Why can't I record two shows at once?

annenoe · 07-12-2006, 06:04 PM

From the FAQ

"DirecTV HD TiVos contain 2 DirecTV SD/HD/OTA tuners (a total of 3 coax inputs) which can receive/record standard definition and high definition programming from DirecTV as well as local digital/HDTV broadcasts brought in by an antenna. 2 tuners means 2 different shows can be recorded simultaneously."

If I have the OTA coax connected to the antenna in input, and the coax from the satellite connected to the satellite in input, why can't I record two shows simultaneously?

The manual says "Your HD DVR will work if you connect only one cable to the "Satellite In 1" jack [my setup], but it will not have dual tuner functionality. See page 6...."

Page 6 says "...Dual tuner means your HD DVR can pick two channels at once, so it can record two channels at the same time, provided you connect two cables from your satellite dish to the "Satellite In" jacks, and activate the DVR service. if you set up the HD DVR for "Off-air antenna only", you can watch, but not record, two antenna channels" etc.

So, it would appear that the dual tuner only is only applicable to two satellite channels, not 1 satellite, 1 OTA? What am I missing here? If true, is the FAQ misleading (well, I should say that *I* read it wrong and thought I would get dual tuner capability with one OTA and one satellite).

Oh yeah, could you answer like you were explaining to your 10-year-old daughter? I'm a bit challenged by some of the witty repartee on this forum ;-)

confused

rminsk · 07-12-2006, 06:11 PM

The tuners in the HR10-250 are hybrid ATSC/satellite tuners. In order for the ATSC side of the tuner to work a satellite cable must. In order to record two shows at once, even OTA, both satellite cables must be connected.

newsposter · 07-12-2006, 06:14 PM

that's very interesting.....i didn't know that. I know about the 2 tuners but not that you can't use the 2nd without the sat cable

alexwt · 07-12-2006, 06:25 PM

You might want to do a search on this topic, there was quite a bit of discussion when the HR10-250 first came out.

But my recollection is that the unit is just not smart enough. Although it seems like you have 4 tuners (two OTA/two satellite), as noted above, you really only have two. The box doesn't have the programming to know that it should only record satellite shows on 'Tuner A' and OTA on 'Tuner B'. So they just disable Tuner B if you don't have two lines running from your dish into the back.

Plus once you do have both lines hooked up you notice that you can switch between tuners on the fly. If you did this with only one satellite connection the box would have to have two lists of Channels you receive/two different Guides that pop up, etc. So in order to simplify the experience, they simplified the capabilities.

I hope that makes some sense.

annenoe · 07-12-2006, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rminsk

The tuners in the HR10-250 are hybrid ATSC/satellite tuners. In order for the ATSC side of the tuner to work a satellite cable must. In order to record two shows at once, even OTA, both satellite cables must be connected.

let me get this straight, if I had both satellite cables plugged in, along with OTA, I'd have dual tuner. But with 1 OTA and 1 satellite, I don't. Excuse me if I go "huh"?????

But no worries, I already knew I couldn't, but was just reading thru the FAQs and wanted to make sure I wasn't doing anything wrong. But should probably modify that FAQ. I'll post something over there.

thanks for the info.

rminsk · 07-12-2006, 06:43 PM

With all three lines plugged in you will be able to record two things at once. 2 satellites, 2 OTA, or 1 satellite and 1 OTA.

Mark Lopez · 07-12-2006, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by annenoe

let me get this straight, if I had both satellite cables plugged in, along with OTA, I'd have dual tuner. But with 1 OTA and 1 satellite, I don't. Excuse me if I go "huh"?????

Correct. It's my understanding that the system is basically a satellite 'only' recorder and the the OTA tuners are 'faked' in the software to mimic a sat tuner. So if only one sat tuner is enabled, you can only record one thing - either sat or OTA. Enable both sat tuners and you can have any two combinations.

mr.unnatural · 07-12-2006, 07:12 PM

Think of the two sets of tuners as matched pairs, each tied to an A/B switch. You have a satellite tuner and an ATSC tuner paired for input A and another set paired for input B. The Tivo knows that it can only record from one signal from input A and one from input B input at any given time time. How you configured the HDTivo during guided setup tells the Tivo if you have one or two cables connected to inputs A and B. The channel you select determines whether you're recording from the satellite or OTA input via the A/B switch. It's got nothing to do with how smart the Tivo is but how the signal path is configured internally.

newsposter · 07-13-2006, 06:31 AM

how about splitting the OTA and piping one into the sat? would that work for them?

mr.unnatural · 07-13-2006, 07:15 AM

Quote:

how about splitting the OTA and piping one into the sat? would that work for them?

Not at all. You'd never be able to get the unit to pass guided setup, not to mention that you would constantly get the "Searching for satellite signal" nag message. OTA and satellite digital transmissions are two completely different animals, hence the need for four separate tuners.

newsposter · 07-13-2006, 08:29 AM

how about splitting the sat feed? in theory there wouldnt be a conflict with the polarities since tuner 2 would only be needing OTA

just throwing things out..feel free to shoot them down

SleepyBob · 07-13-2006, 08:37 AM

But when it goes to record a sat show, you have no idea if it will go to tuner 1 or 2 to record. And once tuner 1 is on a sat channel and tuner 2 tries to switch to a sat channel....

It would work to some degree, but I would bet you would have issues with recordings on occasion. I'm not sure if both sides of the split sending voltage back up to your dish could potentially fry things.

Jonathan_S · 07-13-2006, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleepyBob

But when it goes to record a sat show, you have no idea if it will go to tuner 1 or 2 to record. And once tuner 1 is on a sat channel and tuner 2 tries to switch to a sat channel....

Exactly. The HD TiVo assumes that the tuners are symmetrical. So it has no preference for using tuner 1 for sat. It assumes that if you configured it for dual tuners that it can use either tuner for sat or OTA at any time.

JimSpence · 07-13-2006, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newsposter

how about splitting the sat feed? in theory there wouldnt be a conflict with the polarities since tuner 2 would only be needing OTA

just throwing things out..feel free to shoot them down

Come on newsposter, you know better than that!

I know what you are trying there is to fake out the receiver, but you could damage the polarity switching circuitry by doing that.

I suppose you could use a DC block on one input but the receiver would then try to record on two different sat channels and the user would miss something. Just run the proper second satellite cable.

annenoe · 07-13-2006, 12:23 PM

Actually, we do have two sat feeds coming into the LR. I hook one of them up to our Series 2 updgraded tivo - since it has the biggest drive, we record the bulk of stuff to that. I only use the HR10-250 to watch/record HD stuff off OTA, or as our second viewing option (so if Series 2 tivo is recording, we can switch to the HR10-250 to watch HD). IOW, we have 2 DTV receivers in the LR setup so we dual tuners in effect anyway.

But it's good to know b/c at some point, we might move the Series 2 into another room, at which point I'd hook both sat feeds to the HR10-250.

newsposter · 07-13-2006, 12:47 PM

yes I know better but i was hoping that someone knew BETTER than me and could correct me and make it work for her

heck i'll make a trip out there and hook up the 2nd sat line myself as penance

cheer · 07-13-2006, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by annenoe

Actually, we do have two sat feeds coming into the LR. I hook one of them up to our Series 2 updgraded tivo - since it has the biggest drive, we record the bulk of stuff to that. I only use the HR10-250 to watch/record HD stuff off OTA, or as our second viewing option (so if Series 2 tivo is recording, we can switch to the HR10-250 to watch HD). IOW, we have 2 DTV receivers in the LR setup so we dual tuners in effect anyway.

But it's good to know b/c at some point, we might move the Series 2 into another room, at which point I'd hook both sat feeds to the HR10-250.

Are you using a multiswitch or just the feeds directly from a Phase III oval dish, or...? You might be able to just plop a cascadable multiswitch in there to get the feeds you need.

Jonathan_S · 07-13-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheer

Are you using a multiswitch or just the feeds directly from a Phase III oval dish, or...? You might be able to just plop a cascadable multiswitch in there to get the feeds you need.

I though HD channels were on 110 or 119, not on the main 101 satellite?
With only two lines you can only hook up a 3x4 multiswitch and that will only get you the 101 satellite. (Well you could hook up a 5x8 multiswitch, but you'd only be able to hook up two of the inputs so at best it would function like a 3x8)

ssandhoops · 07-13-2006, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rminsk

The tuners in the HR10-250 are hybrid ATSC/satellite tuners. In order for the ATSC side of the tuner to work a satellite cable must. In order to record two shows at once, even OTA, both satellite cables must be connected.

I believe this only applies to activating the 2nd tuner. Once it's activated, you could leave the sat 2 input un-connected and you would be able to record satellite on sat 1 and OTA on the second tuner. I know that's true because I've done it many times. You wouldn't want to leave it that way because you can not guarentee that tuner 1 is used when tuning to or recording a satellite channel. If left like this, anytime tuner 2 is tuned to a satellite channel, you'd get the "can't find satellite" message on the screen.

flnsx · 07-13-2006, 06:30 PM

Why can' we record 3 or even 4 things at once?

One for each tuner?

Somtimes I want to record three things at once and it won't let me EVEN if two are DTV and one is over the air. Why?!

cheer · 07-13-2006, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flnsx

Why can' we record 3 or even 4 things at once?

One for each tuner?

Somtimes I want to record three things at once and it won't let me EVEN if two are DTV and one is over the air. Why?!

Because the box only has two actual tuners. The tuners can interface to either sat or OTA, but there's really only two.

newsposter · 07-13-2006, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flnsx

Why can' we record 3 or even 4 things at once?

!

wonderful explanation here

http://archive2.tivocommunity.com/ti...d.php?t=259440

Adam1115 · 07-13-2006, 09:06 PM

There IS an exception to this rule!!

You CAN record two OTA things at once with only one satellite cable attached. Just lie to the unit and TELL it that it has two. The down side is you WILL lose satellite recordings because the unit trys to use both tuners. (And it doesn't do it in order, so even if there isn't a conflict, it will try to use the second tuner.)

BUT: There is a scenario that this works GREAT! You set ONLY OTA HD in your channels you receive. (OR only record OTA HD and manually tune satellite). You will always be able to record two OTA at once with no problems with 1 sat cable connected.

mr.unnatural · 07-14-2006, 07:01 AM

I'm sure that would work just fine but you'll still have to deal with the constant "Searching for satellite signal" nag mesage. At some point you'd have to connect the sat feeds just to run guided setup for the 2nd OTA tuner. You'd also need at least one sat line connected to get the guide data (I believe it usually comes in through the Sat 1 input).

Adam1115 · 07-14-2006, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.unnatural

I'm sure that would work just fine but you'll still have to deal with the constant "Searching for satellite signal" nag mesage. At some point you'd have to connect the sat feeds just to run guided setup for the 2nd OTA tuner. You'd also need at least one sat line connected to get the guide data (I believe it usually comes in through the Sat 1 input).

Yes, 1 sat is necessary. You will get nags. Never need sat 2 for guided setup, it will skip past it. (I was doing this for quite awhile..)