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Old 07-14-2007, 01:51 PM   #61
pdhenry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlares
And regardless of what some "expert" has stated, if you truly remove the program, the hard drive IS cleaner. It's programs that have been moved to the "Recently Deleted" folder that are reall NOT removed, making the user THINK they were removed.
Define "truly remove" and "cleaner." I'm likely to suspect that you have no idea what you're talking about, particularly if you think it affects the operation or use of the TiVo one way or the other.
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Old 07-14-2007, 02:22 PM   #62
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A good example for wanting to clear the recently deleted items would be a situation where a wife/husband is secretly recording, watching, and deleting <insert whatever> shows and doesn't want her/his husband/wife to find out.

If my wife found out I was recording knitting and needlepoint shows she'd probably make me craft with her!
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:40 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by GoHokies!
Good suggestions, all of them. Have you gone to the link in my sig and told Tivo about them directly?

I've proposed something like that, and maybe if enough people actually suggest it directly to Tivo, they'd work on implementing it.
Thanks for the link.

I did make the three OTHER suggestions from my original post and I selected nine of their own options.

Interesting that there where no MRV suggestions in their options.
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Old 07-15-2007, 09:20 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdhenry
Define "truly remove" and "cleaner." I'm likely to suspect that you have no idea what you're talking about, particularly if you think it affects the operation or use of the TiVo one way or the other.

Funny, but okay, here is an explanation:

Going back to the 1980's, in DOS, when you deleted a file, the file allocation table (FAT) was updated to show the file was deleted. You could in fact, manipulate the FAT manually using a hex editor and unmark the file. Later came undelete utilities for the less computer savvy, so they could perform this without knowing much about computers. I used the same methods for hiding directories, before there were tools for doing this. You could recover your deleted file only if the space it occupied had not yet been overwritten.

Fast forward to today, where current operating systems are more forgiving and more friendly for the masses (less computer savvy). Contemporary operating systems now have a "Recycle Bin", which allows users to haphazzardly delete thier files and then undelete it when they realize what they did wrong. The difference between this and in the DOS days is you can retrieve your deleted file at almost any time, without having to catch it before its filespace is overwritten. Why, because it's not really deleted, it's only moved to a special folder - a folder called "Recycle Bin". It's only when you remove it from the recycle bin that the file is treated like in the DOS days. At that point, you can still undelete it with utilities, if the filespace has not yet been overwritten. (even then, there are tools that facilitate the knowledgeable to recover files that were delted, even when overwritten - it's the reason the government calls for sensitive data to be overwritten multiple times - you may have seen utilities, often called shredders, that facilitate ths.).

Such is the TiVo "Recently Deleted" folder. When you delete a program, you are just moving it to a special folder called "Recently Deleted", where it resides until either you or TiVo deletes it. You can delete these programs (stored as files on the hard drive) by individually selecting each one and deleting it. TiVo deletes them programmatically, as additional space is needed to record new shows when you are low on storage space. Until either you or TiVo deletes the program from the "Recently Deleted" folder, the file exists on the hard drive and the space it occupies on the hard drive cannot be written to.

When you delete all the probrams out of the "Recently Deleted" folder, you free up the physical space each of those files occupies so that when the hard drive stores your next program, there is more contiguous free space to store the file and the hard drive doesn't have to hunt for free space. This is really more a discussion to have face-to-face to properly convey, or requires a lot of typing. If you are really interested, Google on "defragment" or go to Wikipedia and look it up - you can find it under defragment. For that matter, you can also find out how hard drives work using the same methods. TiVo Community Forum doesn't allow embedded URLs (you would know them as links to other websites), or I would leave a few.

If you still don't believe it will help, then do some research on your own, figure out how computers work and make your own judgement. The TiVo is a computer that runs the Linux operating system. As such it is open source code. You can get a copy of the source code and pour over it yourself if you like.

This is really tiring and I really have far better things to do - I guess I was just caught up in the moment. I hope you figure it out for yourself. I will take one of the previous suggestions and I will submit the idea to TiVo myself.

Last edited by rlares : 07-15-2007 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 07-15-2007, 09:51 AM   #65
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Thanks for the 101. I have a masters in computer science -- how about you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlares
Until either you or TiVo deletes the program from the "Recently Deleted" folder, the file exists on the hard drive and the space it occupies on the hard drive cannot be written to.
Semantics. The file still "exists" on the hard drive after you manually delete it from RD, the same as before the RD folder was introduced. Even with the RD folder the space is available as soon as the TiVo needs it.

As I've said before, there is no user-discernable performance hit from having a full RD folder. As others have pointed out, fragmentation isn't an issue with the TiVo since it doesn't have all of the small files that can easily get scattered around like a general purpose OS would have.

Worst realistic case would be that the free space on the TiVo would be comprised of a number of segments a half hour, or even 5 to 15 minutes in length, if the shows most recently deleted are all TiVoCast programs (it doesn't happen often). Every few minutes (maybe even every few seconds, if you manually record commercials or something) the head has to relocate to a non-contiguous read location. But so what? The basic process of simultaneously writing a stream to one location while reading from another (which the TiVo does all the time except when in standby) is going to factor into the disk controller load significantly more than any large-file fragmentation.
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Old 12-17-2007, 09:14 AM   #66
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I have a series 3 to which I have attached the Tivo-supported external 500gb hard drive. Works wonderfully.

This is not a huge deal but I have noticed that sometimes my system will have 150 suggestions and 2 files in recently deleted. But lately I see that suggestions has maybe 100 and rd has 55. I really like suggestions so I would be concerned if suggestions weren't recorded in favor of building the rd folder. Yet that doesn't seem to be completely the case as I can see that there are newly recorded suggestions from the past 24 hours.

Is there something weird going on? As I said, not the end of the world but it does make me wonder just what is happening.
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Old 12-17-2007, 09:27 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by efilippi View Post
I have a series 3 to which I have attached the Tivo-supported external 500gb hard drive. Works wonderfully.

This is not a huge deal but I have noticed that sometimes my system will have 150 suggestions and 2 files in recently deleted. But lately I see that suggestions has maybe 100 and rd has 55. I really like suggestions so I would be concerned if suggestions weren't recorded in favor of building the rd folder. Yet that doesn't seem to be completely the case as I can see that there are newly recorded suggestions from the past 24 hours.

Is there something weird going on? As I said, not the end of the world but it does make me wonder just what is happening.
Other people have noticed a change in the number/kind of suggestions they are getting. I understand the Suggestions Engine has been modified. Maybe you should review the "thumbs up" you've given things to be sure TiVo has enough good examples of what you like.
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:00 AM   #68
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Did I disturb the gods? Yesterday I had approx 50 items in RD and 120 in Suggestions. This morning I have 1 in RD (last thing I watched last night) and 125 in Suggestions. That is more in line with what I would expect. Why it happened, however, is a mystery to me.
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Old 12-18-2007, 04:51 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by pdhenry View Post
One exception - shows in excess of the "keep at most" limit bypass the RD folder when they're removed from the Now Playing list. If I have a show at KAM=1, the old show disappears without a trace when the new one starts recording.
This isn't true on my S3 (that is; unless you're talking about a very new development that I haven't noticed.) If I have a Season Pass / Wishlist set to KAM = 3, for example, the old episodes show up in the Recently Deleted folder when TiVo makes room for the new recordings.
It's kind of cool, actually. If I get bored and my TiVo starts to run dry, I can go into my RD folder and find things that I haven't watched yet.
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Old 12-18-2007, 07:18 PM   #70
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Yeah, old post. Now I'm officially not sure. I have a few shows with KAM=1 and I never (just about never) see old ones in the RD folder. But I have seen the occasional overflow show in there. Not often enough to conclude that it's supposed to work that way.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:04 AM   #71
MagnusNY
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Originally Posted by johnk View Post
Hello,

My Tivo was updated with the new "Recently Deleted" (aka recycling bin) feature. Apparently it must hold references to previously deleted shows (before the feature was added), because it already shows 108 items in it!

Does anybody know if there is a way to empty the folder without deleting each item individually? Or does it even matter since stuff in that folder will automatically be deleted first to make room for new shows? I looked around and couldn't find any "empty recycling bin" type of option.

Thanks,
John
I agree - there should be a way to disable this feature so nothing gets moved to Recently Deleted. Just like you can disable Trashcan on both Windows and (a little more involved on) Mac. I like to have options; at least I am living in a country based upon freedom to choose...
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