow dot next to it, which means it is due to expire soon. After the expiration time has passed, it will show a yellow dot with an exclamation point inside.

The exclamation point means that the show CAN be deleted at any time if your TiVo needs the space. It will not actually delete a show until it does need the space. If I recall correctly, if you have a bunch of expired shows, they will be deleted in the order they were recorded.

Is that a little more clear?

My software version (System Information > Messages and Setup) is listed as 3.0-01-1-000.

That's the same as both my Sony and Philips S1 TiVos.

My To Do List > Manual Recordings > "Change Recording Options" is a bit different from yours:

• Record manual recording with these options
• Record Quality: (choices are Best/High/Medium/Basic)
• Keep at least: (choices are until space needed/1/2/3/4/5/6/7/until I delete)
• Start Recording: (On-time/1/2/3/4/5/10 minutes early)
• Stop Recording: (On-time/1/2/5/15/30minutes/1 hr/1.5 hrs/3 hrs longer)
• Don't change recording options

I don't have "Keep at Most" or "Keep Until" but instead have "Keep at Least" which seems to be a sort of combination of the two.

Right now I have it set to "until space needed" and so far no problem (but it's been only a few days since I wiped all the programming a set it up anew). As far as I know, this is the setting I was using when I had the original problem (not 100% sure)

You are looking in the wrong place. Maybe you don't have access to the menu I am talking about.

I just set up a repeating manual recording on my Philips to double-check things. Go to your To Do list and look at your manual recordings.

On the main program screen that says Manual: <show title> (which will probably say something else for you, since you have no Guide Data), I see three options:

• Record as Planned > Options
• Cancel only this Recording
• Cancel/edit manual Season Pass

Keep At Least (with the choices you describe) is in the menu underneath 'Record as planned / Options' and applies to an individual recording.

Keep at Most and Keep Until refer to ALL the recordings in a Season Pass or repeationg manual recordings. They in the list that you get if you go to "Cancel/Edit the Manual Recording" and select "Change Recording Options"

If you can't set a repeating manual recording, then I suppose KAM won't come into play -- unless there is some inherent maximum number of recordings which I am unaware of.

As I may have mentioned before, I used to run my Philips unsubbed, but it has been a couple of years now since I did that. So I don't recall which options were missing back then.

Sorry for the confusion.

Jan

[MungoJerrie]

My understanding is that an unsubbed S1 tivo after some period of time of not phoning home successfully will go into "boat anchor" mode whereby "Season Pass" (i.e., manual recurring recordings) will no longer function. You can try to either make a call, or rerun guided setup (which makes a call) although I am not sure this will undo boat anchor mode. Or you can find a way to fake tivo into thinking it made a call (hint, hint); of course your tivo needs to be hacked first...

[Colbyt]

Originally Posted by dnaman

Right now I have it set to "until space needed" and so far no problem (but it's been only a few days since I wiped all the programming a set it up anew). As far as I know, this is the setting I was using when I had the original problem (not 100% sure)

Please be sure to follow up and let us know how this turns out.

[dnaman]

Originally Posted by murgatroyd

The default time to keep a recording is 2 days, unless you tell TiVo otherwise. Season Passes set to 'until space needed' will set a 'keep until' date/time which is 2 days later. Unless you change it to be saved longer, after 24 hours the episode will show a yellow dot next to it, which means it is due to expire soon. After the expiration time has passed, it will show a yellow dot with an exclamation point inside.

The exclamation point means that the show CAN be deleted at any time if your TiVo needs the space. It will not actually delete a show until it does need the space. If I recall correctly, if you have a bunch of expired shows, they will be deleted in the order they were recorded.

Is that a little more clear?

Absolutely! Thanks.

You are looking in the wrong place. Maybe you don't have access to the menu I am talking about.
.....
On the main program screen that says Manual: <show title> (which will probably say something else for you, since you have no Guide Data), I see three options:

• Record as Planned > Options
• Cancel only this Recording
• Cancel/edit manual Season Pass

Keep At Least (with the choices you describe) is in the menu underneath 'Record as planned / Options' and applies to an individual recording.

Keep at Most and Keep Until refer to ALL the recordings in a Season Pass or repeationg manual recordings. They in the list that you get if you go to "Cancel/Edit the Manual Recording" and select "Change Recording Options"

OK, now I've found it .... exactly as you say. I was looking in the wrong place.

My KAM is set at "All Episodes" for one repeating-manual-recording and 5-Episodes for the other (I would have changed the latter to "All" but when I try to do that, it says today's program will not record because it overlaps something in the same timeslot - don't understand this)

My KU is set to "Space Needed" for both repeating-manual-recordings

So far, everything has happened normally. I'll see what happens when I've gone two weeks from when I re-programmed everything (that was about the time it all went flakey before)

Sorry for the confusion.
Jan

Not at all. I'm sure any confusion was mostly my fault for not looking deeply enough. And I do appreciate the help.

[dnaman]

Just as an addendum .... after I had redone all the program scheduling it seemed to work OK for a few days but then I began to find that recorded programs were overlapping previously deleted recordings. That is, the first twenty minutes would be the intended program but the last ten minutes would suddenly change to another program that I had deleted before.

It looks like something is wrong with the filespace allocation on the HD and I think the logical suspicion is that the LBA48 update didn't work properly (I was a bit doubtful at the time - see my earlier post).

So, I've wiped the whole HD and re-installed the standard system (without LBA48) and so far (1 week) it looks OK. We'll see.

[Colbyt]

Originally Posted by dnaman

Just as an addendum ....
So, I've wiped the whole HD and re-installed the standard system (without LBA48) and so far (1 week) it looks OK. We'll see.

I went through the same problem with a series 1 Sony. I decided it was not worth the hassle for the extra 23G of space.

I made a new bak image booted with the boot floppy, non LBA and restored the image to the new drive. I haven't had any problems yet. Been working fine sine 7/21.

The drive should fill up some time this week and we will see how it goes from there.