TiVo and DIRECTV Agree to Extend Relationship for Three Years

[blindlemon]

See here

IMHO this is excellent news for TiVo and bodes well for TiVo UK. If the Echostar lawsuit succeeds that will be big boost to their coffers, a serious blow to Murdoch, and, hopefully will embolden them to press ahead with a re-entry to the UK ASAP

It might even presage the introduction of "Sky+TiVo"...

[iankb]

They appear to have agreed to continue the service for existing users, but not to sell any new units. They're just protecting the income from the satellite service where, otherwise, they could lose users to cable.

This is no different to them continuing the service in this country. Hardly a positive move.

[blindlemon]

Ahh, but what I was thinking was that this could be a sign that DirecTV/NDS are running scared of the result of the Echostar patent case.

If TiVo wins that, then it has effectively set a precedent to assert its IPR over any DVR solutions (probably including the NDS box & Sky+) that also use a "mediaswitch". That could lead to DirecTV dropping the NDS replacement for TiVo altogether, and TiVo being able to demand an agreement with Sky UK to license their software for Sky+.

Just a thought....

[Milhouse]

Having a company (TiVo) that stopped inovating years ago in charge of key IP is not something that strikes me as a positive thing for consumers or the future of DVRs in general - for a number of reasons I hope TiVo lose the patent lawsuits, as their success will restrict DVR functionality that you and I could otherwise enjoy in markets where TiVo has no desire or appetite to enter.

[iankb]

Yes. Let's leave innovation in the hands of monopolies such as Sky, who think that they build a PVR based upon an archaic EPG, with no persistence of data that can withstand a powercut, or for a series that doesn't have an episode in the current EPG data, that doesn't allow alternate hardware to access their services directly, and can start requesting pin numbers when recording films so that competitive PVRs can no longer record.

[blindlemon]

Don't forget the excellent innovation that means you can't watch a pre-recorded programme on Sky+ if the satellite signal NOW is disturbed due to bad weather!

That's a real stroke of genius, IMHO

[blindlemon]

Originally Posted by Milhouse

Having a company (TiVo) that stopped inovating years ago

Sorry, you don't consider HMO, TiVo2Go, TiVo MultiRoom etc. etc. innovations?

Originally Posted by Milhouse

I hope TiVo lose the patent lawsuits, as their success will restrict DVR functionality that you and I could otherwise enjoy in markets where TiVo has no desire or appetite to enter.

And why does TiVo, apparently, have no desire to enter the UK market at the moment? It wouldn't be because it has been stitched up by Murdoch/NDS/Sky+ by any chance...?

This agreement with DirecTV/NDS in the US is clearly a sign that US companies are running scared of the outcome of the Echostar case. If TiVo wins and can assert it's IPR more forcefully then we may well see an opening for TiVo with Sky in the UK. Murdoch will always try to save/make as much money as possible in any market by any means. Up to now that that has meant dropping TiVo in favour of the cheaper in-house alternative (Sky+) regardless of how cr*p it is. In future, if it means dropping Sky+ in favour of TiVo to avoid a massive lawsuit payout, then I have no doubt that he won't think twice.

[pgogborn]

Originally Posted by blindlemon

Ahh, but what I was thinking was that this could be a sign that DirecTV/NDS are running scared of the result of the Echostar patent case.

It is widely reckoned DirecTV pay TiVo a $1 a month for each TiVo user - not much in my opinion.

The deal is about the support of existing customers, DirecTV has NOT agreed to continue marketing DirecTV TiVos.

If ageing DirecTV TiVos develop problems, DirecTV has made sure that TiVo will not be able to say "it is nothing to do with us, it is all DirecTVs fault, they stopped paying as money".

Rupert is smart enough to cooperate with innovators in the short term to learn as much as he can - as he did with TiVo in the UK. TiVo are being innovative in using PVRs for advertising and they are going to continue cooperating with Rupert in that specific area.

I do not think DirecTV has given up much but in return TiVo has undertaken not to pursue a patent case against DirecTV and they are going to give him a view behind the curtains on using PVRs as an advertising gateway.

The TiVo lamb laid down with the Sky lion in the UK and got eaten. I reckon the DirecTV lion will be just as hungry.

[blindlemon]

Well, TiVo won the patent case against Echostar

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060413/tivo_patent.html?.v=2

$73m damages - so who's going to tell me that's not good news...?

Edit: TiVo's comment (via PRNewsWire) on the win:-

"TiVo is pleased that the jury found that TiVo's pioneering time
warping patent is valid and that EchoStar has been infringing on our
intellectual property. TiVo is particularly gratified that the jury found
that EchoStar willfully infringed on our patent and the consequences their
actions had on our overall business. This decision recognizes that our
intellectual property is valuable and will ensure that moving forward
EchoStar and any others that want to use our patented technology will be
required to provide us with compensation.
TiVo intends to seek a permanent injunction against EchoStar's DVR
products.
TiVo is built on a strong foundation of innovative technology and
intellectual property. We now hold more than 87 patents in our worldwide
patent portfolio and have more than 138 patent applications pending. TiVo
has a long list of licensees in the consumer electronics, cable and
satellite markets, and we will continue to license our technology under
appropriate circumstances and arrangements. We will also continue to
vigorously defend our intellectual property for the benefit of our
licensees and shareholders."

[Milhouse]

Whoopee doo.

So can we expect new TiVo's in the UK any time soon? And if not, who really gives a rats behind about this judgement, which at the end of the day is chump change? Granted it may give TiVo carte blanche to prosecute anyone shipping a PVR/DVR, and may make Sky/NDS think twice before making their next marketing-driven decision - but are we any closer to getting a TiVo relaunch in the UK? Erm... No. So does anyone here really, honestly, care?

[blindlemon]

I think you are wrong.

This judgement will give TiVo management the confidence they need (along with a $73m windfall!) to push ahead aggressively with their expansion plans.

There is already evidence of an upcoming new twin-tuner Series 2 machine for the US market, probably based on the TGC Taiwanese model. This would seem a likely canditate on which to base a twin-tuner UK Freeview model too, so I reckon we will now see a new UK TiVo before the end of the year.

[Milhouse]

The judgement will more than likely go to appeal, and if overturned will leave TiVo with nothing (not even the patent, which is seperately being re-evaluated by the US Patent office). Also, Echostar have their own case against TiVo starting in 2007 - who knows how much they may win from TiVo?

This judegement may serve as nothing more than a temporary shot in the arm for TiVo before TiVo's IP world falls apart on appeal - I very much doubt TiVo will see any money from Echostar until after the appeal, and not ever if Echostar win their appeal.

Evidence of an upcoming new model in the US or China is not evidence of anything happening here, yet here is precisely where we will see a lack of inovation due to basic PVR/DVR patents owned by TiVo in the good ol' U S of A (for now, anyway).

If TiVo launch a new device in the UK, I'll probably buy it; if they don't, and they seek to stop other manufacturers from releasing potentially great PVR/DVR products then TiVo can go to hell.

[vidanon]

Looks Like Tivo Won case against Dish... About $70million... Tivo up about 21% in electronic trading....

hmmmm